Woman Ordered To Change Anti-Bush T-Shirt Before Sentencing

[OhioChick]

CLEVELAND -- A woman convicted of assaulting Cleveland Heights police officers appeared in court for sentencing Friday morning, but the sentencing was delayed when the judge said she must change her clothes, NewsChannel5 reported.

Carolyn Fisher was arrested in February when she was hanging up anti-President George W. Bush posters. Officers said the woman attacked them when they ordered her to take down the posters.

Fisher was convicted of two count of felony assault against a police officer. She and her supporters showed up for her sentencing wearing anti-Bush T-shirts, but the judge deemed the attire inappropriate.

Judge Timothy McGinty said he had no problem with people protesting the war or the president, but that the courtroom was not the place to express those views.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/9312729/detail.html

[asthmaticeog]

1. God damn, when fuck is enough going to be enough with McGinty?

Please tell me he's elected and not appointed - I'm ITCHING to vote against that piece of trash. :grr:

[saigon68]

29. He is scum

And so is this creature

[fshrink]

2. Everybody should ne naked in the Court room:

That would make trials really balanced.

[stop the bleeding]

12. it might make it difficult for some people to concentrate

but hell I'll try anything now.

[personman]

3. Unleash the ACLU...

Been waiting, this whole case has seemed like the kind of thing they would jump all over.

This "judge" Timothy McGinty sounds like a real piece of human garbage, surely that can't be legal?

-personman

Edit: I'm a civil libertarian and a PROUD card-carrying ACLU member. Join and donate to the ACLU! Help the REAL "Fight for Freedom."

[Demeter]

4. Why Would Police Order Someone To Take Down Political Posters?

Am I missing the point here somewhere, or is the Man?

[High Plains]

5. This whole case has been a disgrace from day one.

This 5'2", 100-lb. woman was hanging posters on telephone poles when the cops arrested her. They then charged her with two counts of felony assault after scuffling. The judge committed her to a mental hospital for evaluation. Now, she faces three years in prirson.

But hey, nevermind, she's a commie.

[speedingbullet]

6. 1st Amendment

As lawyer who has studied the Constitution I think Ms. Fisher has a right to wear the t-shirt. As a criminal defense lawyer I think her choice of attire was not very bright. Brave yes, but not bright.

[medeak]

7. isn't there a dress code in court?

used to be in the old days

[dysfunctional press]

10. no, there isn't.

never was, either.

[depakid]

13. Excuse me?

My guess is you haven't been in too many courtrooms over the years....

[dysfunctional press]

15. you can dress however you like- there's no law that dictates it...

but it's generally not good form to dress in a way that's disrespectful to a judge.

and no, i haven't been in a lot of courtrooms- but the ones i have been in have often been full of some fairly shabby and/or casual dressed people- especially in traffic court in august.

it may vary from state to state, i would assume, and i might expect "dress codes" might be popular in some of the back-ass-ward southern states.

[depakid]

17. Some judges will kick you right out of their courtroom

How much latitude they have might depend on tradition, local or possibly state rules- though some are just arbitrary. It's not uncommon to see dress "codes" forbidding certain attire posted in courthouses- although the judge often has the discertion to go beyond what's posted.

In LA County for example, there was on judge who used to insist that the women attorney's wear skirts. This went on for quite some time before "he got his," so to speak.

I forgot the guy's name so I did a quick search and came up with another judge who did the same thing.

A women no less! (and a Republican, of course).

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/dres30.shtml

[Mr_Spock]

32. That's crazy

I can't believe some of these things happen in America.

Lawyers "request" that you dress nicely to get favorable treatment here in Boston, but I've never ever heard of these nutcase judges who require it - how unAmerican!

[Guaranteed]

27. A judge can basically do whatever they want

in running their courtroom, as far as "civilities."

[yellowcanine]

8. Free speech does not apply in a court room. A judge has the right

to do what he must to maintain decorum in the court room. And actually I agree with not allowing T shirts with political slogans. Otherwise court proceedings could degenerate into political free for alls and it would be impossible to conduct a fair trial.

[Guaranteed]

28. Me too.

And I'm quite fond of civil liberties.

I even agree with the judge on this. It's his job to keep to the issue at hand. When people try to start sideshows, it goes against justice.

[EVDebs]

34. Larry Flynt wore a diaper once in court if I'm not mistaken....

""Also in 1983, during a trial about his refusal to disclose the source of surveillance tapes potentially embarrassing to the FBI, he wore an American flag as a diaper and was subsequently jailed for six months for desecration of the flag.""

http://www.answers.com/topic/larry-flynt

[Vidar]

37. Free speech doesn't apply in the United States.

[depakid]

9. That's probably incorrect

Judges are generally afforded a good deal of latitude to enforce dress codes and decorum in their courtrooms, including what might look like arbitrary decisions in certain cases.

This may well be one of those.

[wizdum]

36. I agree with the point you're making...

...I am not familiar with the case or this judge, but the last thing I would want to do if convicted of two felonies is antagonize the judge who was preparing to sentence me. Even if I was not apologetic, I would pretend I was. I would behave contritely since he has the authority to throw the book at me.

As for the anti Bush tee shirts that she and her supporters wore, the judge could perhaps make a case that they were conducting on unauthorized protest in his courtroom. Although I agree with the message of this woman and her supporters, it can be argued that their behavior is extreme. It's important to stay out of jail so that you can keep getting your message across.

However, having said that, I am glad to hear there is some hard core opposition to Bush, his administration and the war in Ohio.

[Bridget Burke]

11. Judges do get testy about attire.

I've seen young women wearing shorts & flip-flops told to return another day--in traffic court. The question: Has the judge allowed informal wear that is NOT anti-Bush?

When Jenna Bush appeared in an Austin courtroom (without any family), I remember thinking she looked a bit sloppy.

The case, itself, is another matter.

[Kikosexy2]

14. Maybe she ...

should have worn a T-Shirt that said Buck Fush! Police state..police state..

[Sgent]

16. We've got a judge here

who refuses to swear in a witness / seat a defendant unless they are in at least a collared shirt and slacks (or nicer), with no tennis shoes allowed.

If you don't own a sufficient outfit, a local clothing bank will give you the clothes.

[HuffleClaw]

18. TEXTBOOK dirty cop tactics

and they most always find a small person, often a woman to pick on too, just like any other bully.

[the other one]

19. I respect the judge's right to manage his courtroom

As long as he is consistent in his application, I have no problem with him demanding that people entering the courtroom respect the gravity of the situation. If I was a judge I would probably send home anyone who didn't at least try to look like they knew they were in court.

[Roland99]

20. I guess a Black Robe is proper attire, though.

[Gregorian]

21. I guarantee he would have accepted a pro-Bush shirt.

No ifs ands or buts.

[mvd]

35. Exactly

This judge better be watched for how he treats shirts with a message in the future..

[sweetheart]

22. Institutional degneneration and ignorance

The courts are less aware of the constitution than my dog is.

[robbedvoter]

23. umm- so this woman attacked SEVERAL officers? Was she a slayer? Faith?

Was that you?The indictment itself reeks of frame-up!

[seriousstan]

24. This woman has brought it all upon herself from the very beginning.

She is trying to send a message and make a point. She is succeeding, but after a point the message changes. Soon any message she tried to send will be lost in the fact that she doesn't know how to act when in a situation that demands decorum.

[High Plains]

42. Yeah, right. She wanted to get sent to prison for three years for

hanging up anti-Bush political posters. And yes, I'm sure this 100-lb. woman viciously attacked the cops who were hassling her. And she must have been crazy--why else would the judge order her sent for a mental evaluation.

And you criticize her for a lack of decorum? Sheesh.

[Raine]

25. Judges are pissy about their courtrooms

one time when I was in court (as an observer) during the boring crap I was looking at a newspaper. The bailiff came over to me and said if I didn't put it away the judge was going to throw me out of the courtroom. :-( Another time someone got in trouble for chewing gum and another person was kicked out cause they fell asleep. Judges rule those rooms like little gods.

[superconnected]

26. That happens all the time. I worked for a courthouse and often

had to wait on a bench for court to subside so I could get to their computers.

People got in trouble for everything - putting feet on the benches, reading, listening to head phones, taking a call, etc. It was more the women who worked there that would send a post-it note to the person doing the action, than the actual judge doing it.

I did see a few very ugly interactions between judge and defendant though. One went totally off on a guy who was claiming an auto accident wasn't his fault but admitted fault at the scene. The judge and the man got really into it and after court the judge actually appologized to me, for him losing it and me having to watch.

They're human.

Ah, there was one court - I believe it was mental health court (we had about 15 courts). In that court you could do anything. But it was because the place degraded several times a day to screaming, crying, yelling, etc. anyway.

I'm a systems admin/network tech.

[cascadiance]

33. Yup, judges get to wear what THEY want! Check this story out!

This judge was proud of wearing a robe with the 10 commandments plastered on it!

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2004/12/alabama_judge_wears_ten_commandments_on_robe/

Sheesh! He can wear that and someone who's standing before a court awaiting sentencing can't wear what they want?

[noel adamson]

30. This has a lot to do with why our prisons are full* and criminals are

walking free. Dress code violations, political dissent and ethnic discrepancies (AKA "profiling") are the reason people are targeted by police in the first place. Judges are just the next step on the assembly line.

*http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/highest_to_lowest_rates.php

[AbbyR]

31. Dress code?

I know that a girl I used to work with was told to change clothes when she went to court in a culotte-type skirt that looked like knee-length shorts. The judge said she couldn't wear shorts in court. Don't know about Bush t-shirts.

[pokercat999]

38. The president of the US is a war criminal and this

"judge" is worried about what the defendant wears to court? I am starting to understand the purges and assignations by communist takeovers in the USSR, Cuba and elsewhere. If push came to shove, and bush would not leave the presidency at the end of his term then had to be removed by force; I could understand the complete cleansing of the gov't.

[niyad]

39. isn't this the same a**hole judge who ordered her to undergo a psych

eval, saying she must be crazy to be opposed to *???

[Jim Lane]

40. Supreme Court decision in Cohen v. California

The case of Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971), concerned a man who was arrested for being in a courthouse while wearing a jacket that displayed the words "Fuck the Draft". The Supreme Court held (on a 5-4 vote) that prosecuting him for that was unconstitutional.

That doesn't mean that you can wear absolutely anything you please in court. The decision in Cohen stated that, "absent a more particularized and compelling reason for its actions, the State may not, consistently with the First and Fourteenth Amendments, make the simple public display here involved of this single four-letter expletive a criminal offense." By contrast, if someone were wearing clothing that might improperly influence the jury in a trial, guarding against that danger might be a sufficiently "particularized and compelling reason" for the restriction.

In this case, though, the article says that the woman was being sentenced. There was no jury to be affected.

Some people here have raised the point about how the judge treats other slogans. The proper inquiry might be broader than that: how the judge treats other t-shirts. Banning all t-shirts might be legitimate in the name of court decorum. Banning only those with political slogans (even if right-wing and left-wing slogans were treated equally) might be unconstitutional.

text of decision in Cohen
Wikipedia article about the case

[LiberalFighter]

44. I have some bad news about this judge

He ran on the Democratic Party ticket in the primary. Did not have any opposition in the General Election that I could determine.

He was elected in 2004 and terms for Common Pleas Court Judge is 6 years.

Another avenue of attack on this is the Chair of the Cuyahoga County Democratic Party.

Reading other article(s) about this judge he does not appear to favor defense attorneys. He was a former prosecutor before he was elected in 1992.

[Algorem]

41. see in photo local activist Art McKoy was with her at court; maybe she'll

be on his radio show tomorrow night 8-10 in Cleveland

http://www.wtam.com/pages/listen_live.html

http://www.cleveland.com/news/photos/gallery.ssf?cgi-bin/view_gallery.cgi/cleve/view_gallery.ata?g_id=4604

http://www.wtam.com/pages/06bios/mckoy.html

http://www.blackonblackcrimeinc.org

http://www.wtam.com/main.html

[petgoat]

43. Update on Carol Fisher

Here are a few things you might want to know:

1. Carol is doing well and would love to hear from you. To send her a letter, please write to:
Carol Fisher
Prisoner # SO0257713
1215 W. 3rd St.
Cleveland OH 44113

2. Carol had prescriptions for various medications when she entered jail. She has not yet recieved any of them. You can call the jail to demand her prescriptions be filed at 216-443-6000

3. Yesterday, Carol was reading aloud to another inmate from a book that she took into jail with her. "From Ike to Mao and Beyond: My Journey from Mainstream America to Revolutionary Communist," A Memoir by Bob Avakian. As the reading was going on, the other inmate leaned against Carol's arm as she was intently listening to the story. A corrections officer then reported this as an "incident" (prisoners are not allowed to TOUCH each other), and they were threatened with lockdown!

4. An appeal of her conviction has been filed, and we are awaiting the outcome of this.



WHAT YOU CAN DO:

*Donate to Carol's legal defense. It costs a lot of money to get transcripts, file appeals, etc. Make checks payable to “Carol Fisher Defense Fund” and mail to “NION/WCW PO Box 609034 Cleveland, OH 44109.

*Call Judge Timothy McGinty and express your outrage: 216-443-8758

*Get your legal organization to be part of Carol's defense: make statements, file friend of the court briefs, etc.

*Have your church group, school group, organization or club join this battle by sending statements of support, donating funds, etc.

*Put this poster up to show public support and spread the word.

*Request radio stations play any of the following songs, dedicate it to Carol Fisher and explain what is going on with her case:
Tom Petty’s “Won’t Back Down”
Pearl Jam’s “World Wide Suicide”
Pink’s “Dear Mr President”
Neil Young’s “Let’s Impeach the President”

*Write letters to the editor of:
The Cleveland Plain Dealer. Go to website: www.cleveland.com\plaindealer\lettertoeditor
The Cleveland Free Times. Email: [e-mail]
The Sun Press. Email: [e-mail]

*Send this article to your list serves and post to blogs.

*Join the World Can't Wait- Drive Out the Bush Regime!
Contact: World Cant Wait, Cleveland 216-633-6200
PO Box 609034 Cleveland OH 44109
[e-mail]
www.worldcantwait.org

http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1679&Itemid=61