Giant Crater Found: Tied to Worst Mass Extinction Ever

[newportdadde]

<An apparent crater as big as Ohio has been found in Antarctica. Scientists think it was carved by a space rock that caused the greatest mass extinction on Earth, 250 million years ago.>

<The Permian-Triassic extinction, as it is known, wiped out most life on land and in the oceans. Researchers have long suspected a space rock might have been involved. Some scientists have blamed volcanic activity or other culprits.


The die-off set up conditions that eventually allowed dinosaurs to rule the planet.>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060602/sc_space/giantcraterfoundtiedtoworstmassextinctionever

[ixion]

1. 'space rock' is a strange and imprecise phrase...

shouldn't it be meteor?

Just a thought.

I know that's off topic, but it seemed very odd to me.

[DainBramaged]

2. What about an alien battle star testing it's weapons on Earth?

No intelligent life, a perfect opportunity to see if a planet blaster worked?

[Poll_Blind]

4. I'm sure stranger things have happened in the History of The Universe n/t

PB

[dave29]

20. don't get me started - the Zeblon Zoning Wars of 1233223 BFM

(Before this Fleeting Moment) in the outer reaches of the Orion Spiral Arm Segment of what we know as the Milky Way were a laugh riot, indeed

[havocmom]

13. Hey, wasn't Antarctica where Mulder & Scully escaped

from that big ol mother ship? :evilgrin:

That Carter guy is plugged into something!

[Roland99]

22. Dude!

And remember that Lone Gunmen episode about plane hijackings or something similar to 9/11?


Carter really is on to something!

;)

[havocmom]

38. The Truth Is Out There

Lately, WAY out there.

[heartofthesiskiyou]

3. When they say "space rock"

means they don't know if it is a meteor a comet or an asteroid.

I'm not a scientist or anything, that's just what I'v read.

[wtmusic]

8. Comets are made of ice

I think "meteoroid" covers both meteor and asteroid.

[aquart]

24. Are we sure about the ice bit?

[wtmusic]

26. Yes

"A comet is a small astronomical object similar to an asteroid but composed largely of ice."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3A+comet&btnG=Search

although I don't know if it would matter as far as the impact

[Rainscents]

59. That been debunked!

You have search for NASA reversing their story. I do NOT trust NASA!

[Zynx]

57. At that energy yield, composition of the projectile is irrelevent.

[BrotherBuzz]

5. It should be labled a meteorite

A meteor is just a meteor until it strikes the earth when it becomes a meteorite, Most meteors burn up in the atmophere and never reach the earth.

[dave29]

10. more likely asteroid or comet

not sure if metoer would cover something this large

[AngryAmish]

6. wasn't this covered in 'Alien v. Predator'?

[barb162]

9. Nah, I think it was "Mothra versus the Smog Monster"

[On the Road]

7. This is Astounding, but the Thing That Really Got Me

was the speculation that this collision was the event that broke up the supercontinent and began the process of continental drift.

[Briar]

30. Continental drift

goes on continually. They're just guessing that maybe, possibly, perhaps this triggered the split up of Gondwana, the southern continent that resulted from the breakup of Pangea.

Though since the world was created in 4004 BC, obviously they must be wrong.

[Briar]

35. Interesting coincidence, though

The Deccan Traps eruptions coincided with the impact in the Yucatan peninsula and may be implicated in the extinction that occured then. Up till now, people have speculated that the even vaster eruptions of the Siberian traps may have been involved in the Permian-Triassic extinction. Two huge impacts: two huge eruptions: two huge extinctions.

[Oak2004]

44. Possibly not a coincidence

I have seen some researchers speculate that geological "hot spots" may be caused by major asteroid strikes, and so the two may be connected.

I've seen others connect them in a different manner: some speculate that life can survive even some very big strikes (example: no major extinction appears to be associated with the Manicouagan event, if the dating is correct), and some very big volcanic eruptions (again, several supervolcanic eruptions have caused only limited extinction events), but it takes both to cause massive extinction.

[TheMadMonk]

53. If I recall my Red/Green/Blue Mars correctly.

Isn't the Tharsis bulge on Mars directly opposite the Helas Basin?

Seismic waves from an impactor (BTW IIRC that's the correct generic term for anything smacking Ma Gaia upside the haid) spread out from the impact site but are refocused by the Earth's sperical shape to give the opposite side of the planet a hammering from the inside.

Can the locations of the Decan and Siberian traps be backtracked to antipodean positions relative to their respective impacts at the times of those impacts?

[rodeodance]

54. meaning it was one BIG entity that hit with high impact

[Swede]

11. Who goes there?

[jayfish]

14. That Movie Is So Damn Good.

Holds up just as well today as it did 24-years ago.

Jay

[Orrin_73]

17. Agree, the thing is the only movie that still scares

the sh*t out of me after all these years!

[jayfish]

18. I'm A Big Carpenter...

fan (Ghosts of Mars and Vampires not withstanding) and "The Thing" IMO is his masterwork. I had the DVD for a while until my wife "accidentally" sold it at a garage sale. :grr: I haven't had a chance to replace it.

Jay

[Sequoia]

28. It is that movie!

You are so right. It is truly one of the most scary movies I've ever seen, especially that crawly thing with the man's head. I had nightmares for nights.

[Orrin_73]

36. Yeah, that head with the crawls

that scared the hell out of me too and those exploding belly's with all those things coming out of it!!! Even now when I think about it, it gives me a cold shudder.

[jayfish]

41. That Scene Also Coined...

one of the greatest expressions of all time.

"You gotta be fucking kidding"

At least I had never heard it before.

Oh, and when ever I see a dramatization of people using defibrillator, I get a little uncomfortable waiting for the defibrillaties chest to open up and bite off the hands of the defibrillator operator. I was pretty young when I first saw it, so it's made a lasting impression.

Jay

[Orrin_73]

42. The part with the defibrillator where they all were locked up

and the chest that bites off the hands is really chilling. Im amazed that the movie was a boxoffice failure, maybe because it had to compete with ET at the time. I hope to see the movie again,
I'll watch it daytime not at night! :evilgrin:

[Sequoia]

27. Carry on (deleted post)

[cantstandbush]

12. Anyone out there read "The Twellth Planet" by Zecharia Sitchin ?

Check it out if you can find a copy. Then check out the Mayan calendar.

[havocmom]

15. Should I pick up more duct tape while I'm out getting that book?

Mayan view, isn't 2012 when we leave the 'material age' and enter the ether period?

Big plans for Christmas that year? ;)

[cantstandbush]

39. No, but your Christian neighbors might pelt you with stones. n/t

[havocmom]

40. They wouldn't do that. They know I am a gun totin liberal

A couple of the pro-wife beating xians even cross the street when they see me coming :D

[Sequoia]

43. Okay, I will (it's not like I already have 7 books to read!)

That's why I love DU. Aside from discussing super scary movies. I forgot about the chest biting the hand since I haven't seen "The Thing" in years. It's time for TV to put it on again!

Edit: Just got back from Amazon and I see the book isn't Science Fiction. Cool, I love ancient history. I always wondered what knowledge was burned up in the libary of Alexanderia way back when Cleopatra was hanging out. Did you ever read "Worlds in Collusion", by IMMANUEL VELIKOVSKY? I found in the library years ago and was pretty impressed. Just a couple years ago I found an old paperback copy and wouldn't loan it out to anyone.

Here's a reader's comment:

"In the XV century B.C., what is now the planet Venus, a comet coming from Jupiter, passed near the Earth, changing its orbit and axis and causing innumerable catastrophes that formed the early mythologies and religions of the world. 52 years later, it passed near again, stopping for some time the rotation of the Earth, with the ensuing added catastrophes. Then, in the VIII and VII centuries B.C., Venus and Mars almost collided near the Earth, which caused a new round of disturbances and disasters. After that, the current "celestial order" was established, we don't know for how long."

"It is simply breathtaking to know the impressive coincidences and similarities in myth and religion of the whole world. The coincidence of deities, symbols, explanations. It is simply impossible that all that may be simply the product of chance, of people from unconnected lands imagining, out of the blue, the same things. I remained in awe throughout my reading, and I must say that I am a total enemy of easy, conspiracy-minded explanations. I think a healthy skepticism is always good to understand the world. But the research is massive and astonishing. I am sure Velikovsky didn't get everything perfectly. But scientific evidence has been recently going closer and closer to the theories he advanced fifty years ago, when man hadn't even set foot on the Moon and researching technology was far from what we have now. "

(couldn't say it better myself)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385045417/qid=1149272822/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-3191334-1497430?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[lagavulin]

50. They're just "assuming" this is a crater....

They don't know for sure.

Which means, given the location and all, that it's perfectly acceptable for H.P. Lovecraft fans to suspect that this might really be the cyclopean "forgotten city of R'lyeh" where Great Cthulhu lies buried and dreaming.

I'm just sayin'....

[Sequoia]

52. I was wondering what the heck is this about so I found this:

"Cthulhu is a large green being which resembles a human with the head of a squid, huge bat-wings, and long talons (true, that doesn't really resemble a human, but bear with me here). According to H. P. Lovecraft's story "The Call of Cthulhu", Cthulhu rests in a tomb in the city of R'lyeh, which sank beneath the Pacific Ocean aeons ago. Cthulhu is dead but not truly dead, as he and his fellow inhabitants of R'lyeh sleep the aeons away. (Cthulhu is generally thought of as a "he" for some reason.) From time to time R'lyeh comes to the surface, and Cthulhu's dreams influence sensitive individuals across the globe to depict his image, slay, and found cults dedicated to him. In the past, R'lyeh has sunk after a short time, but the day will soon come when it rises to the surface permanently and great Cthulhu strides across a world thrown into chaos and anarchy from his telepathic sendings."


http://www.geocities.com/~betapisces/cthulhu/whocthu.htm

[TheMadMonk]

55. Mate. If you can swallow anything written by Velikovsy...

then don't ever, ever read a Repuke press release or you will be lost to the dark side forever.

For their worldview to become true, one merely has to suspend belief. Foe the Velikovsky worldview to be true, it also requires the suspension of the laws of mechanics, motion, chemistry and a few other disciplines besides.

[puerco-bellies]

16. I would guess the object was a comet

On the K/T boundary there is a high concentration of Iridium, which is much more common in meteoroids and asteroids. It was the presence of Iridium at the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary (K/T) that led to the search for evidence for the "killer asteroid" that wiped out the dinosaurs.

There have been conflicting reports of finding higher then usual levels of Iridium on the Permian/Triassic boundary but nothing seemed solid. With a crater being found and Iridium levels low at that point in the strata I am led to believe that a comet fits the bill as a logical cause of the impact.

Updated to correct the trace element. Thanks to undisclosedlocation for the heads-up.

[dave29]

19. panspermia, anyone?

This paved the way for the dinosaurs, which paved the way for some high budget films about dinosaurs. This is clearly indicated in the geologic and IMDB records

[Bossy Monkey]

21. Iridium n/t

[puerco-bellies]

25. Opps, your right. Need more coffee before posting.

:shrug:

[Eurobabe]

23. Ohio IS a big crater, maybe what they were looking for

has been in front of their faces all along?

DUH-HI-O.

So glad to be out of that state, can't tell you.

[Sequoia]

29. Everyone I ever met from Ohio was good stuff.

[Eurobabe]

48. Except for the diehard Bu$hBOTS from SW corner

north of Cincy. Nice people maybe, but not very bright....lemmings for *

[Marie26]

32. Hey now!

Don't be dissing Ohio. It's a wonderful, beautiful state, that I got out of too. ;)

[Lochloosa]

31. This is obviously BS.

The earth is only 9000 years old.
:sarcasm:

[The_Casual_Observer]

33. Jesus is testing our faith again.

I wish he would stop it.

[happydreams]

45. LOL! It's Lucifer's hammer. There was a book by that

title about an asteroid ploughing into the Atlantic Ocean. These guys were surfing in California when they saw the wave coming. One guy rode the wave for miles. Great read.

[TorchTheWitch]

51. I remember that book!

It was a great read. They called the event "Hot Fudge Sunday" for some reason I can't remember. I also seem to recall there was a mailman with and insane need to keep delivering the mail despite the catastrophe going on.

I should look for that one and read it again.

[happydreams]

60. Oops. Make that read: "Pacific Ocean".

[Turbineguy]

34. On the other hand...

it was probably an ancestor of Bush

[Odin2005]

37. I'd be wary about blaming the P-Tr Extinction on this.

The evidence shows that the extinction occured over a few hundred thousand years, too long to be caused by an impactor. Large impacts arn't allways associated with mass extinctions, and people have tried to blame the late Eocene and late Triassic mass extinctions on impactors, but the impact events they tried to pin the blame on didn't match up time-wise. The K-T impactor was so deadly because it hit limestone and sulfur-ruch rocks, the impact released CO2 and sulfur compounds from the beadrock, polluting the atmosphere with sulfur oxides and sulfuric acid rain and causing massive global warming.

Oh, and the remark on the breakup of the supercontinent is BS, breakup in the southern hemisphere didn't start untill the Jurasic

[Algorem]

46. That Hawkwind made some pretty good space rock.

Never heard of them blowing a big giant hole in the earth though.

[jwirr]

47. Ususally when you find a crater made by a rock you find the

rock. I assume that a space rock would have burned up?

[TheMadMonk]

56. Not when the rock is BIG.

Hell it doesn't even really begin to defrost.

Friction is proportional to the surface area exposed to the slowing medium. The energetic potential of a moving object (it's kinetic energy or momentum) is proportional to the mass and hence the volume of the object. Thus comparing two rocks, one twice the diamensions of the other, the larger rock has four times the surface area and eight times as much kinetic energy. A third rock ten times the diensions of the smallest has a hundred times the surface area and one thousand times the KE.

As a meteor passes through our atmosphere it disipates it's kinetic energy (and hence speed) at a rate proportional to the square of its diameter through frictional processes. However, the kinetic energy energy of the meteor is proportional to the cube of its diameter. So a meteor with twice the diameter of another will disipate it's KE four times as fast, but with eight times the energy to disipate, it will take twice as long to do so.

A meteor burn up through ablation and this is also how they lose most of their kinetic energy. Simplistically speaking that energy is carried away by the bits burning off and turning into a spectacular light show for our enjoyment. A meteor ten times the size of one that just barely burns up completely before striking the ground, will have lost only 10% of its energy by the time it] reaches the ground. Dinosaur killers in the kilometer range lose barely a fraction of a percent of their energy and mass in the time it takes thme to hit the ground.

And past a certain size the energy remaining to be released when an impactor hits the ground is sufficient to completely vapourise it (or at the very least shatter it into lots of tiny pieces) which explains why there are no big rocks to be found in the middle of really big holes in the ground.

[Zynx]

58. Actually, no. It would have been vaporized along with a lot of mantle.

For an example, the K-T impact (the one that killed the dinos) not only vaporized the rock, it blew a hole in the crust and dropped a lot of molten crust and mantle on the other side of the world as it re-entered.

Big impactors have many times the energy needed to completely vaporize.

[olddad56]

49. maybe it is only tied to the worst mass extinction so far.

Don't 'misunderestestimate' this administration.