Father of Marine backs son's Iraq comrades (insurgents "hiding with kids")

[Barrett808]

Father of Marine backs son's Iraq comrades
By ALICIA A. CALDWELL, Associated Press Writer
Wed May 31, 11:20 AM ET

EL PASO, Texas - The father of a U.S. Marine killed by a roadside bomb in western Iraq in November believes his son's comrades did nothing wrong despite a criminal investigation into events that left more than 20 Iraqi civilians dead, including women and children.

"It's very hard for me, I don't even listen to the news," Martin Terrazas said of reports of the mass killings in Haditha, in Iraq's Anbar province. "The insurgents were hiding in there with the kids."

Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas was killed when his military convoy hit a roadside bomb in the western Iraqi city of Haditha. Initial accounts from Marines indicated that a fight with insurgents ensued and that 15 civilians and eight insurgents were killed in the explosion and subsequent firefight.

But now, separate investigations seek to determine whether the Nov. 19 killings were criminal and whether the Marines involved and their commanding officers tried to hide the truth. The Pentagon has said little publicly.

...

"Jarheads don't just go out and kill because they get frustrated," said Luis Terrazas, 39. "Their training is exquisite. It just doesn't make sense."

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060531/ap_on_re_us/marine_killed_family

[niyad]

1. so it's okay to kill kids, because the insurgents (created by US) are usin

them as shields? MyLai, anyone?

[Critters2]

16. But they WEREN'T using the kids as shields

There's no evidence of that at all. These families were in their homes minding their own business.

These men are murderers.

[brentspeak]

22. I guess that means you were there at the scene

Right?

[Critters2]

24. There's plenty of info about this available

Little details, like a dead three year old.

Take a look at post no. 14. Where I come from, "unprovoked killing" is a just governmentspeak for "murder".

[brentspeak]

26. You said

"These men are murderers."

I'll wait until the military criminal justice system has its say on the matter before I form any of my own conclusions, if you don't mind. And if it makes you feel better (because your mind is already made up), the US' military justice system is very flawed and heavily tilted against those who stand accused.

[Critters2]

27. How many "probes" will it take to convince you?

And how many three year olds will die while we wait?

[brentspeak]

28. I didn't use the word "probe"

I mentioned the military criminal justice system.

As for the "And how many three year olds will die while we wait?" -- you should probably bring that question directly to a bunch of Marines rather than this board. They could probably provide a better answer for you than this thread.

[rocktivity]

34. The military "system" didn't know how Hadifha went down

until it was confronted by civilian photographic evidence three months later. And it has a long tradition of not incriminating itself.

:headbang:
rocknation

[niyad]

36. "the military justice system is heavily weighted AGAINST the accused?"

exactly what planet do you live on? MyLai, anyone? TigerCo, anyone? Tailhook, anyone? AFA sex scandal, anyone? shall I go on?

[coalition_unwilling]

30. Didn't you know that the Iraqis killed were

terrorists disguised as children? :)

[Virginia Dare]

2. Nope, nope nope....

This is NOT going to fly. If the facts bear out, they MURDERED children, EXECUTION STYLE.

NO. FUCKING. EXCUSE.---PERIOD

[neverforget]

3. Luis Terrazas is mistaken when he says they don't kill just because

they are frustrated. Their training may be "exquisite" but human nature and emotions can get the best of anyone. The Marines obviously are under extreme pressure and something like this was inevitably going to happen. The only solution to the problem is to get them the hell out of there so this doesn't happen again.

[TomInTib]

8. You are correct, and their "exquisite training" was Boot Camp.

And maybe a little dose of Infantry School.

I have been in that same spot, but with a huge difference regarding training.

These were a bunch of kids in the lower enlisted ranks.

We were SF (Iwas SEAL attached to SF of 2ndMarine). No troops on the planet had more intensive training than us.

When the s*&t hits the fan, your body just takes over. Stopping and taking a deep breath just doesn't cut it.

[rocktivity]

33. Not even exquisite training can overcome being overdeployed, ill-equipped

outnumbered and outsmarted. Meanwhile, their privatized counterparts are raking in ten times their salary. And they don't even have the luxury of being able to complain. That would be enough to deflate the X-Men's morale!

:headbang:
rocknation

[xxqqqzme]

4. wasn't Miguel Terrazas killed the day before the massacre?

or a few hours earlier? Wasn't all this butchery on a return trip later?

[goforit]

5. How fathers suport sons who do wrong. It's a given.

[Vincardog]

7. Right you are. What the hell else is he going to say?

Do you expect him to say
"My son died in a futile attempt, by the Radical Right Wing Nutz, to impose their world view on the MidEast"?

It is not going to happen. We should tell him we grieve with him in his loss. The best way to honor his son is to make sure no other father has to feel his pain.

[brentspeak]

23. What did his son do that was wrong?

His son was killed by a road-bomb a day before the Haditha incident.

[bennywhale]

6. Jarheads don't just go out and kill because they get frustrated,"

"Their training is exquisite. It just doesn't make sense."

Total shit. Of course they do

Ex British SAS man who served with them saw how they behaved.

Mr Griffin said he believed that the Americans soldiers viewed the Iraqis in the same way as the Nazis viewed Russians, Jews and eastern Europeans in the Second World War, when they labelled them "untermenschen".

"As far as the Americans were concerned, the Iraqi people were sub-human, untermenschen. You could almost split the Americans into two groups: ones who were complete crusaders, intent on killing Iraqis, and the others who were in Iraq because the Army was going to pay their college fees. They had no understanding or interest in the Arab culture. The Americans would talk to the Iraqis as if they were stupid and these weren't isolated cases, this was from the top down. There might be one or two enlightened officers who understood the situation a bit better but on the whole that was their general attitude. Their attitude fuelled the insurgency. I think the Iraqis detested them."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas112.xml

This kind of murder has been going on since day one. Little side reports of protestors being killed, not disclosing rules of engagement, British soldiers refusing to serve alongside them. Massacreing wedding parties, laying Falluja to waste, indiscriminate firing after roadside bombs, and the superior racist attitude of some of the Army.

As lot of murder has gone on.

It has been indicative of the US army since WW2. If you search for the stories, they are there. The way some of the US army behaved in europe, Korea, Vietnam, Central and South America. Its integral to the way they work and will never now be forgotten.

America as beacon of freedom and democracy is now unfortunately gone forever

[Blue_Tires]

32. wow...that's crazy

[xchrom]

9. exquisite training just about says it all, doesn't it?

the insanity that exists out there in the minds of the public about soldiers and war.

war crimes have been commited every war.

and bush's drum beats leading up to this illegal invasion guarantees that soldiers are going to lose their minds.

what pisses me off is that the boots on ground soldiers will bear teh crucifiction for a whole cadre of men and women who were never, ever going to have to fight in this abject tragedy.

[ET Awful]

10. Odd, didn't Timothy McVeigh use the same logic when he said that kids

were "collateral damage?"

Sounds like the same defense to me.

[Roland99]

11. A father justifying his son's murderous actions out of grief and despair.

[Vincardog]

15. His son's murderous action was to be killed by a bomb.

It was his troops who went off on the locals.
He is "The father of a U.S. Marine killed by a roadside bomb"

[Roland99]

17. Ah, my bad. Misread the article

[zreosumgame]

19. the actions os his buddies you meant

sad fact is, if dad voted for dumbaya, he helped this happen...

[BrotherBuzz]

12. Mr. Terrazas.....

If the insurgents were "hiding with kids", would that make the kids hostages? How does your local law agency deal with hostage situations? :shrug:

Oh, their training is exquisite, and it just doesn't make sense, but it happened and the military tried to cover it up. I'm truly sad about the loss of your child, but get mad and do something positive to right the wrongs that have been commited!

Reach out to Fernando Suarez del Solar, he'll help you.

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. why is this guy's opinion of value in this thing?

As far as I can see he has about as many degrees of separation from the event as I do.

[Tempest]

14. U.S. probe finds unprovoked killings in Haditha

http://tinyurl.com/lpcum

A preliminary military inquiry found evidence that U.S. Marines killed two dozen Iraqi civilians in an unprovoked attack in November, contradicting the troops' account, U.S. officials said on Wednesday.


Someone forward this to Terrazas since he doesn't watch the news.

[54anickel]

25. There was a story last summer about the insurgents in Haditha.

It says the insurgents tend to leave for a few days when the Marines happen to come into town, only to return after they leave - a lesson learned after Falluja. Surely the Marines knew of this tactic as well. Here's the story for what it's worth. Not sure what to make of the rest of the article, maybe the whole thing was a propaganda piece. :shrug:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1553969,00.html

snip>

Twice in recent months marines backed by aircraft and armour swept into Haditha to flush out the rebels. In a pattern repeated across Anbar there were skirmishes, a few suspects killed or detained, and success was declared.

In reality, said residents, the insurgents withdrew for a few days and returned when the Americans left. They have learned from last November's battle in Falluja, when hundreds died fighting the marines and still lost the city.

Now their strategy appears to be to wait out the Americans, calculating they will leave within a few years, and then escalate what some consider the real war against a government led by Shias, a rival sect which Sunni extremists consider apostasy.

The US military declined to respond to questions detailing the extent of insurgent control in the town.

snip>

Tribal elders said they feared but respected insurgents for keeping order and not turning the town into a battleground.

snip>

The constitution talks, the referendum due in October, the election due in December: all are deemed collaboration punishable by death. The task now is to bleed the Americans and destabilise the government. Some call that nihilism. Haditha calls it the future.

[zreosumgame]

18. if it bleeds it leads.

Sorry this guy is torn up by grief and will grasp at anything to salvage his world-view so he won't have to know his son's life was wasted by a man he probably voted for. Poor bastard killed his own son and can't face it.

[antonialee839]

20. Nowadays who can tell the difference between a civilian child

in pajamas and a Jarhead with a weapon?
:sarcasm:

"Their training is exquisite. It just doesn't make sense."


This guy is in serious denial. It makes all the sense in the world to see this would happen. These guys are at a tipping point, some over the edge, half of them are being sent back over there mentally ill. I'm not condoning what is happening, but it's not too difficult to see how it could happen.

[daleo]

21. It's a shame about his son

But that doesn't excuse murder.

[superconnected]

29. Amazing how people will self justify murder.

[IndianaGreen]

31. We heard this same sorry excuse in Vietnam

It was the same apologia one heard from the rightwing to justify atrocities such as My Lai.

It's their country, asshole!

[rocktivity]

35. "Mothers don't hate their sons!"

That's a line from the movie Ordinary People by a woman who was accused of hating her son. I don't believe that Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas' father and ex-Marine uncle hated him--no doubt they couldn't have been prouder. But their eagerness to side with the Marines is as unseemly and unnatural as the woman not answering, "No, I do NOT hate my son!"

Where is their outrage the initial investigation was a lie? Why are they not sickened that Terrazas' troops honored his memory by shooting innocent civilians? Why are they not calling for the heads of the officers who must have been involved the coverup? It is because Lance Cpl. Terrazas was an officer himself? I've heard of military esprit de corps and all that, but this is ridiculous!

:headbang:
rocknation

[cantstandbush]

37. How can children sleeping in bed and their sleeping parents be

shields for terrorists? It's like ordinary people should not have houses and live in them in Iraq.