NYT: Cheney Pushed U.S. to Widen Eavesdropping

[Robbien]

By SCOTT SHANE
Published: May 14, 2006

WASHINGTON, May 12 — In the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney and his top legal adviser argued that the National Security Agency should intercept purely domestic telephone calls and e-mail messages without warrants in the hunt for terrorists, according to two senior intelligence officials.
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But N.S.A. lawyers, trained in the agency's strict rules against domestic spying and reluctant to approve any warrantless eavesdropping, insisted that it should be limited to communications into and out of the country, said the officials, who were granted anonymity to discuss the debate inside the Bush administration late in 2001.

. . .

As in other areas of intelligence collection, including interrogation methods for suspected terrorists, Mr. Cheney and Mr. Addington took an aggressive view of what was permissible under the Constitution, the two intelligence officials said.

If people suspected of links to Al Qaeda made calls inside the United States, the vice president and Mr. Addington thought eavesdropping without warrants "could be done and should be done," one of them said.

He added: "That's not what the N.S.A. lawyers think."

The other official said there was "a very healthy debate" over the issue. The vice president's staff was "pushing and pushing, and it was up to the N.S.A. lawyers to draw a line and say absolutely not."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/washington/14nsa.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[originalpckelly]

1. WOW! They might be in deep shit. (n/t)

[catnhatnh]

2. Hmm,

Whats the cumulative jailtime for 200 million counts of conspiracy to violate civil rights???

[truthisfreedom]

5. how's 200,000,000,000 years sound?

[Kierkegaard]

13. Sounds like somebody got off light!

Throw in a couple trillion hours of community service and you've got yourself a plea bargain!

*Tip: don't ever hire me as your lawyer...

[stevedeshazer]

3. Cheney Pushed U.S. to Widen Eavesdropping - NYTimes

WASHINGTON, May 12 — In the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney and his top legal adviser argued that the National Security Agency should intercept purely domestic telephone calls and e-mail messages without warrants in the hunt for terrorists, according to two senior intelligence officials.

But N.S.A. lawyers, trained in the agency's strict rules against domestic spying and reluctant to approve any warrantless eavesdropping, insisted that it should be limited to communications into and out of the country, said the officials, who were granted anonymity to discuss the debate inside the Bush administration late in 2001.

The N.S.A.'s position ultimately prevailed. Details have not emerged publicly of how the director of the agency at the time, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, designed the program, persuaded wary N.S.A. officers to accept it and sold the White House on its limits.

Whatever the internal deliberations, General Hayden was the program's overseer and has become its chief salesman. He is certain to face questions about his role when he appears at a Senate hearing next week on his nomination as director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Criticism of the surveillance program flared again this week with the disclosure that N.S.A. had collected the phone records of millions of Americans in an effort to track terror suspects.

more: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/washington/14nsa.html

[acmavm]

4. Yeah, I 'm sure those two senior intelligence creeps are giving us the

straight story.

About that swampland...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. Actually, they're lawyers...they know only what they've been told to...

...say because it's extremely doubtful they would have been cleared to know the exact scope of the eavesdropping program.

[acmavm]

14. Okay, why does this change my point? I don't care if they're janitors,

this is bullshit. We know it's bullshit. They HAVE to know it's bullshit. And anyone who would think that any 'info' coming from any man, woman, child, dog, cat, or lawyer connected with what passes for intelligence services in this country would be the dead on truth seriously needs to have their heads pried out of their posterior.

[rodeodance]

umm... Who leaked this information?

[kestrel91316]

29. NSA will know by Monday at the latest, who leaked. That's the point of

the tracing.

[Karenca]

6. k and r ........... nt

[IndianaGreen]

7. They always shield Bush by blaming Cheney at last resort

This is like Stalin blaming Beria for the gulags, or Hitler blaming Himmler for the Holocaust. The fact is that Bush himself has said that he made the decision to have NSA eavesdrop. Bush called himself "The Decider"! What more evidence do we need when the man confesses in public and brags about it?

[stevedeshazer]

8. It ALWAYS comes back to Dick Cheney

He's always the one behind their evil schemes.

[bleever]

9. K&R!

:kick:

[jpak]

10. Cheney should be the first to be impeached

Followed by an ultimatum to the High Chancellor that he can pick his successor and resign, or face impeachment himself.

[rodeodance]

12. umm.. seems these CIA officials want to put the onus on Cheney (fine with

me). I am sure they tire of being blamed for most 'bad' intel.


....Both officials said they were speaking publicly about the internal discussion because of the importance of the national security and civil liberty issues involved and because the interplay between Mr. Cheney's office and the intelligence agencies is usually hidden from public view. Both spoke favorably of General Hayden; one expressed no view on his nomination for the C.I.A. job, and the other was interviewed by The New York Times weeks before President Bush selected him.

Mr. Cheney's spokeswoman, Lee Anne McBride, declined to discuss the deliberations about the classified program.......

[Demeter]

16. I'm Certain Cheney Is the Prime Mover

They don't call him Darth Vader for nothing.....

[Miss Chybil]

22. You'e right, but the buck still stops with Bush. nt

[KoKo]

18. Sounds too favorable to Hayden. These folks want him confirmed, I

suspect so it's another "propaganda campaign" where we readers are left to parse out which side it's coming from.

Painting Hayden as a "good guy" who changed the program because he thought Darth Cheney was pressing to hard doesn't let Hayden off the hook in my opinion. We have no way to judge what might be the truth of it because it's all "TOP SECRET."

[Robbien]

21. Yes the tone of the article is that Hayden is the good guy

A good guy fighting the good fight against that low-polling nasty Cheney.

What I believe is Cheney may have pushed and Hayden, being the team player he is, said okay.

[Rose Siding]

15. Whoa, I wonder if this is what Tice is bringing to Congress-

snip>
Despite the decision to target only international calls and e-mail messages, some domestic traffic was picked up inadvertently because of difficulties posed by cell phone and e-mail technology in determining whether a user is on American soil, as The Times reported last year.

And one government official, who had access to intelligence from the intercepts and was granted anonymity because of the classified nature of the program, believes that some of the purely domestic eavesdropping in the program's early phase was intentional. No other officials have made that claim.

[Loge23]

17. Both should be arrested

The idiot president and his mentor, the arrogant VP, should be arrested and imprisoned for treason.
They are enemies of our freedom and democracy.

[alfredo]

19. Is that surcharge of $1.50 on my phone bill there to cover

their spying on us?

[WhiteTara]

20. well if he gets arrested for crimes then

it sure will make more people want chimpeachment. The first fear raised by everyone is that Heartless would then be president. I would love to see that evil bastard in prison.

[stepnw1f]

23. Impeach and Indict

then tried for War crimes and maybe a Class Action Lawsuit!

[cornermouse]

24. Makes you feel like adding an addendum to your email

stating.

"Warning this email could be intercepted and read at will by the NSA. It is not private. Please keep that in mind when replying."

[Oak2004]

25. Could be?

Given who we here are, that's more likely a "probably"

[cornermouse]

26. Actually, if I heard the news correctly when I walked through the room

yesterday, their plan is to "capture" ALL phone calls and email. Don't remember what channel.

[calimary]

27. I don't think "could be" even holds anymore. I think it's more like

"already has been".

[ckramer]

28. That's why the gold price is shooting to the roof!

Total corruption.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Cheney Pushed U.S. to Widen Eavesdropping

WASHINGTON, May 13 —

In the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney and his top legal adviser argued that the National Security Agency should intercept purely domestic telephone calls and e-mail messages without warrants in the hunt for terrorists, according to two senior intelligence officials.

But N.S.A. lawyers, trained in the agency's strict rules against domestic spying and reluctant to approve any eavesdropping without warrants, insisted that it should be limited to communications into and out of the country, said the officials, who were granted anonymity to discuss the debate inside the Bush administration late in 2001.

The N.S.A.'s position ultimately prevailed. But just how Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the director of the agency at the time, designed the program, persuaded wary N.S.A. officers to accept it and sold the White House on its limits is not yet clear.

As the program's overseer and chief salesman, General Hayden is certain to face questions about his role when he appears at a Senate hearing next week on his nomination as director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Criticism of the surveillance program, which some lawmakers say is illegal, flared again this week with the disclosure that the N.S.A. had collected the phone records of millions of Americans in an effort to track terrorism suspects.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/washington/14nsa.html?hp&ex=1147579200&en=9a442ce4901ab0c7&ei=5094&partner=homepage


Looks like we have a few more logs to throw on the fire.

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. I sooo want to see Dick Cheney in an orange jumpsuit.

[Greeby]

32. Figures. Did anyone really think this was Shrub's idea

He's so useless that if he held a gun to your head while you were sleeping and pulled the trigger, he'd still miss :eyes:

[emal2me]

37. That reminds me

After Chaney shot that lawyer down in Texas Jay Leno said: "Bush said he stands behind the vice president - way the hell behind!

[oldtime dfl_er]

33. Gee, I'm so surprised

Dick Cheney's office is the black hole of illegality (I know, black holes hold everything in -- but I couldn't think of a better metaphor).


http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/714748

[DELUSIONAL]

34. Is foot in the grave Cheney going to be the fall guy??

Not that I don't think he probably is guilty of all sorts of nasty things -- and is probably the real Prez. But is he also disposable??

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. Bush, Cheney and Rummie

are the core. I think if one falls, then other will fall soon after.

[NoodleyAppendage]

36. Dick Cheney is EVIL INCARNATE. I hope the fires of Hell burn him forever.

Never in my 39 years of existence have I met a politican of such evil and malace for anything smacking of a Constitutional democracy. Serial killers and Cheney are no different. Serial killers murder on a small scale, while Cheney and his policies yield mass murder of thousands. I'm ashamed to even share the same country of origin as his puss-filled, black hearted body.

J

[Heidi]

38. Locking at OP's request.

Duplicate of this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2282031&mesg_id=2282031

Heidi,
DU Moderator

[orleans]

39. so now hayden is a hero??

"The N.S.A.'s position ultimately prevailed. But just how Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the director of the agency at the time, designed the program, persuaded wary N.S.A. officers to accept it and sold the White House on its limits is not yet clear."

spare me.

oh, liberal media.....