Afghan poppy farmers expect record opium crop and Taliban will reap reward

[Roland99]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article363606.ece

The harvest began last week and it is brutally labour intensive and skilled work. Every one of thousands of poppy heads must be lightly scored with a four- bladed razor and then the opium "milk" that oozes forth scraped off and collected.

Depending on the quality of the crop, the operation must be repeated between three and seven times. Behind him in the field, his sons Gul Ahmed, 10 and Juma Jan, seven, were hard at work. Small boys have the advantage of working at the same height as the poppy heads.

Though he is only a paid labourer and does not own the land he is working, Haji Shadi expects to make about $1,800 (£1,000). That represents one-third of the value of the crop on a plot that is four-fifths of a hectare.

In April, a UN rapid assessment that sought only to estimate broad trends in poppy cultivation offered an alarming picture of likely production when it suggested cultivation was down in only three of Afghanistan's 36 provinces and was increasing or strongly increasing in 13.

Damn, the US missed out on a way to recoup some of its costs.

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. When the Taliban was in power, they supressed opium production

That was one of the few things they did I agreed with. Since narcotics are banned in the Quran, the Taliban worked very hard at destroying any production of narcotics such as opium. Once they were driven from power by the US invasion, however, the warlords stepped in and replanted all the fields. I doubt that the Taliban will see a single bronze coin of the proceeds from this crop.

[High Plains]

2. The Taliban only banned opium for one year, in 2000.

Before that, they let farmers grow it. There is speculation the Taliban issued the ban to

1. Keep prices high
2. Try to appease the West (this is when they got $43 million from Colin Powell).

Everybody else is profiting off the trade; I don't see why the Taliban wouldn't be. Their fighters have shiny new uniforms and new weapons...

[radwriter0555]

11. What you're saying is COMPLETELY false. Please don't spread the

GOP lies and misinformation about the Taliban.

[High Plains]

22. Completely false? What part?

Did the Taliban allow opium to be grown during most of its tenure? Yes.

Did the Taliban ban opium in 2000? Yes.

Did the Taliban ban opium because of religious reasons? I doubt it.

Does everyone who is anyone in Afghanistan profit from the trade? Pretty much.

Does the Taliban now profit from the trade? My sources tell me yes, but not as much as other forces that are stronger on the ground. In the good old days, the Taliban could tax the fields; now, as an insurgent group, it can only tax the traders and smugglers.

I've been to Afghanistan. I don't need to get talking points from the GOP.

[radwriter0555]

29. The Taliban spent its tenure trying to get afghanis to rid themselves of

their agricultural dependence on the poppy trade. Once they were successful, the bush regime stepped in to get the heroin trade back on track.

Yes, they banned it for religious and social and conscientious reasons and so that they'd not be dependent on trade with westerners, ultimately.

If by "everyone" you mean the Northern Alliance who's stock in trade also includes pederasty and its reinstatement since they've regained power, which the Taliban also banned, sure, "everyone" in afghanistan profits from the heroin trade... So does the ISI in Pakistan. Mostly, so does the USA. It's all part and parcel.

Your sources don't tell you that the Taliban benefits from the heroin trade. MSM does. Disinformation does.

My sources on Afghanistan and the Taliban tell me a completely different story than the ones propped up for mass digestion over these past 8 years. The gop is well served by waving the spector of the evil taliban as a boogie man alongside the long dead osama bin laden.

The taliban is run by old fashioned people with old fashioned ideals. They're not terribly sophisticated or interested at all in dealing with the outside world. Don't ya think if they were in the heroin trade they'd be a LOT better off financially?

[genieroze]

31. Once they were successful, the bush regime stepped in to get the heroin

trade back on track. Thanks for saying this, it needs to be said.

[Tempest]

37. Your sources?

Name your sources.

Without the ability to independently verify your sources are credible, they are as credible as Bush's claims Iraq had WMD.

[radwriter0555]

42. Google is your best friend. Try this string...

bush heroin trade poppy afghanistan cia isi pakistan atta

You'll have about 10 hours of reading ahead of you.. pick and choose which articles from which sources you feel are most credible. Some are tin foil sites, some are MSM.

[Tempest]

48. Wait a minute...

You made the claim you had sources. When someone makes that claim, it usually indicates information outside of the normal channels.

Regardless, you claimed you had sources and I requested those sources.

Telling me to go to Google is a cop-out.

Again, what are your sources?

[radwriter0555]

54. I made no allusion to special sources. It's all about knowing the facts.

The facts are laid out in the sources I suggested you look at. My sources are no different than yours unless you insist on relying on the bush regime for news and information, and we know their track record isn't very good.

None of my information about the Taliban is new news. Nothing has changed. Taliban warlords aren't running the Northern Alliance or any centrist government or anything else anyone in the bush regime wants to slap a fancy name on and call a pig.

The fact remains in spite of the atrocious lies of the bush regime that the taliban has always been and remains opposed to the production of heroin/poppies/opium or anything else you or anyone else wants to call it.

No one anywhere can provide any such information that the taliban has changed its position.

No one anywhere other than the bush regime is stating that the taliban stands to benefit from heroin/poppies/opium.

I have to ask.. why on earth would anyone -- especially a democrat -- believe the bush regime?

I'm sorry you've failed to prove your position, but I appreciate you proving mine. I mean you no shame or harm, I'm just right is all.

[dysfunctional press]

15. yup. there was a glut in the market...

they were being good capitalists.

[MacDuff]

3. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!

I wonder if any of that tasty heroin cash is ending up arming Iraqi Death Squads...?

[DrDebug]

13. The heroin labs are in Turkey and northern Iraq

The old route was via Tajikistan-Uzbekistan-Russia-Europe but that was not successful route.

Since the "liberation" of Afghanistan the golden route is once again the most important route: Afghanistan-(Pakistan)-Iran-Turkey ( http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/GI03Ag01.html ) The downside is those heroin laboratories are in Turkey and the Turkish government is fighting a war against the PKK who are controlling the labs.

However since the "liberation" of Iraq, the Zaho area in northern-Iraq is becoming more and more important as the place where the laboratories are which means that the new route is becoming Afghanistan-Iran-Iraq-Turkey.

And the PKK is often described as a terrorist organisation and since the Kurds are making lots of money in the heroin trade since they control the labs, it is very likely that some of the money ends up with the Iraqi (Kurdish) resistence.

[noonwitch]

4. It's too bad there's not a way to get pharmacuetical companies to buy

the opium crop. There's no way Upjohn or Lilly could compete with the illegal profits that can be made, though.

[noel adamson]

5. So where do you suppose they will be sending this ?

Can heroin be classified as a WMD? Can continuing to flood America with this crap be classified as "terrorism"? Or is "terrorism" confined to Quakers planning ant-war protests, Catholics protesting the School Of The Americas, Cat Stevens and The Dixie Chicks?

At least we know our ports are well protected....

[Ariana Celeste]

7. Are you serious?

n/t

[Boomer]

8. No, he's not serious

He was being sarcastic. Some people rely on syntax rather than a :sarcasm: icon.

[Ariana Celeste]

9. Thanks

haha

:hi: I was hoping that was the case... I've heard similar in the past, otherwise I would have automatically assumed he was joking. :)

[noel adamson]

16. Sorry Ariana

I am often sarcastic and tend to be an intellectual bully to compensate for my actually meager intellectual abilities. :7 I was raised by Republicans.

I do suspect that the Taliban is responsible for flooding the U.S. with cheap heroin though the Northern Alliance, long time buddies of the CIA are probably more likely culprits. The CIA has a very long and well documented history, not only of trafficking drugs to finance their black ops but in targeting groups like the people of South Central L.A. with crack cocaine to finance the Contras and presumably as an attack on the social structure and credibility of the black community there.

Our own G.I.s in Vietnam were recipients of heroin brought from the highlands by the CIA.

[Ariana Celeste]

17. no need for sorry

:). I was only on my first cup of coffee (we're second shifters), generally that point of the day I need the sarcasm smilie to help me :D
Your suspicion is probably right. :hi:

[Tempest]

18. Majority of Afghan's crop goes to Europe

Little or none comes to the U.S.

Even Iraqis have been seeing Afghan opium in their country for the first time. American soldiers are using it according to reports.

[noel adamson]

46. Thanks Tempest...it is cheap and plentiful here on the west coast...

...allegedly coming from Mexico, but I can't help but wonder...

[Tempest]

49. I'm sure small amounts of heroin make it to the U.S.

In the final heroin form, but the raw opium from Afghanistan goes through several countries first.

As far as I know, and after searching around, it doesn't appear Afghanistan is in the large scale heroin production business. They don't need to be considering the size of their opium crops.

[saigon68]

6. In order to have hundreds of thousands of police in amerika

They need to go after thousands of heroin sellers

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. Besides who else would they fill their prisons

with in order to bring high paying jobs to rural communities.

[saigon68]

30. Its "operation get some dumb white men" w/ no teeth

To guard a few black and brown Drug sellers

[radwriter0555]

10. NO. The taliban has always been opposed to poppy production. They WILL NOT

benefit from this.

THE NORTHERN ALLIANCE WILL. The people BUSH PUT IN POWER.

Please don't believe the republican lies about the Taliban.

[Tempest]

19. The Taliban have been benefiting since the war

Just after the war, the Taliban pulled opium stores and placed it on the market.

The Taliban needs funding and has been using opium since 2002.

They also protect the farmers from the Afghan army.

Robert Fiske has a series of articles that describe just how involved the Taliban has been in the opium trade since the war.

[radwriter0555]

20. Absolute misinformation. The taliban is not in the heroin trade and never

has been.

Robert Fiske has been wrong on many occasions.

[Tempest]

21. He's been right more times than wrong

What I don't understand is why you're so hard-core set on believing the Taliban isn't involved in the opium trade.

They have all the reasons in the world to be involved. Billions of reasons as a matter of fact.

And if you think it's because of their religion, acts of terrorism is also against their religion, yet they engage in terrorist attacks almost daily.

[High Plains]

24. You've got a pretty strong opinion on this topic.

Anything to back it up besides vehemence?

[radwriter0555]

34. I checked fiske's articles and didn't see this association made.

In fact the articles I came across reiterated my position.

http://www.robert-fisk.com/

I searched the site for heroin.

Am I missing something?

[Tempest]

35. Yes, you are missing something

"I searched the site for heroin."

Try "opium", genius.


"In fact the articles I came across reiterated my position."

They weren't written by Fiske according to your cite.

[radwriter0555]

36. I would be interested in reading the fiske articles, I can't find them...

And the only source for the rhetoric about the taliban is the USA.

I found one source claiming the UN made a correlating statement, without a link or source to the UN for that statement, and without its context.

Frankly, I don't find the US government straw man "US/BBC Sources say...." to be terribly credible. that's kinda like trusting bank robbers with your money, right?

When you understand the basic fundemental idealogy of the taliban without relying on the US lies and rhetoric that were used to justify the unwarranted invasion and conquest of afghanistan, you'd realize that the Taliban isn't in the drug trade.

And I have no idea how credible fisk is, either.

I know what I know based on the history of the taliban prior to their being accused of being terrorists and 'harboring' bin laden, etc, etc. etc. Most people never even heard of the taliban prior to 911.

[Tempest]

38. What is truly known about the Taliban is sketchy at best

No one knows what the Taliban's role in opium production was other than their public pronouncements.

And as you know, what one says in public rarely mirrors reality.

Especially when it comes to religious figures and groups.

They claimed to have stopped opium production, but according to the U.N. and other groups, Afghanistan was still a major source of opium.

The Taliban wasn't a centralized system or group. The Taliban were a regional based fiefdom made up of warlords. Each regional leader ran his area by his own rules. To believe each leader followed a centralized edict on opium production is naive.


And you're wrong, most people heard of the Taliban before 9/11 when the destruction of the religious statues and holy sites by the Taliban was made public.

[radwriter0555]

44. The UN has never ever stated that the TALIBAN was a source for heroin.

IN fact, the UN lauded the Taliban, even as it was the unrecognized governing element in afghanistan at one time, for having eliminated the heroin trade at least for a period of time... until the bush regime went in a took over, of course.

The UN has never accused the taliban of the drugs trade. People have SAID they have, but no record of the UN accusing the taliban has come to light.

The straw man was hard at work!

[Tempest]

50. Afghanistan has never been a large source of heroin

They're in the opium business, not the heroin business.

There's a big difference.



The U.N.'s survey of Afghanistan was hardly complete.

http://opioids.com/afghanistan/index.html

[radwriter0555]

40. Here's the basis for my position... The taliban are like the amish or the

hassidic jews. They're ultra conservative politically, socialogically, idealogically. The allegations of their being involved in the heroin/opium trade is like saying that all the amish are secretly drug dealers or that all the hassidics are trafficking in drugs, etc. It goes against the grain and basic fundemental reasons for the founding of their particular cult.

So... when that basic reality is factored in, and you toss out ALL the rhetoric that has puked from the bush regime for the past 6 years about the taliban; when you factor in the deep ISI links to the heroin trade; when you factor in the bush family history in the heroin trade; when you factor in the covert CIA links to the heroin trade stretching back decades... you get a mathematical equation that doesn't add up UNTIL you remove the taliban from the equation. Why does the bush regime factor in the taliban? Because they need a boogie man in afghanistan. I'm not quite sure why yet, but it's coming.. something will trigger an "ah HAH! that's why!" in say... 3-6 months.

I have to tell you without arrogance or agenda that there are some things I am right about based on basic gut instinct. When I go this far to say I'm right, I've never ever been wrong. The list is pretty long, but the major issues have been the stolen elections, 911, saddam hussein lack of mass murders, the corruption of the bush regime and karl rove; I was the first one to say that Jessica Lynch wasn't kidnapped nor was she a pow, and that saddam wasn't found in a spider hole. I was the first one to say OBL didn't perpetrate 911, and that the bush regime did. And that's the short list.

The taliban isn't in on the heroin trade in afghanistan. That's what I know about it.

[ronnie624]

41. Perhaps you will find this one of interest.

<http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_10_01_heroin.html>

[radwriter0555]

43. Thanks, you're right.. this reiterates my position very well, and I don't

even LIKE ruppert.

He says,

"Now, as the CIA moves to control the drug trade in the region you can be sure of several things. First, when the world sees an explosion of heroin from the region it won't be the Taliban's doing."

[Tempest]

52. It won't be the Taliban's doing because they're not in power

However, the Taliban era warlords are.

And as I stated before, the warlords were the regional power in Afghanistan during the Taliban era and it is highly unlikely they followed the central government's edicts concerning the opium trade.

Ruppert's article even states as much.

[Tempest]

51. You must have missed this

"We will bomb their poppy fields," he neglects to mention that there aren't any poppy fields in Taliban controlled areas to bomb.


Pay particular attention to the Taliban controlled areas part.

Also, the article mentions the large stores of opium that were not destroyed.


The article casts a lot of doubt on the Taliban claim to have eradicated the opium trade.

[frankenforpres]

12. it should be legalized anyhow

the stuff could easily be made for pharma, but for some reason it is not allowed

[genieroze]

33. Let's legalize the most addictive drug known to man and keep pot

illegal. :sarcasm:

[frankenforpres]

53. legalized for pharmaceuticals

i think pot should be legalized, but many medical use opiate drugs could be made with the afghan crops

[benburch]

14. No, if only they would have a bumper HASHISH crop...

:evilgrin:

[ShortnFiery]

23. Is that why Afghanistan is getting safer and more Democratic every day?

:sarcasm:

[daleo]

25. A record opium crop and a new CIA director

That's nice.

[WinkyDink]

27. What makes you think we did? Or, rather, Bushco did?

[Roland99]

28. Good point.

[leesa]

32. Right. The TALIBAN will reap reward. How soon we forget the Taliban

had a zero tolerance opium policy, unlike the Bush Crime Syndicate.

[Tempest]

39. The Taliban may have claimed to have a zero tolerance

But it's highly doubtful and dubious at best that the declaration filtered down to the local level.

Warlords like Dostum was involved in the opium trade before the Taliban took power. Dostum continued to be one of the most powerful warlords during the Taliban's reign. It's highly unlikely he gave up his role in the opium trade despite what was coming out of Kabal hundreds of miles away.

[Peter Frank]

45. ,,,"the US missed out on a way to recoup some of its costs"

;)

[Vidar]

47. Another victory in the war on drugs.

[Tight_rope]

55. YES...Dope is in more demand here in the US then every before!

It's a good thing that the Afghan poppy farmers are willing to put making a profit to the side just to make sure we have our daily fixes. Some like the Chimp get to have it more then others. But as long as we get our daily share is all that matters. :sarcasm:

I mean listen to how they describe opium. "Every one of thousands of poppy heads must be lightly scored with a four- bladed razor and then the opium "milk" that oozes forth scraped off and collected."

Damn they make it sound like it's the best milk shake out there.:shrug: :think:

On second thought...It is!