Domestic killings shock Swiss (Gun laws questioned)

[bennywhale]

The murder last week of one of Switzerland's most famous skiers has forced the Swiss to look long and hard at a crime that is worryingly common in their society. Corinne Rey-Bellet was shot by her husband Gerold Stadler just days after the couple had agreed to separate. The Swiss media tend to call cases like this "family dramas", in which a man kills his wife, often his own children, and himself. Family slaughter might be a more accurate term - there have been 14 such cases in Switzerland in the last 11 months.

"Here in Switzerland we are brought up to expect everything to go according to plan," he explains.
"Just like our trains run on time, we've come to expect our lives to run to plan, and when they don't, we go wild." says Martin Boess, head of Switzerland's crime prevention unit.

Mr Boess blames the Swiss army's policy of requiring Swiss men, who all have to do military service, to keep their guns and ammunition at home in case of an emergency call-up. What that means is that nearly all Swiss men have a sturmgewehr - a sub-machine gun - stored somewhere in their homes.

"If things go wrong, he can go upstairs, get the gun, and shoot," says Mr Boess.
In most of Switzerland's "family dramas", an army gun is used. Stadler shot his famous wife with his officer's pistol.
"It's very common to hear women tell how their husbands remind them they have a gun in moments of tension," says Brigitte Schnegg, professor of gender politics at Berne University.

The Swiss gun lobby is strong, and until now all attempts at gun control have been defeated.
For the first time, opinion polls show a majority of Swiss want the guns out of their homes, and stored in a safer place.
The days when every Swiss man had a weapon, in the garage next to the kids' bikes or the lawnmower, may be numbered.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4755143.stm

[Karmakaze]

1. Hey don't spoil one of the gun lobby's best arguments!

The fact that every house has a gun in Switzerland is meant to be a great deterrant to crime, not the cause of it!

[toopers]

3. Do you have the statistics for other crimes?

It would be interesting to see what is the average rate of crimes like home invasions, robbery, et al. And I wonder if the rate of spouse abuse is different than the rest of Europe.

[Karmakaze]

5. LOL

Statistics are the most worthless arguments you can use. No matter what your point of view, there are statistics that will support it.

Besides, its not my argument. You want to prove something, you go get your own statistics. :P

[DrDebug]

7. It's difficult to compare statistics, but Switzerland has a low crime rate

I found this

In 1997, there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country -- with firearms involved in 91 of the 189 total cases.

Switzerland had a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000 population and a robbery rate of 36 per 100,000.

Almost half of those crimes were committed by non-resident foreigners -- whom locals call "criminal tourists."

By comparison, Britain -- which has strict gun control laws -- had a homicide rate in 1994 of 1.4 per 100,000 and a robbery rate of 116 per 100,000.

http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pd061099b.html

Even though it has the conclusion that the homicide rate in the UK is higher than Switzerland, it is false statistics since the robbery rate / overall crime rate is more four times higher. Switzerland is more a country for white collar crime...

[Crayson]

2. "gun laws" is a little bit misleading here

Switzerland already has a quite tight gun law.

You can purchase guns only if you have a gun license.
This allows you to keep a semi-automatic handgun at home and use it on the training range.

Plus, nobody (no normal person) is allowed to carry guns in the public.
For this you need another license which technically nobody gets without a real real good reason and even then it very limited in time and location. (maybe bodyguard of a politician, money transports, can't think of anything else)


The army gun is a different thing.
This is an full auto assault rifle which the army REQUIRES you to have. You don't buy it, you don't WANT it, you just have it (usually in your cellar or up in the roof somewhere out of the way).
In the Swiss army you are a soldier all the time from age 18 to age 30, officers even longer. During this time you have to do 2-week periods of service (repeated training).
And you have all the light army material (uniform, backpack, gun) at home.


The funny thing is:
With so many assault rifles around, almost nothing ever happens.
There are those family drama cases maybe once a year. Compared to the US crime statistic where in some cities you have a murder a day and shootings don't even get reported any more, Switzerland is very safe.
If somebody fires a round in public he's considered an amok shooter and makes big news headlines for months.


Instead of discussing the gun laws in Switzerland it should rather be spoken about discontinueing the reservicst militia army and replacing it by a much smaller professional army, which in turn would have all it's materials in their barracks instead of at home.

[Karmakaze]

6. Maybe once a year?

I swear the article said there had been 14 cases in the last 11 months??? Yep there it is, plain as day.

Besides, if it is no big deal, then why all of a sudden is this practice being questioned? Did some Swiss people just decide one day that something that has never been a problem should be changed just for the hell of it?

[Bossy Monkey]

9. Has this changed in the last few decades? When I visited Switzerland

in the '80s, I remember an older gentleman getting on my train car carrying a hunting rifle. Definitely not a handgun, definitely not an assault rifle, and very definitely in no way concealed. I'm sure he was just on his way to go hunting. It wasn't scary or anything; just odd.

[Romulus]

4. Switz. is as safe or safer than other EU countries

As I posted here

Even with these awful domestic violence cases, it is still a safe country.

20-year homicide rate trends based on a 2004 DOJ study of long-term crime stats across several countries:

UK (Eng/Wales) homicide (0.011-0.014 per 1000)
Australia homicide (0.018-0.023 per 1000)
Canada homicide (0.020-0.030 per 1000)
Swiss homicide (0.011-0.014 per 1000)
US homicide table: (0.0825-0.0983 per 1000)

[heidler1]

8. Thanks for the info. It does seem to imply that here in the USA

That maximum greed causes more homicide.
That a wild west left over culture causes more homicide.
that our favorite heroes are too gun oriented.
That the popularity of killing other animals while hunting rubs off onto killing each other.
That readily available guns are dangerous when coupled with rage that is all too common.
That issued gun carrying permits can not reasonably predict rage tendencies unless the record shows previous uncontrolled rage. Which means the person has already f**ked up.