Sen. Clinton Says Bush Has Charm, Charisma

[DoYouEverWonder]

May 9, 2006

WASHINGTON -- Asked to say one nice thing about President Bush, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton went one better: She named two things.

"He is someone who has a lot of charm and charisma, and I think in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, I was very grateful to him for his support for New York," Clinton said Tuesday night during a talk at the National Archives about her life in politics.

Clinton, a potential presidential candidate in 2008, said that despite their "many disagreements about many, many issues," she has always had a good personal relationship with the president.

"He's been very willing to talk. He's been affable. He's been good company," said Clinton, D-N.Y.

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-hillary-clinton-bush,0,4661609.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines


Okay Hillary, time to lay off the Kool-aide.

[bbinacan]

1. You know she's looking at 2008. n/t

[iconoclastic cat]

9. Not just no.

[Frank Cannon]

24. But fuck no.

[NastyDiaper]

153. and hell fucking no

she's the reason I felt that I had to get involved early. Ms Warbuckz can jump in a lake, then watch the fish float to the top.
Primaries motto for me: ABC

[saigon68]

220. On top of Charisma He's a Fucking WAR CRIMINAL

[Jawja]

90. Well there's no way in

hell she's getting my vote. No wonder Murdoch is supporting her... geesh.

[katty]

123. sickening...'charm&charisma' won't U.S.+Iraq out of hell

[Tellurian]

124. She's also looking at a War Criminal, sociopath,

who would be happier with the Clintons residing in Leavenworth
or better yet, permanently deep six'ed in Arlington.

[mom cat]

162. Yeh. Just ask the families and friends of the dead and wounded, here and

over there just how much charisma Bush has. Oh. I forgot. Hillary supports the war too. Maybe we should ask the families and friends of the dead and wounded how much they support Hillary. Probably as much as I do.
I will NEVER support a candidate who supports the wars we are in now or any other "preventive wars" or wars based on staged events or erroneous radar blips or wars caused by undermining diplomacy.

[Vinnie From Indy]

2. She could have said....

"Do you remember when George Bush was asked a year or so ago if he had ever made a mistake and he couldn't come up with an answer? I know exactly what he feels like right now."

[leftchick]

73. that

would have been perfect.

[LostinVA]

78. Oooh... perfect!

[Massacure]

3. I wonder how much alcohol she has had to drink?

I bet she is going to regret those words tommorow morning.

[TheFarseer]

4. Is she in that 32% that supports bush?

Makes you wonder what she's doing. Even the republicans are jumping ship but she's lashed herself to the mast for some reason.

[TankLV]

212. She couldn't make it to the 700 club meeting with Dean, aparently.

Got to make it up in other ways it seems!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. K & R for the moment that Hillary jumped the shark. n/t

MKJ

[sam sarrha]

6. it is true, he has a lot of charm while sucking corporate dick.. or taking

'interviews' from gannon.. he just cant get compassion right.. has not concept of equanimity.. justice, or democracy. he is a charming pompous ass wet brain alcoholic drug addict.. moran and just a thug.

[teknomanzer]

30. Narcissists can be quite charming...

to those who don't know them personally. Its a complete facade; a mask; a cover. I know from personal experience. I've seen one go from evil bitch to sweet and charming in a nanosecond.

[pnwmom]

82. Yes. Why are people assuming you can't be charming in an evil way?

To charm means to cast a spell. He cast a spell on a huge number of Americans after 9/11 and the majority have only broken free in the last year.

[ekelmore]

93. I agree

Are we forgetting he was reelected? Obviously that "charm and charisma" was enough to make the masses believe he was the lesser of two evils. And although I personally despise Bush, I don't dislike Hillary for her opinion of him. As a democrat commenting positively on Bush, she is aligning herself with Republicans (we already know she upholds democratic ideals) , and that will keep the country united. You pit one party against the other for eight years, and it's hard to reunite them for the representation of the people. Remember what's important. Don't bash the woman for the way she feels for him as a person. How many of us work with someone we like as an individual and loathe as a co-worker?

[Javaman]

94. You're new here aren't you? lol nt

[ekelmore]

98. I sure am

[ekelmore]

99. Too objective for DU? lol

[Javaman]

103. Yeah, LOL, I hope you survive. nt

[Andromeda]

183. Welcome to DU, ekelmore...

:hi:

[pnwmom]

105. Welcome to DU, ekelmore!

Another point is that the question posed to her was to name something she likes about Bush. Was she supposed to say, "nothing, he's the devil incarnate"? So she answered the question by pointing out all the ways they disagree on policy, but acknowledging that he had some personal appeal. Big deal.

[lumberjack_jeff]

197. Sure. Ted Bundy was charming too. n/t

[Southsideirish]

118. So can sociopaths. nt

[ekelmore]

131. That's just it, isn't it?

Maybe she was insinuating he is symbolic of the antichrist in a devilishly charming way while exhibiting sociopathic tendencies. There you go, we just analyzed what she really meant. Or maybe she's just being political. Oh yeah, that's right, there's an election coming up. Sure everybody in the DU is goin to gripe, but is anyone else not associated here going to care? She could be trying to secure moderate votes. Who knows? I agree with another post suggesting the reprimands that would have come about as a result of being ugly instead of blase. It isn't really that big a deal.

[pnwmom]

172. That's what I tend to think, too. And in either case, the people jumping

on her are way over-reacting.

[Andromeda]

184. It's more than over-reaction.

The righteous indignation of the Hillary bashers rings hollow since they were never supporters to begin with.

I think they enjoy engaging in this "sport" so they can get their talons sharpened for the primaries.

[tanyev]

7. Hey, that's how Tim LaHaye described the Antichrist!

Countdown to the Rapture #2
The Regime
The Rise of the Antichrist

Dynamic Romanian multimillionaire Nicolae Carpathia's sphere of influence steadily grows as he parlays his looks, charm, charisma, and intellectual brilliance into success in business and politics. But is it mere coincidence that those who oppose or offend or even slight him suffer to the point of death?
http://www.leftbehind.com/channelbooks.asp?channelID=223


Coinkydink? It falls apart at "intellectual brilliance", though.

[Patchuli]

117. It fell apart sooner than that! Like at the

looks and charm part! He looks like an angry/stupid chimp and I find nothing charming about a man who could send many to their deaths unnecessarily.

Of course, Hill was taken in by Bill's 'charm' too...heheheee

[Laura PourMeADrink]

8. Oh God -- Hope she isn't trying to buy the phony election

programs from him !

[Gregorian]

10. And that's how Phillip Short decribed Pol Pot.

Philip Short, the foreign correspondant of The Times in London.

"The definitive portrait of Pol Pot, the enigmatic man behind the most terrifying regime of modern times Pol Pot was an idealistic, reclusive figure with great charisma and personal charm."

"Observing Pol Pot at close quarters during the one and only official visit he ever made abroad, to China in 1975, Philip Short was struck by the Cambodian leader’s charm and charisma. Yet Pol Pot’s utopian experiments in social engineering would result in the death of one in every five Cambodians—more than a million people."

[yourout]

11. Wonder were he is hiding it?

All I see is a smarmy lieing two face clown.

[demo dutch]

12. Oh how politically correct!

[Clovis Sangrail]

13. politican=whore

Hilary is not exempt

[Union Thug]

14. Murdoch, Bush...Hillary lost any support I would have given her

Buh-bye Hillary. Once I would have thrown faux support your way, even though I don't really like your politics much. But recent events have left me wondering if you are not the next Joementum.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

109. Same here

She's shameless.

Her remarks about "the tragedy of abortion" left me wondering. Since then, she's gotten much smarmier.

I once backed her all the way.

No more. She's beyond redemption.

[0007]

15. I wish she wouldn't say those dizzy sounding kissy kissy things.

But in a way she's sticking it up the freepers big time, especially now that the freepers are disenchanted with him.

[glarius]

16. Please explain to a non-American when he aquired this charisma.

Whenever I hear someone say George Bush has "charisma" I am absolutely astounded. For gawd's sake, the man stammers and huffs and puffs and never says anything worth hearing. Nothing but inanities. I remember when he first appeared on the scene as the candidate before the 2000 election. As I remember it, every time the media mentioned him, they talked about his sneer. There was no mention then of a charismatic charmer. What happened that turned him into this loveable darling that everyone would like to have a drink with?

[Seabiscuit]

66. Rove went to work, Murdoch played along, Fox broadcast it, and the

media whores all fell in line: "Oh, look, the emperor has charm!" instead of "The emperor has no clothes!"

[antonialee839]

17. I just don't get it.

[butterfly77]

142. The devil is working...

Look for more surprises and secrets, I am beginning to believe that someone is setting up something for a third party or something else. I already was angry that the repugs were telling us she was running as though all dems wanted her to run. Now I don't give a damn all of these hypocrites are coming out of the woodwork. Look at the DINO"S that voted for a tax cut. They don't give a damn what we think!

[Mind_your_head]

18. That's a pretty thin 'recommendation', don'tcha thinK?

(Can't people 'read between the lines' *sheesh*)....

Although I will ALWAYS respect people like Rep. John Conyers who can *just say it straight*

[bdamomma]

19. that comment makes me want to

:puke:

[ecstatic]

20. She crossed the line this time

Gosh, I used to want her to be President. Now I just feel disappointed and disillusioned. I love the Clintons but they are way too soft on treason.

[kurth]

21. Come on, Hillary, WHO GIVES A SHIT?

Geeeeez... How many times is she gonna kiss his ass?

[Clovis Sangrail]

22. maybe it's all a ploy

she's running towards the middle so the repulicans will think she's planning on running in 08
then they'll spend all of their money before the primaries screaming about her.
But at the last minute she pulls out and says "HA!"

...yeah... I doubt it too

[Placebo]

23. This is just throwing gasoline on the fire...

for all of the anti-Hillary people on this board.

*sigh*

[ProudDad]

216. It has nothing to do with Hillary per se

I loath all capitalist toadies.

[chookie]

25. So did Senator Kennedy (TDS)

So did James Carville and Paul Begala. They all testify to Bush's personal charm and interpersonal skills.

Maybe it only shows behind closed doors. LBJ was stiff in public, but in private was a great wit, mimic and storyteller.

I personally find claims of Bush's "charm" to be utterly baffling. He strikes me as a mean-spirited lying little runt.

I have searched long and hard for some positive quality of the man, but I honestly just don't see it.

[Zhade]

69. How does one find a murderer charming?

It boggles the mind.

[pnwmom]

106. There are lots of well-connected people, but they don't all become

president. How would Bush have gotten this far if he hadn't been able to charm people? To me, Hillary is just stating the obvious, in response to a question that asked her to say something positive about Bush.

[lumpy]

135. Power, money, money and

more money, lies, campaign conniving and an shallow/indifferent/ignorant public put Bush in office. Doesn't say much for 50% of American voters. H.Clinton will never get votes for the same reasons Bush got them, shallow/indifferent/ignorant voters.

[Zhade]

176. Do you think she's obligated to play nice with fascists?

NT!

[Mike Daniels]

100. Some people are better one-on-one or in small-groups

Some people don't come off well on camera or in big group environments when everything is scripted.

Perhaps that's the case with Bush.

With Bush's dad and Bill C. paling around I'm sure Hillary has had many opportunities to interact with W. away from cameras. Since on camera is the only time most people see the big leaders they only get a partial glimpse of the person.

Not saying that Hillary has Bush right and everyone else is wrong but that's the way it is.

[leesa]

26. She makes me sick. He's a fucking war criminal you irresponsible fool.

She is completely out of touch with reality...is this what a trained whore says for Rupert Murdoch's dollars?

[Seabiscuit]

67. She's the Paula Abdul of the Democratic Party.

[hwmnbn]

77. bwahahaha.......

:rofl:

thanks, that woke me up!

[Seabiscuit]

115. You're welcome.

Among DU'ers she also gets Paula Abdul's confidence vote - about 6%.

[roguevalley]

141. I could never look at him and say anything nice. If you find what she

did acceptable, then consider if they had asked her to say something nice about Anne Coulter. Same thing. THey are both blood drenched psychos without any recommends and this is more bullshit from her. Fuck her if she wants my vote and I quote the luxuous Mary Cheney.

[pnwmom]

143. Yeah, right. She's a "blood drenched psycho" just like Coulter.

And you're a fan of Mary Cheney.

I hope you're dealing with your hostility issues in a positive way.

[roguevalley]

158. first of all, I am not a fan of Mary Cheney. Obviously, you miss the point

of my comment. I loathe Mary Cheney. And secondly, I am entitled to my opinion and to hell whether you like it or not. When Hillary Clinton is wrong, she's wrong. If you can't deal, that's your problem.

[pnwmom]

165. There are better approaches than vitriol. Why copy that?

[roguevalley]

175. so, if i disagree with hillary, its vitriol? Forgive me. I thought it was

my entitled opinion.

[pnwmom]

178. "Blood drenched psycho" isn't vitriol?

[pnwmom]

27. The only thing Bush has is an ability to charm some people.

And to make the rest of us want to vomit.

[Notoverit]

44. %I don't buy the "charm" BS- the emperor's clothes like the bass/flounder

[pnwmom]

45. Just curious if you read past the subject line?

[RedG1]

28. charm and charisma?

support for New York?
it took The Decider 3 days to visit Ground Zero after 9/11...

and today they announce Rupert Murdoch will host a fundraiser for Hillary?

it's like some time warp...

in the words of Marvin Gaye "What's Goin' On"

[Mz Pip]

29. Not to me.

He's not charming, he's disingenuous. He's not charismatic, he's delusional as are those who find him charismatic.

He may be personable when he needs to be BUT BIG FUCKING DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's incompetent!

I don't care if my president is charming or charismatic. I want good government. I want competent leadership.

I'm getting real close to just telling Hillary to shut the fuck up. Who the hell does she think will vote for her in the primary?? She is alienating the base big time. Earth to Hillary: Repugs don't vote in Dem primaries.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[rusty charly]

51. charming, charismatic...

While President George W. Bush travels around the country in a last-ditch effort to sell his Iraq war, White House aides scramble frantically behind the scenes to hide the dark mood of an increasingly angry leader who unleashes obscenity-filled outbursts at anyone who dares disagree with him.

“I’m not meeting again with that goddamned bitch,” Bush screamed at aides who suggested he meet again with Cindy Sheehan, the war-protesting mother whose son died in Iraq. “She can go to hell as far as I’m concerned!”

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7267.shtml

Bush flashes the bird, something aides say he does often and has been doing since his days as governor of Texas.
Bush, administration aides confide, frequently explodes into tirades over those who protest the war, calling them “motherf*cking traitors.” He reportedly was so upset over Veterans of Foreign Wars members who wore “bullsh*t protectors” over their ears during his speech to their annual convention that he told aides to “tell those VFW assholes that I’ll never speak to them again if they can’t keep their members under control.”

White House insiders say Bush is growing increasingly bitter over mounting opposition to his war in Iraq. Polls show a vast majority of Americans now believe the war was a mistake and most doubt the President’s honesty.

“Who gives a flying f*ck what the polls say,” he screamed at a recent strategy meeting. “I’m the President and I’ll do whatever I goddamned please. They don’t know sh*t.”

Bush, while setting up for a photo op for signing the recent CAFTA bill, flipped an extended middle finger to reporters. Aides say the President often “flips the bird” to show his displeasure and tells aides who disagree with him to “go to hell” or to “go f*ck yourself.” His habit of giving people the finger goes back to his days as Texas governor, aides admit, and videos of him doing so before press conferences were widely circulated among TV stations during those days. A recent video showing him shooting the finger to reporters while walking also recently surfaced.

[johnnyrocket]

31. Something good to say about Bush? He didn't pee on himself...

...today, at least.

[Sinti]

32. I was thinking that perhaps Hillary needs a dictionary, but

Perhaps I was using the wrong definition.

charm (n): An action or formula thought to have magical power.

[Kenergy]

33. That does it...I'm not voting for her

I'm sorry but I won't tolerate a spineless dem candidate.

[pnwmom]

144. Are you saying you won't vote for her in the primary, or in the general?

Because there's a huge difference.

[msanthrope]

34. You know, She's saying this while she sharpens her knife......

It's an old Big Dog trick. Smile, compliment the person, while you feel along their back for the soft spot.

Bill used to do this, with great aplomb.

[Placebo]

36. Yup!

It's an old Clinton tactic.

[951-Riverside]

37. ROFL!

Good stuff pacoyogi :rofl: ...ah wouldnt that have been nice if it were true.

[Mr_Spock]

41. Talons!! She's sharpening her talons!!

She's an American eagle and she's going to carry her prey off into the woods - & devour it :rofl:

[pnwmom]

46. Yes! Come on, people, we know he's charming. Tweetie was charmed

and so was most of the mass media. They were all drooling over his flight suit, remember?

What does the word "charming" mean, anyway? A charm is a spell, and Bush has put a spell on many Americans . Just because WE DU'ers were immune to that spell doesn't mean he isn't talented.

Charming isn't necessarily a compliment. Hillary's just stating a fact. He's snowed millions of people with that charm. That's all he's got.

[ShortnFiery]

71. "we know he's charming"

We do? :puke: Nope, like the arrogant frat boys I knew in college, he's anything but charming, i.e., shallow, self-absorbed, petty, vindictive, pompous etc.

BTW and IMO, Tweety is impressed by any manly man ... especially those who weld political power. :P

[pnwmom]

80. Did you read the actual post or just the subject line? Just wondering

[ShortnFiery]

83. Answer: Yes I did ... IMO she's behaving like a pandering dolt. :P IMO

[pnwmom]

84. I didn't think she was saying that SHE was charmed by him, but

that other people are. She was asked to say something good about him, and this response looks to me like damning with faint praise. But obviously, she misspoke because so many people didn't hear her that way.

[pnwmom]

81. The most dangerous devils are the charming ones.

[IndianaGreen]

49. Hillary intends to use her knife against antiwar Democrats

make to mistake about this, she loaths us as much as Biden and Lieberman do.

And therein lie Hillary Clinton's biggest problems. She epitomizes the "insider" label of the early crowd of 2008 Democratic contenders. She's part of the Clinton machine that decimated the national Democratic Party. And she remains surrounded by many of the old consultants who counsel meekness and caution. James Carville, the famed longtime adviser to the Clintons, told Newsweek last week, "The American people are going to be ready for an era of realism. They've seen the consequences of having too many 'big ideas.' "

Meanwhile, pollster Mark Penn, a brilliant numbers guy, has counseled the Hillary team to ignore the party's netroots activists as "irrelevant." (After all, didn't Dean lose?) Little surprise that in late March, the Daily Kos's bimonthly presidential straw poll delivered bleak results for Clinton, with just 2 percent of respondents making her their top choice for 2008.

Hillary Clinton: Too Much of a Clinton Democrat?

By Markos Moulitsas
Sunday, May 7, 2006; Page B01

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/05/AR2006050501717.html

Hillary thinks she can win the war in Iraq. How many more people must die before we accept the obvious, admit defeat, and bring all the troops home?

Centrist Democrats Urge Party Policy With Muscle

By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 10, 2006; Page A04

Democratic hawks said yesterday that their party can win a war of ideas with the Republicans over national security, but only if Democrats move beyond simply criticizing President Bush's policies and convince voters they support strategies to defeat Islamic jihadists.

These centrist Democrats argued that voters are more receptive to the Democrats because of Bush's mistakes in Iraq. But they warned against calls to launch investigations into past administration decisions if Democrats gain control of the House or Senate in the November elections. Instead, they said, Democrats should concentrate on charting alternative policies for fighting terrorism and succeeding in Iraq.

<snip>

Bayh and others spoke at the launch of a collection of essays on national security policy published by the Progressive Policy Institute, the think tank associated with the Democratic Leadership Council. The sponsors challenged Democrats to resist policies advocated by what they called the "non-interventionist left" wing of their party while vigorously challenging what they call the "neo-imperial right" viewpoint of many in the Bush administration.

Yesterday's unveiling underscored again the division within the Democratic Party between elected officials such as Bayh, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.) and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), who have resisted calls for setting timetables for withdrawal of U.S. forces in Iraq, and those such as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.), Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), Sen. Russell Feingold (Wis.) and Rep. John P. Murtha (Pa.), who have embraced such timetables.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/09/AR2006050901485.html

[karynnj]

35. Was that support - the support that required NYC and NYS

to demand the money several times or the support where Whitman said the air quality was ok or the support where he had to be pushed to fund air quality studies.

[Mr_Spock]

38. Oh, isn't politics such a grand sport!!

You have to praise your adversary in order to seem like you're a "good sport" and deserving of his job :D

[ananda]

39. Somebody explain to her..

.. what it means to be a Democrat and put her out of her battered-wife-syndrome misery.

Bush is a psychopathic, insensitive, warmongering asshole who deserves nothing but a trial and conviction as a criminal against the USA and human rights.

sue

[alittlelark]

40. EEEWWWW!!!

I have never been strongly supportive of her .... but DAMN....

Another Leiberman wannabe???

[Notoverit]

42. After 911, W reneged on his promises to NYC - paid 1/2 of the promissed $

and only after a lot of harranguing and the then Secretary of treasury commenting on how NYC is "Jewing them " for money...
I am still shivering from all the support - like having the EPA lie to us about toxic air &al

[IndianaGreen]

43. and Big Dog and Poppy Bush are best pals

and Rupert Murdoch is going to raise thousands of dollars for Hillary's already formidable campaign chest, money that she can use in 2008 to run for the office she feels entitled to.

Haven't we have enough of the Bushes and the Clintons? America doesn't need royal families, far from it!

[pnwmom]

47. "Welcome to my nest," said the spider to the fly. Don't misunderestimate

Hillary Clinton.

[wiley]

48. If this makes it to the news in a big way

Democrats will benefit. People will listen more closely to our ideas, and criticism of the Repukes. Hilary venom is the Kool-Aid that the NewsMax and other right wing wackos drink. Let them spit it up and cramp for several days. Why are people falling for this manipulation? Bush's 29% and falling still think the guy is charming. If we can get them past that to see he's incompetent, and all his advisors and Repuke congressional supporters are truly lobbyist money suckers, they can still "like him" while he and his cronies are ushered out. Some Dem should say something really complimentary about Lizzy Dole. Like her make-over makes her look really special and like a live at home Christian mom. People will get it. People in this country are really really hurting. They don't want to see buzzsaw wars. They just want the Democrats to take their turn and solve some of the many pressing issues that affect their lives.

[reprobate]

50. What's so surprising? Hillary is a DLC Republicrat.

She backed NAFTA and CAFTA, which are responsible for the loss of american jobs.

And the media is touting her as the leader for the 08 nomination.

Personnally I'd prefer a Democrat.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

52. Yeah, and Hitler loved his effin' dogs, SO...friggin'...WHAT...?

..."when the people I represented needed his help, he was there for us..."

WOW, Hillary...was President Cakesucker there for YOU like he was there for the KATRINA VICTIMS? Was it the same kind of "there for you" thing, or something else?

Thanks for sharing, Senator Clinton.

[bbgrunt]

53. I think shes planning to run as a republican. nt

[bling bling]

54. Some people here are making it sound like she licked his boots.

Someone asked her to say something nice about Bush. It might have made us DU'ers laugh if she'd given a tongue in cheek response or refused to say something nice but can you imagine the repurcussions of that type of response from her? Drudge, Fox, CNN, you name it, would have headlined with Hillary's quotes. Then the Republicans would have been all over the place foaming at the mouth at how angry and cold she is.

Her response was fine. It's not *really* a compliment to be "charming" and "charasmatic." And to say she was grateful to him for supporting the state she's a Senator in, isn't exactly smooching his ass.

Gawd I don't even know why I'm bothering to type this. The people here who hate Hillary will never be reasonable about their perceptions, especially those whose arguments against her are simply a cover-up for the real reason they hate her so much -- because she's a woman.

[BlueStater]

55. Yeah, that's it exactly

:eyes:

[bling bling]

56. No.

It's because (despite the fact that she's a solid dem, votes in line with the dem platform the VAST majority of the time) she has an opinion that differs from some of us on the monumental catastrophic life-or-death matter of flag burning and video game violence.

:eyes:

Or it's because she voted for the war. Even though the vast majority of the rest of the dems did too, including Kerry and Edwards. But Hillary always seems to be singled out as though she personally sent the troops to Iraq.

[BlueStater]

57. Kerry and Edwards have apologized

Hillary has not, obviously.

[bling bling]

59. Nice try.

She's been singled out on that issue LONG before they apologized.

[ShortnFiery]

72. I don't cut Kerry or Edwards any slack for THAT vote ...

Many of us who were NOT duped by Colin "My Lai Cover-up" Powell have fully forgiven ANY of them. Yes, they all knew better. But I've held my nose and voted first for Gore, then for Kerry. However, I'll be damned if I vote for another Pro-Corporate DLCer. Not again in this lifetime.

[PassingFair]

155. The vast majority of dems DID NOT vote to pass IWR.

The majority of Dems in the house voted AGAINST IT.

The majority of SITTING Dems in the Senate voted AGAINST IT.

Check your facts.

There were CAVERS, and there were Democrats.

[bling bling]

168. I know the facts.

Your argument of SITTING Senate dems is besides the point, The majority of Dems in the Senate AT THE TIME OF THE VOTE,voted yes for IWR. Your comment about dems in the house was also besides the point, as I was comparing Hillary to her peers.

Here, I'll clarify it for you.

The point: Clinton is singled out for voting yes when the other Dems are not. For example, when's the last time you saw a Harry Reid thread that had 130+ comments about how much everybody hates his guts and how he has blood on his hands etc. etc. due to his voting yes on the war? When's the last time you saw anybody comment on his yes vote for the IWR at all? And he's anti-abortion. But for the most part people here seem to support him.

The irony here is that the same people who hate Clinton but seem to be fine with Reid are the same ones who accuse everybody else of not caring about principles.

[PassingFair]

201. So much for your VAST majority "fact"

The point: Harry Reid IS NOT CONSIDERING A RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY.

He is not likely to be forced down our throats by the DLC
corporate money machine.

Kerry got "singled" out for his ill advised IWR vote too,
when he ran.

Thank you for clarifying things for me. :eyes:

[bling bling]

221. I don't really understand why you're harping on this but,

Touche' on the word "vast". The IWR passed by a vast majority in the Senate. It passed by a majority of Dem's but not a "vast" majority. But even if she was in a minority of senators voting yes, my point is that she gets treated differently than the other senators who vote the same way. She has not announced that she is running for the presidency so that is not a legitimate argument or a justification for the hatred - that's a lame excuse for someone to apply a double standard to her.

Harry Reid is the minority leader. The same principles we expect Clinton to have we ought to expect from him, too -- regardless of whether he's running for President or has anything to do with the DLC or not. Again, I don't understand your justification and reasoning for the double standard on this issue.

I don't think Kerry was ever raked over the coals for his IWR vote like Clinton has been. I can tell you this, anytime Clinton's name is in the headline here, you click on the thread and it's absolutely TRASHED with obscenities and hurling smilies and "FUCK HILLARY n/t" etc. That was never even close to how Kerry was treated around here.

[PassingFair]

222. Maybe it's not just IWR...

And Kerry WAS raked over the coals.
And the majority (I do not say VAST) of
dems representing us now were against
allowing the unwarranted Anglo-American
Invasion of Iraq.

Hopefully, the rest will get a wake-up call
during primaries this year.

And she is a polarizing candidate who stands
no chance of winning a presidential election,
yet the DLC will spend and spend and spend.


And people think NADER split the party..... :eyes:

[IChing]

58. She doesn't lick and her man doesn't suck

But each in their own ways do.

But I don't have proof of that.


Proof is not is.

[BooScout]

61. I understand why she responded as she did....

.....don't worry if other's here don't get it. Most of America is not going to react the way people here react........in fact most of America won't even hear of her remarks or remember them for long.

If Hillary is running (and I think she is)..she does not need to alienate one single voter. By tempering her answer she wins the point.

It does get a little old when people rant on her saying she is unelectable, giving no reason other than it's just a gut feeling.

She's moved to the center for a reason. America in general is to the center and to get elected that's where you need to be. I say this as someone who is left of Dean. I'll give Hillary my vote if she get's the nomination. I would even vote for her in the primaries, except I'm an American living abroad and don't get to add my two cents in that arena.

[bling bling]

62. It's always nice

for me to see posts like yours here on this board so that I know I'm not standing completely alone here on this topic, which is how I usually feel because it's very rare to see any comment on Hillary that doesn't sound like....well, the great majority of the posts on this thread, for example.

[Hardrada]

63. We don't have any fucking center!

Where's the center on abortion? Or the Iraq Incursion?

[pnwmom]

137. We don't have a center on abortion?

How about:

A person who supports a woman's right to choose for herself -- whatever her circumstances are --
BUT
also thinks that most abortions are a sad thing, and would rather not have an abortion herself.

[Oak2004]

152. That's not the center

That's the pro-choice position.

[pnwmom]

217. Then when Hillary takes that position people shouldn't

criticize her for being a DINO

[primavera]

193. Isn't that rather duplicitous?

I mean, if you really embrace the first part of your statement, that women have the right to make their own decisions about their own bodies, aren't you just undermining the integrity of that statement by following it up with the admonition "Oh, but of course it's really sad if you exercise that choice in a particular way and of course I personally would never make the decision I'm telling you you have the right to make!" Isn't that a lot like saying "I have nothing against black people, but of course I'd never want my sister to marry one"? That's hypocritical: you can't tell people they have a right and then judge them when they exercise that right.

[pnwmom]

218. No, it just means "I am not in the position to make the

decision for anyone else, only myself."

[ShortnFiery]

75. "Most of America" is seeing her as a shameless pandering dolt.

Well, all but the power elite Republicans who want to see her nominated so that they can beat our butts in the 08' Presidential Election. Yeah, it's real bright TO SHAMELESSLY kiss ass Hillary - her ambition has gotten in the way of her moral compass. I still do not forgive her for voting us into an illegal war. :puke:

[Andromeda]

182. Nice post.

I wish you'd come back to the US. We need your vote. :)

[BooScout]

203. Oh I can still vote........

It will just be absentee.......My vote never counted in the primaries anyway. By the time they reach Georgia (where I'm from originally) the nominee is already decided. Another screwed up part of the system.

[fshrink]

101. How about:

"He surrounded himself with a very savvy team" or "he has an innate ability for coming across as genuine when he is not" or "he somehow personifies the good old American boy" or "my job is not to say nice things about people but to help move America forward" or any of the thousands of lines that the professional writers who works for her can lay out in 10'? No, this is the spirit of her campaign: rub the right's little ego in an attempt at coming across as the bridge between opposing parties, reconciliatory feature which is generally perceived as a "woman's" ability. Middle of the road, zig-zagging one inch to the right and one inch to the left depending where the wind blows from. She probably thinks that a woman running is "revolutionary" enough. The only problem is that it is exactly the same tactics used by the extreme-right faction who is in power. And, more generally the very questionable idea that to beat your opponent you have to use his means. And more generally still, that ends justify means...

[roguevalley]

164. why is it everyone who disagrees with her and expresses their

emotions about about it haters? I remember that was a line the repubs put out a while ago about dems being 'haters' since they disagreed about bush's shit. honestly. show me where I have to agree with Hillary, put up in silence about her shit and not express an opinion.

[bling bling]

170. I don't think I'm out of line or off-base at all.

Have you read this thread? I referred to them as Hillary haters because that's what they are. And the sheer level of hatred is frustrating to me because there seems to be a double-standard for her. I don't get upset with people who don't support her who are aware of her voting record and who treat the other Senators who vote like Hillary with the same regard. But some of the people who hate her are the same people who give other Dems who do or say the same things as her a free pass. That's why I think there's something behind the hated for those people. And I think it very much has to do with her being a woman. And that is something that is important to me that I point out.

I don't expect people to agree with everything Hillary does or says or never express a negative opinion. But the reasoning (or lack thereof) behind the comments on this thread is, IMO, ridiculous. The context of what she said has been completely blown out of proportion to the point that it's almost mind-boggling. If you are on a political discussion board, it is a helpful to understand to some degree that politics isn't pretty and ideologically driven purists never seem to run (or at least get elected) so her actions are pretty much in line with what politicians must do or say to survive in Washington.

It's not easy being Hillary Clinton. Politics is difficult enough but every thing she does, everywhere she goes she is met with criticism in the the most vile, ugliest forms. She rarely gets credit when she deserves it. People despise her on both sides. But she has persevered, and she has a voting record that is highly representative of the people she is supposed to be representing.

[roguevalley]

173. Of course its your opinion same as it is mine. I don't have to support

her and neither does anyone else when she does things that violate my personal code. It isn't a tough code either. I don't hold your views in disrepute. You can love hillary. You can do whatever but anytime someone has a beef with her, they get slain. Your view of my reasoning and other's as well is your opinion. I guess since we don't support her for very good reasons, our reasoning is bad. That's your opinion and you are entitled. But don't call us hillary haters because we find some of her actions repugnant and self-serving.

[progressivebydesign]

209. Amen on that. Can't stop the Hillary haters here.

I'd almost think that they're.. gasp.. not what they seem at all. Because they SURE spend way too much time attacking Hillary, just like.. well.. just like some other people we've heard of who spend all their time attacking Hillary.

[Vidar]

60. She and McCain might as well ride together on the campaign.

[Chomskyite]

64. Who cares?

It's her opinion of the idiot's personal affect.

Does anyone in here doubt she'd push for universal health care?

[MindPilot]

121. Will she push for universal health care?

That depends on how much money the insurance and pharmaceutical companies give her.

Like most other "elected" officials, she represents corporations, not people. Ok, some people, the really rich ones.

[Seabiscuit]

65. Charm? Charisma?? Affable??? Good Company????

Oh,

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[Zhade]

68. "I was very grateful to him for his support for New York"

Yeah, tell that to the relief workers DYING OF LUNG CANCER, you useless waste of space!

FUCK Clinton.

[hyphenate]

70. It's the only thing

that explains the asshole's popularity, isn't it? Here we are faced with the worst president and the worst congress ever, and he's still got some rating; even if it's poor now, he's managed to skate along fairly well even though many of us knew he was crooked even BEFORE the election.

[Minnesota Libra]

74. OK, so he helped NY, big deal, he hasn't done anything else tho. nt

[pnwmom]

147. She IS the Senator representing NY, which is STILL extremely vulnerable

to attack. In her role as a Senator, should she be offering gratuitous insults to the President?

[fshrink]

194. And how exactly did he "help" NY?

By mounting a first photo-op of the Iwo Jima type, battle-dress and all, weeks after the fact?

[democrank]

76. Maybe she meant to say laughable instead of affable.

This is an example of the pandering Democrats endure when we accept an "any port in a storm" approach in choosing our national leaders. Suck-ups are called diplomatic and sell-outs are hailed for bipartisanship. With few exceptions, the end result is a national party filled with Neocrats who have strayed so far from old Democratic Party principles that there`s only a hair`s breadth difference between most of them and Republicans. Hillary gave the same answer as would have been given by any member of the feckless White House Press Corps.

Given the horrific mess in Iraq and the lies that sent us there, the destruction of our civil liberties, the national debt, secret torture planes, Diebold and the nasty tricks preventing elected Democrats from even having a voice in Congressional matters, "willing to talk" isn`t what would come to mind if I was describing Mr. George Bush.

[Demeter]

79. I Shouldn't Have Eaten Just Before Reading This

Senator, Didn't your momma ever tell you that if you couldn't say something nice, don't say anything at all? Certainly, don't make up things!

[mod mom]

85. There are no votes for Hiliary in my houselhold + w my friends. I can't

imagine she can pull thaat much support from the pugs to make up from the progressive vote that she will not get. It's all about selling your soul for $ with the DLC.

[Mr.Green93]

86. Wonder if they have done it.

Hillary is much finer than that pig pickles.

[Vinca]

87. From what I've read, the Boston Strangler had charm and charisma. nt

[Media_Lies_Daily]

88. Major BARF. This will come back to haunt her in 2008.

[corporate_mike]

132. she's hoping to pick up some of Bush's supporters

[Media_Lies_Daily]

145. Gee...I never would have thought of that.

[Canuckistanian]

89. Ted Bundy had charm and chrisma, too

That's how he managed to slaughter so many trusting women.

[DrZeeLit]

91. Completely. Lost. It. (among other things... it = my vote) n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

92. Really Hillary? Cause he doesn't come across that way on TV

On TV he comes across as an arrogant, self-centered, buffoon.

[BigDDem]

95. Holy shit

Let the Hillary bashing begin.

Did I miss the "if she's the nominee Ill vote for Nader" posts?
That always works out well.

[Javaman]

96. Pandering to the right, takes oh so many forms. sorry hillary, you

lost my vote a looooooong time ago. But then again, she is a former repuke so should we be surprised by this gooey candy comment about that asshole*?

[Sugar Smack]

97. I've got your "charm and charisma" RIGHT HERE, Hillary-->

[ramapo]

102. Gag me

This may be, no I'm sure it is, true. These are Bush's only qualification to be president. The sad thing is it is all that it took. Americans value charm and charisma over qualifications any day.

[cmkramer]

104. So what?

Ted Kennedy said basically the same thing on LARRY KING LIVE not too long ago. It doesn't mean a thing.

Tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan got along like a house afire in private but they still opposed each other mightily. In today's atmosphere, lefties would be calling for Tip's ouster on the premise that he was a DINO or something.

[pnwmom]

108. Exactly. It's called "damning with faint praise." Asked to say something

good about Bush, she came up with the obvious statement that he is able to influence a lot of people through his people skills. That's what charm is.

[zann725]

107. "Charm?!" "Charisma?!" :puke:

Sorry, Hil...for that comment alone, I'll just say "NO" if and when you run in '08, as Poppy's newest "daughter."

[BigDDem]

111. You tell 'em!

OK Hillary, here's the game plan. If asked..dont say anything nice about your opponent and make a sharp turn left. America LOVES that, that's a sure fire way to win an election!!!

[cedahlia]

110. This is not necessarily a nice compliment!

"Charm" and "charisma" are qualities that sociopaths often posses. (Think about this: Aren't some of the most vile, unethical, and even violent people on earth actually often described as having been "charming" and "charismatic." Those qualities are what suck victims in so the sociopath can use and abuse them.

Hillary is a smart women. She may have chosen her words carefully here. It's not like she said he was a kind, good man with a compassionate heart.

Anyway, that's just my take on it!

[pnwmom]

138. I strongly agree with you.

[AzDar]

112. I really shouldn't have perused this 'til AFTER breakfast...ugh. n/t

[LandOLincoln]

113. Look, all of you who're howling for Hillary's scalp...

Molly Ivins, who grew up with Junior, has said essentially the same thing many, many times: that one-on-one, he's a very likeable man.

So are we all going to howl for Ivins' scalp now? (Not such a bad idea, come to think of it, but in Ivins' case there's a much, much better reason for it: she went on C-Span a month or two ago to express her disgust and unhappiness with ALL Democrats, with the possible exception of Russ Feingold, though she didn't have much good to say about him either. Talk about damning with faint praise...)

[Sapere aude]

114. He is evil, no matter how likable he is. Probably Hitler was likable to

some folks.

BTW, don't forget to vote for Hillary no matter what she stands for if she is the candidate. We must win at all costs. To hell with what we stand for.

[BigDDem]

122. Nader! Nader! Nader!

5th times the charm!!!!

[Seabiscuit]

116. Cindy Sheehan met Junior one-one one and didn't find him "likeable".

She found him cold, aloof, detached and utterly uncaring.

[BlueStater]

125. Who the hell could possibly find him likable?

I didn't care for him even before 9/11 and when I wasn't really interested in politics. He's always been to me an empty, shallow opportunist.

His dumbass smirks and antics aren't likable. They're irritating and embarrassing.

[pnwmom]

149. Did you catch her recent column about Hookergate? So funny.

[roguevalley]

160. Molly Ivens is a columnist. She isn't one of 100 votes that can

affect you and me forever. I don't want fucking ambiguity. I want certainty. That is the biggest bitch about our party on this forum. Check the threads. The Dems not having a spine, not being clear, not standing up to fat butt EVERY TIME. Now we have to excuse an Iraqi war supporter who is having a fund raiser with Rupert Murdoch and kissing bush's ass when she could have said something TRUE. Please. The reservations people feel are justified to them and NO ONE has the right to argue otherwise.

[pnwmom]

166. "No one has the right to argue otherwise." Of course everyone is entitled

to free speech and to argue their point of view.

[roguevalley]

174. Then argue without calling someone who has another opinion

a hillary hater. Agree to disagree without invective. That is what I am arguing.

[pnwmom]

177. I am only referring to people who "spew invective" as Hillary haters.

It's perfectly possible to strongly disagree with her and not be a hater. For example, I would say that the person who called Hillary a "blood drenched psycho" is a Hillary hater. And I'm sure that person would agree.

[progressivebydesign]

210. Thank you. I've read Molly Ivans saying that charm thing before, too. n/t

[DebbieCDC]

119. Charming???? Charisma?????

Is she off her meds??????????? I was never a Hillary fan before, but if it's possible I'm even less so now.

[meow2u3]

120. That's how Bush was able to con Congress

and half the country into appeasing him--by charming them at first, and if that didn't work, by threatening war and other (false calls of) terrorist activities!

[Harper_is_Bush]

126. He does have charm and charisma

don't let partisanship blind us from the truth.

[LeftHander]

127. MmmMwauh...MMMuuuWah kiss kiss kiss...SMmmooootch....

The sound of a political butt being kissed.

But no:

Reporter: Ms. CLinton how do feel the president has done with the prescription drug plan?
Hill: The President has a lot of charisma and is quite likable.
Reporter: And what about Iraq and WMD's?
Hill: Yes there too the President is charismatic and likeable.
Reporter: How about his stance on environmental issues...?
Hill: there too...lots of charisma and affability.
Reporter: Abu-Ghraib?
Hill: lots of charisma
Reporter: Gas Prices?
Hill: Likeable and charming to the end
Reporter: Iran?
Hill: As charming as always

[neuvocat]

128. Although I cannot vote against her now

I might as well take my vote out on Diane Feinstein. She's cut from the same cloth. The less there are of people like that in the Senate the better.

[pnwmom]

139. That's really brilliant. You're going to vote against Feinstein because

of something Hillary said?

We need a Democratic majority in the Senate, and if you're not going to support the incumbant Democrat in a general election why are you even here?

[neuvocat]

154. You got it.

Feinstein and Clinton both voted in favor of the war and the rhetoric they're both using to justify it is nearly word for word.

Yeah, we need a democratic majority. We don't need centrists.

[roguevalley]

159. because its a free forum? because it isn't a place where you have

to goose step together? Because I was under the impression that you could have your own opinion and express it, at least until I entered this thread.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

146. That makes absolutely NO sense.

[Emillereid]

129. What's wrong with this woman -- I swear she gets up every day

with the intention of turning me and other progressive (REAL) democrats off! Has she no shame. She's still a Goldwater 'girl.'

[genieroze]

130. Oh gawd, I'm going to hurl.

:puke:

[lumpy]

133. I don't trust Hillary Clinton's judgement.

If she believes Bush has charm and charisma then she is poor judge of character. For Pete's sake her hubby is the one with charm and charisma. I see nothing charming about an adult who picks his nose and makes ridiculous faces; nothing charismatic about an adult who can't talk straight and cracks juvenile jokes regarding serious subjects. Good grief.

[SaveElmer]

134. The fact that this thread has 133 posts so far...

Criticizing Hillary for saying the exact same thing others have said - including Ted Kennedy and Molly Ivins

And the fact when ASKED to name one thing positive about W...this is what she came up with...pretty damning praise for a Preident in the 6th year of his administration.

Yet the childish Hillary haters here will pass up no opportunity...no matter how lame, to spew their bile!!

[LandOLincoln]

136. Childish is right.

This is one of those threads that causes me to doubt the median age of DUers is much over, say, 17... :evilgrin:

And no, I DO NOT support HRC for president, but I will certainly vote for her if she wins the nomination.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

148. My, my, my....speaking of "childish".

[pnwmom]

150. Pretty depressing, isn't it?

[SOS]

191. Speaking of depressing....

JERSEY JOLT FOR HILLARY
By DEBORAH ORIN

March 21, 2006 -- WASHINGTON - The Garden State spells big trouble for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who gets clobbered in 2008 New Jersey test runs by Republicans Rudy Giuliani and Sen. John McCain, a new poll shows.

Giuliani slams Clinton in New Jersey 53 to 39 percent and McCain wallops her by 54 to 39 percent in the Quinnipiac University poll.

The poll could fuel Democratic doubts about Clinton because Democrats have been winning there. In his losing 2004 bid, John Kerry comfortably beat President Bush in New Jersey 53 to 46 percent.

Clinton gets clobbered despite the fact Bush is now very unpopular in New Jersey, with 65 percent of Garden Staters turning thumbs-down on the president.

Both McCain and Giuliani beat Clinton among women as well as men but she's weakest with men, losing to McCain by nearly 2-1 among men.

The March 8-14 poll surveyed 1,147 registered voters and has a 2.9-point error margin.

Clinton can take Murdoch's money and support Bush's War to her heart's content. She will never be the President, if she loses a state like NJ by 14 points.

[DoYouEverWonder]

156. Sorry but I prefer my politicians

to have a functioning spine.

[Cookie wookie]

140. Excuse me. Do we say mass murders are charming?

Are we grateful to them for reducing the surplus population? Do we have "good personal relationships" with them.

She is in no way, no shape, no form any kind of human being I would want to have anything to do with, much less vote for for anything.

She disgusts me with all her lovey dovey support for evil incarnate.

If she's trying to be popular with that crap, doesn't she read the poll numbers. Hey Hillary, get a clue. You're in the wrong club if you want to win any political office.

I used to admire her so much. Maybe she lost her mind and morals after being in Washington and having to go through what she did -- her morals and ethics just couldn't hold up to the anger and resentment she must have picked up (and held on to). Guess I'm trying to play internet psychologist, but she has literally gone to the dogs. Very sad.

[Harper_is_Bush]

185. Excuse me, but did she say she's grateful for the war?

And as a matter of fact often mass murderers are called charming. Sometimes a spade is a spade, and if you don't have the courage to call it that then you do yourself a dissservice.

[fshrink]

195. Hey! She's got charm and charisma! nt

[Raine]

151. Hillary must be smoking crack

that's the only reason I can think of for her saying something so ridiculous. :crazy:

[tabasco]

157. Y'er doin' a heckuva job, Clintie !

I hope the People of New York think so too! :mad:

[Hardrada]

161. She undoubtedly thinks Robert Mugabe

is the soul of wit. And don't even get her started on Islam Karimov!

[choie]

163. His SUPPORT for NY? This NYer says: Fuck you, Hillary. Fuck you.

I can't believe my ears. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, Hillary Clinton. For many things of course, but especially for perpetrating the fraud that Bush was "supportive" of NYC after 9/11.

Tell me, Senator Sycophant. Does that support include ordering the EPA to outright LIE about the environmental hazards at Ground Zero? Does that support include withholding/revoking millions of dollars in relief? Does that support include utterly ignoring the warning signs that a disaster was heading our way, or joking that the first crash into the WTC was the job of a "really bad pilot," or trying to stonewall the investigation into this nefarious attack, or launching an evil war that makes a repeat of 9/11 more likely rather than less? My mind reels at how anyone, much less a Democrat supposedly acting as an advocate for NY, could ever call Bush supportive of this city when it was brutally wounded thanks in large part to his negligence and later malfeasance.

Christ, how I regret my having voted for you in your first senatorial campaign. But I swear, you'll have to be running against Karl Rove himself before I cast another vote in your direction.

[pnwmom]

167. Considering how vindictive Bush is, I think Hillary has no choice but

to avoid unnecessary, gratuitous insults. Have you considered how he could take that out on New York?

[Dervill Crow]

169. He's probably very charming when he wants to be.

It's certainly not like Hillary said he was smart or competent or a decent human being.

I agree with the OP who said she'll be kicking herself tomorrow for her answer. She'll probably be sorry she said he was supportive after 9/11, because he was worse than useless then, but maybe she was just caught off guard. :shrug:

[pnwmom]

179. It must be awfully hard to know that every sentence you utter is

going to be sliced and diced and then run through the spin machine.

[pnwmom]

171. What Hillary did NOT say

This, in part, is what she said:

"He is someone who has a lot of charm and charisma. . . "

She acknowledged that * has the ability to charm people. She did NOT say that he charmed her.

Who can disagree that he can charm people? That's part of why so many Americans voted for him and against their own self interests.

[neoblues]

187. Regardless... That She Said it...

Makes most of us want to puke. That George W. Bush may have charmed, or should I say "fooled", a large number of small minded, short sighted, dull witted people doesn't mean that a leading Democrat--at this late date needs to say anything that supports Bush's dishonest public image. That she was only asked to say one nice thing, about someone who deserves to have nice things said of him about as much as malaria needs something nice said about it, but outdoes herself by saying, of all things, this?

It's a free country. She can say what she wants. She is a politician, and used to saying whatever she thinks will please. She's human and capable of saying something she may or may not feel which, alas, doesn't please everyone. However, it didn't seem to occur to her, in this case, that she was saying something that naturally offended many other Democrats (those who are of the opinion that George W. Bush is revolting and is about as charismatic as case of tinea cruris (or vulvovaginal candidiasis). Actually, it may be quite telling and give us some idea of how different relations between wealthy politicians, regardless of party, may be from the view from the base.

The thought to say Shrub is charismatic probably wouldn't have even occurred to her unless, on some level, Dubya had indeed "charmed" her, personally. With the buddy-buddy relations of her husband and Bushy the Elder, there is the sense that something strange is going on here. I will grant that she did indicate a reason he'd pleased her--that he'd come to help her constituency, however, such was both his "duty" and also provided much desired "photo-ops", so we could hardly say he did this out of some real concern or humanity (which his covering up of associated 9/11 details certainly ruled out).

Anyway, whatever... many of us just found this to be akin to giving aid and comfort to the enemy combined with exasperation that she would even think this pathetic excuse for a human being, sorry self-centered little Napoleonic Presidential pretender... was "charismatic" (regardless if it's true to some percentage of the Republican minions out there, or anyone else for that matter). Perhaps some will forgive it as a personal difference of opinion, others may forgive it as an absent minded verbal gaff, and yet others don't care. Others may simply forget as it fades into the past. Some, whose opinions of her having been altered, may neither forget nor forgive. Whatever happens happens.

As for me, I don't see Hillary as being particularly good for the Party (in terms of future Presidential possibilities)--such adaptable ideals, centrist tendencies and naked ambition don't appeal. To hear her say such a thing merely strikes me as counter-productive and perhaps a little annoying (given that she's a leading Democrat). Nothing more, though the uproar is hardly surprising.

[henslee]

180. Charm and Charisma are the names of two pole dancers at my local

strip club.

[Festivito]

181. Nice slam. CONs hate idea of being for a populist prez.

Kind of like saying, "nice robe" to a judge.

She's not perfect, no one is, but she's better than any RepubliCON.

[Dervill Crow]

186. LOL - n/t

[Iniquitous Bunny]

188. Note to Hillary: please find your backbone.

I don't understand her anymore.

Note to all Democrats: stop caving in order to appear more affable. IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!

[mainer]

189. Hillary is actually correct, I think

I've never met GWB, but I've talked at length to a very insightful person who spent a few hours with him during a flight to Washington. And this man (who is absolutely opposed to Bush's policies) had to concede that, one on one, Bush is indeed a charismatic and charming guy. That's how Bush got where he did. He charmed folks with his folksy humor, ably hiding the fact he's a moron.

[midnight]

190. personally he may be charming and charimatic,but that is not what the rest

of us have witnessed.

[Julius Civitatus]

192. Someone tell Hillary that Chimpy's approval is at 31%

She doesn't have to behave anymore as if we were in the runup to Iraq.

What a weasel!

[Jacobin]

196. That pretty much does it for me with with Hillary

:thumbsdown:

Praising a tyrant is not my idea of what an opposition leader should do

[lumberjack_jeff]

198. Maybe he's okay so long as you stay off the furniture.

Cha-DEES-ma. Sorry, I'm channeling Fez.

[goclark]

199. What she said was perfect to me

She said, " Instead of saying he is dumb,an idiot and a fool ~I will look out a bit for my people in New York."

I will not beat her up for that.

Democrats should not chop up their own,especially the wife of Bill Clinton!

[superconnected]

200. Ted Bundy had charm and chrisma too.

[Demeter]

202. Hillary Needs Glasses and a Hearing Aid

Let Laura put the lipstick on her personal (male chauvanist) pig, Hillary's got her own husband.

[Jon8503]

204. Will not vote for Clinton, hope there is an alternative N/T.

[CONN]

205. Hard to believe I once supported her...

She lost me with her Iraq war support.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

206. Remember Rev Jim Jones and his charisma and charm?

[bliss_eternal]

214. Amen to that, sister!

:hi:

[Robbie Michaels]

207. Did someone ask her today...

if she wants to rethink her opinion?

[progressivebydesign]

208. You're jumping at a chance to trash Hillary.. but you're wrong.

Hello??? Anyone out in this thread that is intent on attacking Hillary's comments want to tell me HOW Bush enough votes to get the election close enough to steal?? Was it his foreign policy experience? Successful government experience? Hmmm... what could it have been? How about Reagan? Was it his incredible leadership skills? Foreign policy experience? Ummm.. what could it be?? WHY would normal, reasonably intelligent people VOTE for those dweebs???

CHARM AND CHARISMA. We may think that Bush is the biggest asshole this side of the Atlantic, but he charmed the freakin' press corp during the campaigns, he charmed a lot of voters and others. Many people around him, not Republicans, say that he's fun to be around. Bush gives off that "great guy to have a beer with" vibe. You can see it in his facial expressions... when he acts 'cutesy' for the cameras, as though he's used to being the charming one.

I cannot fault Hillary for this. If she has a decent relationship with him, as she must because Bill doesn't hate him, either, then that's her perogative. Lots of people are charming and charisma, a few serial killers come to mind.

[TankLV]

211. Hitler loved dogs. How fucking charitable of her.

Giving aid and comfort to the ENEMY again, I see!

Has anyone seem my pendulum? It's supposed to swing back here any minute I've been told!

Pendulum? Anybody see a pendulum?

[Harper_is_Bush]

224. What would you have her say when asked to compliment Bush?

"Oh, there's NOTHING nice I can say about him" like a petulant little twerp?

Give your head a shake.

[TankLV]

225. No - THAT IS EXASTLY WHAT YOU SAY TO A FUCKING LIAR AND COWARD!

Someone with BACKBONE! not a sniveling COWARD ASSLICKER AND APPEASER like some here!

If you feel the need to say something nice about these BASTGARDS - EVIL TRAITOROUS BASTARDS -

JUST KEEP YOUR GODDAMN MOUTHS SHUT!

[Harper_is_Bush]

226. Well, I think achieving power requires some intelligence.

You think differently.

[iconoclastNYC]

213. I'm a NYer who is voting against her for Senate in primary

But i think this was a very skillful and honest answer.

[ProudDad]

215. And Hitler was a non-smoking vegetarian

What the fuck?

Clinton's a suck-up, corporate lawyer... She's warped from the get-go.

[dailykoff]

219. Was she wearing a blue dress?

She's nuts.

[Godspeed_Democrats]

223. She knows the rePuBlics own the voting

machines and wants to het in their good graces. That is what it seems to me.