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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:35 AM
Original message
Democrats to propose eliminating gas tax for 60 days
Democrats are set to introduce a measure that would create a "federal gas tax holiday" by eliminating the federal tax on gas and diesel for sixty days, RAW STORY has learned.

The measure, proposed by Sen. Bob Menendez (D-NJ), would reduce the cost of gas by $0.184 per gallon and the cost of diesel by $0.244 per gallon. The move, aides say, will provide $100 million dollars per day in relief.

Democrats say the money will be made up by cutting six billion dollars in tax breaks to oil firms. Currently, the money from the federal gas tax goes to the Highway Trust fund.

Democrats are also working on an amendment that would give federal authorities more power to investigate price gouging, aides say. The measure could be introduced by Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA), who is examining the idea.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Democrats_to_propose_cutting_gas_tax_0425.html
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Who wants to bet...
That gas retailers will not lower their prices, but just keep the extra money?
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Who wants to bet the oil men in the WH will have a shit fit?
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Bingo. (NT)
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Gas "retailers" are not making money off of high gas prices.
It is the companies that supply gas stations with fuel that are make money. You are targeting the wrong part of the equation here.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Let me rephrase...
Retailers will continue to collect the tax, even though they will not be required to turn it over. Whether they keep the money or are forced to turn it over to Big Oil is a different matter. My point is that the consumer will see absolutely no benefit from such a "tax holiday."
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The Retailers ARE Big Oil
http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/PrintFriendly?oid=oid%3A25274

The notion that gas station owners are taking advantage of Katrina and Rita or any other disaster ignores the fact that dealers don't really have the freedom to set their own prices as they once did. This, too, is by design--as numerous lawsuits and media investigations have chronicled, the major oil companies have effectively taken control of the pump price since the mid-1980s by driving their own independent service station dealers out of business en masse (especially in high-volume urban areas) and replacing many of them with company-owned stations that set the base pump price for everyone else. The few remaining independents often pay higher-than-average wholesale costs yet must still keep their prices in line with the BPs, Exxons and Shells, or lose customers.

..

And when supplies are short, the independents are the last to get a delivery. One distributor, who declined to be identified, says that terminal operators in Greensboro shut off supplies last week in anticipation of higher prices in the aftermath of Rita. Not surprisingly, the major branded stations had no trouble getting gas.
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Threedifferentones Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
68. A gas tax would save consumers at least some money
I don't think many local gas retailers meet to set prices, so if one station decided to keep the extra money, another would just undercut him and get ALL of the business. Who isn't willing to go across the street to save 10 cents a gallon? Everyone is, so unless the retailers started fixing prices at local levels, the price would go down noticeably.

But is there any chance that this will actually be passed anyway?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. No Such Thing As Retailers Any More, Increasingly
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 12:10 PM by Crisco
Most supply companies have bought back the retail stations and don't allow independent gas station owners with their product, or when they do, it's at a price the independent can't be competitive with. BP did a buy-back just about 2 years ago, I think. It might have been in Tennessee only, but I doubt that.

In Nashville I've seen prices vary by almost 10 cents from the same retailer in different locations. Exxon/Mobile A charges $2.90 in one location, $2.82 in another.

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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
88. This is incorrect . . .
I have a friend who has purchased several gas stations in the Atlanta area from the distributor selling the distributor's gas. The pricing is the same as the cost for the "corp" stores.
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. That's not what my now rich cousin who is a retailer tells me.
They make out damn good.
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Well they are constantly being investigated for price gouging
IMO, BIG OIL is the larger cause of the problem, but the retailers are making out like the &%$#ing bandits they are as well.
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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
90. The profit per gallon does not change for the retailer . . .
when the price per gallon goes up. The retailers make most of their dollar profits from the sale of non-fuel items (also known as inside sales). The retailers are trying to push as many services on their piece of real estate as they can (car washes, ATMs, dry cleaning pick up/drop offs, etc).
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. The retailers have a set profit...
At a Shell station in Rainier Valley, the grumbling by customers is growing louder.

"They say: 'You guys are too high. You guys make too much money. You guys don't care about your customers,' " said the station owner, who asked that his name not be published.

In fact, "we're not making extra money," he said. "When prices go up, we make less."

That's because he makes a set profit -- about 10 cents per gallon sold -- regardless of price, he said. Customers deterred by higher prices are buying less gas, he said, and if they pay with a credit card, his profits are reduced by the fees he owes card issuers.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/267682_gasprices22.html
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
34. That's true - I talk to the independant station owner nearby
He's a decent guy and he said the exact same thing. They have no control over the disty price they pay and they can only add so much profit and stay competitive as a "cheaper no-name alternative".
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Not to mention, lots of retailers go out of business
because people aren't buying the "extras". The soft drinks, the chips, the car fresheners, the undercoat car washes, the collectible schwag. None of the stuff retailers really make their living from.

It sure ain't the gasoline.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
54. Then why does the price go up before a delivery is made?
I call bullshit.

If "set profit" were true, price would change with each delivery, not daily/hourly.

Just an obvious observation. :shrug:
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #54
70. I guess you'd have to take it up with the station owner
I'm only repeating what the newspaper here reported.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. In this case, PI equals Putrid Iwasaki.
Seattle has the worst two, really one, "major" newspapers for a large city in the country.

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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
62. Why punish ourselves? It's the gas companies, Exxon, et al who
are making windfall profits off this. And they're subsidized by us, to boot.

So, go after the profits AND the tax subsidies.

Removing gas taxes, which pay for roads and government expenses, simply means that we'll inicrease the deficit and reduce spending on OUR needs.

Don't punish the taxpayer!
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
63. just what i was thinking
then in 60 days, prices goes up to compensate for the 'new' taxes.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
77. I'd bet you would be right
No way we see the savings.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
81. not much help
when the price of gas goes up by the same amount each week

and after the 60 days?? Big hit at the pumps that negates the "savings"

meanwhile - the GOPers want to give us each $100.00 to shut us up

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1153AP_Oil_Taxes.html?source=mypi

Senate Republicans advocate sending $100 rebate checks to millions of taxpayers, and a Democrat is leading the campaign for a 60-day gasoline tax holiday.

Either way, it seems no one in Congress wants to be without a plan, however symbolic, to attack the election-year spike in gasoline prices.

A vote is possible as early as this week on the Senate GOP approach, which calls for $100 rebate checks for taxpayers to cushion the impact of higher gasoline prices. The measure seems unlikely to prevail, at least initially, since it includes a highly controversial proposal to open a portion of Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling.


Folks - this is smoke and mirrors, call it "Petrol-Bismol" to ease the gas pains.

these band-aids aren't going to solve the problem in the long run.

We need real policies/legislation that addresses the problem. We need an energy policy that addresses fuel supplies for the long term - and that means not only gas for cars/trucks - but also for heating and other power needs.
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droidamus2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. typical Republican bull
The $100.00 check tied to ANWR that they know won't pass is an extremely obvious election year spin move. I can hear it now 'The Democrats are taking money out of your pockets. We wanted to give you $100.00 of 'your' money back to help with your gas bills and the Democrats defeated it. The Democrats don't care about you'. Can these people be any more cynical. Besides the fact that if you have more than 1 vehicle that amount of money won't last very long. I think the repugs got a lift from the tax pre-bate they did a few years ago, amazing what people getting a check in the mail does, so they figure they will try it again.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
85. If there isn't enough margin, sure they will keep the change!
What a cash cow they would have!!!
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. Democrats call for tax cuts, Republicans collapse in laughing fit.
Seriously, this will be the AP headline.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. No it will be Republicans refuse to back tax cuts
While Democrats roll around on the floor laughing.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I'm talking about how the AP will present it. n/t
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. I have a better idea... Bill the oil company shareholders for the gasoline
Bill the oil company shareholders for the gasoline.

In other words, tax the stock certificates instead of the gas for (at least) sixty days.

And then introduce a tax on the buying, selling and trading of oil company stocks, bonds, and other securities.

Take that money and put it into a program that provides free solar power panels for low-income housing.



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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. That actually is a beautiful idea! Congratulations... they'll never do it
but it's very practical.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
56. Sweet!
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. We should stick a Bus/Cheney bumper sticker on evey pump.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I like your idea!
:thumbsup:
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
57. LOL!
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
58. *hic* Dup!
Edited on Wed Apr-26-06 09:42 AM by Pacifist Patriot
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
60. Best Idea I've heard in a long time!
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's not really about the tax.
It's an election year and it's about taking the "tax cut party" tag away from the GOP. So the GOP can't argue with it or they sound like they've been talking out their asses when they mention reducing taxes. And part of the deal is raising taxes on the oil companies. So the GOP is in a rock and a hard place. Either go against eliminating the taxes and piss off the voters or go with the plan and piss off their money pit.

Sounds like a great election year strategy for the Democrats to me.



Liberal bumper stickers
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Sorta like the rock and hard place location we've been in for so long? nt
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
45. Agreed. I think it's a good strategic move. But I'd add...
... that it's not really about raising taxes on oil companies. It's cutting down on corporate welfare, if only just a little.

:hi:
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. What a Crock.
A federal gas tax holiday????

This is exactly the kind of political, political, political move that the Democrats should avoid.

Why?

Because it looks so POLITICAL -- and does nothing to solve the real problem.

There is a supply and consumption issue that the mega-transnational energy corporations are exploiting. Light sweet crude oil production is past its peak. Heavy sour crude is harder and more expensive to refine into gasoline.

See: http://www.earthside.com/earthside/2006/04/oil_is_not_oil.html

Democrats and all good, patriotic Americans should be calling for the Congress to pass and Bush to sign an increase in miles per gallon standards for all automobiles made or sold in the U.S.

The Democrats should be proposing all kinds of incentives for energy efficiency.

But, it is true, nothing is going to help our gasoline supply and demand problem in the short-term.

Only conservation in the medium-term and a crash program to develop alternative energy resources in the long-term will help us.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Agreed!
When the conservatives I discuss issues with hear about this they will laugh.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. You have to admit, however
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 01:37 PM by brentspeak
that the idea of calling for the oil companies' tax breaks to be passed onto the consumers is a great idea that would put the Republicans in a real conundrum.
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worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. I disagree
This move alone is, of course, not enough, but it still has a lot of upside to it. Basically it aims to shift part of the burden of higher gas prices from the consumer to the oil companies. If that isn't populist, I don't know what is. So in an ideological sense it fits the bill of what the Democrats ought to represent, IMO.

Then, when you look at it from a political angle, it is downright ingenious. The Republicans will have to vote for it if it does manage to make it to the floor, or else they run the serious risk of a major backlash from consumers enraged by high gas prices. But it is a Democratic bill, so people will think to themselves "geez, the Democrats are saving me a lot of money." Big political win there. Plus, after this "gas tax holiday," will they then revert to severly undertaxing big oil? One of the major reasons for this bill, I think, could be to sort of sneak more taxes on to the oil industry. When the gas tax holiday runs out, the taxes on the oil industry might continue, unless it is specifically written in to the bill that they are to expire without any possible provision for extension.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. I'm afraid I have to agree with you.
I worked in the industry for three decades, and these sorts of political moves do not concern them at all. In fact, the ONLY move a legislature might make that I saw put the fear of the devil into them was insituting huge WINDFALL PROFIT TAXES.

The very word "windfall" is not heard in the halls of the Great Oil Elite. The sound of the word makes them shudder because it's usually coupled with "profits" and then the really bad one -- "TAX"!

I agree with others who have said this small amount of federal tax relief for a "tax holiday" sounds much better than it really is. Even if it's reflected at the pump, the public won't know it. They can't keep track of such fiscal trickery, and they know much of what they see is smoke and mirrors anyway.

However, with Exxon-Mobile last year raking in the MOST PROFITS of ANY company ever in HISTORY, I think people would understand that an oil company windfall profits tax could really help them.

It's the only thing I can think of that Democrats could propose that would help relieve our pain at the pump in the short run.

I just heard a scary bit of news on TV a little while ago. It seems the increase in gasoline prices has not impacted Americans' buying trends in personal vehicles as we might have expected AT ALL. Yep, contrary even to what Detroit anticipated, SUVs and big trucks (pickups) are still selling like hotcakes. Eight-cylinder vehicles of all types are still in high demand. I thought people would finally wake up, but apparently Americans are determined to stay stupid forever.

It IS the trend set by our Dear Leader, after all....


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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. I prefer Dems let the Bushbots get out of this one on their own.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
48. "Only conservation in the medium-term...
...and a crash program to develop alternative energy resources in the long-term will help us."

Agreed. And how do you suppose we'll get those things passed?

By getting back into power, of course. Not until.

And how do you suppose we'll get back into power?

By beating them at their own game, of course.

Voila. A federal gas tax holiday.

Not a crock at all.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
67. I've been in favor of fighting dirty. So I'm in favor of this.
Of course it's a slimy political trick. And god bless 'em for deciding to pull it off now.

Kick 'em in the balls! Harder!
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. I approve.
why not make a gas tax reduction permanent? Or else, why not have the gas tax drop a nickel a gallon for every nickel rise over some base amount?

Good for the taxpayers, good for the middle class, good for the states (they wouldn't have to lower theirs, and more gas would be used at lower prices)
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. An 8% drop in gas prices? That's not going to make much difference
$3.00 or $2.76....is that really going to make a difference?

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whododayis Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
71. I'll take my 8%. If you don't want yours, send it to me at ......
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. Bad idea! Will leave the locals cash strapped at a time when the
Fed monies are being tossed down the Iraq toilet. And, no one will notice this because either the gasoline stations will continue to raise the prices or keep them the same since no one will really know what the pump prices should be and they will just pocket the difference.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. No doubt that the oil companies might retaliate by jacking up prices
But there is some good that could come out of that, if only the Democrats (or anybody) would have the guts: a call to nationalize the oil industry would find a more receptive public than ever before.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. WTF? Oil firms have been getting $6 billion in TAX-BREAKS?
:wtf:

Somebody please explain to me why Raymond "Jabba the Hut" and his ilk need tax breaks when they're raking in record profits?
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. You sound surprised...

...you didn't know?

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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. That's part of what makes this proprosal a great idea...
... a whole lotta people are going have just the reaction you did! And they'll be asking the same question.

Then the Democrats have to follow through, and show why we need some checks and balances in Congress.

:hi:


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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
72. I heard yesterday it was 17BILLION in tax breaks
to "encourage" them to drill more and to find more oil.. I mean, REALLY !.. That's their BUSINESS..why should the government PAY them to do what they are in business to do? They are NOT in financial trouble and were making huge profits BEFORE the tax cuts, and even MORE now.. It's just another clever way to transfer money from the pockets of the middlers into the pockets of the uppers..

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Let your congressmen pay for your gas,
They've been greased by Exxon.
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. they did it here in georgia after katrina
gov perdue had them pass a tax break on gas for onemonth I think maybe two.
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. seems like bad precedent for an insignifican change. 18cents/gallon?
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 02:08 PM by electron_blue
I'd be more interestd in this if it involved something closer to a dollar a gallon. Like others here, I'm pessimistic that this will actually help anyone in the long run.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. It's doable - what's your alternative?
At least this proposal is feasable and will help us get over the "hump" in prices in the short term.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Here's my alternative....
...Congress should set gas prices permanently at $2.00 per gallon for unleaded gas for the next three years. Then force the oil companies to use their obscene profits to build more refineries and to produce alternative energy programs that will be on line at the end of those three years.

Will that happen? Heck, no. But it's quite a bit better than allowing the oil companies to make even more obscene profits while "helping" us get over the "hump" in prices.
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Yes, that has a better chance of leading to longterm help
And we're only likely to get such "drastic" action pushed through if people are up in arms. A 18.4 cent/gallon taxrelief is only meant to placate the people, not to help them.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Nixon tried to institute price controls
It didn't work out too well. How can Congress set gas prices anyway?
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. I don't like it bcs it's so small.
This will save the average American only about $2.50 a fill up, only about $10/month for an average fill up of once a week. Virtually nobody is going to notice that relief. In the meantime, I predict gas prices will still rise, and be right back up there to make up the difference. They'll do that because people are already paying the higher price, and the oil companies know it and will keep raising prices until we balk, we refuse to buy. Meanwhile, 6 months later, the 18.4 cents tax that was removed will go back on, and we'll be at a higher price than if we never took it off.

As I said, that is a short-term fix only. That will only lead to higher prices because we haven't fixed the main problem. I like the ideas of breaking up the oil monopolies. Or better yet, removing the POTUS who has a major conflic of interest with the oil industry, including going to war to boost oil profits. I'm sure there are better alternatives, hopefully ones that are easier to attain than removing Bush from office.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. There is only 18 cents of fed tax on a gallon? That seems odd
I've often heard the excuse that it a lot of the cost is tax....hmmm

Seems like all kinds of things we have heard before are in fact just the opposite.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1021779
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Here's a breakdown of the cost of a gallon of gasoline...
Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Update
<http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp>

...19% of the total cost of a gallon of gasoline in March 2006 went to taxes, but that was a total of ALL federal, state, and local taxes.

If you round off 19% to 20%, then 20% of the current average cost of unleaded gasoline (approximately $2.95 per gallon) is approximately 59 cents.

So basically, the NeoCons want to tell us that they are willing out of the goodness of their hearts to forgive 18 cents of Federal taxes on each gallon of gasoline while the state and local governments get to keep 41 cents per gallon.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Democrats are neocons?
I thought this was a Democratic proposal.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #41
55. Where do you think the Dems got their numbers? And unfortunately....
...every Democrat currently in Congress is at least a millionaire...they do not represent the interests of the lower 99%.

And yes...some Democrats are clearly NeoCons. Lieberman and Biden are leading examples of NeoCons in the Democratic Party.
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whododayis Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #55
64. higher prices encourage conservation, changing driving habits
if you really want to establish a conservation movement, the price of fuel needs to impact the majority of the country to the point where it crimps their lifestyle in other areas. even conservatives will consider dumping their suv's for hybrids if it means more money in their pockets. if the prices are lowered marginally, especially temporarily it continues to affect the lowest on the economic scale, and those people don't have the same options to change their lifestyle. they often must choose fuel vs. food, fuel vs. medicine, fuel vs. clothing, etc. instead of fuel vs. a fancy restaurant meal or another video game.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
87. That's the Real Reason They Proposed This
To squash the GOP talking points.
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
43. I think it's a fantastic proposal. I really do.
Sure, the $$$ relief at the pump isn't huge. But the political statement is ENORMOUS -- a bit of relief for Joe and Jane Workingstuff (that's us), while reminding voters of the oil company welfare that republicans dole out. It's a great idea!

:applause:



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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
49. i dont like it; the silver lining of the high gas prices is the develop-
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 09:15 PM by madmark
ment of economically viable substitutes. Gas use has substantial external costs (environmental, national defense, and economic) not reflected in the price without the taxes. Also the gas market infrastructure has been defacto subsidized by wars secure supply (Iraq 1 and to some extent Iraq II). The taxes in part serve to correct the market imbalance caused by this subsidy. If anything the taxes are too small and do not reflect the true costs when the external costs are brought back in and the subsidies cut out.

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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Explain, please.
"the silver lining of the high gas prices is the development of economically viable substitutes."

Been seeing a lot of that lately, have you?!
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #51
80. when gas gets more expensive, substitutes for gas get more
economically attractive. Examples are electric, ethanol, and hydrogen vehicles and various hybrids. When any of these substitutes begins to be used in volume economies of scale will kick in, we will have a tipping point, and eventually this fossil fuel use and the negative external costs associated with it will cease. Its a long term process, but eventually it will send gas the way of whale oil.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. "eventually it will send gas the way of whale oil"
Tell that to the mother of four who's trying to figure out how to afford driving her kids to school.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. i never said it didn't suck in the short term for the consumer
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. How good of you to notice.
Let 'em eat cake, I guess.

:banghead:
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
50. What cuts ot tax breaks to oil firms?? Dream on.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Bush's latest joke
HE pushed HUGE NEW tax breaks and subsidies into effect in the energy bill passed last year. Now he is "threatening" to "force" congress to revoke those NEW tax breaks. Just those bushco new tax breaks - not all of the rest of the special tax breaks/cuts given to corps of the size of the oil firms over the past five years... Total fluff - does nothing. Actually - it is an attempt to take the steam out of the "windfall profit taxes" movement that is reigniting up on the Hill.
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
53. An AWFUL idea
This is typical Democratic pandering, a complete lack of backbone and guts.

If anything, gas taxes should be higher and the monies used to build decent mass transit and rebuild our national rail system to replace the third-world system that we have allowed our railways to deteriorate into.

The fact is that Americans must change their energy consumption habits. The only thing that will force a change are higher prices. Witness the 1970s; habits changed, products changed, and in a hurry too.

Now if the Democrats want to go after the oil companies and do something about windfall profits, the obscene package given to the retiring Exxon exec, and the like, then I would applaud. This idea is plain bad.
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whododayis Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #53
65. it's misguided pandering worthy of a "whatever!"
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
59. maybe when commodities traders go on summer vacation...
you'll see the prices drop.
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
61. reasonable, beats the GOP to the punch
and the repeal of the breaks helps to pay for the 'holiday'
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
66. What's to stop the oil companies from raising the price to ..
cover their lost tax break?

I'm against cutting taxes on gas in a country that wastes it like we do. The only thing that will change our consumption habits is high prices. Forcing people to think about their use habits is good for the country. Why not just cut the tax breaks for the oil companies and use the money to cover some of our deficit spending?
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. "Forcing people to think about their use habits is good for the country."
Edited on Wed Apr-26-06 03:26 PM by mac56
Edited.

We can't all afford hybrid cars and new fuel-efficient models.

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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
69. What is the difference between x on 2 months and x/6 the whole year?
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jseankil Donating Member (604 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
73. I actually think a $1 per/g tax should be added on
1 of 2 things would happen

A. The prices will drop because the oil men would fear a large backlash and intense focus would be put on their sick profits.

Or

B. the general public would really start to feel the pain and demand real change in the energy policy. I want oil dependency to be declared a national security issue and $100 billion in funds to be transferred from military spending over to R&D of alternative fuels. This is the best pre-emptive action the U.S. could take in protecting the power position the U.S. current holds in the world.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
76. "But Democrats have no plan! Democrats have no plan!"
So whines our 'liberal' media.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
78. We do NOT need lower gas taxes!!!!!!!! We need every single person
ON THIS PLANET to STOP WASTING ENERGY!!!!!!!! Not just gas, but ALL forms of energy!!!!!!

How many times do I have to scream it: CONSERVE, YOU MORONS!!!!!!!

End rant.
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komuckway Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
79. This is dangerous
This is dangerous because the right will come out and say this proves tax reductions work whenever they are tried.

If the economy doesn't suffer, wait for the cuts to be made permanent, or at least reductions made.

This doesn't bode well for the left in November...tax vcuts will be tied to saving cash, and this will be tied to the Bush tax cuts. With 4.7% unemployment, it's hard ground to knock, and it is a long way to November.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #79
92. They'd merely be displacing the tax...
It will be funded by cutting six billion dollars in tax breaks to oil firms.
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
84. I can't believe this is the best we can come up with...
:shrug:
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cpamomfromtexas Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
86. Why not DIVERT the funds to build ETHANOL plants
Just stopping the tax temporarily will not fix anything, but using those funds to build ethanol plants will.
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