CNN Breaking: Giant C-5 military jet crashes in Delaware (ANG aircraft)

[Cooley Hurd]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/03/c5.crash.ap.ap/index.html (thanks, blonndee! :hi:)



DOVER, Delaware (AP) -- A C-5 cargo plane carrying 17 people crashed near Dover Air Force Base early Monday, state officials said. There was no immediate word on fatalities.

The plane, the military's largest, went down about 6:45 a.m., said Allen Metheny, assistant director in the state Department of Public Safety.
</snip>

CNN has video of crash site - aircraft appears to be in three pieces (forward section intact, but separated from rest of fuselage - no sign of tail section in the video), no flames, escape slide deployed (indicating survivors). My first thought was whether it was carrying HR (human remains, in airline lingo) from Iraq, but from the video, there doesn't appear to be any flag draped coffins spilling from the wreck.

CNN saying injuries, but no fatalities.

[karlrschneider]

1. Gonna need some body work

:eyes:

[Cooley Hurd]

8. My flight instructor hated the term "crash," as well...

[reprobate]

37. I always preferred the term: Unscheduled encounter with earth's surface.

[Ezlivin]

12. They can buff that out

Like John Candy said in "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" after he sideswiped two tractor trailers.

[yellowcanine]

25. Slap a little bondo on it and it will be good as new.

[blonndee]

2. linky here

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/03/c5.crash.ap.ap/index.html

[liberal N proud]

3. PIC

[maine_raptor]

4. Could this have been coming back from Iraq?

Be intersting to see them unload it, Hmmmm?

But glad to see the cockpit is intact and the slide deployed.

[greyl]

7. No, according to NBC

the pilot reported problems just after take-off from Dover AFB and they were trying to land again and came short of the runway.

[HereSince1628]

5. Thanks for the pic...

[Virginia Dare]

6. Well, there's a couple a hundred mil down the commode...

I sincerely hope for the best for those on board.

[Bombero1956]

9. any confirmation

on whether it's a Deleware ANG plane or from another unit. We have the 439th Airlift Squadron based at Westover ARB. They sometimes leave here to land at Dover before heading out overseas. Hope everybody's ok

[Retired AF Dem]

11. Good chance that plane was paid for

before many here on DU was born. I have always been amazed that thing can even get off the ground. Hell of a safety record, if I'm not mistaken this is the third C-5 to crash. One in Vietnam, and one crashed on take off at Ramstein Jan 91.

[Virginia Dare]

16. That's interesting, thanks for the post...

I always like to hear from people who actually know what they're talking about.

any idea what those cost back in the day? How are they being replaced, or do they need to be replaced?

[northzax]

20. they aren't being replaced

it's strange, really, that the two largest planes in the Air Force inventory are also two of the oldest, longest running planes in service. The first was delivered in 1969, and the last in 1989. They are planned to be in service for another 20 years.

oh, and they cost about $170million in 1998 dollars.

on edit: the first c-5 was delivered in 1969, not 1970 as originally stated.

[yellowcanine]

23. Think metal fatique. They may have a great safety record but at some

point all planes have to be retired because of metal fatique. If it is true that the tail fell off that seems like it may be the culprit here. The bad thing is that there may be many more out there just like it that are in the same or worse condition.

[northzax]

28. they are being systematically retrofitted

and there are a lot more older planes in the private sector that have had harder lives than the c-5s.

[yellowcanine]

30. Depends on what is being retrofitted. Tails should not fall off. That

may be a red flag that something is being overlooked if that is what happened.

[enlightenment]

32. Saw the very first one the AF got, at a special air show in Japan

in 70 or 71. They parked it on the tarmac at Yokota and put up staircases -- we all trooped through, going 'ooh, ahh' -- the whole time I was thinking that it was just too damn big to fly and I never wanted to be on one.

[Zech Marquis]

45. I;ve flown in one before

Our flight went from Yokota to Onsan, and let me tel you all, at Osan there was NO straiway car for us :wow: that meant EVERBODY had to use the rather skimpy ladder to climb DOWN, then out the rear ramp. That is one HUGE airp;ne! And imagine living just off the runway at Yokota when one of those bad boys too off..

[unda cova brutha]

40. The B-52 is older

the first one was delivered in 1952, last one in 1961. The current fleet is expected to be operational until 2040. We got our money's worth out of that purchase.

[A HERETIC I AM]

50. They're being retired and the C-17 is the newest transport.

For the first time i noticed several C-5's on the ground at Davis Monthan in Tucson (A huge, "Dry air storage" facility where old military airplanes go to be broken down for spares and scrap) about a year ago as i traveled on I-10. You can clearly see several of them from the freeway, even though the facility is a mile or two north of 10.

Sooner or later they will all be in Tucson and the C-17 fleet will have replaced them all.

A C-17:


A C-5 Galaxy:


The other main jet transport aircraft, the C-141, also being retired:

[Shakespeare]

35. My dad was a flight engineer on C-141s for his entire air force career

He said they all referred to the C-5 as "the Polish lear jet." :7

And you're right; given their size, the safety record is impressive.

[johnfunk]

10. Where the heck did the tail go?

Hope all are OK, amazed that the plane appears so intact despite the front being split off...

[CottonBear]

18. MSNBC said not sure if the tail fell off and then plane crashed on landing

or if the tail fell off because of/during the crash. Apparently, there were problems rights after takeoff and the plane came back around to land and crashed short of the runway. They said the passengers were most likely sitting behind the cockpit. No one is yet sure if the passengers were right where the nose section cracked open (sort of like an egg. )

I hope that no one has died. :(

[underpants]

13. Weird I JUST watched a Mega Machines episode on TLC about that

The Wright Borthers could do their entire flight INSIDE the payload bay on a C-5

[lonestarnot]

14. Oopsie daisy.

[KevinJH87]

15. only the 7th incident

This seems to be only the 7th incident. It has only had 2 fatal accidents which is pretty amazing.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Type=LO-5 - details on all the incidents

[DS1]

17. Jesus, I had such a vivid dream that I was watching a military transport

crash last night.

[benburch]

21. Odd. I had one about a crashing F-111. nt

[gauguin57]

26. I dreamed about a plane crash as well ... mine was a domestic airliner

weird, weird, weird

[Ilsa]

27. Wow. That is amazing.

This has happened to me before as well, but I am sure it was an after-the-fact event, not a premonition. I dreamed I was in a dive suit and flying in a rescue helocopter, heading north, east coast. I found out two weeks later that a friend died when his F-14 crashed off the coast of Va at about the same time. Unfortunately, I had the premonition about his death about 18 months before that.

Do you have a close friend or relative in the military right now?

[DS1]

29. No, but beforehand I had been dreaming my own past in the military

[benburch]

19. No fatalities.

Per WBBM-AM 780 Chicago.

[johnfunk]

33. That's great news

There's a clip at the CNN web site from a HD helicopter cam showing the plane in some detail. You can link to it from their updated story.

A probable cause, according to the story, was an engine flameout.

[benburch]

34. Those are amazingly large engines.

They dwarf the fire equipment there.

[enlightenment]

46. Which kind of begs the question of why did it crash.

It's got 4 engines -- a flameout of one shouldn't have brought it down (speaking only as the child of a 32 year AF vet who flew heavies for SAC - and safely landed more than one flameout during that period. Still, I'm no expert and I'm not trying to cast blame).

[yellowcanine]

22. More evidence of how Bush is over stretching the military. How old

was this damn plane and how much extra service has it had to do that was never planned for a national guard plane? It appears that the tail fell off for Christ's sake. Thank God no one was killed. Add this to the impeachment indictment.

[Ilsa]

24. And the money we need for good equipment, aircraft, etc.

is going where? Halliburton?

[goclark]

31. And to prepare to punish Iran, we are

getting all the propaganda stuff now.

When will they realize that we are no longer the super power cause we are out of influence and or money.

AND, we are HATED all over the world.

[Ilsa]

39. I was listening to today's Clarkcast and there was a story of a

US citizen traveling in Ireland. He wanted to check into a B&B, and the owner asked him specifically if he was a Republican, and the traveller told him he couldn't be paid enough money to vote for GWB. He got the room.

[TheBaldyMan]

49. people don't hate Americans, we hate your government

unfortunately you are right about money and political goodwill, the entire world will breathe a huge sigh of relief when Bushco gets kicked out on it's ear.

[onenote]

36. you clearly have some inside information -- share?

Since you are certain that the plane's crash is a result of the "extra service" its been put through, I'm curious. Which version of the C-5 was this? When did it go into service? How many hours of service did it have? And, for the heck of it, what exactly caused the accident?

Chimpy has done enough to warrant censure and/or impeachment. No need to throw unsubstantiated accusations at him; stick to the stuff we can prove.

onenote

[Retired AF Dem]

38. Good point

Most of the planes in the military have been in service 30 plus years. I can't put the blame on Bush for this one. Next time any of you step on a civilian jet, check out the little plaque connected inside the door jam. You just might want to step off and go home.

[yellowcanine]

51. Note I said "It appears the tail fell off". When planes with otherwise

good safety records over a long period of time crash for no apparent reason on a sunny spring day it raises questions about length of service and maintenance, that's all. This is particularly true for National Guard planes. The National Guard tends to have older equipment for good reason - they aren't supposed to be a combat ready force. Their equipment is intended to be used only in the event of national disasters. I don't know how this plane was being used - what I am saying is it raises questions and put with everything else, yes it is more evidence that our forces are being stretched. I think there is ample evidence over the last couple of years that all is not well with how Bush and Rumsfield have been using the National Guard. The Katrina debacle, while certainly having many other causes, is one example of the peril of misusing the National Guard. Bush and Rumsfield should be held accountable for this as well as for their other crimes.

[Up2Late]

41. More evidence of "media complicity," as of 2:00pm, the U.S. media...

...has "moved on," I tuned in to see what had happened, and they are NOT covering this!

I bet if it was a French Jet that crashed (think Toronto "miracle on the Runway"), I bet they would be covering this.

[onenote]

42. stretching a bit?

The AirFrance jet in Torontohad 300 civilian passengers when it skidded off the runway and caught fire. This was military cargo plane with around 20 passengers that "crash landed". Really no comparison.

onenote

PS (on edit) -- given that no one died, if the media was still covering this balls to the wall, a lot of folks here would (and properly so) be criticizing the media for covering it instead of other news. I don't have access to cable here at work, but CNN.com is leading with the story of 27 dying in storms in the midwest, with the Moussaoui verdict, and the death of nine troops in Iraq. Seems like rational news judgment to me.

[Up2Late]

43. Oh you're right, C-5 jets Crash in Delaware almost every day...

...how boring. :boring: :sarcasm:

Come ON, the fact that nobody died should be even more reason for them to cover this.

If you remember, nobody died in the Toronto runway over-run either.

I've been watching CNN/HLN since it started in the early 1980's (except for the last few years when it became a non-News "news" show), and they alway kept a story like this in the "Update" segment, at the very least, most if not all of the day in the past.

Instead, I tune-in to see this, and they had a "Live" shot of Bush in the dugout in Cincinnati, waiting to throw out the first pitch on the second day of the MLB season. It was several hours after that that I finally saw this story in the "update" segment.

I guess the "live" shot was much more important.:eyes:

[onenote]

44. I'll try again

Toronto: commercial aircraft, 300 passengers, burning jet.Everyone survives
DOver: C-5 cargo plane, 19 passenger, no fire. Everyone survives.

Finally, coverage of opening day first pitch is a given every time it happens. And it happened at around 2 pm; the plane crashed at 6:30 am and by the time I left for work at around 9 it already was being reported that there were no fatalities. Yet you think that should've been the big story five hours later? Sorry, the story was done. Nothing new to report. And, your claim that it was "several hours" after two pm before you saw the story on the update segment is a bit misleading, since you posted before 4 pm (maybe an hour and a half is several hours in your book but not in mine).

(FWIW: the crash of the Dover cargo plane was covered pretty much non-stop all morning by my local stations here in the DC area).

onenote

[Up2Late]

47. I'll try again

1) Nobody died in the Toronto runway over-run either.

2) Baseball Opening day was Sunday, NOT today! It was a Live Photo Opp that they preempted programming to "report."

3) The Tornadoes and Storms happened last night, and they are spending about 3 times as much time showing the scattered remains of mid-western trailer parks, something that happens several times, every year and almost always looks the same, as on the massive U.S. Air Force jet, a jet that has only crashed 4 times in the 36 years that it's been operational. I guess in your mind, they shouldn't still be reporting the overnight storms either, huh?

You don't have to be so smug. Not everyone wakes up at 6:30am and turns on the Cable T.V. "news" or has the misfortune of having huge jet crash at their local Air Force Base.

Those things fly low over my house and were built in my hometown. The fact that the everyone on board that jet survived, rather than dieing in a massive fireball, seems a bit more important than a BS photo-opp.

Plus, I heard about it during an hourly update on the Radio (NPR) News at 2:00pm. The fact that I posted to this LBN after 3:00pm might indicate that I was posting my outrage about something else <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=829030&mesg_id=829030> before remembering and finding what I had originally been looking for, or was that not something you considered before making your smug judgment and critical comments?

BTW, Chef Baker from the town of Marmaduke just said nobody was kill there either.:eyes:

[onenote]

48. Keep trying

If you really don't understand why a story about 300 passengers surviving a fiery crash of a commercial jet is a bigger story than 19 military personnel surviving a C-5 crash, then we just have different perspectives. Same goes for your thinking a non-fatal crash of a plane that doesn't crash very often is bigger news than 27 people dying in storms in the midwest. (Frankly, it would be bigger news if C-5s crashed all the time, since that would suggest a systemic problem).

And of course the presidential first pitch is a photo op. What else would it be? It was a photo op the eight time FDR did it, the three times Clinton did it and each time chimpy has done it. And it gets covered whether or not its opening day. In 1994 and 1996, Clinton threw out the first pitch (in Cleveland and Baltimore respectively). In neither case was it "opening day" in the sense that some other teams had played the day before. Hell, last year chimpy threw out the first pitch for the Washington Nationals home opener, and that was the ninth or tenth game they'd played (all of the earlier games were on the road). But all of those pitches got covered. Its the way it always has been.

Finally, I wasn't trying to be smug in pointing out that they story got a lot of coverage when it was fresh news. Just that by the time you were looking for it, it wasn't fresh news anymore. Yes, the storms happened yesterday, but the fact that there was loss of life and that it was being reported that there might be more victims makes that a fresher story than an eight hour old plane crash that where none of the 19 people aboard were killed.

onenote