Finally, a drug to prevent HIV infection?

[LiberalGuy000]

BY MARILYNN MARCHIONE (AP)

ATLANTA -- Twenty-five years after the first AIDS cases jolted the world, scientists think they soon may have a pill that people could take to keep from getting the virus.

Two drugs already used to treat HIV infection have shown such promise at preventing it in monkeys that officials last week said they would expand early tests in healthy, high-risk men and women around the world.

"This is the first thing I've seen at this point that I think really could have a prevention impact," said Thomas Folks, a federal scientist since the earliest days of AIDS. "If it works, it could be distributed quickly and could blunt the epidemic."

Condoms and counseling haven't been enough -- HIV spreads to 10 people every minute, 5 million every year. A vaccine remains the best hope, but none is in sight.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/health/cst-nws-aids28.html

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. Yes. Ahem. Hmmm

But if we all took that they we'd be tempted to do the wild thing more often.

Nope, we need to put this idea to bed. AIDS keeps us moral, didn'tya know?

[BOSSHOG]

Yes Ma'm

Just like abstinence pledges absolutely, positively prevents cute little cherubic "christian" children from engaging in sexual activity.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. Shhhhhh

don't tell anyone about this. It will just rile up the homos.

[baby_mouse]

41. RAARRRG! RILE on cue.

zzzzz

[Orrex]

2. I propose abstinence-only education instead

Much more effective in preventing HIV in children and hemophiliacs.
:sarcasm:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. exactly. This will only cause them to break god's law as "I" define it.

Make them suffer. That will teach those cute little africanicans. And who wants to waste research money on helping sanfranscinitoids, dem evil, demon-worshipping, bible-ignorant heathens.

[radfringe]

40. you said it

fundies will flood the FDA to prevent it from being used based on the argument that it will encourage teenage sex

[northzax]

3. who the hell's going to sign up for that trial?

sucks to get the placebo, huh?

[pitohui]

7. it may be a safety trial

i read it as checking for side effects, they are still supposed to be using condoms, correct?

they compare it to malaria drugs and those can have some whacky side effects as i know from personal experience, so they prob. just want to check and be sure it doesn't cause you to have weird paranoid fantasies abt hosing down the post office with an AK

[northzax]

8. right, it's still a bit weak to me, though

say we create a 1,000 person double blind study of high risk people. realistically, some of them are now going to think they are protected (no matter what the Docs say, people will hear 'vaccine' and think they're fine. and some of them will be controls. and people die. it just sucks.

plus, if it's a safety trial, then we still don't have real evidence that it does anything to prevent HIV infection in humans, all the work has been done on monkeys. you have to have a double blind efficacy trial before releasing the drug.

[megatherium]

15. they're using drugs that are already available.

of course, prophylactic use would be off-label, so your insurance company wouldn't pay for it. I dunno if insurance companies would pay for such a use if it were proven to work, if it were for "high risk" populations such as sex industry workers or men who have sex with men. Probably it would be approved for serodiscordant married couples.

[Liberal Veteran]

27. No need for a safety trial in this case.

This combination pill has been approved by the FDA for use in treating HIV infection since 2004. The two component drugs tenofovir and emtricitabine have been approved for use in treating HIV infection since 2001 and 2003 respectively. It's already been through clinical trials and brought to market.

[Deja Q]

12. Actually,

sucking is technically safer than the predominant way of contracting the virus.

[toopers]

18. prostitutes, drug users, and maybe others in . . .

Africa where I think it has the fastest infection rate. Please don't quote me on the infection rate.

[xchrom]

21. they don't do placebos for trials like that.

just like advance cancer studies -- they don't use placebos in those either.

[northzax]

22. but without a control

how can you determine the efficacy of a drug? I know that end stage trials are not double blind, but a preventative has to be double blind, without a control, the results are, in essence, meaningless.

[nodehopper]

25. oh, I am sure

they will test it in Africa, as usual, on populations who are high-risk anyway.

[pitohui]

6. not as exciting as headline makes it sound

read down, you gotta take it before the unprotected sex similar to malaria drugs

what good is that to victim of prison rape, hell, the victim of rape on the street, or the person who doesn't quite admit to himself he's going to have gay sex but passion takes over and it happens

it is better than nothing but we also need a "morning after" preventative if you will

i read the doctors in kenya have not given up the hunt for a vaccine

still it's progress and some progress is better than no progress, real people don't have sex w. rubbers their entire freakin lives, that's for sure and this might be a big help to many

[megatherium]

16. there has been work on "morning after" use of the

antiretrovirals (after sex, and after needle-sticks in health workers). I seem to recall they actually do work to some extent (reducing the chances of an infection resulting from an exposure).

[pitohui]

17. i think i heard something abt this

i hope they do turn out to be helpful

[Warpy]

9. The religious nutcases will never let it get to market

Look how they are fighting the HPV vaccine. Everything that will prevent devastating illness increases promiscuity, in their view, and promiscuity is what caused the fall of the Roman Empire, the eviction from Eden (although one wonders how that happened given there were only two people), the Black Death, and every other ill that has befallen humankind since Lucy figured out how to walk upright and bang two rocks together to crack nuts.

Anything that makes sex safer for any woman or any gay is deeply threatening to them.

[Liberal Veteran]

28. It's already on the market.

I've been taking it for quite some time now. This is simply a new use for a drug that has already been approved for treating HIV infection (and it has the advantage of being fairly easy to tolerate and has a long serum and cellular half-life which allows for once daily dosing....which was a blessing to someone like me who spent 5 years with three alarm clocks set to go off every single morning at the exact same time so I could take my pills on time twice a day).

[lovuian]

10. How much??? and we take it for 50 years how much???

This is a heck of an answer??? Its a pharmaceutical cash cow!!!

[Deja Q]

11. People improving their self-esteem might be the core issue.

Few people ask why some people don't practice safe sex. Many people just want to die and think AIDS is the best way. (it isn't. There are far less painful and humiliating ways to go... of course, observing humanity, the phrase "some people are just stupid" is a genuine reality.)

[nodehopper]

24. that doesn't really work

for people who believe they are in monogamous relationships, victims of rape and many, many, many women in African or South American cultures where it the culture is completely different and it is all but impossible for them to ask their husbands to wear condoms.

[Zhade]

13. And if true, a bargain at $100 a pill!

Step right up, folks!

[MadMaddie]

14. Could you imagine if Reagan would have taken this disiese

seriously this drug could have been discovered 10-20 years ago.....Compassionate Conservatism!!! I hope it's hot where he is!!:grr:

[megatherium]

19. Reagan was pretty much clueless on AIDS, for the first several

years. Supposedly, he asked his own physician about it when his old Hollywood friend Rock Hudson got AIDS. The ones who deserve to fry in Hell are his domestic policy advisors Bill Bennett and Gary Bauer. They knew good and god-damned well what the score was, but they decided since the disease was striking mainly gay men and injective drug users, it could/should be ignored. Only a few million dollars a year was spent on research and care for the disease in the first few years -- even though any bozo could see the case load was increasing exponentially and that the epidemiology was loud and clear that it was sexually-transmitted.

[Cronus Protagonist]

20. They have ZERO chance of me ever taking that shit

I think my chances are better without poisoning myself with pharmacological snake oil. Much better. Cheaper too. It's simple - don't get fucked in the ass by an unwrapped infected person and don't share needles. If you can't manage that, you probably can't manage to take the pills at the right time either.

AFAIC, pills are for sick people, not healthy ones.

[KAZ]

23. So I guess you've passed on...

... on all inoculations (polio, diphtheria, tetanus, etc). Good luck.

If this pans out, I think it's a great advance, with the potential of saving millions. Even those who don't "get fucked in the ass". Decorum keeps me from saying so much more.

[Cronus Protagonist]

29. OK, so you take it then

I prefer to avoid catching HIV through not engaging in acts that cause its transmission rather than sucking at the teat of the pharmaceutical industry. In fact the prevention that's currently available is almost 100% effective.

Taking a pill of dubious benefit with unknown side effects just to avoid a disease that's very difficult to catch and can in all cases be completely prevented with simple actions seems to me to be significantly less effective and a damn sight more costly with doubtful benefit to boot.

And I said something about getting fucked in the ass and sharing needles because these are the HIV's mode of transmission, both modes of which can easily be prevented by using condoms or simple behaviour modification like cleaning that needle before one shoots.

Sorry to hear that the whole idea of fucking up the ass is so abhorrent to you, but plenty of people do it every day, male and female, straight, gay and transgender alike. Wrapping the goods prevents more than just the spread of HIV, and it works, no pills needed!

P.S. On edit, the professionals in the disease prevention world are against prophylactic pill as well, as they could allow people to think they are immune so they engage in risky behaviour again, perhaps causing an epidemic if it turns out to not be effective, and if it is, it could cause an epidemic of Hepatitis, HPV (warts), and other sexually transmitted diseases that are also prevented or restrained through condom use.

[KAZ]

31. These people would benefit. Tell them.

http://www.avert.org/aidsimpact.htp

Broaden your perspective a bit. Using your logic, condoms promote "risky behavior", eh? They are prophylactics after all.

Tell it to 2.5M people who have died in Africa this year.

I gave you too much credit.

[Cronus Protagonist]

32. Condoms promote less-risky behaviour

And they prevent several different diseases. Using my logic, millions of people who have anal sex are still alive. Before my logic, which isn't really my own but is that of the leaders in HIV AIDS healthcare, people were dying of the epidemic.

As for the people who are dying in Africa this year, that's a whole other issue. Condoms are cheap, even in Africa, and could be made more widely available there too. Not one of them could afford the proposed drug, so your argument is either naiive or disingenuous. If you are really concerned about all the people in Africa getting HIV, there's plenty of work you can to do help. But somehow I think you just used that as tool for your argument and don't really give much of yourself or your time to that cause.

Calm down a little, and do try to keep the insulting attacks away from my PM. If you aired your dirty laundry in this thread, people would get a much more realistic POV of you.

[KAZ]

35. I'm sorry. I can't be as trite. At least in public.

You just cast off 2.5 mil people due to "Condoms are cheap, even in Africa". And how do they buy them. They can barely afford food, let alone the fact that they live in a culture that is not understood by you or me. And you wonder why I'm mad (PM). I PM you to privately plead to your better side. Dumb idea.

And don't tell me to "calm down", or tell me what I give "of myself". Why don't you get a clue?

[Cronus Protagonist]

37. Help Africa - Condoms or prophylactic drugs?

Let's see... yup, condoms are the way to go. Cheap and plentiful and almost 100% effective. And there ARE programs taking condoms to Africa. If you want to help Africa, there's plenty of places to donate, but I don't think any of them are planning on shipping out a new patented designer pharmaceutical, so you might have to wait a while.

And I didn't cast off a single person. You seem to be making stuff up and responding to yourself. Perhaps you should do that privately.

Again, sadly... *plonk*

[KAZ]

39. You didn't even look at the link.

Besides all of you your disparaging remarks, I think we both want the same thing. Try it.

[closeupready]

34. AIDS as crowd control?

I'm disgusted by the idea that the ends justifies the means, especially when lives hang in the balance.

[closeupready]

33. Are you even gay?

The risk you take in adopting such an approach is that your intended audience declines to listen to you, because they dislike the tone of your message. That may not make sense to someone who thinks rationally, but guess what, most people don't think rationally - they think based upon emotion, the moment, etc.

There are 10 new cases of AIDS per minute. Are you going to tell them that since they couldn't manage to use an effective prophylactic, they can't adopt a regimen of pills which may prevent infection - even if it's available and even if they want to???

[Cronus Protagonist]

36. Sorry, pal, but I'm a trained HIV educator

Life is at stake. Fucking without condoms and or sharing needles is how you get it. Condoms and cleanliness prevent or reduce transmission. These are facts. What part of that is offensive? My "tone"? What tone is that? In any case, I don't doubt that it's one that you hear a lot, because the source isn't "out there".

I don't like to do this, but sometimes you just have to... and I recommend you do the same... *plonk*

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[closeupready]

42. If that's a "no, I'm not gay", then that tells me all I need to know.

Nobody who's not gay can truly empathize with gay men and the pitfalls/difficulties they go through coming to grips with this. I think that's completely obvious in your condescending post. I would never attend a workshop given by someone with such an attitude.

[Occulus]

43. And I suppose infected people glow to your eyes or something

so you and only you can ID them at a "safe" distance.

Think before you post next time.

[Liberal Veteran]

26. Okay...now let me inject some sanity into this.

This isn't some new exciting advance.

It's a combination antiretroviral that has been on the market to treat HIV infection for years.

It's tenofovir and emtricitabine (marketed by Gilead as Truvada). I've been taking it along with Sustiva (the NNRTI backbone of my drug regimen) for about a year now.

All this is really is just an expanded form of what is called PEP (post-exposure prophylaxis). Hospitals have been doing this for quite a while in the case of accidental needle sticks (and I understand that sometimes it has been used in cases of rape) with other antivirals such as AZT.

Now to editorialize a bit, I think this is a horrible, horrible idea. Truvada has a fairly low occurence of short-term side-effects, however, it is VERY VERY expensive (in the neighborhood of 25 dollars per pill) and to date we have absolutely NO IDEA what the long-term side effects of this drug might be. This is a pill you don't want to be taking every single day unless you have no other choice.

I think it's a very expensive proposition that offers very little in returns as compared with REAL education about safer sex and needle exchange programs. I really don't see how you are going to get someone to take a pill every day if you can't convince them that putting on 10 cent condom would have the same effect (as well as help prevent other STDs).

I understand how this sounds like a wonderful thing, but it's not anything particularly new or exciting.

(Although, if this idea brought the price of Truvada down to 30 dollars a month instead of the 865 dollars it currently cost, I could see that as a really good thing, but I think there are far far better ways to spend limited money for AIDS prevention and education than this).

[Lostnote06]

30. If the cause:Then the cure...........I wouldn't be surprised(geesshh)