Never Call Retreat (Hackett's "grudge" )

[Algorem]

http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/openers/

None of the fight has gone out of Paul Hackett, who told a home-county Democratic audience Thursday night that he won't do anything to help U.S. Rep. Sherrod Brown campaign for the Senate.

"Not in my lifetime,'' Hackett said. ''He spread rumors about my service in Iraq that were absolutely bullshit.

"Sorry, I'm a hillbilly at heart, and also Irish," Hackett explained. "I've got Irish Alzheimer's. You know what that is: You forget everything but a grudge.''

Hackett spoke for about 45 minutes to the Anderson Newtown Democratic Club, which is based in the Cincinnati suburbs not far from his home in Indian Hill. About 80 people were in the audience, including former Democratic Gov. John Gilligan, and they gave Hackett a standing ovation at the start and finish of his talk. Not one person rose to challenge him for attacking Brown, and it was clear the Democrats had warm feelings for him...

[Wickerman]

1. nice sensitive remark for those struggling with AD n/t

[dave29]

3. Hackett isn't beloved for his sensitivity

.

[wtbymark]

14. AD = attention deficit , not Alzheimer's n/t

[Wickerman]

26. No

Alzheimers is often referred to as AD.
http://www.alzheimers.org/
Latest report highlights recent scientific advances in government-supported AD research, including new initiatives and findings

Attention Deficit Disorder is usually refered to as ADHD adding Hyperactivity Disorder since its very difficult to distinguish between the two and the disorders rarely standalone.

http://www.add.org/articles/factsheet.html

AD is NEVER correctly just Attention Deficit.

But thanks for that stunning insight.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

34. No- Attention deficit is ADD/ADHD.

I know this all too well- I exhibit loads of the symptoms!
Oooh, shiny things!

[Wickerman]

110. lol

that was hilarious.

[MrBenchley]

2. Seems like Democrats are well rid of this goddamn crybaby

What a disgrace he is.

[wndycty]

5. I don't think he is a disgrace, if anything he was naive about politics

. . .most people are.

[MrBenchley]

9. He sure seems to enjoy lashing out at others

for his own failures.

He got the internet cowboys all worked into a lather, but other than that he seems to have left Ohio Democrats cold. Brown was more than 20 points ahead when Hackett hit the silk.

[liberalnurse]

22. If the shoes fits......

and indeed they do.....Brown will ultimately have to walk in them. It;s threads like this that reflect on Brown as a weak candidate. I'm convinced now that he is no progressive. I'm basing this on his behavior in the past week. A great disappointment.

[MrBenchley]

25. Give it a rest. Hackett quit because he was a failure.

"I'm convinced now that he is no progressive"
What a magic term "progressive" is...it seems to be utterly meaningless as used by those claiming its mantle.

[liberalnurse]

57. And Brown will loose because he is

a " spoiled " candidate now....His ego is way out of focus.

[JustDoIt]

118. You really don't know about this,

do you?

Brown has spectacular ADA and ACLU ratings

[PassingFair]

139. "Left Ohio democrats COLD"??? Did you even READ the post?

"About 80 people were in the audience, including former Democratic Gov. John Gilligan, and they gave Hackett a standing ovation at the start and finish of his talk. Not one person rose to challenge him for attacking Brown, and it was clear the Democrats had warm feelings for him..."

These are the people who GET OUT AND WALK the precincts!

The chardonnay drinkers have spilled their wine carelessly.
The grassroots are NOT lapping it up.

[MrBenchley]

156. Yeah, I did...Hackett's own polls had him 20+ points down

But don't let any facts get in your way.....

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

8. Bullshit.

He quit and blamed everybody else for his failure.

[phantom power]

23. He quit, but why waste time trying to work with people who...

won't honor their agreements with him? I suppose he could run on an independent ticket, if he obtained sufficient funding.

[MrBenchley]

27. He quit and wants to blame others for his failure

"I suppose he could run on an independent ticket, if he obtained sufficient funding."
But considering that the internet cowboys weren't exactly flooding him with their nickels up 'til now.....

[LiberalGuy000]

46. sodomy

Are you suggesting that sodomy is a bad thing? :sarcasm:

[SOS]

33. Democrats are well rid of him?

The 2008 Democratic presidential primaries may prove your epitaph premature.

[MrBenchley]

38. Sure seems to me we could use less whining and sniveling

of the sort Deport 'em all Paul is indulging in.....

"The 2008 Democratic presidential primaries"
You MUST be kidding. Having failed in his first campaign, and having spit the bit and run back to the barn in his second, Hackett is actually going to run for President?

[rusty_parts2001]

140. Totally agree

He sounds like a loose cannon who is not ready for prime time. If he can't support the party, he needs to find another one.

[wndycty]

4. I'm not taking sides in this issue because I'm a big Hackett fan. . .

. . .nor will I criticize him because he feels he was lied to and betrayed (and there is a ton of evidence supporting that), but what I want to explain to many DUers is this is about politics plain and simple. This happens everyday. I'm still hoping Hackett goes back on his word (it would not be the first time) and runs for Ohio's 2nd CD. Integrity and honor are extremely important in life and I want to believe in all our leaders (on both sides of the aisle), but strategy and pragmatism should never ever be ignored.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. Dude, no commentary in LBN headlines

Just the fucking headline and relevant information, please.

[ClassWarrior]

13. Looks relevant to me.

From what I recall, he did change his story. Didn't he promise to support Brown just after he withdrew?

16-5.

NGU.

[mzmolly]

40. Yes, he promised to help in any way, and claimed at one time that

he thougth the "swift boat" deal was a "Republican M.O." suddenly he's got several sources who say it was "BROWN?"

[redqueen]

52. I don't understand your post...

Brown was trashing him? Has he shared the source?

[mzmolly]

60. Hackett initially said he thought Republicans "swift boated" him, now

he claims it was Brown.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wakeme2008]

11. This is from a WEBLOG not a news source

IMHO it does not meet LBN rules.

[Kukesa]

32. Yeah, and a Cleveland blog,to boot.

Cleveland people hate Paul.

See, here in Ohio we have this North-South problem. People north of I-70 LOVE Brown; people south of I-70 don't know much about Brown. And some of us are still recovering from the kick in the teeth we got from Brown fans.

[mzmolly]

12. I think he's losing his fan base.

I gave him money, supported him with enthusiasm - but I admit I'm disapointed in him as of late.

He spoke his peace, he offered to help Brown just last week yet suddenly he'll never "forgive" him?

I think we're dealing with quite an ego here - one that can't admit he partly because of his own actions.

[mzmolly]

15. An earlier quote from Mr. Hackett:

HACKETT:

I may not like the fact that it unrolled this way with me.
That’s life. Given the choice, I’d rather see Sherrod Brown as my
next Senator… Why do I want to hurt him if we can get him elected.
I’m not suggesting that I want to go hunting with him or fishing with
him…I don’t have to like him personally. I have to like his politics…
I’m proud to say that I’m a team player…Everybody who is upset about this,
get over it now and let’s work hard to get Democrats on the ticket elected.
They may not be perfect, but they are better in most cases than the alternative.
Certainly in Ohio that’s the case. So, all that are spun about it, let’s make
sure all the Democrats that make in on the ticket this Fall get elected in Ohio.
And that’s improvement. And they will ultimately improve the process and make
America better for all of us.

[liberalnurse]

17. Brown has much to loose if he does not

completely snuff out Paul Hackett.

This appears to be the goal of this thread. I find such assassination abusive and telling of Sherrod Brown. The poster is reflects an inside look at the Brown Camp. Well, votes in Ohio count and if this voter and offended constituents of Ohio see Brown as business as usual......we may not vote at all....Leave the U.S Senate choice blank...let the repugs play with the hole.

[MrBenchley]

20. LOL! So Hackett lauches yet another phony attack on Brown

and you say, "I find such assassination abusive and telling of Sherrod Brown"

Hokay.

[liberalnurse]

30. Well, I have a vote in this Ohio U.S Senate race.

I don't believe you qualify.......Votes win elections......Brown has shown his true colors to Ohioians.....He has behaved shamefully and without honor. Ohio voters will measure that against DeWine...............who has a respectable track record they trust, especially the rural Independents. He has this established and Brown is starting off with betrayal and dishonesty. Ohio will go with what they know.....Brown has Fucked this all up.

[MrBenchley]

36. LOL!

"Brown has shown his true colors to Ohioians"
Yes, he quit the race in a pissy little snit, lashed out at others for his failures, and invented non-existent attacks by his opponent after first saying he would support....oh, wait! That was "Deport 'em all Paul" Hackett, not Brown...

[redqueen]

54. "Deport 'em all"?

What's that about?

I like this guy less and less, the more I learn about him.

[MrBenchley]

67. Here you go....

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/013764.html

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/1/20/144230/040

On the plus side, the specimens at Free Republic leaped to their feet and cheered.

Hilariously, many here have been yowling for a purge of everyone not on the far left from the Democrats, and now they imagine they got one and don't like it one bit. Hackett's positions on issues like gun control and immigration are almost indistinguishable from a right wing loony like Tom Tancredo.

[redqueen]

72. hahahahahahaha...

Dude's in no way cut out for politics.

[MrBenchley]

80. Doesn't seem like it....

and his exit is particularly graceless....

[redqueen]

81. You're too kind...

graceless is about as nice a euphemism as one could use.

[MrBenchley]

84. I keep getting complaints about being "mean"

so I'm trying to be a "kinder, gentler MrBenchley" (snicker)...

It most reminds me of "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore." Except Nixon really did go away and sulk for a year or two.

[redqueen]

88. Well you can be!

I know... I have the bruises. :( ;)

[MrBenchley]

94. Oops!

It's a rough and tumble sport.....

[redqueen]

96. hahaha

that's an understatement!

No hard feelins.

:hug:

[MrBenchley]

101. Do you watch Deadwood?

I love this quote from Ian McShane's character, Al Swearingen. Merrick the town newspaper operator, has found his presses smashed and his office wrecked by vandals and is in despair...Al slaps him across the face, and then says "Pain or damage don't end the world, or despair or fuckin' beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man and give some back."

[redqueen]

133. I love that.

I don't watch it, but thanks ever so much for sharing the quote. :D

[MrBenchley]

141. At its best, the show has a Shakesperean eloquence....

I'm hooked on it...

Here's some more...

Alma Garrett's husband bought a phony gold claim from Al Swearignen, and asked Wild Bill Hickock to get it back for him. Bill refused, but warned him that Swearingen was a dangerous man. Garrett paid no mind, and was killed (ironically, his death revealed that the claim wasn't phony after all, but was a bonanza). Alma herself then asked Hickock to help get the money back:

Wild Bill Hickok: You know the sound of thunder, Mrs. Garret?
Alma Garret: Of course.
Wild Bill Hickok: Can you imagine that sound if I asked you to?
Alma Garret: Yes, I can, Mr. Hickok.
Wild Bill Hickok: Your husband and me had this talk, and I told him to head home to avoid a dark result. But I didn't say it in thunder. Ma'am, listen to the thunder.

Al and another crooked saloon owner look over the town:
Al Swearengen: Sometimes I wish we could just hit 'em over the head, rob 'em, and throw their bodies in the creek.
Cy Tolliver: But that would be wrong.


Wild Bill Hickok: Some goddamn point a man's due to stop arguing with his-self and feeling twice the goddamn fool he knows he is 'cause he can't be something he tries to be every goddamn day without once getting to dinnertime and fucking it up. I don't want to fight it anymore, understand me Charlie? And I don't want you pissing in my ear about it. Can you let me go to hell the way I want to?

A character named Mose Manuel shot his brother Charlie to death so he could sell his gold claim to Hearst's combine, as represented by a geologist (and sexually compulsive serial killer) named Wolcott. Later he is cheated out of his ill-gotten gains by Cy Tolliver, working in cahoots with Wolcott. When he demands the money he's lost gambling back...
Wolcott: Including youth, Mr. Manuel? And why not beauty? Not credibly restored, perhaps, but as a new non-negotiable term? Would you not have, too, your brother Charlie resurrected? Would you stipulate your envy of him being purged? Surely, you insist that Charlie retain certain defects - his ineffable self-deceptions, for example, which were your joy in life to rebuke, and purpose, so far as you had one. I suppose you would see removed those qualities which caused you to love him, and the obliviousness to danger which allowed you to shed his blood.

While musing on his latest set of murders, Wolcott is confronted with the county commissioner...
Wolcott: I am a sinner that does not expect forgiveness. But I am not a government official.

http://www.us.imdb.com/title/tt0348914/quotes

http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/

[rexcat]

116. My guess is you are reading the...

repuke playbook that you ordered on line from Rove's office of disinformation!

[Marie26]

71. Oh, yeah

He said that. That's when I jumped off the Hackett bandwagon. The guy doesn't think through what he says.

[SOS]

92. More colors

From Grow Ohio, August 17, 2005:

My Plans for 2006 by Sherrod Brown (now deleted from the site)

"After discussions with my family, closest friends, and colleagues in Congress, I have decided to seek re-election to the United States House of Representatives. The race for U.S. Senate is very winnable, and there are a number of impressive Democrats considering a run who I am confident will defeat the incumbent in 2006. My first professional obligation, and honor, is to continue serving the people of northeastern Ohio."

His profession and honor were at stake here.

What happened?

[liberalnurse]

104. Yea,,,,,that's how he is.....

two faced.......He will not beat DeWine with this behavior......And let us not forget;

" Your first impression is the most lasting impression".

What a way to start off.....Brown apparently will continue being a flip flopper.

[PassingFair]

142. Good save, SOS.

Thank you.

Apparently, honor gets thrown under the bus along with "inconvenient"
issues under our current party puppeteers!

[mzmolly]

39. Hackett is basically out campaigning against Brown.

He's waging a thinly veiled egomaniacal "grudge" as he calls it. Pathetic.

And, I'm a former Hackett campaign contributor, I've never given a dime to Brown.

[liberalnurse]

64. Brown drew first blood.....

and no one will support him for blind siding Hackett. He employed his road-rage bloggers and let us not forget his Cleveland Plain Dealer Editor-Columnist wife, Connie Schultz, who obviously has a dog in this race and tracks to cover.... The stalking of Paul Hackett speaks for itself.

[mzmolly]

66. "drew first blood?"

:eyes:

Hackett can't make up his mind WHO bloodied him actually. I think he ran a poor campaign and now he's out trying to "blame" everyone else because he got a boo boo.

[liberalnurse]

82. The truth will come out ....soon enough.

Running as an Independent has a way with purging the lot.

[mzmolly]

90. "purging" - good analogy.

:puke:

Like I say, if he does run as a spolier - and I would not be surprised, he may need to do a better job raising money?

Perhaps RALF can help with that? After all, he's filthy rich and - has benefited from some great tax cuts under this administration ...

[liberalnurse]

106. Are you an Ohio voter?

If so, proclaim your turf now. I happen to live and vote in Ohio. Let us set the record now.

[mzmolly]

115. "proclaim my turf?"

I'm a Minnesota voter who contributed to Hacketts campaign. They didn't ask where I lived before accepting my donation.

Are you a Democrat? "Proclaim YOUR uhm, turf."

[liberalnurse]

164. I am a Democrat.....

I live in southwestern Ohio. This Senate race is my turf. You apparently want to discourage Ohio voters with such negativity and inflammatory attacks for a race you have no dog in....

I don't believe you ever gave a red cent to Hackett either. You just have way too much rhetoric in this thread to actually be a sincere, disgruntled donor. I can "feel" the a flames. You glow bright amber, for you obviously find pleasure with your disruptive nature.

[mzmolly]

169. I dont give a flying f what YOU believe.

Jesus, now I'm "glowing bright red amber?" And were talkin "turf?" Get a grip. :eyes: I don't need to have contributed to Hacketts campaign in order to have an opinion, but I did.

As for not having a "dog" in the race, I have several "dogs" as I want to see DEMOCRATS control the congress/senate in the coming elections - got it?

Regarding your "disruptive" comment, ALL of MY posts remain ...

[wtbymark]

19. because he learned that the dems in washington made a deal..

the repukes in washington screwed the dems after Hackett dropped out. A partisan doublecross backdoor deal got Hackett DLC'ed out of the race. Another perfect play by the repukes, Brown won't win, Hackett could have - next election race please - dems fucked this one all up.

[MrBenchley]

29. Quick: how many empty, silly phrases can be packed into one post?

"A partisan doublecross backdoor deal got Hackett DLC'ed"
LOL!

[mzmolly]

37. Bologna, the DLC liked Hackett. Hacketts ego won't allow him to admit

HE is to blame for refusing to solicit funds/dropping out of the race.

I don't know how anyone could think a guy with 200k in the bank can compete with 4 million? Hackett admits he didn't have the cash, Brown did.

[liberalnurse]

53. He should run as an Independent then....

I think it would server Ohio's best interest.

[redqueen]

55. Splitting the vote is in OH's best interest?

:wtf:

[mzmolly]

65. Yeah, just like Nader running was in Americas best interest.

And we say "Republicans" are ignorant.

[redqueen]

*sigh*

Experience is a dear school...

One would think you'd only have to go through it once, though.

[liberalnurse]

70. No, Hackett will win.....

We will then be rid of DeWine!

[redqueen]

73. Errrrrrr.... okay... didn' tknow that many Dems wanted to

"Deport 'em all" or ... whatever other loony stuff he's got up his sleeve.

I think your hopes are just a weeeeeeeeeee bit optimistic.

[liberalnurse]

87. I sense you are going to lite a candle tonight

in search of blessings that I am too optimistic.,

[redqueen]

95. Huh?

You mean you think I'm going to pray that he won't win? He's not even running, so that makes absolutely no sense... plus I'd never pray for something negative to happen to someone... that's just wrong.

I'll light a candle tonight in hopes that both sides of this mess can move forward and devote their energies to something that will help alleviate suffering...

[liberalnurse]

99. Your running a poor bluff.

n/t

[redqueen]

100. You're awful presumptuous, aren't you?

:rofl:

[rexcat]

122. I thought we had things more or less settled in the...

Ohio forum with the Hackett supporters and the Brown supporters but Algorem reared its ugly head and has been fanning the flames again concerning Hackett, and from a blog no less. Personaly I don't think Algorem is on our side at times. It may be as simple as an ego problem with Algorem but there may be something more sinister going on.

[mzmolly]

63. Really? Play that out why don't you?

How would it serve in Ohio's best interest?

I don't think he has the cash to run as an independent, and remember he doesn't like fundraising. But, he may be a great spoiler!

[PassingFair]

143. ..."the DLC liked Hackett"

:rofl:

:puke:

Words cannot express my reaction to your statement!
I think the back of my head just blew off.

[mzmolly]

149. That's what happened when I posted a thread to this effect.

I spose it's like when Bush voters call him conservative and are shown the numbers?

:nuke:

[Marie26]

162. Huge cognitive dissonance n/t

[JI7]

131. huge ego

of course most in politics have egos. but it's in the way they deal with it. and Hackett's way is a real turnoff. especially since it only helps the republicans.

[mzmolly]

154. True on all counts.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

155. "one that can't admit he LOST partly because of his own actions."

I ah, left out a key word. ;)

[truthisfreedom]

16. if you're new to politics and pretty rough around the edges, it's going to

show in soundbites.

[liberalnurse]

18. Brown supporters

must have renewed their prescriptions for Viagra.:scared:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. Oh Good Lord.

Maybe he can be Nader's running mate this time around.

[cali]

28. All I want from Hackett is that he cease and desist

making negative comments. He says he's out of politics, so why is he making speeches bashing someone he said he'd support? He's a loose cannon. It would have caught up with him in his political life.

[cenacle]

35. hackett got screwed

and randi rhodes called it on her show...the Democrats thought they had scored a deal with the Repugs to get wiretapping hearings in the Senate, but they had to get Hackett out of Dewine's way...so they did, dumped him like yesterday's burritos...then Dewine turns around and stabs them in the back, how surprising...Hackett went to Iraq for Americans, to serve his country, and however much I oppose the war, I admire his straight-up conviction both for serving and for later saying the war is wrong and it has to end...he's a private citizen, he is allowed to speak his truth now without worrying about trying to whore into political office...

but he's not alone...look at Cindy Sheehan, another hero in this time of few of them...she chose not to run for Senate against Feinstein in Cali...that she can cause greater change from the outside of elected office...

i admire both of them and think it telling that so many powerful Democrats don't seem to want people like this to be running for Congress, but the same old hacks who have capitulated to the Bush* cabal for the last five years, asses in the air for another kick and thank you sir may i have another...

i hope the Dems take the Congress back in '06, to me that is a first step...but the next one is to form a true progressive alternative, not a cult of personality like the Green Party became, but a real alternative for people who really can't take the Dems, and don't expect they are ever going to do right by their own past ideals, this country, or the world as a whole...

if heros like Sheehan and Hackett have no welcomed place in the Democratic Party, if they are slandered simply for speaking the truth to power, and given no encouragement to go to DC and shake the dust up hard when it so needs it, then it cannot hold the long-term solution we need to achieve a better world for all...

[zalinda]

41. I love Randi, but I think she got it wrong this time

Hackett's own campaign crew said that the campaign was not going well. He refused to make campaign contribution calls and was way behind in fund raising. Did the dems go to him and ask him to withdraw, quite probably. He would have siphoned off money from Brown, when he didn't have a chance to win the primary. The dems did ask him to run for Congress again though, and he refused.

As for the rumors of his Iraq tour.....people do not know who they came from. They assume it was from Brown, but that doesn't make sense. What does make sense is that they came from DeWine, this would make it a divide and conquer move, which is what the repubs do.

Look what has happened right here on this forum. You have pro-Hackett and anti-Hackett fighting. And the time when all dems should be hanging together Hackett is out there dissing Brown. Rove anyone? Think about it!

zalinda

[cenacle]

48. dont know about that...

the dems cut off his funding...they asked him to run and then decided that they wanted to go a different route...they treated him poorly...for all the talk of free debate, and listening to all sides, and giving people a chance, in the end the Dems want to win...they are a business and want to put their people in charge, and reap the benefits...over and over the truth is stifled on all levels...and yet this formula, this republican-lite win at all costs by being everything to eveyone and not anything offensive to anyone, loses...the repubs put up nixon, claws and avarice, and the Dems put up humphrey and mcgovern...the repubs put up reagan with his strange combination of populist appeal and conservative disdain for most people, and the dems respond with mondale...the dems put up gore and kerry against bush* and what should have been runaway victories are turned into very fishy close race defeats...there's no way it should have come down to one county in 2000, or ohio in 2004...bush* should have been beaten easily in 2000 but gore was too busy saying i'm not clinton i'm not clinton...in 2004 kerry should have been the shining liberal war hero and peace hero but instead he was the ducking weaving gloves over his face patsy...

it's not that hackett is the most important part of this story, it's that he is just one more part...sheehan too...they should have both been well supported for their courage in speaking out when most people were keeping silent...we need heroes again, people who stand alone for truth when the cowards herd into the shadows...but no, both were shuttled to the door, and a thank ye for your view...

i fear most the dems wont take back the congress this year, but i fear second most that they will and just not much will change...these past five years have betrayed all of us...we're not going to simply recover in a year or two...American standing in the world is in ruined tatters...and moreover the feeling of alienation and disappointment in the possibilities of democratic republicanism is deep now...

i wish i had more faith in any of those slimeballs in Congress, or in DC as a whole, but i simply do not...i see individuals making gestures at times...byrd, feingold, kennedy...but i do not see leaders, visionaries...i see career bureaucrats...raising no faith in anything much...

[karynnj]

86. Take a deep breath!

You raved about Hackett as a hero in a long post, ignoring the fact that he COULD have fought back. He could have used his fame and internet popularity to raise money for the primary. He didn't have to quit. (I also think the Senators shouldn't have asked him to.)

Then you criticize Kerry for not being the shining liberal war hero and peace hero, although he really was. That he had to fight smears for months wasn't his fault - but he did keep his dignity and nearly won a very unfair game. Hackett bailed out without trying. That he is now back attacking Brown is ridiculous.

[cenacle]

102. eh

kerry was a wimp, in a long line of dem presidential candidate wimps, noble, yet cowardly men who simply let handlers shush them along...humphrey in '68 not speaking out against the Vietnam War until the last week of the campaign...gore distancing himself from clinton...the list goes on and on...the repugs set the tone, and the dems just try to stay in the ring...

kerry never once took advantage of his position, really speaking day by day to people...he spoke from up on the podium, he watched the poll numbers, he dodged and parried...he let bush smear and smear and smear him and decided to rise above it all...so many people held their nose as they voted for him...not wanting him, but wanting bush out...he let his war record be tarnished, he let his peace activism be flushed...

the dems dont want heros and visionaries, they want power, they want influence, they want contracts...the exceptions to this are wonderful but they are exceptions...if the democratic party wants to find its roots again it needs to look at those who stood hard against people with expedient goals and values...they are there to inspire us...kennedy, king, roosevelt...

[karynnj]

136. Kerry DID what you suggest and his rallies were

great - but you only saw them on CSPAN. As to the SBVT, Kerry and his team fought back and proved that there were many many PROVABLE lies in the SBVT stuff, but the media helped the SBVT. They ignored the fact that ALL the navy records backed Kerry (he had 140 pages of records on his web site) - his record was not just clean, but extraordinary with glowing reports even from some of the SBVT.

Why didn't you see this? Because the media prefer to have cute little shows with a liar spreading a lie and a Kerry surrogate denying it - and both were treated with equal respect. (contrast how the Rather documents not being provably authentic meant the entire story - even unrelated parts- died).

Here's a resource of what Kerry did:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=273x70627

Consider also, that when McCain was hit with less, he got immediate support from Kerry (and the other Senate vets who Kerry pushed to support him against the attack) and some VVA people (old Kerry friends), but he still blew up and his campaign imploded. Kerry kept his temper, dignity and integrity - by the election few people voted against Kerry because of the lies.

Since then Kerry has aggressively supported people like Murtha who were attacked. THe problem was that many Democrats failed to protect Kerry. Hackett clearly stood up to far less and fell apart.

[cenacle]

158. kerry was not bad but...

he was not enough to overcome this bloated bullshit pseudo-empire military-media-industrial complex...HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED BUSH A LIAR...he was polite, he politicked in the old style of give and take...

when thugs invade your home and start breaking shit and eyeballing your people for how vulnerable they are, you hit back, you hit back twice as hard...i know it's been escalating over time but by the 2004 election it was obvious that the fight was not going to be fair, the dirt was going to fly...

kerry was and is an honorable man but these are not honorable times...i hope in 2006 the resistance to bush*'s overlordian borg-like drive does not play nice...the man is a LIAR, he is a MOUNTAINTOP-HIGH FUCKUP...his people are WAR CRIMINALS and DOMESTIC CRIMINALS...their drive is PERMANENT WAR for their CORPORATE MASTERS...

the curve in the spine of this country is severe, and it is going to take a lot of effort and wrenching days to repair it...it won't be the same, it will be something else but maybe that something else can still be good...i don't know...i'm speaking out here because people really deep down care here for the fate of the land...tied as it is to the fate of the world and of each creature upon it...

on the one hand, we believe in the freedom of expression, but on the other we have to follow this up with acceptance of responsibility...bush has freely acted like a king, and we are going to hold him accountable...he chose his path, we choose ours in facing him down or not...it's simple as that...you do what you do, and you abide by the results, there is no choice...we're not going to censor them or gun them down in the streets...we're going to keep talking and shouting and whining and arguing and cajoling until there are enough of us to take over the helm again...then other things will happen...maybe some of them better than the cesspool of events right now...

my work week is over, i need some fresh air...peace, all...this site rocks:headbang:

[PassingFair]

144. Welcome to DU, Cenacle!

I agree with you.

Repug lite will lose the fight. (every time!)

[cali]

45. I'm amused. I can think of no greater cults of personality

than the ones that have grown up around Hackett and Sheehan. Look, I don't trust Randi. She gets her facts wrong way too often. Having said that, I agree that Hackett got screwed by the dems. Whether Randi's version is true, or whether it was just a case of the insider getting rewarded, it stunk. Nevertheless, Hackett proclaimed how important it was to defeat repubs, and now, even if it's inadvertent, he's helping them. Politics is rough and often ugly. That goes for the left as well as the right. In the best of all possible worlds, it wouldn't be this way, but that's not where we live. I don't blame Hackett for being angry, but if he cares as much about changing things in DC as he's professed, he'd be well advised to just be quiet.

[cenacle]

50. to just be quiet??

isn't that how we all got into the deep shit we are in? being quiet? I say Hell No to that! people need to speak out more, and when they are angry they need to be engaged...this man is no slouch, he is angry and the Dems can engage his passion and hope to work with him, or they can take a page from Rove's playbook and crush him under foot...

it amazes me that people want silence when it is only by noise that a victim can hope to get help when the attacker has him or her cornered...the Dems are supposed to be the party of a million disparate voices finding a way to live together and prosper as individuals and as a whole...telling hackett to be quiet, or anyone with a passion to speak out, is just what the fascists raising up their soggy half ass Empire are hoping for, and working for...

as for Randi getting her facts wrong, let me say i would believe her more often that most career journalists...she and her staff work hard to get it right...i stand by her as i would any intelligent, well-spoken, deeply caring friend...

[cali]

68. If Hackett wanted to speak out he should have

stayed in the race. Period. Yes, he got screwed by some in the party, but they didn't put a gun to his head and force him to quit. The gutsy thing to do would have been to say screw you, and turn to the grassroots. He's forfeited his right to battle Sherrod Brown. As for Randi, sorry, I don't care for her. Give me Thom Hartmann, any day of the week.

One more thing, I'm not on the bandwagon when it comes to being grateful to those serving in Iraq. I'm sorry they're there, I hope they come home safe, but I'l save my gratitude for those in the armed forces who refuses to be part of this obscene war.

[cenacle]

97. whoa...

not caring for someone is not the same as accusing that person of 'getting it wrong' too often...i like franken's brains and funny dorkiness, and randi's brilliant passion, but even the ones on AAR i don't care for, such as Moral Majority or jerry springer, i don't accuse of getting it wrong...

i don't see where the grass roots is really doing all that much right now...and the response to him withdrawing was tepid at best...he was given no overwhelming reason by grass roots protests to stay in the race...

as for american soldiers in iraq, i don't see it as a simply support them or else, or oppose the whole damned thing...many of them are young and poorly informed about why they are there, and likely scared as they find out about the consequences of trying to get out before their contracted time is up...where is the huge american outcry for them to leave? who is going to stand by them if they get court martialled?

crying into a blog is not crowding daily by the millions into DC...the people who stand up and speak out are the heroes, whether they are high profile like hacket or sheehan, or researchers exposing the Bush* cabal's crimes one by one...they deserve to be engaged for their efforts...thanked, challenged, made to feel like what they are doing is worth it for moments when they doubt...i'm sure hackett felt betrayed deeply when the very people who drew him into politics turned their backs on him...and i would bet cindy sheehan has her dark nights of the soul when she wonders how much longer she can do what she is doing...and they pay their price, they pay for all of us reading about it in the papers and online...how many would take such blows for a cause if they were given the chance?

maybe it's a poor anology but in sports when you want to support your home team you raise up noise in the thousands, you let the visitors know they are in *your* house...i remember seeing on tv the Redskins fans going nuts in the old RFK stadium...

we need to show these PNAC fasist fucks, these corporate feeding swine, these swill-spewing scumbags, that this country, this world, is OUR house, all of us, rich, poor, all races and genders and ranges of opinion...we need to make MORE NOISE, jack the volume, not let the wrinkled tools in DC continue along as though they know what's the best for us...they don't and it's up to us to do something about it...

[Catrina]

160. Wow, love your passion, it is sorely lacking on the political landscape

over the past five years ~

I keep hearing that Hackett should realize that being betrayed by your own side is the way politics are and he should just accept it and move on.

Maybe, if times were different, but in these times, I have to disagree ~ I have never seen anything like the crimes and lies and destruction of rights that has become today's business as usual.

Difficult times require a different kind of politics. There hasn't been enough outrage at the incredible crimes committed by this administratoin. Politics as usual did nothing to stop them ~ imo, voices like Paul Hackett's and Cindy's are what is needed.

Maybe neither of them would be suitable for politics in different times, but then we'd never have heard of them had not the times demanded that someone step forward and call a liar a liar, or an SOB and SOB. Maybe when things return to normal they will not be needed, and in fact as some here have said, they may not be suitable for public life, when that happens. But we're not there yet, and we need them now. We need more of them ~

Paul Hackett is veteran of the war, Cindy lost her son in the same war ~ they have credibility and they resonate with many who were on the fence.

I know how I felt, after four years of virtually no opposition to the ruling party, when I first heard both of them. It was like a breath of fresh air, a little late, but they spoke for all the powerless and broke the spell that seemed to have descended on the nation, the one that made it a law that no citizen dare speak ill of the president. I wonder how different things might be now, had there been more of them in the beginning ~

[wakeme2008]

31. Nothing can help Ted Kenney Brown in Ohio

:)

[MrBenchley]

43. "Ted Kenney"????

That wasn't an attempted slur against Ted Kennedy, was it?

[Rowdyboy]

42. Hackett has gone from a hero to a worthless POS in my book......

Ohio and the Democratic party are well rid of him, it this article is any indication of his temperment and character.

[mzmolly]

44. I gotta say I'm leaning in your direction.

He could have left with dignity/respect and even come back someday. UGH

[Rowdyboy]

89. Why didn't he though? He had so much potential.....

I can understand being pissed and holding a grude, but the childish way he's been behaving since he voluntarily withdrew is really pathetic. I'm sadly beginning to feel that we really dodged a bullet.

[Marie26]

91. Imagine if he'd said stuff

like that during a televised debate. :shudder:

[mzmolly]

93. I agree.

n/t

[liberalnurse]

113. Are only posting because you

are part of a drone team for Brown?

[mzmolly]

117. What a joke of a question.

:eyes:

Brown was unknown to me until recently. I'm posting because Hackett is becoming a disapointment and I hope he'll turn back toward the road of "integrity."

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

126. Ah, when reason fails "attack the messenger"

I'll ad "dishonest" to the list

"unpatriotic, unamerikun" and now apparently ... a dishonest shill.


:hi:

[brentspeak]

170. Who are you trying to kid?

You spent all last week blasting Paul Hackett and defending Brown; but now you're claiming on this board, a week later, you're only now "leaning" to not liking Hackett.

Uh, huh. Right.

[mzmolly]

172. I still "like" Hackett. And, I don't consider having an opinion on his

contrary remarks "BLASTING." You people sure are tender. This is politics.

Hackett said a week ago that Reid/Schumer took him out, then he said he was swift boated by Republicans now he says it was Brown. He also said he'd help Brown in any way he could and "it was a wonderful experience." Now, he says he's holding a grudge. I wish he'd pick a villan/position personally.

Additionally, I praised Hackett initially saying "he's being adult about this." And, I said if he was the victim of unusual tactis I'd be upset with those responsible.

For the record I don't "kid."

[mzmolly]

173. For the record, some of my statements on the Hackett/Brown matter:

Upon first hearing what Hackett claimed happened:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2459005&mesg_id=2459005

I am highly disappointed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2120585&mesg_id=2121208

Both mens campaigns disgust me to no end if what was said is true.
IF Brown's camp spread LIES about Hackett to get ahead politically, that's despicable. If Hacketts campaign played dirty pool to "get even" without regard for the nation - it's loathsome.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2120585&mesg_id=2121193

Hackett holds Brown personally responsible for the "swiftboat" schpeal even though it is said to be a "staffer" who made the controversial claims?"

Democrats are so frikking politically ignorant. Why can't we run above board primary campaigns so the ultimate nominee has a shot in hell? @$%

I also started a thread about how even the DLC was encouraged by the thought of a Hackett run. I have not taken part in "bashing" the man.

I have a position that has evolved with the "evolving" assertions by Mr. Hackett, if he's able to clarify exactly what happened in a credible manner, perhaps I'll re-examine my thoughts? Further, I tend to consider all sides of an argument.

For the record, I don't hate Hackett or Brown. I think what happened is unfortunate as a man has been wounded. Something somewhere should have been done differently.

[liberalnurse]

108. Well, you are entitled to an opinion.....

I on the other hand, I am entitled to my opinion and render my Ohio vote on this very Senate Seat.

[Rowdyboy]

128. And, as an Ohion, you actually have a say in the matter.....

Hope you wake up the day after the election in November with new leadership in congress and the statehouse. Here in ississippi I don't have that option. Must be nice to have a chance.

[Marie26]

47. Why are these two still fighting?

Let it go already. If this is the way Hackett acts toward political opponents, it seems like he'd have had a tough time in Washington.

[liberalnurse]

49. It appears that the Brownies are stalking Hackett.

They must have a desperate need to cover their tracks. The poster links a blog form the Cleveland Plain Dealer......Isn't that where Sherrod Brown's wife works? Yea, she and her work peers have a dog in this clean-up job. Their goal....to completely snuff out anything Hackett does or says....I call them the "Candidate Assassination Whispers".


They obviously protests way too much!..............:spank:

[Marie26]

56. That's what I mean

Both sides are still leaking information to different media outlets. Brown's staff is doing it, & so is Hackett's. I know they're both angry about how the nomination went down, but all this in-fighting & backbiting is really giving the Ohio Dem. party a bad name when they can least afford it. Let's call the whole thing off.

[redqueen]

62. What has Brown leaked?

I really want to see both sides... has he been nasty like this also?

[Marie26]

74. I suspect his side leaked this story

Also, there were rumors that Brown's staff was telling reporters that Hackett committed war crimes while in Iraq. Typical dirty campaign tactics.

[redqueen]

76. Rumors?

Mmm hmm.

[Marie26]

83. Mmm hmm?

Do you mean Hackett's making that up? Who knows - he stooped to some pretty shady tactics as well, as far as I can tell. It was just ugly all around.

[redqueen]

85. No, not implying that... just

I don't take "rumors" too terribly seriously, especially when not backed up by anyone but the person who claims to be the target of whatever's being alleged was said/done.

The stuff Hackett's doing, is all documented. Too bad for his devotees. ;)

[0rganism]

135. Substantiated rumors? Rumors spread by a trustworthy source?

I haven't seen Jack Shit for credible evidence that Brown's campaign was engaged in a whispering campaign.

OTOH, I've seen all the symptoms of another Karl Rove setup to turn Democrats against one-another and hand DeWine an easy re-election.

[Marie26]

146. No evidence

It's a whispering campaign about a whispering campaign about unsubstantiated rumors. Is that credible enough for you?

[0rganism]

153. not credible enough for me, but it will probably still help DeWine

Nothing republicans like better than seeing their nominal opposition circling the firing squad.

[Marie26]

157. Sadly, yes.

I think Hackett is being used, & he's too egotistical to even realize it.

[redqueen]

58. Did he say it or not?

What's the crime here... being an insensitive egomaniac or telling the story about what said egomaniac actuall says and does?

[Marie26]

69. Both

I wouldn't be surprised if Brown's side leaked this story just to show what an egomaniac Hackett is. They've been spitting at each other in the press this whole time & I'm tired of it. This election is too important.

[redqueen]

75. I consider leaking this kind of stuff a public service. n/t

[Marie26]

78. Perhaps!

I'm not a Hackett supporter at all. But the campaign's over, Hackett is a private citizen. To keep things going at this point makes both seem pretty petty, IMO. The election's only 8 months away now - and it is so crucial to Ohio. If Dems. run the election campaign the way they've run the primary, I'm worried they'll squander this opportunity to change the state.

[liberalnurse]

105. Are you an Ohio voter?

Do you represent the voting base for this Senate Seat? Be honset....

[Kukesa]

120. Is Algorem an Ohio voter? I am -- and I'm sick of him and his

inability to let this Brown vs. Hackett situation die. No more artificial respiration, please.

Let it go, Algorem, let it go. You're making it worse by not reaching out to Hackett supporters and asking us to come together to defeat DeWine.

[redqueen]

150. Shouldn't voters be smart enough to figure that out on their own?

Instead of making this about a cult of personality for Hackett?

This is beyond childish.

[brentspeak]

171. The mods need to look into Algorem's posts on the Ohio board

The guy is a complete disruptor, openly insulting a ton of people. But he's allowed to get away with it.

[fliesincircles]

77. Speaking of protests....

A tale of two candidates.

Labor Day, 2003. * comes to Richfield (Brown's district) to pay lip service to the American "worker" at an Operating Engineers training facility. Brown along with hundreds of peace demonstrators are across the road. Just prior to *'s arrival, the Secret Service tells them they can't be there, they have to go to a designated "free speech zone" a few blocks away where * and the press cannot see them. Brown and the demonstrators refuse. They march back to the crossroads where *'s motorcade has to pass and line all four corners of the intersection. * has nowhere to hide.

Yesterday. * appears at a fundraiser for Dewine in Indian Hills, right in Hackett's back yard. * raises $1 MILLION for the pathetic GOP senator. Where was Hackett? Spreading "rumors" about "rumors" about a candidate he is NOT running against. Go figure.

[redqueen]

79. *sigh*

:(

[ClassWarrior]

111. Interesting how you broad brush anyone disgusted with Hackett's...

...infantile behavior as a "Brownie." How Progressive. I don't have any horse in this race - I don't live in Ohio and I know very little about Brown's record - yet I've gone from admiring Hackett's passion from afar to being kinda embarrassed at how he's acting.

16-5.

NGU.

[1932]

168. Uh, Hackett Dropped out. Why would "Brownies" attack him now?

I find this spin by the Hackett supporters insipid.

I've noticed in a bunch of posts that Hackett supporters are trying to pretend that it's the Brown supporters who have driven all this animosity SINCE HACKETT DROPPED OUT.

Now, how would that make any sense at all? What would the Brown supporters have to gain by fighting a battle they've already won?

This isn't about Brown suppoters. This is about Hackett supporters and Hackett critics. It's like with Bush. Ninety percent of Democrats, it seems, are more interested in criticizing Bush then they are talking about any particular democrat. Hackett is now in Bush territory. His actions have made it much more interesting to talk about whether you like or hate him and it has nothing to do with whether you're criticizing him in order to support someone else.

[progressivebydesign]

51. Gee.. he managed to insult Irish and joke about a serious disease at once.

That takes a real talent. He needs to polish himself if he ever thinks of running again.

[redqueen]

59. This guy ... does he think it's all about HIM?

:wtf:

Does he play chess? Does he understand strategy?

Do his followers?

Jesus Christ! :banghead:

[JNelson6563]

61. What a class act!

Not. :puke:

Better we learn now what a team player he is NOT than later I guess.

[skipos]

98. Defeating Dewine should be our priority.

All this Hackett vs. Brown, he said she said stuff is not helping.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kukesa]

123. Ohio voter here! Rexcat and LiberalNurse are on the money. nt

[Kolesar]

125. "the Brownies here at DU are stalking him"

It seems to me that there's another diary attacking Sherrod Brown every 8 hours on Dkos and tons of other sound-alike blogs feeding this frenzy.

[liberalnurse]

130. Well then go fight your own battles. We don't patronize DKos.

DU is my home and what I defend. Sooooooooooooo.......

I use my Taser in self defense. Get you own.

[Eurobabe]

134. It's like the national primaries all over again?!

we eat our own.

[Peace Patriot]

107. In the current circumstances, I LIKE "loose cannons," people who are

new to politics and "rough around the edges," people who are not good at "sound bites," people who change their minds sometimes--as all reasonable people do--people who feel and express REAL emotions, people who cry out when stabbed in the back, people who hate "business as usual" because "business as usual" is our Democratic Party leadership selling us out--on the war, on Bushite-controlled electronic voting with "trade secret," proprietary programming code, on everything--and especially on independent-minded candidates who are against the Iraq War (this is the War Democrats' "in the closet" war--let George do it, hee-hee).

I like people who are sick and !@#$-ing tired of this. People who lose their temper. People who are reeling at the corruption. People who may wake up one morning and say, "Okay, I got screwed. Politics is a dirty business--got to grow up," and wake up the next morning and say, "Hell no! I won't accept this!"

Our country is in transition from a democracy to a fascist junta. People who are even-tempered and "business as usual" while we are losing our democracy are not to be trusted. They are consumed with greed and/or hunger for the little scraps of power that the junta permits them to have. It is EXTREMELY difficult for a candidate to be honorable in this circumstance. Hackett must be reeling from what happened to him. And it is BECAUSE he is honorable, and genuine, that he is reeling; it is BECAUSE he cares. Unlike the smooth Mr. Brown, and all the other smoothies who are blithely selling us down the river.

If Hackett gets back on his feet--and runs as an independent, or runs for another office--I'd send him another donation in a minute. And I'm poor. I can't really afford it. Our DISGUSTING Party--and I'm a 40 year loyal Democratic Party voter and activist, so I get to say this--our DISGUSTING Party needs to be blown to smithereens--for the old derelict haunted house that it is--and put back together, from the ground up, by people like Paul Hackett.

My friends, the Democratic Party is not going to win anything significant this November. Diebold and ES&S might let us make a few modest gains--but nothing approaching a majority--in order to take the steam out of the election reform movement, and to keep their election theft machinery in place. But that's the best that will happen--and the wins/losses will be at the will of the Bush junta, not the will of the people.

Diebold and ES&S "counted" 80% of the nation's vote in 2004. Diebold's CEO, until last month, was the Bush/Cheney campaign chair in Ohio, a major donor and fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer"), who promised in writing to "deliver" Ohio to Bush/Cheney in 2004. ES&S is a spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who are gave one million dollars to the nutso 'Christian' Chalcedon Foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things.) The two companies have an incestuous relationship. They are run by two brothers, Todd and Bob Urosevich.

These are the people who are "counting" our votes under a veil of secrecy (--"trade secret," proprietary programming code in all the new voting machines and central tabulators).

Tom Delay and Bob Ney--two of the most corrupt Bushites in Congress--arranged for these two Bushite corporations to take over our election system, during the 2001-2004 period, with the $4 billion electronic voting boondoggle called the "Help America Vote Act"--which was used to bribe and bludgeon election officials around the country to quickly install (before the citizens and voters caught up with it) extremely hackable, insecure and unreliable Diebold and ES&S electronic voting systems (the two major vendors), with no paper trail requirement, with virtually no audit/recount controls, no controls on partisan vendors, no controls on lavish lobbying of election officials, no controls on secret industry "testing" of the machines, and very underfunded regulation--in addition to permitting "trade secret" programming code in the machines, code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it.

They thus created utter mayhem and vast corruption in our election system all over the country--and rendered our election system wide open to fraud, in which millions of votes can changed at the speed of light. One hacker. A couple of minutes. Leaving no trace.

The Democratic Party sat back and said NOTHING, while this election theft system was put into place. NOTHING! They said NOTHING! NOTHING! NOTHING! They're IN ON IT! Don't you get it? The FIX IS IN to keep us at war FOREVER! And the Democratic Party leadership is IN ON IT!

DEMOCRATIC election officials are INSTALLING and DEFENDING this egregiously NON-TRANSPARENT, Bushite-controlled election theft system in almost every state. Tom Delay and Bob Ney knew what they were doing. Power-hungry, greedy election officials of both parties have jumped at every carrot--the power to control millions of new Federal dollars; the lavish lobbying junkets; the secret power over elections; the "revolving door" employment; the new careers and "professional" standing in mystifying and screwing over the voters with electronics.

And you can't tell me that these election officials don't know what they're doing, and have done. And that the Democratic Party leadership doesn't know.

In California, one of the few election officials who bucked this corruption--Secretary of State Kevin Shelley, who sued Diebold and decertified the worst of their election theft machines prior to the 2004 election--was ridden out of town on a rail, his career destroyed by totally bogus corruption charges--by DEMOCRATS. BY DEMOCRATS!!!

We now have a Schwarzenegger Republican APPOINTEE and Diebold shill for Secretary of State--who is breaking the law to get Diebold machines re-certified for this year's election, the election in which the APPOINTEE Sec of State (Bruce McPherson) has to run for the first time, and in which Schwarzenegger has to run in his first normal election (not that rushed, rigged and highly irregular "recall").

They need Diebold to win. Diebold touchscreens. Diebold "GEMS" tabulators. It couldn't be plainer.

And it was the DEMOCRATS in the state legislature (2 to 1 Dem margin) who accomplished this for Diebold! The DEMOCRATS!*

The REASON that the War Democrats can't have a candidate like Paul Hackett running against the war is that he might win ANYWAY. It IS possible to win by an overwhelming vote DESPITE the fraud. But you need a huge turnout--and that's what Hackett could have done. (It appears to me that the main electronic theft has to be pre-programmed to certain percentages--that it's not so easy to alter the percent advantage to Republicans on election day itself--unless they have the touchscreens, where the individual voting machine is programmed to switch votes--and they are fighting, and playing dirty, and breaking laws all over the country, to get more touchscreens in place this year--in Calif, Pennsylvania, and elsewhere).

That's what this was all about. Paul Hackett could have won ANYWAY. And our traitorous Dem Party leaders DO NOT WANT to be beholden to an anti-war grass roots. (They made that very clear in 2004.)

Over 80% of the people in this country think the Iraq war was a mistake--in a poll this month. The great majority of Americans were against it from the beginning, before the invasion (58% opposed, Feb. '03). Yet we still had, and have, this horrible war. You tell me how that is possible with numbers like this opposed to it--without the collusion of much of the Democratic Party leadership. And after you explain that to me, explain to be how they could let rightwing Bushite corporations count our votes in secret, without crying foul.

Get up, Paul! Get back on your feet! Don't let it get to you! It is a rigged game for sure--the worst ever in our history, with both parties in collusion. Speak your mind freely! Tell it like it is! And whatever you do--run again, or not--know that your honesty, your genuineness, and your championing of decent, responsive government, were heartening to many people--to members of the great majority, who have no voice any more, in our government, and have lost our sovereignty as a people, in our own land.

-----------------------

*(To be fair, it was the new CA Democratic legislative leadership. The old guard retired last year. The new guard bludgeoned other Democrats who wanted to support Shelley, and later who wanted to appoint a Democrat in his place, into doing Schwarzenegger's will. Also, we now have a Dem State Senator, Debra Bowen, who is running for Sec of State--against appointee McPherson--on an awfully good-sounding election reform platform. She seems to understand the issues very well--in the fundamental way that we citizens understand them. She's keeping a tight watch on McPherson's activity and may be preparing a lawsuit against him. But, quite frankly, I don't trust anybody any more--except ordinary citizens, my fellow Americans, the disenfranchised majority who oppose the war and every Bush policy (way up in the 60% to 70% range)--the unlistened to, the ignored, the cannon fodder, the slave laborers, the peons, the peasants, the demoralized, the disempowered, the stomped on, and OUR analysts and champions--the born leaders who don't fit in and are no good at "sound bites." And maybe it's a good lesson for the future--for when we restore our right to vote and get our country back. No more complacency. If we want freedom and justice and peace, we have to watch our politicians and our government officials like hawks, forevermore.

----------------------

Rant over. I'm sorry, I just can't put up with this crap any more. You-all are criticizing somebody (Paul Hackett) because he doesn't fit in with these Republican butchers and thieves and torturers and their "privileged," well-heeled ($6+ million for a Senate seat) Democratic enablers?

Rant over now, for real.

[fliesincircles]

109. Sherrod Brown voted against HAVA

Not that a track record means anything

[liberalnurse]

112. No, it won't matter because honor and honesty

will resonate in Ohio........We are trying to beat a long time incumbent republican!!!!

[fliesincircles]

119. Honor? Honesty?...........OHIO?????

If any Ohio Puke gets re-elected, believe me, honor and honesty will not be RESONATING HERE!!!

[Catrina]

161. Excellent, excellent post. You are so right. Only an honest man

would reel as he is, when double-crossed as he was ~ it is a sign of his honor that he can still be shocked by what we are being told here, is 'politics as usual'. Some of us would like to change that, since it is that kind of politics that got to where we are ~ I find it so sad that people are so indoctrinated that they think there's no way to change it. Well, I disagree. Shining a light on it, will change it. Not, like an abused child who is told never to tell anyone or else, hiding the truth ~ look where that got us?

[Buck Rabbit]

163. I like people who don't quit.

You said Paul Hackett could have one anyone but I am sorry, if you quit you can't win.

The only thing he hasn't quit is his new campaign for the Republicans. How many intrerviews and speaking functions does a noncadidate have to give to bash democrats.

[zara]

121. What a Great Candidate Hackett woulda been!

Not.

[Kolesar]

127. A-Hole's gonna fuck up his fledgling Iraq War Veterans PAC

Just watch it happen.

[JI7]

129. he doesn't get it

he doesn't see how important it is that we win this Senate seat. it's not about HIM.

and he has no proof of Brown spreading rumors about his service. but we do have proof of Hackett's planning a campaign against Brown based on right wing strategy.

i really don't give a shit about whether he hates or loves Brown or whatever his personal feelings are. if you can't get behind someone against the enemy (right wingers) than shut the fuck up. i was understanding of bitter feelings he would have after what happened. but really, if he can't put that aside in order to help the party (which includes people like us) than he doesn't really belong in politics.

i really hope he gets over this and accepts what happens and grows up.

and another thign is the party did not "abandon" him or whatever people claim. he was getting full party backing including funding for another run against Schmidt. that isn't "nothing" or throwing him aside. many people, especially those who have been working for the party for years would love to have that.

[Peace Patriot]

132. In Pennsylvania, the bipartisan election theft gang has called upon the

Bush junta "Justice" Department to stomp all over a citizen group that just won a lawsuit against ES&S election theft machines (i.e., Chalcedon Foundation--death for homosexuals--same funder, Howard Ahmanson--see above). Pennsylvania has a state CONSTITUTIONAL provision that voters must okay any new method of voting. State/county officials ignored the PA Constitution, and ram-rodded through electronic voting, with the votes counted by Bushite corporation ES&S in secret. Citizens in several counties have filed suit to stop this crap. One of the groups just won, in court. Judge said the county has to use PAPER BALLOTS for Fed elections this year. Both Dem and Repug election officials, and the Bush junta, and the War Democrats, hate honest, simple paper ballots, because some anti-war candidate might win. So they are all ganging up on the citizen groups to shut them down on appeal--an appeal that might go to the Bush junta Supreme Court, which of course will rule in favor of Chalcedonian ES&S election theft machines, no matter what the U.S. or Pennsylvania Constitutions say.

The U.S. Constitution gives the power over election systems to the states. No if's, and's or but's. A Congressional bill--like Tom Delay's and Bob Ney's election corruption bill, HAVA--should not supersede that state power. But that's what the Bush junta, and the Dem/Repug electronic voting cabal, is claiming: that HAVA supersedes the U.S. Constitution (which gives the state of PA the right to require voter okay of election systems).

This law in Pennsylvania--the state Constitutional provision that voters must approve voting systems--is anathema to the Bushites (and collusive Democrats). They want to get rid of it. They are targeting it. They will not permit citizens and voters to choose their voting method. They want to impose Diebold and ES&S by force.

See
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x414326

Help the good citizens of Pennsylvania fight the bad guys: SEND DONATIONS TO

D-PAC   P.O. Box 2208   Butler, PA 16003-2208
Write "Legal Defense Fund" on the memo line

Great web site for the citizens group (D-PAC) trying to save the Penn. election system:
www.votepa.us


---------------------

In California, Schwarzenegger appointee Bruce Mcpherson has re-certified Diebold election theft machines behind closed doors--in violation of all shorts of state and Fed rules and laws--in a desperate bid to get these machines in place before November, when both of these Bushites have to face California voters.

See. www.debrabowen.com

----------------------

There is a REASON why the Bush junta and its Dem enablers are so anxious to get these hackable, crap-ass election theft machines in place ASAP--in Pennsylvania, California, New York (where torture-memo writer Alberto Gonzales is also threatening a Fed lawsuit to force HAVA election theft down the voters' throats), in Maryland (where it's the Repug governor who opposes Diebold), and other places that aren't yet fully assimilated into the Borg Collective.

Because people are getting on to it. They've already done their best to make it a fait accompli. But it isn't quite yet. There are holes in the uniform election theft picture. Oregon, for instance, which insists on fuddy-duddy old paper mail-in votes. Parts of California--including Alameda County and others--that want mail-in. 30% of Californians overall requested absentee ballots last time, because they are so suspicious of the machines. An important Florida election official recently rebelled, and tossed Diebold out of his county, and is looking askance at ES&S. And there are grass roots election reform groups springing up all over the county--bent on restoring TRANSPARENT elections.

So, they've got to get more Borgs in place--more even than they have now--in Congress, and in state offices--to STOP this trend. And they've GOT TO SPEND all those billions and billions of HAVA dollars real fast, so as to make the EXPENSE the excuse for KEEPING the machines.

And, finally, if you still don't think all this is a major, Priority #1 problem--like I do--consider what transpired in the recent state election in Ohio. They were four ELECTION REFORM initiatives on the ballot--all good ones--predicted to win by 60/40 majorities, all the way up to election day. But, somehow, these 60/40 majorities got flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES! --the biggest flipover we've seen yet.* The machines and their masters are now dictating election system policy. And you thought the Borg was a StarTrek TV show?

Bob Koehler article on the four election reform initiatives in Ohio:
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

SOME ELECTION REFORM RESOURCES

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.UScountvotes.org (monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)
Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)

Also of interest:
Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

----------------------------

*(The most devastating flipover--although it wasn't as big as the Ohio initiative flipover--was the 2004 election itself, which flipped an estimated 4% to 5% Kerry win into a 2.5% Bush win. On election day, 2004, Kerry was winning the election consortium exit polls all day long. Then, late in the day, the reporting system went down (reportedly "crashed") for about an hour, and, when it came back up, suddenly Bush was winning. What had happened in the interim is that the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, acting in concert through one pollster (Edison-Mitofsky) had FALSIFIED their exit poll numbers--in ridiculous, impossible ways--to force them to "fit" the numbers coming in through an AP computer from Diebold's and ES&S's secret formula vote tabulation. The real exit polls--which were obtained by alert bloggers and statisticians, and later admitted to by the pollster--said Kerry won by a 3% margin. If all the votes had been counted--that is, If you figure in the millions of Kerry votes that were suppressed that day, by Bushite election officials in Ohio and other places, and the prior purged black voter registrations (which Greg Palast estimates at one million nationwide), Kerry likely won by several percentages higher than 3% (of the cast votes, as reflected in the exit polls)--more like 4% to 5% (of the actual vote, if everyone who had wanted to vote had been able to).

(In any case, Kerry won--that is my firm conviction, and that of many other people, after looking at all the evidence--and what the war profiteering corporate news monopolies did to the American people that night was to deny them major evidence of election fraud--the real exit poll numbers--an action that helped to squelch protests and calls for investigation. The journalistic crime of the ages, in my opinion. I have never seen anything worse, and I've lived a long and active political life. The corporate news monopolies were directly complicit in the stolen election--and it's one of the reason why they have black-holed this story more than any other. They are guilty of DOCTORING the exit poll numbers on everybody's TV screens to make them seem to confirm a Bush win.)

--------------------------

We need an emoticon to show Democrats with their heads up their asses. I put the following emoticons together in lieu of that.

DEMOCRATS TRYING TO GET ELECTED WITH RIGHTWING BUSHITE CORPORATION "COUNTING" ALL THE VOTES BEHIND A VEIL OF SECRECY = :crazy: + :silly: + :puke: + :mad: + :wtf: + :argh: + :shrug: + :grr: + :banghead: + :cry: + :scared: + :hide: .

[Peace Patriot]

145. I just wonder, is everybody here DEAF? You keep talking about electing

people in Ohio. Ohio is a Republican tyranny--the worst in the country. In Ohio, they used their election theft machinery to flip 60/40 wins on the recent election reform initiatives into 60/40 LOSSES! The only way you can overcome Bushite control of the vote tabulation--control that is unafraid to go that far, a 60/40 flip--is to have a candidate who is way, way, way, way, way out of the mainstream butchery and thievery of Washington DC. Sherrod Brown may be an okay guy. And I like what I hear about him being in an anti-Bush peace protest--and voting against HAVA. But he is too smooth, too slick, too establishment, too hand-picked by the War Democrats, too tied to War Democrats' money, to blow the Bushites away in the manner needed to overcome the terrific disadvantage of the rigged machines.

Ordinary efforts cannot overcome such an overwhelming disadvantage as you have in Ohio, in the egregiously rigged machines--combined with other tyrannical control, and, from what I can see, a very weak and corrupt Dem Party (moreso than most). You need an UNUSUAL candidate--and that is exactly what the collusive national and state Dem powers prevented you from having. Because they don't want to win in Ohio. They apparently like Ohio the way it is--a place that forces poor black voters into 5 hour lines to vote, out in the rain and the cold, a state whose government lacks basic decency. They said nothing about the indecency--so I can only figure they like it. And they don't want any more antiwar votes in Congress. They are pro-war. So they have !@#$%^'ed you over. They did it to you in 2004. They did it to you long before 2004, by letting these election theft machines be put into place, with no protest. They did it to you after 2004, by letting the single most corrupt election process in the country just go on by--barely noted. Tough luck, Ohio Democrats. And they've done it to you again.

These problems are present everywhere in the country--in the election system, with Bush junta tyranny and with collusive Democrats--but Ohio takes the cake. And your state did not become a Bushite tyranny--just like our nation has not become a Bushite tyranny--without the help of the same Democratic Party leaders who just deprived you of your best chance of beating the machines.

I really, really don't like discouraging people. But I also believe that we must strategize on the basis of truth and reality. And, in my opinion, Ohio's progressive Democrats need to address the election SYSTEM first, and candidates and elections second. You need to shove aside the corrupt Democrats who have permitted this egregiously non-transparent election system to be installed, and fight with all your resources and energy for transparent elections. And if you can't achieve transparent election reform--or even an improved election system--by ballot initiative, in the dirty rotten lowdown rigged NON-TRANSPARENT election system that is in place, then you have to find some other way to do it, possibly by pressuring COUNTY election officials--exposing them, embarrassing them, investigating them, suing them, getting rid of them, one by one.

A Democratic Party that will not fight for your right to vote is a Democratic Party that is just a money vacuum machine--and one that has the nerve to come in there and dictate who your candidate will be. You need to take over your Party at every level. You need to clean house, so that the next time around, YOU, the activists and citizens and progressives of Ohio (whom I have no doubt are the real majority in Ohio, just like we are nationally) get to pick your own candidate in a fair and open contest.

[Generator]

137. He's changed his tone

Now he out and out is blaming Brown directly. What proof does he have? I have to say if it were I, and I cannot imagine fighting in Iraq, but if I did, and somebody lied about me torturing people or doing something horrible-I don't think I want to help them out either. And that most of you would put the Democratic party before your own honor is kinda stunning. That is if you can imagine yourself in his shoes, which is almost impossible for me anyway. But still. I would hope he has some proof that he believes without a doubt. I find it strange also that everyone at the meeting gave him a standing ovation. What the hell is happening in Ohio? Of course, yes, he should shut up for the good of the party-but I don't know his point-revenge? Anyway, the whole thing is fascinating and I don't think we have heard the last of it.

[0rganism]

138. Brown has to clean this up himself, ASAP

Whatever the deal is with Hackett, Brown has to show that he can take some initiative to disarm this right away, or it will cost him votes in November, big time.

Brown needs to go public and say that he respects and admires Hackett's commitment to serving his country, and condemn any rumors spread about Hackett's service REGARDLESS OF WHO'S SPREADING THEM. If his own campaign staff is spreading such rumors, Brown should take this opportunity to show how serious he is about it by FIRING THEIR ASSES. Right now this is the #1 barrier to his beating DeWine in November -- the first of many -- and he's got to deal with it or he may as well start writing his concession speech and planning for life after congress.

Ball's in his court. He can play it or lose the point.

[Peace Patriot]

148. "...the #1 barrier to his beating DeWine...". It's good advice, Organism,

for Sherrod Brown. And it's possible that what ticked Hackett off was hearing these rumors AGAIN. After all the swiftboating that's been done--smearing of honorable soldiers by Bushite slimebags--it must infuriate him that Democrats are now doing the same rotten, slimebag thing--if that's what is happening, rumors that he keeps hearing. But I don't agree that it's "the #1 barrier." The #1 barrier" for anybody decent getting elected is Diebold, and the 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code in its election theft machines, and the absence of adequate audit/recount controls.

Non-transparent elections are not elections. They are tyranny. And until we change this, we will be living in tyranny.

[0rganism]

152. The proprietary voting machines are indeed a major problem

I just don't know if they're one Sherrod Brown can address in this context, though. Maybe they are. The smearing of Hackett, on the other hand, is something that Brown can and must address, cos if he doesn't, DeWine won't need any help from Diebold.

[EFerrari]

147. . . . .

[neuvocat]

151. Last time I heard Sherrod Brown on AAR

he was essentially agreeing with Bush on the whole "I didn't know anything about the port deal until it was approved" nonsense. Barbara Boxer was on AAR later in the afternoon and called that line a bunch of bull. I don't think Brown is the best choice and I don't think he'll beat De-Wine.

[JerseygirlCT]

159. He's not doing himself any favors.

Boy are those distasteful remarks and distasteful behavior!

What this tells me is that he's been in it for himself, not the betterment of the country, not the Democratic party. Comments like these lead me to believe we're better off w/o him.

[staticstopper]

165. I hope Hackett

teaches the old school "be nice" Dems a lesson...they need one, they're still soft.

We the people are not. Having most of our freedoms taken away ain't "nice"

Ya, keep the old system, it worked just fine.

[PBass]

166. STOP fanning the flames

"Never Call Retreat (Hacketts' Grudge)"

What a load of crap. Hackett pulled out. That wasn't a retreat?

STOP TRYING TO STIR UP SHIT.

[JerseygirlCT]

167. And this behavior of his is achieving what, exactly?

GOP Senator re-elected perhaps?

He's not saying: "Brown, I'm holding you publicly to strong stands on the things we Democrats believe in." Fine. Good. That's productive.

He's whining about how he was treated, blaming the Dem. candidate, and dissing the party. That's not productive.

[maddezmom]

174. locking

This thread has run it's course by inflammatory responses and personal attacks by folks on both sides of the Brown/Hackett debate.