Colombian paramilitaries disarm

[Bacchus39]

Paramilitary Groups Disarm in Colombia Wed Feb 15, 10:03 PM ET



BOGOTA, Colombia - Hundreds of paramilitary fighters handed in their weapons and renounced violence Wednesday in a ceremony in southern Colombia, the country's peace commissioner said.



Separately, the U.S. Embassy in Colombia said it would not penalize companies for hiring former members of armed groups that Washington considers terrorist organizations — a declaration that may help the fighters abandon warfare and crime.

The 552 combatants who disarmed were members of the Central Bolivar Bloc of the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, or AUC, considered by the United States as a terrorist organization with links to major drug traffickers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060216/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/colombia_paramilitaries;_ylt=AsgJ_x5xLD4UFMBR205uKOVvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--


meanwhile:


BOGOTA, Colombia - Rebels attacked a crew that was removing coca plants from one of Colombia's national parks and killed at least six police guards Wednesday, authorities said.


The government in January began a risky operation to manually eradicate thousands of acres of coca — the green bush used to make cocaine — from the Sierra Macarena National Park, 100 miles south of Bogota.

[Judi Lynn]

1. U.N. slams Colombian paramilitary law

U.N. slams Colombian paramilitary law
BOGOTA, Feb. 15 (UPI) -- The United Nations has slammed Colombia in a recent report for its controversial law allowing paramilitaries to go free after turning in weapons.

Released earlier this week, the report condemns the "Peace and Justice" law put forward by Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, the Miami Herald reported Wednesday.

The law allows right-wing paramilitary soldiers to lay down their arms and go free or serve reduced sentences.

Many of them, however, are suspected of killings, drug trafficking and human rights violations.
(snip/...)

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060215-120649-4408r

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted on Wed, Feb. 15, 2006
COLOMBIAU.N.: Amnesty plan benefits abusers
The U.N. human rights office in Colombia strongly criticized the government's peace agreements with right-wing militias.
BY STEVEN DUDLEY
[e-mail]

~snip~

The U.N. report says some 15,000 paramilitary fighters had demobilized through 2005, including several commanders who are wanted in Colombia for massacres and in the United States for drug trafficking. But the government had only collected 7,300 guns and 1,670 pistols, the report added.

The government has said it is investigating these paramilitaries for grave human rights violations and drug trafficking, and promised to jail human rights violators for up to eight years and exclude drug traffickers from the benefits of the amnesty law.
But the UNHCR report says the law does not adequately address several key issues, making it difficult to verify whether the government investigations are thorough or justice is served, and making it nearly impossible to ensure reparations for victims.

''If you do not clarify what has happened, you will not be able to know what are the structures of these armed illegal groups, what their weapons have been, what their properties or assets have been,'' Michael Fruhling, the director of the UNHCR in Colombia, told The Miami Herald.

``Therefore you will not be able to verify adequately if they have been dismantled . . ., if there still are weapons out there.''
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/13874196.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last Updated: Wednesday, 15 February 2006, 10:28 GMT
Mass graves unearthed in Colombia

Mass graves have been found in Colombia, containing the bodies of 21 people thought to have been killed by a paramilitary unit, the authorities say.
The remains were discovered in the banana-growing region of Cienaga, on the country's Caribbean coast.

Officials believe the killings happened between 2002 and 2004.

The paramilitary unit involved, the Northern Bloc, is due to demobilise as part of a controversial peace process with the government.

The faction belongs to Colombia's biggest militia group, the United Self-Defence Forces of Colombia (AUC).

'Mutilated'

Forensic experts, using sniffer dogs, discovered the graves 740km (450 miles) north of the Colombian capital, Bogota.

"Many of the victims had been shot dead, and some of the bodies were mutilated," the attorney general's office said.

The authorities said they could not rule out the possibility of finding more mass graves in the area.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4715346.stm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Colombian towns choose peace over justice

By Dan Molinski, Associated Press Writer | July 14, 2005

PAJONAL, Colombia --Mariano Guerrero watched in horror as paramilitary gunmen broke into his home and dragged his son off into the night.
For two years, the 75-year-old cattle worker desperately awaited word of his fate -- until a couple of street dogs in April inadvertently dug up what turned out to be a mass grave outside this dusty village in northwest Colombia.

"We quickly realized it contained the remains of my son," Guerrero said while angrily chomping on a cigar.

On Thursday, the 600-strong right-wing militia blamed for the murder -- known as the "Heroes of Montes de Maria" -- will formally disband and turn in its weapons under a peace process with the government that critics say gives impunity to those who massacred civilians.

But in villages like Pajonal, where paramilitary fighters for years sowed terror during their dirty war against Marxist rebels and their suspected sympathizers, victims say they are prepared to sacrifice justice if it means they can finally live in peace.

"We've had more than enough of them," said Guerrero. "We just want them to stay away."
(snip/...)

http://www.boston.com/news/world/latinamerica/articles/2005/07/14/colombian_towns_choose_peace_over_justice/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AI Index: AMR 23/019/2005 1 September 2005

The Paramilitaries in Medellín:
Demobilization or Legalization?

INTRODUCTION

On 25 November 2003 television viewers in Colombia watched as over 860 paramilitaries belonging to Medellín’s Cacique Nutibara Bloc (Bloque Cacique Nutibara, BCN), laid down their arms in a highly-staged ceremony in front of Colombian and foreign dignitaries. The apparent neutralization of the BCN appeared to vindicate the government’s decision to officially begin talks with the Self-Defence Forces of Colombia (Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia, AUC), to which most paramilitary groups belong, including the BCN, following the announcement of the AUC’s unilateral ceasefire in December 2002.

The Medellín ceremony marked the first of a series of large-scale demobilizations of AUC-linked paramilitary groups around the country. Through these demobilizations, the government has claimed that more than 8,000 paramilitaries – out of a total of 10,000-20,000, depending on the source quoted – have thus far been removed from the conflict, and that all remaining paramilitary combatants will be demobilized by the end of 2005.

All parties to Colombia’s 40-year-old armed conflict – the security forces, army-backed paramilitaries and guerrilla groups – have committed serious human rights abuses and shown a blatant disregard for international humanitarian law. But in recent years most killings, "disappearances", and cases of forced displacement and torture have been and are still attributed to paramilitary groups.(1) Terror tactics are routinely employed to break perceived or imagined links between civilian communities and guerrilla groups and to silence those campaigning for socio-economic rights or justice in cases of human rights violations.
(snip/...)

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR230192005

[Bacchus39]

2. I didn't think we needed anymore "meddling" in Colombia

I would think that the peace process should be directed by Colombia itself. no more foreign intervention right Judy????

[Judi Lynn]

3. Right. I don't recommend meddling. n/t

[Kagemusha]

4. I think everyone who gives even a tiny damn about that country

is hoping this actually helps and that even fraudulent peace may become real peace if people practice it long enough. Better than just buying more ammo from America.

[happydreams]

5. They were probably cutting loose from their moorings (read: US fascisti

and decided to get a little PR boost on the way out. It's a hopeful sign that the Bush junta is losing clout in the region.

Maybe Columbia could hire Hugo Chavez to straighten out the country. Heck, he's right next door and doing a smack-up job in Venezuela.

[happydreams]

6. self-delete

[Bacchus39]

8. Colombia already has enough poverty

why would they need Chavez to give them more? Colombians aren't particularly fond of Chavez.

[happydreams]

11. Chavez promotes poverty? Oh yea,

feeding and educating the poor promotes poverty. :eyes:

Did your "weegee" board tell you that Columbians don't like Chavez? Or did you read a CIA Intel brief?

[Bacchus39]

13. no, Colombians don't like Chavez, why would they???

I never said he promotes poverty. I question his results. Poverty has increased under Chavez. check out the UN Human Development Index over the past 8 or 9 years. I am all for education, feeding, and providing for the poor.

I simply question his results. He talks alot though.

By the way, its Colombian with two "o"s not Columbian.

[Judi Lynn]

14. Oh, nice try. You use your thread on Colombia as a base from which

to throw around a little misinformation about Hugo Chavez. So elegant!

Economic Growth is a Home Run in Venezuela

By Mark Weisbrot

CARACAS - "Viva Chavez," shouted Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, as the team celebrated its World Series sweep last week. Guillen is Venezuelan, and a national hero in this country of 25 million people who seem to believe that they too, along with Chicagoans, have won the World Series.

His cheer for the country's leftist President Hugo Chavez might have caused some reaction just a year or two ago. But these days it went largely unnoticed, despite the continuing hostility between the Chavez government and the Bush administration. Relations between the two governments have been sour since the Bush administration supported a military coup against Chavez in April 2002, as well as a failed attempt to recall him last year.

But Chavez' popularity is now among the highest of any president in Latin America, with a 77 percent approval rating, according to the latest polling.

A few economic statistics go a long way in explaining why the Venezuelan government is doing so well and the opposition, which still controls most of the media and has most of the country's income, is flagging.

After growing nearly 18 percent last year, the Venezuelan economy has expanded 9.3 percent for the first half of this year - the fastest economic growth in the hemisphere. Although the government's detractors like to say this is just a result of high oil prices, it is not so simple.

Oil prices were even higher and rose much faster in the 1970s. But Venezuela's income per person actually fell during the 1970s. In fact, for the 28 years that preceded the current government (1970-1998), Venezuela suffered one of the worst economic declines in Latin America and the world: per capita income fell by 35 percent. This is a worse decline than even sub-Saharan Africa suffered during this period, and shows how completely dysfunctional the economic policies of the old system had become.

Although Chavez talks about building "21st century socialism," the Venezuelan government's economic policies are gradualist reform, more akin to a European-style social democracy. The private sector is actually a larger share of the Venezuelan economy today than it was before Chavez took office.

One important reform, long advocated by the International Monetary Fund, has been the improvement of tax collection. By requiring both foreign and domestically-owned companies to pay the taxes they owe, the government actually increased tax collection even during the deep recession of 2003 -- a rare economic feat.

As a result, the government is currently running a budget surplus, despite billions of dollars of increased social spending that now provides subsidized food to 40 percent of the population, health care for millions of poor people, and greatly increased education spending. The official poverty rate has fallen to 38.5 percent from its most recent peak of 54 percent after the opposition oil strike. But this measures only cash income; if the food subsidies and health care were taken into account, it would be well under 30 percent.
(snip/...)

http://www.cepr.net/columns/weisbrot/2005_11_01.htm

[Bacchus39]

15. yeah, I know oil certainly has been beneficial hasn't it

its kind of odd though that the poverty issue remains sticky then doesn't it?

I wasn't throwing in a jab at Chavez at all on this thread about Colombia. I responded to another poster's really absurd post about Colombia should hire Chavez to run their country.

and no, I don't think Chavez's results have matched his rhetoric.

[Judi Lynn]

16. Sticky poverty issue? What must it have been for all the acceptable

Presidents BEFORE 1999, who were completely supported by the U.S., including Carlos Andres Perez, who ordered his military to fire into protesting poor, killing between 200 (his number) and 3000 people (numbers estimated by everyone else) in the horrendous disaster called the "El Caracazo" massacre, the same man, friend of _{George W. Bush} who was IMPEACHED for corruption and embezzlement, who is STILL the darling of the Venezuelan oligarchy?

It took generations of oligarchical rule to get the society so rigidly goddawful. Your claim that Venezuela has a poverty issue, and your insinuation this is Hugo Chavez's fault because he hasn't totally transformed an entire country completely in 7 years lack a bit of good old-fashioned wholesomeness.

I would suggest the article I posted before your last post has some information which would well contradict your implication Chavez is ineffectual against the "poverty issue."

[Bacchus39]

17. economic growth versus poverty

your post had absolutely nothing to do with poverty Judy. It was about growth due entirely to the spike in oil prices. Saudi Arabi Kuwait and a host of oil producing nations have benefitted from the oil prices not just Venezuela. Here are some stats from a source I am sure you will appreciate. http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1220

the poverty index has gone up in Venezuela and per capita income has gone down. you posted a recent link on some sort of misery index where Colombia was 14th. well, Venezuela was 21st. also, transparency international, an organization that you derided on the one hand, but then cited on the other when it suited your purposes, shows that Venezuela suffers from extreme corruption.

7 years is a fairly long time to show some progress. the spike in oil prices has nothing to do with Chavez's policies. in the 70s during the "oligarchy" Venezuela also enjoyed huge windfalls from oil revenue. during this time in the 70s and early 80s much of Venezuela's infrastructure was constructed with that oil revenue. The Caracas subway, the gondola tram in Caracas, the gondola in Merida among others. Lately the infrastructure has fallen into disrepair. Including a bridge on the main highway from the airport to Caracas is closed as it was determined that collapse was imminent.

what used to be a 45 minute taxi ride from the airport to Caracas is now a 4.5 hour journey. All is not rosy in Venezuela under Chavez.

[Flanker]

37. Most of your data is outdated

HDI is very close to 0.800 by government calculations (UN takes its sweet time to compile and update this statistic)

Poverty is also down by various standards:

A) The government meassures 'extreme poverty' as income below a "food basket" as of Dec 05 it was 387 thousand Bolivars ($180) a month. It also meassures 'poverty' as income below twice that ammount.



As you can see in this graph blue denotes non-extreme poverty and yellow extreme poverty. Today that number stands as 24% and 13% respectively.

B) Private pollster Datos also meassures stratified income for Venamcham. This was their recent report.

http://www.datosir.com/images/perspectivas2006.pdf



E is the sub-group that lives in the 'barrios' D is mid to poor and C- the middle class. As you can see for group E income rose by 53% in 2004 (33% adjusted for inflation) and 32% (17% adjusted) in 2005. Of course there is no historical context with the previous years of sabotage but it is nevertheless good for the poor.

C) Minimum wage is currently the 2-3rd highest in the region ($216) behind Chile($236) and perhaps Argentina($210).

Of course that is only income if you include the help of subsidized food and meals the figure is also lower.

That said there has been little attention paid to the homeless population, so much so that Chavez failed to keep his campaign promise to change his name if children still lived in the street after a few years. There was a new mision created to specifically address this problem, lets see the results.

Corruption has always been a problem.

The spike in oil has had to do with Chavez, to what degree it is debatable, Venezuela and Iran are the price hawk wing in Opec, with limited SA production capacity they have reached far more power within the cartel since its inception.

As for the Bridge to Caracas-Maiquetia it was just plain bad luck.

[Judi Lynn]

50. Found some news which will cheer you, no doubt, re: that highway

Feb. 26, 2006, 1:38PM
Venezuela Reopens Major Highway to Airport


© 2006 The Associated Press

CARACAS, Venezuela — Venezuelan authorities on Sunday reopened a highway between the country's main airport and the capital, ending a nearly two-month transport crisis.

Officials inaugurated a freshly paved 2.4-kilometer (1.5-mile) route that bypasses the collapsing bridge that forced the highway's closure Jan. 5.

The closure of the highway linking Caracas and Vargas _ home to the country's main international airport and second-largest seaport _ hurt businesses, disrupted shipments and snarled traffic.

In the first nine months of 2005, 35.4 percent of the country's imports passed through the La Guaira seaport. Thousands of residents also commute daily to the capital for work or study.
(snip/...)http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/3686745.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sounds like they're back in bidness again.

[Bacchus39]

53. yippie, now its not such a "goddawful" commute

n/t

[Bacchus39]

18. Godawful society??

when wasn't Venezuelan society godawful as YOU say? during the colonial era with slavery? during Simon Bolivar's reign over Gran Colombia that lasted about 3 years?

your labeling of Venezuelan society as godawful is condescending at best and downright arrogant. there are few societies as wealthy or sophisticated as the US. however, the love of family, the warmth of the people, and the general festive nature in general of latin american people is something us American can learn from these "godawful" societies.

there is no latin american country that doesn't have poverty issues especially compared to the US.

Venezuela is not exactly speeding ahead of other latin nations. Venezuela continues to suffer from the same chronic problems that just about all latin countries suffer from. Corruption, poverty, crime, unemployment, government that doesn't follow their own laws.

[Judi Lynn]

19. Hi. Sorry, I can't stay, only stopped in to see what you've written on

your Colombia thread about Venezuela.

I only had time to search for a moment, so I've got only a couple of paragraphs located which might have any bearing on what I've written about the formerly goddawful arrangement for most of Venezuela's population over the many years, with so many very, very poor, and only a very few wildly wealthy at the top who controlled EVERYTHING. It's completely easy for anyone to grasp, so attempting to (((( spin )))) a different interpretation won't really work. Nice try, again.

Chávez leads the way

In using oil wealth to help the poor, Venezuela's leader is an example to Latin America

Richard Gott in Caracas
Monday May 30, 2005
The Guardian

~ snip ~
What is undoubtedly old fashioned about Chávez is his ability to talk about race and class, subjects once fashionable that have long been taboo, and to discuss them in the context of poverty. In much of Latin America, particularly in the countries of the Andes, the long-suppressed native peoples have begun to organise and make political demands for the first time since the 18th century, and Chávez is the first president in the continent to have picked up their banner and made it his own.

For the past six years the government has moved ahead at a glacial rate, balked at every turn by the opposition forces ranged against it. Now, as the revolution gathers speed, attention will be directed towards dissension and arguments within the government's ranks, and to the ever-present question of delivery. In the absence of powerful state institutions, with the collapse of the old political parties and the survival of a weak, incompetent and unmotivated bureaucracy, Chávez has mobilised the military from which he springs to provide the backbone to his revolutionary reorganisation of the country. Its success in bringing adequate services to the shanty towns in town and country will depend upon the survival of his government. If it fails, the people will come out to block the motorway and demand something different, and yet more radical.
(snip)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1495260,00.html

[manic expression]

58. A society's problems

have little to do with its culture.

"...however, the love of family, the warmth of the people, and the general festive nature in general of latin american people is something us American can learn from these 'godawful' societies."

I completely agree, but that is about culture. No one here is saying that any of these things should (or even could) be changed.

The fact that much of Venezuela's wealth, like many parts of Latin America, is consolidated by the elite, the white elite, was what was being referred to. The injustices that are perpetrated by lines of race and class was what the criticism was for, and that had nothing to do with the culture.

[Bacchus39]

59. and I repeat then, when was it not goddawful?

during colonial times? she said it took centuries to create the goddawful society in Venezuela. did she mean centuries?

the US is stratafied by class too. what is an alternative to this goddawful society then? the racial implications you made are unnecessary too. the elite of many countries around the world are not necessarily white

[manic expression]

61. Well,

I can't speak for her, so you'll have to settle with asking for my opinion.

The US has quite a goddawful society if one really looks at it. African-Americans have been oppressed for centuries, the poor and lower classes have been treated like dirt and left out in the cold throughout our history. America itself was founded on murder and genocide against the native peoples. This is all ignoring our history of imperialism and wrongdoing in foreign affairs.

I dare anyone to go to the inner cities and drive out into the surrounding suburban areas. As the houses and the neighborhoods get nicer, the skin gets whiter. I can see this whenever I go into my local inner city area.

However, you must admit that Latin America has many problems (in society), specifically in regards to race and class. There is self-loathing among mestizos, as whiteness is seen as purity and anything indigenous is looked down upon. The poor, mostly those who are less white, have been virtually enslaved or collectively homeless or both. Only drastic changes have been able to create equity and justice. This is no different from other areas.

What is the alternative? Justice and equity. Tierra y libertad. Progress, improvement, amelioration. Change. I could go on.

The racial implications are very accurate. The elite of Latin America is very European (that much is painfully obvious), and the society looks up to this instead of taking pride in the roots of the people. The one exception I can think of is Argentina (and probably Uruguay and Paraguay as well, but I'm not sure), where many people have European blood, but that is only because they encouraged as much immigration as possible so they could "thin out" the "inferior" blood of the natives.

On edit: another exception is Cuba, where there is equity and justice instead of inequality. There is racial equality in Cuba, and there is no elite.

[Bacchus39]

62. Paraguay is mostly mestizo and Indian

I believe almost all paraguayans speak guarani in addition to Spanish.
Argentina and Uruguay are mostly white as are their poor of course.

I don't believe their is justice in Cuba whatsoever. I had agreed with most of your post until that point.

furthermore racial equity is a myth as it is in Brazil.

latin americans take very much pride in their nationality. another point I dispute you on.

universal poverty is not progress and improvement. I do not consider the US to be a goddawful society from my middle class perspective.

and relative poverty and a class system I do not consider to be the only factors making a society goddawful or not. the cultural factors I already stated are very important in a society's outlook.

[manic expression]

63. OK

I wasn't sure about Paraguay. Thanks.

There is a lot of justice in Cuba. Everyone receives free health care (world-class health care), a good education (with one of the best literacy rates in the world), shelter, food and water and other necessities. This is all with a crippling embargo, by the way. Furthermore, it is a well-known fact that the blacks of Cuba directly benefited from the revolution, the elite mostly left along with Batista and his cronies. What I have outlined above shows that ALL people of Cuba have equality. Also, the government does represent the people.

By the way, the Cuban Constitution outlaws both genocide and sexism, something the US Constitution lacks.

It's obvious that there is little racial equality in Brazil. They kill homeless kids so they don't have to deal with them potentially turning to crime later.

Latin Americans take pride in their nationality. Any fool can tell you that, all they have to do is listen to "Oye Mi Canto". However, they do not take explicit pride in their roots (many do, I'm speaking in general). Oftentimes, European-ness is looked at as superior, while things that are not are seen as inferior. Indians do not get good treatment from mestizos, and mestizos do not get good treatment from whites.

Society is a separate entity from culture. Society in India has been changing, while the culture has remained more than intact (don't believe me? Go to a Hindu temple, you might see them performing thousands of year-old rites on new cars). The society of European nations has also changed, but if you go to Europe, you will see so much heritage and so much history and so much culture. The societal conditions of a country have no direct ties to a culture.

Universal poverty? Hardly. El Salvadorean peasants have access to doctors for the first time in their lives because of FMLN's achievements, they have land to call their own because of the revolution as well. Is this poverty? No, it is giving people what they deserve, whereas they would otherwise receive little or nothing because of oppression and injustice. This is one example of many. It is universal equality, where everyone gets a fair share instead of one group (usually the white group) getting it all and leaving others in the cold with scraps. It's not poverty because if a people spreads their wealth out for all, there is MORE than enough to go around.

If you call not having an extra Hummer in the four-car garage "poverty", that is ridiculous. It is about making sure all people are treated well and have a good life, not making sure a handful have unnecessarily lavish and wantonly greedy ones while others starve.

Cuba wouldn't be poor if it wasn't for the embargoes.

YOU don't consider US society to be goddawful exactly because of your middle class perspective. However, for the people who don't have that perspective, does it matter? Absolutely not. You and I live wealthy lives while others are forced to shoulder poverty, crime, drug abuse, insecurity over the next meal, a lack of role models, a lack of societal structure, a lack of purpose, a lack of hope and worse. Is that right? Is that just? No, and it will never be. Society should provide what people need and deserve.

I hope I didn't lose my point in there.

[Bacchus39]

64. is that Aristide?

how did he do in his quest for equality?

the US Constitution does not contain every contingency. perhaps Cuba had the benefit of history in the formation of their constitution?

free medical care and literacy do not equate to progress and improvement if you live under an oppresive regime. Compare Canada and Cuba. doesn't most of Europe have high literacy and free health care? I hope you didn't miss my point. justice and liberty are also factors. Cubans do not enjoy liberty and justice is handed down by decree.

latin american society is much more integrated. a glaring exception are the indigenous. why? because of cultural differences. whites treating mestizos poorly is a gross oversimplification. enormous variations in skin tone make racial classifications impossible and obsolete. ahhh, but here in the US we are fixated with it.

find me a farmer in Guatemala or El Salvador on two cuerdas of land and ask him if he is impoverished. El Salvador has ENORMOUSLY benefitted from emigration to the States and the return of that money earned to El Salvador.

Cuba would absolutely NOT be much better off than any other latin american country if it weren't for the embargo. which I oppose to be clear. Would Castro permit people to actually earn money or would it all be in the State's hands? the Soviet Union did not produce a wealthy society. China has not either even with capitalist reforms.

[manic expression]

65. The picture in my signature?

It's Paul Kagame. He led the military force (the Rwandan Patriotic Front) into Rwanda that stopped the genocide. He is now the president of Rwanda. Of course, I'm not an expert on all of his economic policies, but I think he led a fight against insanity and disgusting atrocity when no one else would, and that is why I admire him.

The US Constitution has the benefit of being subject to change, just like any other constitution (I believe). If they wanted to outlaw genocide, they could, but the fact is that the US was founded on it. Also, the ERA was defeated at around the same time the Cuban Constitution was being ratified.

First of all, thank you for recognizing Cuba's achievements in these fields. However, Cuba does not have an oppressive regime. There is fair representation, as well as freedom of speech (that's from people who have been there). Europe, Canada and other first world countries have free medical care and high literacy rates, but you must take into account the differences in economics. All of those countries are very developed and are first-world countries, while Cuba is neither, but they maintain standards that rival those countries that are "more advanced". That, in itself, is an amazing achievement, and a testament to the fact that the people can be provided what they deserve.

Cubans do enjoy "liberty". There is freedom of speech and people are not afraid to speak their minds (again, that is from people who've been there). The elections are open and fair, and it costs no money to run for office. You can readily receive US news from a simple radio (and IIRC, the Cuban government has the ability to jam radio stations, but does not do so for stations that are not blatantly US propaganda). What problem do you have with it?

If you look at many Latin American countries, especially before their respective revolutions (by arms or ballot boxes), the whites practically controlled the whole of the wealth. That, in my book, counts as "treating mestizos badly".

Did I say they weren't impoverished? Ask them if they appreciate their access to medical care, ask them if they appreciate the land that they own, even if it is on a 75 degree slope. They will. The reason there is not more progress is because FMLN was only able to achieve partial victory in El Salvador, so there haven't been full-fledged reforms. More progress could be made if it was pursued. Also, how could equity stifle economic growth? It doesn't. They've benefited greatly because of the emigration (the economy is dependent on it), but that wasn't what started the public hospitals or the land reforms.

When Cuba defeated the US invasion at the Bay of Pigs, what did Castro ask for in return for the prisoners? In addition to money, he asked for medical supplies (from "The Americans", a textbook that my school uses). He surely didn't build himself a villa with bandages and IV's, because that was for the medical system. My point is that if the Cuban economy was allowed to grow, wages would increase, the public health and education institutions would improve even more, the economy would improve, trade would develop and more. What is there to think that this wouldn't happen? Wages were recently raised without such economic improvement. The fact that people are NOT dying in the streets and that Cubans enjoy a relatively excellent lifestyle only shows that the Cuba is providing as much as it can for the people, even under the most trying circumstances. Economic growth would not change this, only the amount of what the people would generate and justly receive.

The USSR didn't produce a wealthy society because they pooled their resources toward the military and corruption instead of where it should have went. That is not the case with Cuba, as their education and health care shows. However, the life expectancy, along with other statistics, have consistently dropped since the fall of the USSR. Rampant cronyism is not better. China can scarcely be called communist, if anything, it was Maoist.

What about Kerala? The wealthiest and most advanced state in India which has implemented many communist policies with great effectiveness.

[Judi Lynn]

66. You've undoubtedly won some enthusiastic readers and admirers

from your sound, informed, and straightforward comments on this thread. It's a joy to see them, and wonderful to read remarks from a DU'er with such REAL concern for our fellow beings.

You will undoubtedly encourage many DU'ers to pay closer and closer attention to what we're hearing and reading about Latin America and the Caribbean. So much has been concealed in this country about the other countries in this Hemisphere, and the US history with them. It needs to be discovered and studied now, in our own lifetimes. People need to be informed about what has been done in their names.

[Bacchus39]

67. I wouldn't expect a critical look at Cuba

from someone who uses a Che Guevara avatar.

I guess the US could outlaw genocide in the Constitution. I don't see it happening though, genocide that is. I don't see it as a pressing concern.

If Cuba had liberty there would be no need for them to jam signals from the US now would there? there would be access to literature, the internet, media sources besides the state, other political parties, be able to travel freely WITHOUT an exit permit from the state, to operate a business, and they wouldn't arrest dissenters now would they? but I'll just leave it at that

My entire point was that Canada and Western Europe have free health care and high literacy AND are 1st world countries. thank you for making my point. You need not have an authoritarian regime to have those things. and as you pointed out, Cuba is not a 1st world nation.

The Soviet Union enjoyed signficant natural resources that could be developed as well. Cuba does not enjoy that luxury, yet still the system did not produce the wealth that the west does. what makes you think Cuba would with very limited resources?

the FMLN is what caused the emigration to the USA in the first place. I guess you could contribute the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people to the US resulting in a substancial economic return as a benefit of the FMLN as well.

perhaps the FARC should step up their activities in Colombia too. displacing hundreds of thousands of Colombians and killing others, so that Colombia's future becomes brighter too.

[Judi Lynn]

68. disappearances,displacement & torture are still attributed to paramilitary

AI Index: AMR 23/019/2005 1 September 2005

The Paramilitaries in Medellín:
Demobilization or Legalization?

INTRODUCTION

On 25 November 2003 television viewers in Colombia watched as over 860 paramilitaries belonging to Medellín’s Cacique Nutibara Bloc (Bloque Cacique Nutibara, BCN), laid down their arms in a highly-staged ceremony in front of Colombian and foreign dignitaries. The apparent neutralization of the BCN appeared to vindicate the government’s decision to officially begin talks with the Self-Defence Forces of Colombia (Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia, AUC), to which most paramilitary groups belong, including the BCN, following the announcement of the AUC’s unilateral ceasefire in December 2002.

The Medellín ceremony marked the first of a series of large-scale demobilizations of AUC-linked paramilitary groups around the country. Through these demobilizations, the government has claimed that more than 8,000 paramilitaries – out of a total of 10,000-20,000, depending on the source quoted – have thus far been removed from the conflict, and that all remaining paramilitary combatants will be demobilized by the end of 2005.

All parties to Colombia’s 40-year-old armed conflict – the security forces, army-backed paramilitaries and guerrilla groups – have committed serious human rights abuses and shown a blatant disregard for international humanitarian law. But in recent years most killings, "disappearances", and cases of forced displacement and torture have been and are still attributed to paramilitary groups.(1) Terror tactics are routinely employed to break perceived or imagined links between civilian communities and guerrilla groups and to silence those campaigning for socio-economic rights or justice in cases of human rights violations.
(snip/...)

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR230192005

[Bacchus39]

69. the paramilitaries are bad, so is the FARC

can you even say that Judy??


Colombian Rebels Kill Eight Councilors By DAN MOLINSKI, Associated Press Writer
Mon Feb 27, 10:35 PM ET



BOGOTA, Colombia - Rebels burst into a hotel in southern Colombia where local government officials were meeting Monday and killed eight town councilors, authorities said.

ADVERTISEMENT

The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia rebels arrived in a truck disguised as police, walked into the hotel and opened fire while the officials were having a working lunch, said Gilberto Toro, head of the Colombian Federation of Municipalities.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060228/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/colombia_rebels;_ylt=AvaUDMknRqVS80VqFnP6TfC3IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--

[Judi Lynn]

70. I've been posting articles which bear out MOST of the killings

are to be laid at the feet of the paramilitaries, as well as voter intimidation. I will just keep posting them, apparently.

There's no similarity whatsoever between the two bodies, as reflected in the articles anyone can find.

It's pointless to keep trying to bring it up with me, as anyone with half a brain only has to do a little research to know what the situation is.

I also posted one recently describing the discovery of bodies of villagers which the paramilitaries had actually dressed to look like FARCs. Now that's one for the books. They would go that far to avoid more attention to the fact they slaughter innocent, unarmed citizens.



Carlos Castaño, Mr. Paramilitary Leader

One look is all it takes.

[Bacchus39]

71. right and the FARC doesn't kill innocents??

you are clueless. why don't you go to Colombia and ask the people there their opinion of the FARC??

that dude kind of looks like Chavez but not as ugly.

[manic expression]

72. I don't expect, but would appreciate

someone to concentrate on the facts instead of what avatar another poster has.

Did you hear what I said? Cuba has jammed radio signals that carry only US propaganda, as in content that encourages the overthrow of the Cuban government. Would you expect the US to allow radio signals from al-Qaeda? No, and it is the exact same thing.

The US doesn't outlaw genocide because it would put our entire history of ethnic cleansing and murder against the natives of this land in question. We might actually have to stop screwing over the natives, or even give them what they rightfully own. But, of course, no one sees that happening.

People do have access to media sources besides the state, as they can get any US news source from a simple radio. You blatantly ignored what I said in my post. Political parties are not involved in the election process. Most countries do not allow their citizens to enter and exit without documentation. Most people who leave the US to go to places other than Canada experience this. The economy is nationalized, and therefore helps the people who deserve it and not the few and their companies. They don't arrest dissenters for dissent, they arrest "dissenters" for taking money from an aggressive foreign power in the aim of destabilizing the country. Again, free speech is more than allowed, people are not afraid to speak their minds and dissent is tolerated to a great degree. Being an agent of Uncle Sam, however, is not tolerated.

Cuba does not have an authoritarian regime either. What is your point, exactly?

Cuba does not produce wealth because of the embargoes. It is difficult to generate wealth when practically no trade can be developed. The fact that the people do experience a good lifestyle (relatively) with these troubles is nothing short of amazing. If this unfair burden was lifted, Cuba would generate far more wealth which would go to the people.

The civil war caused the emigration. What caused the civil war? That's right, the gunning down of Oscar Romero by RW death squads for speaking on behalf of the poor. FMLN, in reaction to this disgusting assassination, began to fight the plutocratic government. The government was guilty of most, if not almost all, of the crimes (see El Mozote) during the war. This caused the displacement of hundreds of thousands to the US, which was a country that fully supported the elitist government and their countless atrocities. Again, FMLN is the reason for the public hospitals and land reform.

On FARC, if those activities will create change and progress, why should they not be stepped up? The fact is that Colombia has many problems which run very deep, and these need to be met.

[RagingInMiami]

20. "society so rigidly goddawful."

That's quite a generalization for someone who apparently has never visited any country in Latin America.

[happydreams]

28. You and Bacchus (Goddess of Wine) seemed to be fixated

on the word "goddawful". :crazy:

[WhiteTara]

51. Mythical Bacchus was male

[Judi Lynn]

52. Yep, that was simply perplexing. It caught me some heat.

What a goddawful shame. n/t

[Posteritatis]

60. Gotta love how "disagreement" == "disinformation" now. Mm, paranoia. (n/t)

[manic expression]

57. Poverty is decreasing in Venezuela

but since when did you care about facts?

In fact, the economy took a big hit when many companies practically shut the entire country down. That is the reason unemployment rose, NOT Chavez. The fact that Venezuela is now improving after that is quite amazing indeed.

"I am all for education, feeding, and providing for the poor."

Who talks "a lot" now? Chavez is providing education, healthcare and justice for the people. Are you even aware of what the missions are doing (no, not the religious ones)?

[happydreams]

7. Sometimes "meddling"/pre-emptive strikes are neccessary.

When a country is a threat, etc. Even pre-emptive strikes are OK.

When a country such as Columbia is peddling drugs through your country, as they are through Venezuela, they are a "Clear and Present Danger", warranting a pre-emptive strike.

Of course it was Bush who put this doctrine into practice in Iraq so now any sovereign country can enjoy the benefits of his wisdom. :eyes:



You see how fast these kinds of idiotic doctrines can come back to bite you in the you know what.

[Bacchus39]

9. Venezuelans are doing it too

much of the cocaines comes from Peru and Bolivia and processed through Colombia. Venezuela now too is a trade route and have their own problems with the drug trade. a top drug lord was just arrested in Venezuela a few days ago.

[happydreams]

10. Got anything like a link to support the claim, if that is what you made,

about dope production in Venezuela?

[Bacchus39]

12. Venezuela is a conduit

I never said it was a producer. although I am sure there is some going on.

[happydreams]

24. "How to be a troll on your on topic"

That should be the title of your book.

My question is about pre-emptive strikes in case you have forgotten.

[RagingInMiami]

22. The dope has been run through Venezuala for years

As it's run through Mexico and Panama.

[Bacchus39]

49. Puerto Rico too

but some I guess don't want to hear anything bad about "paradise".

[Name removed]

54. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[High Plains]

56. And Guatemala and Jamaica and Puerto Rico and...

...highways across America.

One quick solution for this problem: Americans, quit buying cocaine!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

23. A COLOMBIAN drug lord I believe. Maybe one of Papi Uribe's

old partners. Who knows?

[RagingInMiami]

21. It's Colombia, not Columbia

Are you suggesting that Venezuala attack Colombia?

[happydreams]

25. Thanks for the spell check. Did you do your nails today as well?

Heck, if Colombia is a "Clear and Present danger" why not. I mean the beckon of democracy, the US, attacks other countries for no reason why can't Venezuela have the same option?

[RagingInMiami]

26. Who is saying Colombia is a "clear and present danger"?

That's a movie based on a Tom Clancy novel.

And no I didn't do my nails today. But considering I am half-Colombian, and that I have loads of family down there, and I've been there more than 20 times in my life, I get irritated when someone who doesn't even know how to spell the name of the country insists on spouting his opinions on Colombia.

[happydreams]

27. If Chavez thinks that Colambia is a clear and present danger

he should be allowed to follow the Bush fascist doctrine and take whatever action is neccessary to secure his country. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[RagingInMiami]

30. What are you, a disruptor?

[happydreams]

38. That's disrupter, not "disruptor"

hee, hee.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

31. Don't remind me. I hated that movie. I don't know what the book

might be like.

[Judi Lynn]

32. A typo doesn't mean a great D.U. poster doesn't know a hell of a lot

about U.S. policy and Latin American countries. That's the part which really involves Americans directly, through the misuse of their hard-earned taxes, and through their own moral standards.

It's always puzzling to some American-born citizens that the right-wing fringe of newcomers in South Florida actually believes it's appropriate for them to call all the shots in American foreign policy regarding Latin America and the Caribbean, with the entire nation financing and indulging their political appetites.

[RagingInMiami]

34. It wasn't a typo, it was a typical American mistake

And exactly who are you referring to when you describe "the right-wing fringe of newcomers in South Florida"? I know this conversation is not about Cuba. And have you ever been down here?

[Judi Lynn]

35. Here's a quick easy google grab which should cover it:

~snip~

For years, Miami has been the haven of choice when the anti-democratic thugs of one or another Latin American country are forced to flee their presidential palaces. The tradition runs from supporters of the Cuban dictator Batista (who, even today, include among their number the kind of terrorist Uncle Sam seems to love most -- the anti-Fidel kind) straight through to last month, when Bolivian president Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada, faced with blockades that were shutting down every city in his country, boarded a commercial flight to Miami, never to return. Miami is -- among many other things -- the financial capital of Latin America, its wealth swollen with the legal and illegal proceeds of generations of rapaciousness to the south.

For Sanchez de Lozada -- a man who had previously lived in the United States for so long that he was ridiculed back home for speaking Spanish with a thick American accent -- it was in some ways a homecoming. He, like many pro-American heads of state in the Caribbean and in Central and South America, had either gone to school here or (particularly in the case of some of the generals who've led military regimes) received training at Georgia's School of the Americas, which I profiled here yesterday.

Of late, Miami has attracted another type of notoriety -- as ground zero in the governmental war on protesters. Federal prosecutors there levied felony charges this year against Greenpeace after members of the environmental group were arrested on misdemeanor charges in a nonviolent civil disobedience. The Bush Administration's tactics are analogous to having hauled the black southern churches off to court during the civil rights era. Miami's city council recently shepherded through a "parades and demonstrations" ordinance that essentially suspends freedom of speech and assembly when the city sees fit.
(snip)

For the time being, as the walls go up in Florida, American officials will be on the wrong side of that battle. But if the recent successes in South America teach us anything, it is that -- as with the resistance in Iraq -- peoples' desire to determine their own destinies is a powerful force. Even here. Sooner or later, that wall will come down.
(snip/)

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=15992

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've also seen colorful language used to describe the heavy load carried by Florida as "Latin America's unwanted dictators have been vomited upon the shores of Florida," or something similar.

By the way, your parents should have taught you it's simply tacky to lower yourself to the point you will attack someone over a misspelling. Most of us wouldn't consider it. Not once.

On edit:

Returned to correct a MISSPELLING, caused by haste, not ignorance, not sloth, not stupidity.

[RagingInMiami]

36. This is an attack over a misspelling?

"It's Colombia, not Columbia

Are you suggesting that Venezuala attack Colombia?"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If we're going to be talking about Colombia, I just want to ensure people know how to spell it right. Wouldn't you do the same if someone is misspelling the town or city you live in?

Oh that's right, you refuse to disclose that piece of information while you sit at your computer and pass judgement on places you've never visited, picking and choosing your articles depending on how you're trying to slant your argument.

And as far as any attacks go, HappyCreams or whatever the hell name is, responded by saying:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Thanks for the spell check. Did you do your nails today as well?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I didn't take that as an attack, but it was a snide remark, not to mention sexist. But of course, HappyCreams was on your side of the issue, so naturally you decided to twist the truth by saying that I had attacked him. I'm seeing a pattern here, always twisting the truth in your favor.

Now back to your statement about the "right-wing fringe of newcomers in South Florida". That post was a response to a post where I brought in my Colombian family. I also mentioned in that post that I was born and raised in Miami.

So naturally, when you said that, I figured you were referring to my family as the "right-wing fringe of newcomers in South Florida."

That is what you meant, isn't it? After all, up until I brought it up, nobody in the thread mentioned Miami. As usual, you were trying to pass another generalization by backing it up with a select article to make people think that everybody in Miami is an exiled dictator.

The truth is, you don't have to tell me that Miami is a haven for right-wing former presidents (but you didn't mention presidents nor dictators in the first post, you said "newcomers", which I interpret as immigrants). If you ever pried yourself from your computer and actually made it down here, I can take you to the cemetary where the right-wing presidents are buried (Anastasio Somoza, Gerardo Machado and Carlos Prío Socarras).

But those right-wing presidents who have fled here are only a handful compared to Miami's actual Latin American immigrant population. If you had ever visited Miami, you may learn that most Latin Americans living here are working class people trying to live the American Dream (even the right-wing Cubans but that's another story altogether).

And if you ever pried yourself from your computer and made it down to Colombia, you would learn that the majority of Colombians just want to live in peace. That the majority of Colombians want to help the poor. That the majority of Colombians would welcome you into their homes and feed you, no matter what their income level is. And that the majority of Colombians, my family included, really resent the American involvement in their country. They just choose to bitch about it over drinks rather than take up arms.

Of course, you won't read this in the newspaper because stories about normal people living normal lives are just not newsworthy. But maybe if you do a google search, you will find that the real victims from the Colombia's civil war are neither the rebels nor the paramilitaries. They are the rural folks who have been caught in the middle and have been forced to flee to the cities where they live on the streets.

[happydreams]

39. It wasn't sexist! I've seen boys who do their nails.

}(

[happydreams]

42. Clarification on boys doing their nails. I meant

Cuban Miami greaseballs with manicured nails, a ring or two on each finger, shoestring ties, greasy silk shirts and missing teeth.

[Judi Lynn]

43. Sounds like the crowd outside Elián's uncle Lázaro Gonzalez's house.

Or, their hero, bomber/mass murderer, Luis Posada Carriles

[happydreams]

47. I saw a couple of them in my neighborhood once a few years ago.

They really looked out of place

[Bacchus39]

48. its an indication of a lack of knowlege of a topic

if you can't even spell it correctly certainly.

[happydreams]

29. Bush using drug war in Colombia to screw with Chavez

Newsbrief: Bush Administration Using Colombia Drug War to Go After Venezuela's Chavez 1/2/04
They didn't manage to get rid of him with the failed April coup attempt. Now, members of the Bush administration are using alleged links between the government of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and leftist guerrillas in neighboring Colombia to press for stronger action against Chavez. These officials claim Venezuela is providing aid and comfort to rebels of the FARC (Colombian Revolutionary Armed Forces) and the smaller ELN (National Liberation Army), who are battling the government in Bogota for control of Colombia. The US intervened in Colombia as part of its "war on drugs," but that policy has morphed into the broader "war on terror," as the Bush administration last year removed any restraints limiting US involvement to the anti-drug effort.

Chavez has long been a thorn in the side of US conservatives. A former Army paratrooper who was imprisoned after leading a failed coup in 1992, Chavez was elected president in 1998 on vows to end the rule of Venezuela's famously corrupt political class and to craft policies that favored the country's poor majority. Since then, he has become a leading critic of US policy on a broad range of issues, including Plan Colombia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Chavez currently faces a recall referendum brought by embittered members of the country's middle and upper classes with US support.

Now, reports well-connected Miami Herald columnist Juan Tamayo, Bush appointees are using questionable intelligence to bolster their case that Chavez is helping the rebels. And they are doing so as part of a campaign to oust him. The campaign has parallels with the build-up to the war against Iraq, according to Tamayo.

The clique of Bush hard-liners, led by Assistant Secretary of State for Hemispheric Affairs Roger Noriega (a former Sen. Jesse Helms staffer) and special envoy to Latin America Otto Reich (a key architect of the Reagan interventions in Central America in the 1980s) claim that Chavez's left-populist policies have at least created an atmosphere supportive of Colombian rebels and other US bogeymen and that Chavez isn't doing enough to support the US in its global "war on terror."




http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/318/chavez.shtml


So should Chavez be able to go after countries that harbor "terrorists" (those trying to overthrow his country)?

[Judi Lynn]

33. Too bad no one can force them to put up or shut up. They've lived for

years flinging around their idiotic, obnoxious charges toward all countries which won't make _{George Bush's} pleasure their countries' first priority.

When Americans pull up out of their American "Dream," and start seeing the havoc our right-wing Presidents have created, those Presidents are going to start meeting some very stiff, angry resistance at home, and demands they clean up their behavior as a matter of national self-respect, not to mention decency.

[happydreams]

40. You really bring up a good point about the wasted dollars

the taxpayers are forking over for this terror campaign by the Bushistas and other Rightie Administrations. Intervention is Latin America for the benefit of US corporations has been going on for nearly two centuries and most Americans are in the dark about it.

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

41. may my prospective grandchildren come to see this day (nt)

[happydreams]

44. A WWII Nazi and Reverend Moon do a "Cocaine coup"

....Moon's organization purchased influence through secret payments to key political figures, including former President George Bush and Religious Right leader Jerry Falwell. Moon also financed costly media outlets, such as The Washington Times. Moon has built this U.S. network even as he tells his followers that America is "Satan's harvest" and vows to subjugate the American people under a Korea-based theocracy.

The series also revealed that Moon's organization still engages in questionable financial practices. According to court records, the Moon organization has been laundering money and diverting funds to buy personal luxuries for Moon's family, including cocaine for Moon's son, Hyo Jin. The financial sleights-of-hand are reminiscent of offenses that led to Moon's conviction for tax evasion in 1982.

But since our series ran, more troubling facts about Moon's international political connections have been brought to our attention. Most disturbing, given Moon's free-spending ways, are his long-standing ties to ultra-rightists linked to Asian organized crime and to the Latin American drug trade. These associations -- and Moon's deepening business operations in South America -- underscore the need for the U.S. government to ascertain exactly how Moon is financing his U.S. political empire.

Moon's representatives refuse to detail publicly how they sustain their far-flung operations. But they angrily rebut recurring allegations about profiteering off illegal trafficking in weapons and drugs.

In a typical response to a gun-running question by the Argentine newspaper, Clarin, Moon's representative Ricardo DeSena responded, "I deny categorically these accusations and also the barbarities that are said about drugs and brainwashing. Our movement responds to the harmony of the races, nations and religions and proclaims that the family is the school of love."

But Moon's relationships with drug-tainted gangsters and corrupt right-wing politicians go back to the early days of his Unification Church in Asia. Moon's Korea-based church made its first important inroads in Japan in the early 1960s after gaining the support of Ryoichi Sasakawa, a leader of the Japanese yakuza crime syndicate who once hailed Italian dictator Benito Mussolini as "the perfect fascist." In Japan and Korea, the shadowy yakuza ran lucrative drug smuggling, gambling and prostitution rings.

The Sasakawa connection brought Moon both converts and clout because Sasakawa was a behind-the-scenes leader of Japan's ruling Liberal Democratic Party. On the international scene, Sasakawa helped found the Asian People's Anti-Communist League, which united the heroin-stained leadership of Nationalist China with rightists from Korea, Japan and elsewhere in Asia.

In 1966, the Asian league evolved into the World Anti-Communist League with the inclusion of former Nazis from Europe, overt racialists from the United States and "death squad" operatives from Latin America, along with more traditional conservatives. Moon's followers played important roles in both organizations, which also maintained close ties to the CIA.



South American Drugs
Meanwhile, after World War II, South America was becoming a crossroads for Nazi fugitives and drug smugglers. Nazi war criminal Klaus Barbie, the so-called Butcher of Lyons, earned his living in Bolivia by selling his intelligence skills, while other ex-Nazis trafficked in narcotics. Often the lines crossed.

In those years, Auguste Ricord, a French war criminal who had collaborated with the Gestapo, set up shop in Paraguay. Ricord opened up French Connection heroin channels to American Mafia drug kingpin Santo Trafficante Jr., who controlled much of the heroin traffic into the United States. Columns by Jack Anderson identified, Ricord's accomplices as some of Paraguay's highest-ranking officers.

Another French Connection mobster, Christian David, relied on protection of Argentine authorities. While trafficking in heroin, David also "took on assignments for Argentina's terrorist organization, the Argentine Anti-Communist Alliance," Henrik Kruger wrote in The Great Heroin Coup. During President Nixon's "war on drugs," U.S. authorities smashed this famous French Connection and won extraditions of Ricord and David in 1972.

But by then, powerful drug lords had forged strong ties to South America's military leaders. Other Trafficante-connected groups, including right-wing anti-Castro Cubans in Miami, eagerly filled the drug void. Heroin from the Golden Triangle of Southeast Asia quickly replaced the French Connection heroin that had come mostly from the Middle East.

During this period, the CIA actively collaborated with right-wing army officers to oust left-leaning governments. And amid this swirl of anti-communism, Moon became active in South America. His first visit to Argentina was in 1965 when he blessed a square behind the presidential Pink House in Buenos Aires. He returned a decade later and began making high-level contacts in Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia and Uruguay.

The far-right gained control of Argentina in 1976 with a Dirty War that "disappeared" tens of thousands of Argentines. Michael Levine, a star undercover agent of the Drug Enforcement Administration, was assigned to Buenos Aires and was struck how "death was very much a way of life in Argentina."


A Nazi Reunion
In nearby coca-producing Bolivia, Nazi fugitive Klaus Barbie was working as a Bolivian intelligence officer and drawing up plans for a putsch that would add that central nation to the region's "stable axis" of right-wing regimes. Barbie contacted Argentine intelligence for help.

One of the first Argentine intelligence officers who arrived was Lt. Alfred Mario Mingolla. "Before our departure, we received a dossier on ," Mingolla later told German investigative reporter Kai Hermann. "There it stated that he was of great use to Argentina because he played an important role in all of Latin America in the fight against communism. From the dossier, it was also clear that Altmann worked for the Americans."

As the Bolivian coup took shape, Bolivian Col. Luis Arce-Gomez, the cousin of cocaine kingpin Roberto Suarez, recruited neo-fascist terrorists such as Italian Stefano della Chiaie who had been working with the Argentine death squads. Dr. Alfredo Candia, the Bolivian leader of the World Anti-Communist League, was coordinating the arrival of these paramilitary operatives from Argentina and Europe, Hermann reported. Meanwhile, Barbie started a secret lodge, called Thule. During meetings, he lectured to his followers underneath swastikas by candlelight.

While the CIA was encouraging this aggressive anti-communism on one level, Levine and his DEA field agents were moving against some of the conspirators for drug crimes. In May 1980, DEA in Miami seized 854 pounds of cocaine base and arrested two top Bolivian traffickers from the Roberto Suarez organization. But Levine saw the bust double-crossed, he suspected, for geo-political reasons.

One suspect, Jose Roberto Gasser "was almost immediately released from custody by the Miami U.S. attorney's office," Levine wrote. (Gasser was the son of Bolivian WACL associate Erwin Gasser, a leading figure in the upcoming coup.) The other defendant saw his bail lowered, letting him flee the United States. Levine worried about the fate of Bolivian officials who had helped DEA.

On June 17, 1980, in nearly public planning for the coup, six of Bolivia's biggest traffickers met with the military conspirators to hammer out a financial deal for future protection of the cocaine trade. A La Paz businessman said the coming putsch should be called the "Cocaine Coup," a name that would stick.

Less than three weeks later, on July 6, DEA agent Levine met with a Bolivian trafficker named Hugo Hurtado-Candia. Over drinks, Hurtado outlined plans for the "new government" in which his niece Sonia Atala, a major cocaine supplier, will "be in a very strong position."

Later, an Argentine secret policeman told Levine that the CIA knew about the coup. "You North Americans amaze me. Don't you speak to your own people?" the officer wondered. "Do you think Bolivia's government -- or any government in South America -- can be changed without your government and mine being aware of it?"

When Levine asked why that affected the planned DEA investigation, the Argentine answered, "Because the same people he's naming as drug dealers are the people we are helping to rid Bolivia of leftists. ...Us. The Argentines ... working with your CIA."


The Cocaine Coup Cometh
On July 17, the Cocaine Coup began, spearheaded by Barbie and his neo-fascist goon squad dubbed Fiances of Death. "The masked thugs were not Bolivians; they spoke Spanish with German, French and Italian accents," Levine wrote. "Their uniforms bore neither national identification nor any markings, although many of them wore Nazi swastika armbands and insignias."

The slaughter was fierce. When the putschists stormed the national labor headquarters, they wounded labor leader Marcelo Quiroga, who had led the effort to indict former military dictator Hugo Banzer on drug and corruption charges. Quiroga "was dragged off to police headquarters to be the object of a game played by some of the torture experts imported from Argentina's dreaded Mechanic School of the Navy," Levine wrote.

"These experts applied their 'science' to Quiroga as a lesson to the Bolivians, who were a little backward in such matters. They kept Quiroga alive and suffering for hours. His castrated, tortured body was found days later in a place called 'The valley of the Moon' in southern La Paz." Women captives were gang-raped as part of their torture.

To Levine back in Buenos Aires, it was soon clear "that the primary goal of the revolution was the protection and control of Bolivia's cocaine industry. All major drug traffickers in prison were released, after which they joined the neo-Nazis in their rampage. Government buildings were invaded and trafficker files were either carried off or burned. Government employees were tortured and shot, the women tied and repeatedly raped by the paramilitaries and the freed traffickers."

The fascists celebrated with swastikas and shouts of "Heil Hitler!" Hermann reported. Col. Arce-Gomez, a central-casting image of a bemedaled, pot-bellied Latin dictator, grabbed broad powers as Interior Minister. Gen. Luis Garcia Meza was installed as Bolivia's new president.


Moon & the Putschists
Among the first well-wishers arriving in La Paz to congratulate the new government was Moon's top lieutenant, Bo Hi Pak. The Moon organization published a photo of Pak meeting with Gen. Garcia Meza. After the visit to the mountainous capital, Pak declared, "I have erected a throne for Father Moon in the world's highest city."

According to later Bolivian government and newspaper reports, a Moon representative invested about $4 million in preparations for the coup. Bolivia's WACL representatives also played key roles, and CAUSA, one of Moon's anti-communist organizations, listed as members nearly all the leading Bolivian coup-makers.
....More




http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon6.html

[Judi Lynn]

45. That's quite the background for Rev. Jerry Falwell's good buddy. Jeez.

[happydreams]

46. ROF. I remember that picture. Thanks!

[Bacchus39]

55. Colombia peace talks in Havana

I think its interesting how Colombia has managed to maintain not only good relations with Dunce Boy Bush but also with Cuba. while peace between Colombia and ALL of its neighbors has been achieved, peace inside Colombia is a long way off.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060228/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_colombia_peace;_ylt=Ais9XTT1gubx1AbpHM.2c463IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--

Colombian Rebel Talks End With No Deal By VANESSA ARRINGTON, Associated Press Writer
Mon Feb 27, 10:38 PM ET



HAVANA - Colombia's government and rebels ended a round of talks with no agreement Monday, but promised to meet again in Cuba in early April.

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Both sides had planned to start creating an agenda for a formal peace process, but the talks that began Feb. 17 were dominated by second-tier issues including the legal status of delegates representing the National Liberation Army, known as the ELN, Colombia's second largest rebel group.