Sen. Obama Criticizes Filibuster Tactic

[leftchick]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060129/ap_on_go_su_co/alito

WASHINGTON - To more effectively oppose Supreme Court nominees in the future, Democrats need to convince the public "their values are at stake" rather than use stalling tactics to try to thwart the president, said a senator who opposes Samuel Alito's confirmation.

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., predicted on Sunday that an effort to try to block a final vote on Alito would fail on Monday. That would clear the way for Senate approval Tuesday of the federal appeals court judge picked to succeed the retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

Democrats fear he would shift the court rightward on abortion rights, affirmative action, the death penalty and other issues.

"We need to recognize, because Judge Alito will be confirmed, that, if we're going to oppose a nominee that we've got to persuade the American people that, in fact, their values are at stake," Obama said.

"There is an over-reliance on the part of Democrats for procedural maneuvers," he told ABC's "This Week."

:argh:

[hlthe2b]

1. there is a time and a place for such views....

and now (and on tv intertviews) is NEITHER.

Damn, will we ever stop committing to the circular firing squad?

[joemurphy]

3. Agreed. A bonehead statement from Obama. n/t

[mom cat]

43. OBAMA IS ON OUR SIDE> HE WILL FILLIBUSTER!

[bpilgrim]

121. ---- --- --- --- > mp3

http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/aar/mr/obama.mp3

peace

[Senator Obama]

107. It would seem...

That you and many others on this board don't understand good advice no matter where it's delivered. That's the pathology of a loser.

Obama

[brer cat]

108. I really appreciate your thoughts and advice, Senator

It is often difficult in the heat of battle to see the war. You are correct, yet is is difficult for many (most?) of us to let someone as unacceptable as Alito pass by without a major fight. Perhaps we can each learn something from each other?

Thank you for joining DU!

[Senator Obama]

111. Not the REAL Senator Obama but an Admirer.....

I would be dissappointed if the Senator would stoop so low as to participate in this high tech lynching. He has been totally misrepresented on this thread.

Obama

[Pastiche423]

109. What good advice might that be?

Obama's words fucked us today. Why would anyone want to listen to him again?

[Senator Obama]

112. The sky is fallling....

Just how does Obama's constructive criticism fuck the party? Did Carville and Begala's book of missives fuck the party? Does criticism of the American government fuck the country? You are part of the problem and not the solution.

Tell me since you criticize America do you hate America?

Obama

[Pastiche423]

116. In what way

exactly was his criticism constructive?

He got his camera time to thwart our attempts to do what was right for our country now and for our children and grandchildren.

You should be asking why does obama hate America?

[Senator Obama]

123. You are entitled to your interpretation...

However seriously flawed it may be. The problem is that the party is weak on presenting its case to the public. The questioning during the confirmation hearings didn't get the job done. Relying on a last ditch filibuster effort that has little chance to succeed is not about to change that. Whether he said that on prime time (thereby sparking debate among thoughtful people) or said it in a backroom, the comment is constructive. And since he supported filibuster he is entitled to express that opinion.


There are 20 Demos who voted for cloture. Why not trash them? Many of them are senior level operatives, some with committee assignments and media access who failed to use that access to make the case. Numerically, we had an uphill battle to fight. With no party discipline, why are you so damned quick to place the responsibility for how the rest of the party votes on this one person? Where the fuck was Harry Reid. He is the Minority leader!

Obama lite..

[scot]

120. If I take his point correctly

its hard not to recognize that procedural motions, however necessary, are a poor substitute for popular opinion.

[Senator Obama]

126. You're absolutely right...

And to tell you the truth, as much as I would have preferred that he not air that dirty laundry on TV, perhaps it is a point that needs to be delivered in that medium to speak to the public. Apparently there are even those insiders here who still do not understand. We have been beat to the punch by the GOP who would crucify the filibuster as an obstructionist move given we had not established a persuasive case. That ineffective tactic weakens the public perception of Democrats. Recall the discussion on another thread about properly framing the debate? I think Obama needs to be a little more forceful in discussing the merits of the Democrats, particularly since he is now the point man on ethics.

It would be real interesting to see the results of a gallop poll on the views of the general public about the use of a filibuster here. Somehow I believe it will show they would have thought it unnecessary.

Obama

[FlaGranny]

151. How do you propose

that Democrats get their message to the public? MSM news studiously ignores anything Democratic unless it's bad. It seems to take 6 or 7 years for the message to filter through and even at that the average American doesn't know the full story - the White House so controls the message.

[Senator Obama]

156. If we had the time....

Do you really think we know how to deliver the message? I don't buy the mainstream media persecution complex. This is just like the Republicans whining about the "liberal media". So who's the real culprit? Is it the MSM shafting liberals or is it the "liberal media" that the GOP constantly harps about.

We have plenty of opportunity. We just have yet to articulate a clear message. That would be because we have none. This Obama bashing thread is exhibit A. He voted for cloture, yet his vote was irresponsibly reported on a liberal board. His message was nitpicked by some self serving zealots. I believe Obama was very well understood by the moderate audience..that would be the people we need to reach assuming that liberals already know the score. Yet when he makes a direct appeal to that audience, he gets shouted down by members of his own party. Do these people want to win or are they too hung up in the purity of their ideology?

The way I look at these things is strictly pragmatic. I constantly compromise to maintain membership in the Democratic party. Folks here can split hairs and apply all kinds of very narrow litmus tests to Democrats. As a black person I recognize that I could never support the modern day Republican cause. It makes about as much sense as a chicken voting for Colonel Saunders. Yes the Dems may not have represented me with all the zealous advocacy that I'd desire at times, and they have in fact allowed civil rights to be highjacked by narrow interests of fringe groups. I'm angered about this. But the reality is that I have no advocate in the opposition party. So I plan to ride this donkey to my grave and beat him to be more responsive, yet not beat him maliciously or with such force as to cause his demise.

Obama

[anitar1]

135. I never wanted to listen to him. One speech does not

make him a hero. He has not followed through. I am amazed at how many cheer over ONE speech. It is the long haul that matters.

[Senator Obama]

142. And you wonder why....

the party is in the shitter? If you know anything about this man you could never question his liberal credentials. Yes it is desirable to support and elect those candidates that most represent our viewpoints. But only ideologues don't recognize the expediency of compromise. I don't see any electable Eugene McCarthy's on the national front. I don't see any other candidates on the horizon that could possibly instill such a positive and invigorating effect on the electorate. If you don't understand the wisdom of moderation when appealing to the broader audience, you'll forever be marginalized. I wager that Obama or any of a number of other moderate Demos would be very sympathetic to the liberal viewpoint. In fact, they are established liberals who have either been smacked down (Hillary on Health care), or know that they will be smacked down if they come too hard left. To win we have to be pragmatic. You either learn that or keep losing. Independents elect the President. We don't have to go hard left to win the confidence of the majority electorate. We do, however, need to steal the middle. You may not get everything with whomever we select as a nominee, but its for damn sure you'll sleep a lot better with a government controlled by the Democratic Party.

Obama

[Stuckinthebush]

144. I am tired of constantly running to the mythic "middle"

That "middle" seems to always move rightward.

No, I and many many others are taking a stand and saying, "The principles of the left are worth fighting for, and I will not support a candidate that doesn't show me that her or she will fight for them as well."

I am tired of capitulating.

I am tired of hearing that we must win from the middle.

I am tired of hearing that we must abandon our values to get power.

40 years ago if you told Americans that one day a president and congress would be raping the Constitution as they are today, and that whacked out far right ideologues are considered to be the normal right, and to get the middle you have to pander to people's base instincts, they would have laughed at you.

No, Obama doesn't excite me or many other dems...nor does Hilary...nor does Lieberman. Why? Because too many times they have played the "middle" game. I have no idea where Mr. Obama really stands. Why would I think that he really wants to fight for the left? Why does it help the left to have these people in power? They don't seem to represent us.

One more thing I'm tired of is losing, however, I am even more tired of sacrificing our values in order to try to win. We never will win that way. Ever.

[Senator Obama]

147. Yes indeed...you most certainly are TIRED....

Obama

[Stuckinthebush]

150. Nice

try again

[Senator Obama]

152. More constructively....

Just what values of the left are you sacrificing? Right now you're sacrificing all of them because the Dems control no aspect of the government. Do you realize how Clinton managed to win? Do you realize that it was Clinton's success that forced the GOP to the right? Do you realize that the Clinton plan IMHO is still a valid option to return Dems to the White House?

It's not really relevant as to whether you or a bunch of other Dems can support Hillary, Obama or any of a number of the currently elected Dems. These individuals are elected and have a constituency to serve. If they happen to represent you, then you have the power to influence their politics. This is precisely the reason why congresspersons make lousy presidential candidates.

I would suggest this. Obama would be wise to run for Governor of Illinois rather than attempt to approach Presidential candidacy through the Senate. I personally don't think he or any of the congresspeople will wage successful bid for the presidency from the Congress.

Obama is young, first term and untested. He has a NATIONAL platform as the only elected black Senator. Let's be clear about that. He is quite capable, but first and foremost he gets the attention because he's an African-American. I think he's shrewd enough to be a major player. I think his test will be how much impact he can have on election reform given his appointment by Reid as the point man for ethics. I for one will be looking to base my judgment of his performance largely on how well he executes in that position. I think if you have an open mind, you can do the same.

Bottom line is that the Nobel Prize for politics will go to the party/individual who is most influential in gaining control of the election process from the corporate lobbyists.

Obama

[Stuckinthebush]

153. Indeed, that is more constructive..thank you

My points are these and are the same points I made in the thread above:

We must enunciate our traditional liberal values and not shy away from telling the public who we are and what we stand for...equal rights, protection for the least able in our society, strengthening education for all, protection of the environment, pro-science and research, pro-sensible gun laws, the elimination of wasteful spending at all levels but especially at the defense level, women's right to choose, pro-privacy, pro-diversity in all its forms including religious and sexual, pro-labor, and the elimination of the national debt to name a few.

We must not run to the right on major values issues such as being pro-choice, pro-constitution, or equal rights. Doing so betrays our values and undermines our credibility.

We must have our leaders such as Obama and all members of Congress present a united front against the terrible injustices that have happened under Bush and the GOP. We need them to support our values but also the procedural tools given to them by the founders in order to protect the minority. Obama's denunciation of our use of these tools does them a great disservice. It is all we have at this moment, and we need to use them to stand for what we believe.

Our leaders in congress are what we have. And yes, they represent individual districts but as Democrats, they represent us all. We must collectively hold them all responsible for their votes and their words.

Clinton was one of our better presidents. He did carve out middle ground which helped him win, but that middle ground was mainly in fiscal policy which we desperately needed to get our hands around. Today, thanks to Bill, we can say we are more a party of fiscal responsibility than the GOP. But CLinton believed in civil rights, he believed in protecting a woman's right to choose, and he believed in fighting like hell for the poorest and most downtrodden in our society. That is not caving to the middle-right. THat is standing up for our values.

I have no real long term beef with Mr. Obama. I do not agree with his public bashing of our use of procedural issues because I believe it is what we have to work with right now. I don't know if he is going to be a great leader or not, but he has a long way to go...he is young. I just want him and all of our Senators to stand together, lock arms, and say "we go no farther in supporting the erosion of what we hold dear".

Let's hope they can do that, because if they don't, the game is lost.

[Senator Obama]

155. Fair enough...

I agree in principle with your list of core values. Now, where's the elevator speech? My eyes glaze over just trying to read them, let alone articulate them within the attention span of the average american. Mind you most of what you've said is focused on a domestic agenda. Yet we live in a global age and like it or not are preoccupied with the threat of international terrorism. We have to replace the current climate of fear with one of hope. A sober view of the world reveals that the US like it or not has enemies against which we must remain vigilant. Creative solutions to foreign policy and relations are sorely needed. Addressing all of these hopes in an environment of out of control spending driven by massive military expenditures and tax cuts and a culture that is very much forged on rugged individualism is a daunting task. Just how does such an inward focused agenda compete with the war on terror?

What you point out here is not an Obama problem. It is a democratic leadership problem. Obama is neither part of the DLC, nor is he a ranking member of any committee. He is a young, unseasoned first term Senator. That being said, the man has more implicit understanding of liberal causes in his little finger than many of his critics on this thread. Harry Reid is Minority Leader and he is the one with whom you have a bone to pick about lack of party discipline and message. Add to that the 15 to 20 other democrats who voted for cloture. You and others on this thread have mis characterized Obama's comments. He railed against over reliance on procedural tools. Nowhere did I see where he said they shouldn't be used. If there is no party discipline to enforce a filibuster, why spend the political capital? If we do not get out in front of these issues and make our case to the American public why further display our weakness by going through the motions? Even if the effort is successful on procedure, we get nuked (not a bad thing because it might just backfire on the GOP) and Alito is confirmed anyway. So we win on principle and the Republicans win in the court of public opinion. Get a clue..one of the most corrupt governments in modern time and most Americans are too busy to care. Preoccupation with the threat of terror leaves little room to listen to what amounts to declarations that the sky is falling. Rove has been masterful with exploiting the war on terror and he is going back to the well in 2006. How do we counter the basic premise that national security is exclusively a Republican expertise?

The problem doesn't primarily lie in people like Obama making what is in effect a matter of fact statement. The solution doesn't lie in petty bickering over nothing. At root in the issue is headcount in the Senate. There are a number of conservative democrats from Red States that will not be voting affirmative on some of the more extreme liberal causes. And if these Senators aren't conservative they're not electable in those states. In the Senate we'll always have this problem because we are outnumbered by red states. The only way to offset that is to take control of the House and the presidency. Get angry with the party leadership, and I believe we must. However, I'd much rather see the vitriol reserved for Bush and the GOP.



Obama

[Justitia]

2. We've got to persuade Obama his senate seat is at stake. -eom

[mom cat]

44. HE HAS BEEN PERSUADED> HE IS FOR THE FILIBUSTER!

[Justitia]

53. Thanks for the update. Info flying fast & furious around here. -eom

[orleans]

4. unreal. guess it's time to phone and fax HIM again

maybe if we vote no on cloture and let the heroes filibuster the american people will learn the meaning of "unitary executive theory" and that alito supports this.

maybe if they learn alito could make bush in charge of the military, independent agencies, and above the constitution americans will realize what a horrible chance we have of becoming a dictatorship.

maybe if we informed them that if bush becomes "unitary executive" he could order his military to take their freakin guns away that would make all the difference in the world to the citizens with their heads up their asses who believe in bush with such a religious blind faith.

[Vidar]

5. Worthless, pretty boy sellout.

[mom cat]

46. PLEASE...NO MORE BASHING...HE IS ON OUR SIDE!

[Voltaire99]

52. Speak for yourself. He's pro-corporate, pro-war...

and pro-surrender on Alito.

He's sure as hell not on *my* side.

[nodehopper]

62. I think what MomCat is saying

is he will filibuster. So he is on our side if we want the filibuster to happen. Why take things out of context?

[mom cat]

74. on the filibuster issue. I agree with you no the rest.

[ladjf]

83. He may be on our side. But, those comments about the

way to handle the judge nominations are pure, meaningless, mouth words, aka bull shit.

The Country has been conquered by a criminal coup d'etat. It's too late to sit around mouthing about teaching people about "our" values.

In the end, the Republicans will eventually crumble from their own greed and stupidity. The Democrats will not have played any role whatsoever in their demise.

There is no opposition party. Unfortunately, the thrust of the Republican Party's demise will be from outside elements, namely Countries that are tired of our avaricious and brutal ways and who recognize that the U.S. is only a dim shadow of it's former self. We will become "easy pickings".
There will be other Countries who will recognize the opportunity to smash us as an political entity.

What a sorry way for our great Country to end it's glorious run.

The people who voted against cloture and were in favor of the filibuster were smart enough to know that those who voted otherwise will definitely rue the day that they were so greedy and short sighted. In later years, the lists of who voted for what will become rallying points for political strategy. Those who favored Alito will definitely get more than they bargained for.

[anitar1]

136. And thank you, Ladjf. n/t

[gardenista]

119. Go mom cat!

Thanks for speaking up in the face of ignorance!

[mom cat]

47. PLEASE STOP THE BASHING..HE IS ON OUR SIDE!

[Orsino]

101. Sometimes. Sort of.

He deserves to be bashed the rest of the time. Silencing dissent is what the other side does.

[Benhurst]

6. Barack Obama covering his ass.

Sadly, this is hardly breaking news.

[tsuki]

7. Who did Rosa Parks convince before she refused to give up

her seat? What was the Birmingham Boycott but one long filibuster?

[Malikshah]

21. BRILLIANT!! Send to Barack. Maybe he'll get his head out

of the Beltway Insiders' collective ass and sit up and take notice!

[Senator Obama]

117. Rosa Parks was not the first black lady to stage a sitdown...

She was the first to have the support of the civil rights groups and subsequent media coverage. I think we should find the first of the persons who of their own conviction sat down without any support whatsoever and record their ordeals for posterity. You really sound foolish because all you really know about that aspect of history is what you read in a text book. That's fine, but just try not to sound so misinformed when you regurgitate. It's really embarrassing to see this on a liberal board.

Obama

[Stuckinthebush]

145. Self delete

Bickering won't help us - mine or anyone else's

[Kagemusha]

8. The point's simple. You people are convinced. The public isn't.

Therefore, the filibuster is likely to be seen as a political stunt.

Democratic activists seem to see the filibuster as an entitlement (which I understand - Reid basically promised it would be saved for this very purpose, whether that was wise or not) but people outside the internet echo chamber on this just aren't convinced Alito won't turn into a Souter. Obviously liberals don't think the chance should be taken that he will not. Obviously without the public being convinced of this fact this effort will be completely wasted, and senators like Obama will resent being bullied into such an effort.

Perhaps the filibuster to inspire the nuclear option could be used on something where victory is more feasible, even if it looks like there cannot be any higher stake. Should Alito be confirmed, the sun will rise the next day and life will go on. It's only Custer's Last Stand if it's made to be, and the filibuster is ruled out of existence by the Senate.

[TygrBright]

13. errr.... Last time I looked...

...I was a member of "the public." "The public" may include a lot of mouth-breathing ingnorami, but it also includes many people who make the effort to inform themselves, develop their positions and opinions, and communicate those positions and opinions to their elected representatives. It's what we, "the public," are supposed to do in a participatory representative democracy, don'cha know.

And just because SOME of "the public" differ from OTHER of "the public" in their opinions doesn't make any of us less "the public." I'm rather weary of this "axe-grinders vs. the 'real' public" foofooraw the media is blethering these days. It's just a way of delegitimating those who DO bother to inform themselves and express our opinions.

There is more at stake here than JUST the Alito nomination, and more at stake in the Alito nomination than JUST Roe v. Wade, affirmative action, and other matters of Constitutional interpretation.

A real, sustained filibuster is a win-win scenario for Democrats, because we either:

Filibuster Alito, Reps nuke the filibuster option, American voters kick their butts and we end up with a Dem Senate, which promptly restores the filibuster; OR

We filibuster Alito, somehow put together enough support to keep 60 cloture votes from materializing, and get away with it-- no Alito, Dems look tough.

Remember, the GOPpies are on very thin ice right now. Given the number of GOPpie leaders who are under indictment, investigation, etc., and the extent to which the fecal end product currently intersecting with the blades of the rotary air movement device is likely to be flung, they are getting pretty thickly covered with brown stuff.

Although Americans' sense of smell is historically poor, and has been quite astoundingly dull in recent years, at some point it WILL penetrate the olfactory nerves. The more stuff the GOPpie leadership does that makes it obvious they are motivated entirely by power and money rather than by the good of the country, its people, and its Constitution, the faster those olfactory nerves are liable to respond to the plentiful stimulation they've been getting for the past few months.

Proposing "ethics reforms" that are transparently toothless, self-serving attempts to deflect criticism, stonewalling investigations, and now doing something as blatant as changing rules that have been part of the Senate's operating procedure for decades just to eke out a partisan victory...?

The scenario Dem leaders are running scared on is the "worst of both worlds" scenario, in which Dems filibuster, WITHOUT enough support to prevent cloture. GOPpies push a cloture vote, confirm Alito, and decline to invoke the nuke, leaving the filibuster as is. Which, clearly, is perfectly okay since it obviously can't stop them doing whateverthehell they want to do anyway. Leaving GOPpies looking both tough AND magnanimous, and Dems looking principled but weak.

The simple solution: Make damn' sure the filibuster is sustainable, PERIOD.

What's at stake with Alito is no mere question of "swinging the Court right" or left, or whatever. It's a matter of the very integrity of the Constitution itself, as Alito's past actions, writings, and statements have repeatedly indicated that he believes in an Imperial Presidency and the effective evisceration of both Legislative and Judicial branches of government in deference to the "Unitary Executive."

I would feel PRECISELY the same way if we had an eminently satisfactory Democratic President who nominated a liberal with the same views re: separation of powers. And I would be working just as hard to gin the damn' Senate up to the fact that by consenting to such an appointment, they'd be plunging the knife into their own vitals.

irritatedly,
Bright

(ed. for typo-- that'll teach me to post without previewing!)

[Kagemusha]

17. Fine, THE REST OF THE PUBLIC isn't convinced.

Is that clearer? As you said, you're just one part of it.

..More to the point,

If Democrats are going to filibuster and NOT SAY ANYTHING THAT WILL CHANGE MINDS, then the power to extend debate in the Senate is bunk. It is the power of DEBATE. To use debate just to stall and throw sand in the President's eye is unworthy even of pity. To debate to drive home to the public that Alito is unworthy of being a Supreme Court justice is just fine, IF IT WORKS.

I don't think that the Senate Democrats have any faith whatsoever in their capability to lead the public through rhetoric or to even convince their other senators that this is not an abuse of the process against a judge who is not guaranteed to be a monster. And how do they know this? Because they SUCKED during the judiciary committee hearings. Based on that performance, Obama has no reason to have confidence in the party's ability to lead public opinion on this issue.

[Kurovski]

61. Really, I seriously want to know why Obama needs permission

from us to protect the constitution from a man like Alito in the first place. I thought he was capable of doing the right thing without having to be reassured and coddled.

That's why I voted for him.

And logistically speaking, we were never going to get rid of Alito without a filibuster anyway. 55 Republicans will most likely be voting in lockstep by order and threat of King George, despite what their constituents say.

There's a lesson in there for Sen. Obama.

[Wordie]

22. Who SAYS the public isn't convinced???

There's a thread floating around here on DU somewhere (I'm too busy to find it just now) that points out that according to the polls most recently cited, more people rate themselves as either "opposes Alito confirmation" or "unsure" than people who rated themselves "supports Alito nomination." Some of these reports are just plain misleading and biased!

(Surprise!)

On edit: Here's a link to that thread on the polls. The public is being mislead by the manipulative misquoting of what these polls are really saying!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=recent_posts

[VirginiaDem]

31. I agree. n/t

[krkaufman]

72. Perhaps the filibuster is the only thing that's going to bring...

... Alito's true credentials into the face of the American public, 'cause the media sure isn't highlighting his extreme right wing views.

[Wordie]

9. Totally misleading article! Obama will vote FOR a filibuster!

This article has used only his comments expressing reservations, but missed the most important fact!

Obama says he supports filibuster to block Alito

UNDATED U-S Senator Barack Obama...says he will support a filibuster to block a confirmation vote on Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito...

But the Illinois Democrat also says his party relies too heavily on procedural maneuvers like filibusters and Democrats could do a better job of persuading the American people directly.Obama spoke this morning on A-B-C's news talk show "This Week."

http://www.wqad.com/Global/story.asp?S=4425639&nav=1sW7

[AX10]

11. DUer's: OBAMA SUPPORTS THE FILIBUSTER!

:kick:

[mac56]

16. Sorry, Wordie, the mob has spoken.

The dogpile on Obama begins anew. Don't bother them with facts.

:sarcasm:

Actually, thanks for the words of rationality.

[Kurovski]

65. The issue is taking his complaints up with fellow Dems in private,

not on a corporate news outlet. Does he think Republicans will come up with a winning strategy for the Dems? Is that why he's sharing his reservations in the open? does he really think it makes him look thoughtful? Will he impress more republicans enough to have them vote for him?

Does he also take disagreements with his wife out into the middle of the street in the hopes that the neighbors will help them out with suggestions or be somehow impressed? No, he does not.

YES. We know that he finally did the right thing and we also know that he whined about it. Why he did? Who knows.

But it was an internal matter and he showed poor form in needlessly baring himself and the party to Republican wolves who are always on the prowl for Dems who turn an unprotected belly up in range of their fangs.

[1932]

20. A sign of the powerful part Obama can play for progressives is

right here in this thread.

First, the newspaper misrepresents what he says (because to represent it accurately would be to help Democrats do exactly what Obama says is necesary) and then, second, stupid comments are made on this public discussion board that perpetuate the spin and the fiction about Obama.

This is exactly why some people here believe Obama voted for the bankruptcy bill -- false perceptions are intentionally created about a guy who is a very important progressive voice.

[Wordie]

26. Everyone of those who were misled by this ought to complain to Yahoo!

The msm won't change until people DEMAND that it change.

[anitar1]

137. Has anyone ever thought of how safe it is to be "for"

filibuster, when they know there are not enough senators supporting it? Easy.

[Inland]

32. Said so today before Russert. nt

[BillZBubb]

10. With Democrats like this....

Our party is almost totally devoid of sense. What an idiotic statement for someone to make, use the filibuster to convince the public dimwit!!!!!

Most Americans right now don't have a clue about Alito. Under 20% have paid any attention at all so far. A filibuster would get a lot more people paying attention. The corportate media couldn't concentrate on Mrs. Alito's tears. Shine the light on Alito's radical views on executive power and a majority will be with us.

Why do our elected Democrats lack any faith in their (our!) position? If Alito is bad for the US, fight to keep him off the court with any legal tactic available. The Democrats will have the majority with them if they ever bother to fight for something.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

60. Lara Flanders today said Obama will vote against cloiture

In other words he supports a fillibuster.

[orleans]

12. anyone got a link for this show??? n/t

[Dixie Flatline]

14. I thought Obama was supporting the filibuster...

Can someone clear this up?

[Kagemusha]

18. He's supporting it, but he doesn't have to like it,

or think it's a good idea, or think it's going to work.

[aquart]

15. Well, so much for being the hope of the nation.

How could he lose so many brain cells so fast?

[Kagemusha]

19. He's observing his immediate environment.

What he sees is not what we see here on Democratic Republic. That cuts too many ways for me to summarize well.

[xchrom]

36. ''Democratic Republic''

you always say the most interesting things.

would you like to extrapolate how this place reminds you of the other?

i find your progression through this thread on obama ... telling.

[Kagemusha]

42. Ugh.. that was a pure typo. My apologies.

Anyone who took that as an insult - NOT intended that way.

[1932]

25. If the hope of the nation is rearguard actions rather than going on a

values offensive...?

If you want hope, listen to what Obama is saying. He will support the filibuster, but he's saying that you wouldn't need one and we could save the nation from judges like Alito, if Democrats' strategy wasn't waging procedural battles, but was to explain to voters what Democratic values were and why the are much better than Republican values, and explained why Bush and Alito threaten Democratic values.

This kind of reminds of when Jeffords switched to Ind.

I was excited, and so were many democrats. But what kind of victory was that? It was a procedural move that temporarily helped the Democrats. And Jeffords didn't even become a Democrat.

We wouldn't need that if more voters saw the democrats not as procedural maneuverer's taking rearguard actions, but saw them as a party that stood for a set of values that mattered to people.

I think that's what Obama is talking about.

[Stuckinthebush]

146. Perhaps you are correct...and perhaps he can start himself

Of course, I don't hear him coming out and making statements about Democratic values.

Perhaps we need to find a leader, not a manufactured politician.

[droidamus]

23. speak up not back down

Wouldn't it be better to show 'the public' that you believe in their values and are willing to fight for them by filibustering and using that time to explain to them that their values as well as their constituional rights are government are in danger. Why is it that the Republicans can always seem to get their 'troops' in line when they really need a vote where as the more important the vote it seems like the Democrats go their own ways for their own political purposes. I don't believe in putting the party above all but sometimes if you don't back the party you won't even have a chance to effect the outcome.

[Octafish]

24. "..because Judge Alito will be confirmed..."

Hey, Barack!

Why not use the time filibustering to wake America up about the fascist turd balls who are running the country and planet into the ground?

[Orrin_73]

27. Et tu, Obama!

What a letdown, I feel so dissapointed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. What procedural maneuvers?

Did I miss something?

[in_cog_ni_to]

67. The filibuster is a procedural maneuver and Obama

doesn't like the fact that we have to use the filibuster to stop ScAlito's confirmation. He supports it, but doesn't like it and doesn't like the fact that the party waited until the last minute to decide to filibuster and decide that he should go on National TV to say it. *sigh*

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

29. Gotta disagree with Obama

It's all we have left, at this point.

[Clara T]

30. Weasel words

Looks like Obama is positioning himself whilst the American version of fascism tiptoes through the tulips.

He's playing the game.
We're suffering the consequences.

[Wordie]

35. This article is so slanted; who knows what he really said.

I didn't see the interview, so I don't know myself. The way I look at it, he is supporting the filibuster and has said he will vote "No" on Alito and also to prevent cloture. I don't like it that he apparently will support the filibuster only with reservations, but let's not forget what is the most important thing here. It's his VOTE, not his reservations!

[KeepItReal]

33. Barak and Harold Ford are letting this Senate stuff go to their heads

They both are going against the Congressional Black Congress' (of which they both are members) recommendation against Alito.

I hope their U.S. Senate seats (if Harold Ford gets the one he has his eye on) are nice and cozy once an Right Wing Supreme Court majority is confirmed.

Way to support checks and balances my "Brothas". (sarcasm)

Yeah, there are other Dem. Senators out there messing up (like my fellow Louisianian Mary Landrieu - but she's been messed up politically way before she got in the Senate), but Ford and Obama are really showing what they are made of, or more appropriately, what they are *not* made of.

Maybe they'll (and other Democrats not committed) have a last minute conversion to do the right thing and support a filibuster. That I can only hope.


"If the Senate values its own work on federal statutes in many areas of American life, it will find unacceptable Judge Alito’s record as a frequent dissenter in commerce clause and other cases of long established congressional authority to enact laws benefiting Americans of every background. However, the CBC urgently asks for this meeting with you because Judge Alito’s record on race in particular shows a consistent pattern of hostility to race discrimination cases and remedies. At stake is the most important work of the Supreme Court and the Congress in seeking to eliminate discrimination in voting, employment and other critical areas where Judge Alito has left no doubt in his dissents that he seeks reversal of equal opportunity law and jurisprudence. If he is promoted to the Supreme Court, where stare decisis is less constraining, he will be in a position to make his dissenting views the law of the land, and we have no doubt that racial progress itself would be reversed. As it is, much of this progress in our country today hangs on 5-4 decisions. Particularly viewed in light of the O’Connor seat that Judge Alito would fill, a vote for Judge Alito is a vote to radically change the Court and bring down 50-years of race discrimination jurisprudence. Our country goes in that direction on race at its peril."

http://www.congressionalblackcaucus.net/

[savemefromdumbya]

56. If Martin Luther hadn't stood up for people's rights

if many black people hadn't marched and stood up for their rights - there would still be apartheid. Obama's thinking is lame.

[bigjohn16]

34. The right is going to be in control of the third and final branch...

of government. Is this fight not worth using a few stalling tactics and procedural maneuvers, at the very least?

[bajamary]

37. Remember he voted for Connie

I did volunteer work for Obama here in my hometown of Chicago. But I rather doubt I'll do that again, as one of his first votes was an unconditional YES FOR CONNIE RICE.

Now as you know, Ms. Rice is one of the central architects of the WMD and rush to attack Iraq. And Obama, a very bright man, knew this quite well.

Thank God my other Senator, Dick Durbin, really is a man with some honor and a lot of guts.

Obama is not to be trusted. Keep your eyes wide open with this brother.

[getitright]

105. How did you like Durbin's work

on the Judiciary commitee?

Who did you think did the best?

[depakid]

38. The junior Senator needs to keep his mouth shut

while he's learning the ropes. He's already made one too many rookie mistakes.

A MAJOR part of being a successful and powerful senator is to learn how to wield parliamentary procedure to your advantage and WIN your issues.

Until he gets how it works- he really needs quiet down. Seems to me the Dems may have made a mistake by elevating him to prominence prematurely. Then again- the Kerry campaign made a lot of mistakes....

[Kagemusha]

45. I hope people realize what this sounds like.

Junior senator needs to keep his mouth shut while two white senators from Massachusetts show him how "senatoring" is done. (I would use a word other than "junior" but people would accuse me of being overly provocative.)

Just saying what it sounds like. I don't think there's a lot of big-picture thinking on this board lately. (or firedoglake, or Kos, and so on, and I read them all, usually because they're refreshing for some reason)

[depakid]

49. Doesn't matter what color he is

If he makes a stupid and counter productive statement, he needs to be criticized for it. When he he mouthed off at Dean last year, I was hoping someone in the leadership (Durban maybbe) might tell him to be a little more discrete with the media.

Kerry is also a junior Senator- though by virtue of serving what, 20 years, he probably deserves a little more deference.

As to big picture thinking- to come out with a statement lamenting the only process the Dems have to block the far right (and one that the Republicans have never been shy about using) doesn't seem to me to be very forward looking.

[artr2]

39. This guy is turning into ..

A DINO right before our eyes

[drm604]

40. I saw him on "This Week",

and he said quite clearly that he supports the filibuster. His gripe was the fact that the Democrats didn't fight hard enough and didn't make a good enough case to begin with. If they had done so than we wouldn't have to resort to desperate last minute tactics. He wasn't criticizing the filibuster (he supports it), he was complaining that the Democrats allowed things to get so far that the filibuster was their only remaining tactic.

It could be argued as to whether or not his opinion is correct, (it may very well be that there was nothing the Democrats could have done that would have made a difference) but he does support the filibuster so we all need to stop spreading misinformation.

Don't trust what you read in an AP article. Go to the actual source; find a copy of the show and decide for yourself what he's saying. Barring that, listen to those of us who have seen it.

[Justitia]

54. Thank you for this clarification. -eom

[hughesfan]

58. Thanks!

I didn't see the show and wanted a recap.

[JudyM]

63. Agreed, that was what I heard him say. And he has a great point.

We are not doing a sufficient job of getting the message out. Why would the public rise up against the Alito nomination if all they hear is that he's well-qualified? WHY aren't we doing better, after what we learned with Kerry, at COMMUNICATING OUR VALUES?!!

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

41. I thought he'd been painted as such an up and coming superman

Sorry, Obama, we're just gonna have to ground you and recall your cape...

[confludemocrat]

48. He thinks such talk makes him 2012-16 material, 'cept no D party by then

thanks to him among other gutless "positioners".

[RelativelyJones]

50. From day one this guy has been 5% tease, 95% self-promo

[Generator]

51. And assuming his position I guess

that most Americans want Alito-which I guess he's claiming because all the Republicans want him in then? Is that it? They are the majority by a small margin-but that doesn't mean they represent what the public wants. Is Obama dumb or duped? Well anyway-how do you convince the public when the media only represents propaganda like the poor little Mrs. in tears-that has nothing to do with the debate of Alito's positions-and presents the confirmation as a done deal-so why bother!!

He's blaming only the Dems-which is why Obama pisses many of us off so much. He's not blaming the media-he's not blaming all the Republicans that march lockstep behind Bush-and don't even really care what Alito stands for because loyalty to Bush assures their vote. Does every Republican that breathes only care overturning Roe V. Wade. Is that all there is? Maybe. Maybe some of them actually don't want a president with unlimited powers and a supreme court justice that thinks it's okay to shoot unarmed children in the back and strip search 10 year old girls.
Maybe they care about privacy and civil rights. Maybe they aren't cold heartless monsters. Too bad that's what Alito seemed like to me. And I did watch the hearings. Thankfully, the Americans have the Republicans to represent them on the cold heartless monster front. Too bad the Dems are standing in the way of that. Oh yeah-could we present that position on TV? Sure..let's get them on it stat. Oh wait? They spend all their time trashing Kerry and Howard Dean and comparing us to Osama Bin Laden.

Writing this got me pissed off even more. Obama has his head up his ass.

[savemefromdumbya]

55. Obama, are you saying you want a right wing supreme court?

The key thing is the message. It will probably fail but at least people make a stand. Rosa Parks made a stand, Martin Luther King made a stand. What if they hadn't?

I don't think some people get it. Ostrich head in the sand stuff....

[skipos]

57. You guys know he supports the filibuster, right? nt

[Kurovski]

71. Yes. He also shared his opinion on the matter.

And golly-gosh-oh-gee, but we have opinions too. :-)

[Born Free]

59. too many democrats always find reasons to not to stand up and fight

Too many democrats are very consistant at not standing up for America, and come election time when Americans are afraid of the terrorists they will remember which party was willing to stand up to protect the American way of life. I don't think democrats will ever learn, America is under attack and they need to be strong and stand up together to let Americans know they are willing to fight, even when all the odds are against them and to show Americans they will use whatever tools they can to protect the American way of life. They are all tests, and every time the democrats fail to stand up united and strong for the American way of life.

[nodehopper]

64. but he is filibustering

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. yes he is. But acting like a child who's being forced to do it.

*I'm going to filibuster, but I don't like it.* What he said today should have been said behind closed doors on Capitol Hill. :(

[henslee]

70. yes.

[gtar100]

66. It's not the public that needs convincing

It's the damn boneheads in the Senate. That's where the stupid factor is on amplified volume. If that trash heap of intellectual cripples really did what "We The People" did -- as in *represent* us -- Alito wouldn't have made it into the Judicial Committee hearings. But they're not listening to us. They are too busy following the barrel of money that's quickly approaching Niagra Falls.

[ladjf]

84. What the public needs to know is that their Country has been

literally stolen by a gang of greedy, stupid and vicious thugs. It is unlikely that we will ever have another legitimate national election.

[libertypirate]

69. How do you convince the public when they never hear what's wrong?

It's that kind of logic that constantly forces me to shake my head in shame about how our free press has gone corporate.

The only values corporations have are their own first, in a kill or be killed world who has time for ethics!

[Atmashine]

73. So...when is the future?

"...To more effectively oppose Supreme Court nominees in the future..."

[Dr Fate]

75. When the GOP/media Swift Boats Obama someday, he will cry:

"But, but- I was so polite and cordial to the liars & crooks- I tried to work with them! Why are they making stuff up about my past? Why are they doing this to ME? I was NICE to them!! NO FAIR!!!"

[SKKY]

76. This is what I call the "Pussification" of the Democratic Party...

...and it would appear that Obama is leading the way.

[ladjf]

85. The perfect word for it.. I like your writing style. It clear and to the

point. Rave on.

[Montauk6]

77. Did Bartcop call the clothier to order another pink tutu yet?

OK, I'm joking.

[VegasWolf]

78. Opposing the filibuster is the COWARD's way of voting FOR Alito. nt

[distantearlywarning]

79. There is an over-reliance on the part of Democrats

for hiding in the corner and hoping the mean old Republicans won't notice them.

Frankly, doing ANYTHING to try to stop the fast ride to hell this country is taking, even "procedural maneuvers", would be a nice fucking change, Senator Obama.

:nuke:

[tsuki]

80. Good thing it's not 1956. He'd be bashing Rosa Parks for not

having a plan and the need to convince the public and that the effort would fail. No doubt in my mind. People seem to forget (those that are not as old as I) that she was savaged in the newspapers as a tool of the extreme left, those commie, pinko, leftist, radicals.

As far as I am concerned, the vote for Alito was today and Obama voted aye.

[ladjf]

86. He clearly showed his colors today and they aren't the ones

I would vote for.

[stepnw1f]

81. So Is This Grandstanding for Obama or the Dem Party? (nt)

[sui generis]

82. there is an over-reliance on us by our democratic senators

this is the most exciting part of democracy. We dump the people who sell us out.

[Mithras61]

87. For those who missed it...

Cloture vote:

72 FoR

25 AGAINST


and yes, Obama voted FOR cloture.

[SIU_Blue]

89. No he didn't

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x272463#273153

[Mithras61]

90. When the Senate secretary called his name...

she said "Obama... Obama - Aye"

At least, that's what C-SPAN on MY tv said...

[SIU_Blue]

92. I believe that was the opening role call?

when I called his office about 30 minutes ago his staffer told me he would support the filabuster.

[Mithras61]

94. Could be it was opening roll call, but there were several...

Senators walking up to her desk and she would state their name & either aye or no.

Of course, it could also be that he changed his vote (that's allowed too) or that I mis-heard... I don't claim to be perfect...

[SIU_Blue]

96. I don't claim to be perfect either

but according to this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x273874

he voted no on cloture.

I also called his office and got the same info.

I better be right because I worked to get him elected and if he voted Yes I need to take a shower.

[Mithras61]

98. Didn't mean to imply anything negative about you...

I've been told I come across as if I thought I were perfect. I was just stating that I know better, and didn't mean to imply anything. I was simply trying to allow that I could quite easily be wrong.

:)

[SIU_Blue]

100. It's all good!!!

except for the alito thing of course...

at least we still have DU!

:)

[Mithras61]

139. Well, I was clearly wrong...

http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/campaignforthecourt/2006/01/roll_call_of_th.html

Roll Call of the Cloture Vote

The Associated Press tallied the 72-25 vote:

On this vote, a "yes" vote was a vote to end the debate and a "no" vote was a vote to filibuster the nomination.

Voting "yes" were 19 Democrats and 53 Republicans.

Voting "no" were 24 Democrats and one independent.!

Democrats Yes

Akaka, Hawaii; Baucus, Mont.; Bingaman, N.M.; Byrd, W.Va.; Cantwell, Wash.; Carper, Del.; Conrad, N.D.; Dorgan, N.D.; Inouye, Hawaii; Johnson, S.D.; Kohl, Wis.; Landrieu, La.; Lieberman, Conn.; Lincoln, Ark.; Nelson, Fla.; Nelson, Neb.; Pryor, Ark.; Rockefeller, W.Va.; Salazar, Colo.

Democrats No

Bayh, Ind.; Biden, Del.; Boxer, Calif.; Clinton, N.Y.; Dayton, Minn.; Dodd, Conn.; Durbin, Ill.; Feingold, Wis.; Feinstein, Calif.; Kennedy, Mass.; Kerry, Mass.; Lautenberg, N.J.; Leahy, Vt.; Levin, Mich.; Menendez, N.J.; Mikulski, Md.; Murray, Wash.; Obama, Ill.; Reed, R.I.; Reid, Nev.; Sarbanes, Md.; Schumer, N.Y.; Stabenow, Mich.; Wyden, Ore.

Democrats Not Voting

Harkin, Iowa.

I guess I must have mistaken the vote as you suggested.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ecstatic]

91. amazing! I'm speechless n/t

[reality based]

93. I had a comment but yours just about sums it up.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SIU_Blue]

97. Good Idea! Leave a dying party for a dead one!

that should help!!!!!

:sarcasm:

Disclaimer: sorry that this is so fiesty, hope I don't offend anyone. I just read this and recalled my favorite Onion headline of all time: "Libertarian reluctantly calls fire department"

[VegasWolf]

104. Count my wife and I in with those people. nt

[Dogmudgeon]

132. Yeah, right

Go gloat with your friends.

--p!

[Orsino]

99. Mr. Smith Just Called...

He wants his seat back.

[mydreamcametrue]

102. Obama is right.

You gotta win with ideas, not procedures.

The games are getting old.

[Stuckinthebush]

148. I'm ready to hear his ideas

I'm not hearing them though...I thought he was supposed to be our new "leader", groomed to take the Dems to victory!

[VegasWolf]

103. That's it. I'm changing my affiliation from Democrat to Independent

immediately. I don't even want to be called a Democrat again. True, there is no viable independent party at the moment, but the numbers will grow. Those who voted for Nader last time aren't going to be happy with the weak-kneed democrats. Their numbers will only grow. The Democrats have proved that they are not worthy to be in power. Someday there may be a real opposition party.

[Senator Obama]

106. I am seething after reading this thread

I am a lifelong Democrat, having first voted for Jimmy Carter and every Democratic nominee since that time. The Senator is right on with his statements. There are many on this thread with their head up their ass that do not understand the concept of tough love. Because you criticize your party that does not mean you do not love it or cherish it's ideals. Remember the argument from the right...you don't love America? Check yourselves and look ni the mirror. The Democratic party is being butt fucked by the Republicans, and every last one of you Obama haters must really enjoy that feeling. You have the nerve to eviscerate the man for making what I believe is a VERY constructive statement. I find the comparisons to Uncle Tom, a sellout, et al, unworthy of what I thought would be a high level of discourse on this site. I am seldom lost for words. Trust me IF I said what was really on my mind at this point, the moderators would censure and delete my post all together.

As a black American I have demonstrated unwavering support for this party, often defending my membership in this party to GOP acquaintances and stating in no uncertain terms that if a black man will be elected President, it will be from the Democratic Party. I am disheartened by the demise of the party. I came to this site to renew my hope. The only hope I would have now is that you Obama haters find another party. For you to excoriate this man for these remarks with the kind of malicious attacks on his character as listed here, it's clear to me that I do not want to associate myself with your thinking.

How the fuck do you think Bill Clinton won the presidency? He shut down the loonie left. He took Jessie to the woodshed and told him to shut the fuck up and get on board. What alternative did Jesse have? What alternative do liberals have. Too many special and narrow interests unable to agree that the sky is blue. What a joke. The party goes nowhere with the crap I read on this thread. I'm just so disgusted, I'm shaking as I type this.

Obama

[jeffrey_X]

113. Great post....

Can't belive so many people are bashing Obama here.

If he's got to play the middle from time to time to put himself in position to become president, I have no problem with. I know where he comes from and what lies at the core of his heart and beliefs. He's got 100% of my support no matter what he does. Some of you here should read his book and find out what experiences are driving this man's quest to change this country.

[Psephos]

127. Superb post - true progressives take note

This kind of squabbling telegraphs deep weakness to voters, and gives ammo to wingnuts who love to refer to the "Angry Left."

There are two alternatives available to us. We can pull together around those core ideas we hold in common, lay off the purity purges, and convince voters in the next election our ideas and plans are the best path to what they want and need. Or, we can continue to f-bomb our own people at the slightest provocation, split ourselves into squabbling factions, and spend the next few years masturbating on DU and Kos because frankly there's nothing better to do.

One course requires self-discipline and a sense of a larger goal. The other requires only self-indulgence and cynicism. I know which one I'm picking.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dogmudgeon]

133. Excellent post. Outstanding. And sad, but true.

Every time "we" don't get what we want, we have a collective nervous breakdown. At least twice a week now.

Unfortunately, this is as much of The Problem as the Republicans are. The worst enemies are always the internal ones -- fear, doubt, rage, indiscipline. Tantrums.

The only thing I can say in partial defense is that there are four or five "Stealth Freepers" -- hard-case right-wingers who snuck in to post snickering, or racist, or homophobic, comments. DU Rules prohibit naming names, but you probably saw at least one or two of them.

Thank you for gritting your teeth and finishing the essay in spite of your anger. It needed to be said -- and it needs to be said at least twice a week. I hope you'll stay around, too, because there are a lot of heads that need to be pulled out of asses -- under threat of kicking.

--p!

[Senator Obama]

143. Thankyou...

The steady stream of steam coming from my ears has subsided to occasional wisps..:-). In another day or two perhaps I'll make better sense, being more concise and focused. I think we have a lot of folks looking to cook a gourmet meal when what we really need to cook is a stew. We are a party of inclusion. That is both a strength and unfortunately it can be a weakness. We all must compromise to put together the best common platform and parlay that into electing DEMOCRATS who support those core principles. We can't effect change from the sidelines. Unfortunately, that is exactly what we're trying to do right now. There is a considerable contingent of people who think they can change the outcome of the game from a seat in the stands. We need to get on the playing field before we have a chance. And we'll get nowhere arguing about which Democrat is worthy of playing in the game. I've had a life of taking lemons and making lemonade. We have to do the same to win back our rightful place in the governance of this country.

We need some focused issues going into the 2006 elections. I'm not getting this from the DLC at present. I admit I need to acquaint myself with their website, but this message needs to be verbalized as the electorate just doesn't read those sites. It is time NOW for us to start articulating these messages. The budget, tax cuts, education, health care, the war in Iraq/terrorism, foreign policy, rebuilding our infrastructure, protecting our homeland. Let's hammer those tax cuts, jump on being fiscally responsible, be clear in our conviction that we can secure domestic tranquility and welfare without compromising our national security. Moreover let's articulate that we are the party to bring ethical governance back to Washington. I want to see campaign finance reform of meaningful scope that moves toward publicly funded elections and reduces the influence of corporate lobbies and I want to see Diebold in trash heap come 2006. I'm working now to compose a letter to the Senator with my thoughts on the ethics situation. I want to see Obama use his considerable gifts to light a fire under this issue.

Obama..not the real one..LOL..

Obama

[bling bling]

140. Great post. n/t

[blue cat]

110. We need him to do what is right

no matter what the public thinks, because we don't know all the facts, he does. The public ain't getting educated these days.

[Billary2008]

114. he's running for president

If you think Obama is on our side, think again. he's calculating his run for president. he'll sacrifice anything to be "electable".

[jeffrey_X]

115. How is running for President being "on the other side"....?

Your logic makes no sense and you obviously don't know much about the man.

[Senator Obama]

118. What side is "your" side?....

If you mean the losing side, then yes he is not on your side. And the man has sacrificed nothing. This thread is filled with attacks against a man who supported the fillibuster. There were at least 20 Demos who did not. Where's the outrage there?

He voted against cloture and is entitled to speak his peace.

Obama

[MadisonProgressive]

122. I agree with what you say, but

just wished he would have waited a week or two to make his observations.

[Democat]

124. Obama is pointing out the obvious - Democrats have no winning strategy

Democrats let the Republicans define Alito because most elected Democrats didn't want to stand up and fight from the beginning - they wanted to keep putting off fighting for as long as possible because they were afraid of looking mean or offeding people.

If Democrats wanted to win, Democrats would have had to start a full scale campaign against Alito from the day he was announced and kept up that up for as long as it took. That's what Republicans would have done. They would have turned the public against Alito, then the "procedural maneuvers" would have had support from the public.

You can see this as a "sellout" by Obama or you can see it as a statement pointing out the obvious problem with the current Democratic Party.

When did John Kerry decide he was going to filibuster? After it was too late. Kerry and the Democrats should have been ready to filibuster the day that Alito was nominated and they should have run had a full national campaign to convince the public "their values are at stake".

Democratic strategy has failed us again.

[kurth]

125. Wasn't the 2000 selection a "procedural maneuver"?

[zann725]

128. Predictably "spoken" like the TRUE moderate, DLC, he is.

In ANY negotiation, most often you HAVE to "stall" to get what you want. It's part of bargaining...and BOTH sides should always have that option.

Since the issue at stake happens to be in the "political" arena, any gesture, or vote or decision, or NOT...IS "political"...because the players in the game ARE Politicians.

I hate that tag, "the Dems are just being 'political.'" Of course they are, it's what they're paid to do. It's their job...as Politicians.

[1932]

130. Obama is not DLC.

[dolstein]

129. The easiest way to tell when a Democrat is making sense . . .

is that DU'ers start having coniption fits.

Obviously, Obama is making a lot of sense.

[RBInMaine]

138. You're Right On, and so is Obama!

Yes, everyone is very disappointed in the Alito nomination. It stinks out loud! Yet every poll shows solid national majorities backing his confirmation. Why? Because Dems and Progressives did not do the work they needed to do to convince average Americans that he (and the national R's in general) flies in the face of MAINSTREAM American values and positions on most issues. And even with that, like it or not the R's are in the majority and have all the votes they need for confirmation and then some. If you are upset about this don't sit back and complain, and jumping ship to Independent or fringe third parties or staying home only bolsters the radical R's. No! Stay engaged and involved in the fight to build the Democratic Party from the grassroots up in every office at every level in every corner of this country. IF WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO APPOINT PEOPLE TO THE SUPREME COURT, AND IF WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SET THE AGENDA, THEN WE NEED TO WIN MORE ELECTIONS! NOW IS THE TIME TO FIGHT, NOT CUT AND RUN! NOW IS TIME TO UNITE THIS PARTY, SET OUR NATIONAL AGENDA, AND TAKE IT TO THE PEOPLE! THERE IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY THIS CYCLE TO RE-CLAIM THE CONGRESS AND STATEHOUSES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IF WE CLEARLY STATE OUR VALUES, PUT OUT A CLEAR AND COMPELLING PLAN, AND WORK LIKE HELL! PEOPLE ARE READY FOR CHANGE AND THEY WILL VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS BUT ONLY IF WE DO THESE THINGS. AND YES, THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM WITHIN OUR CORE VALUES FOR BOTH PROGRESSIVES AND MODERATES. IN FACT, WE ARE THE PARTY OF THE MAINSTREAM SENSIBLE CENTER IN THIS COUNTRY. THE R's ARE THE PARTY OF THE FAR RIGHT AND THE BIG CORPORATIONS, AND THEY SPEND EVERY WAKING MOMENT PROVING JUST THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

[Stuckinthebush]

149. I don't think it is an issue of making sense

Certainly, we all would agree that Democrats need to get their values heard and need to convince Americans that their values are at stake with Alito like nominations.

The problem is that Mr. Obama seems to be just tsk tsking, and shaking he head after the fact. "My, my, we just use silly procedural games to oppose Bush." A note to Obama: That is all the minority has. Through the use of filibusters, the Democrats can show their convictions and can stand up for what they believe even if it is a losing fight. Time after time, the dems need to use these tactics to be heard over the din of mindless media voices discussing the latest book club author on Oprah. And frankly, I didn't see Mr. Obama out front talking about our values every chance he could, and being a leader on this issue. He is our leadership. We rely on him and every Dem in the Senate to carry our flag publicly.

So his saying that we need to do a better job convincing voters is a "no shit Sherlock" type of statement. But his saying that we can't rely on procedural issues to defeat Bush is ridiculous because that is all we have at this moment. We need to do both, and Senators need not make it sound like they were disgusted that they were forced to do it. That makes sense.

[Senator Obama]

157. Well let's see now....

Mr. Obama voted for cloture. Exactly how is he at fault that the filibuster failed? Filibuster or not, Alito would be confirmed. Do you think anybody who didn't already would even care? There should be throngs of the masses lined up at the White House seeking to throw the bum at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue out of the place. Where are they? The most corrupt government in years, yet nobody seems to give a shit. With so much going against the opposition, how is it that we manage to allow them to control the government?

Who died and made Obama a leader? Harry Reid is the Minority leader. Obama is a first term junior senator. Doesn't have a seat in Senate leadership. Care to elect the man to some responsibiity and then persecute him? Do you have a clue as to why a relative moderate such as Colin Powell chose the Republican party? That's because he's got no time to listen to all the silly whining that characterizes the party debate on this side of the isle.

Obama

[lakeguy]

141. i criticize Obama's critique!

HA, take that!

[kaygore]

154. Guess he doesn't want to be president any more