Bush to GM, Ford: Make more appealing cars

[sabra]

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/26/news/companies/bush_autos.reut/?cnn=yes

Bush to GM, Ford: Make more appealing cars
President tells newspaper that he'd be reluctant to bail out nation's automakers.


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush said General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. should develop more appealing products rather than look to Washington for help with their heavy pension burdens, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

In an interview Wednesday, Bush said he had not talked to the struggling companies about their finances but hinted that he would take a dim view of a government bailout of the top two U.S. automakers, the newspaper reported.

"I have been very reluctant -- I'm mindful of the past where at one point in time, a predecessor of mine was faced with that same dilemma," Bush was quoted as saying. "I would hope I wouldn't be asked to make that decision."

Asked if he had spoken to GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner or Ford Chief Executive Bill Ford Jr., Bush told the newspaper, "Not about their balance sheets."

[baby_mouse]

1. This particular slant doesn't appear unreasonable on the face of it

It least it's CONSISTENT capitalism.

It'll be a shame if all those car plant workers lose their jobs...

[Ilsa]

2. It doesn't matter how appealing they are if Americans can't afford

them because their wages are too low, president dumbass. Wasn't it Henry Ford who figured out that he wanted to pay his employees well enough that they could afford his product?

[gtar100]

32. It was actually his wife who figured that out

And ol' Henry had to be reluctantly talked into it.

[Cronus Protagonist]

36. Mustangs are affordable

If you have decent credit... $259 a month brand spanking new, and they look DAMN good too



Disclaimer: I own one :)

[Rigby Reardon]

43. I don't like the new ones

They look to much like the old fastbacks

[Bombero1956]

50. that price

is that for the GT or the 6 cyl?

[Cronus Protagonist]

56. It's for the V6 - lease

Details here: http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/mustang/?v=html

I've driven both and sure, the GT is louder and has a nicer look (dual foglamps and dual tailpipes), but it also drinks very expensive gasoline. I have the V6, which is still very much a muscle car (more powerful than the '04 V8) and it's not as expensive.

[NickB79]

60. The perfect family car

Not. No disrespect to people who have the extra disposable income to afford a muscle car, but the majority of Americans, myself included, need a fuel-efficient car with decent (not mind-boggling) horsepower that can be used for commuting, transporting the kids, carrying groceries, etc. In an era when gas prices are going up fast and the average American's income has actually declined over the past 5 years when adjusted for inflation, a Mustang is not going to cut it.

When gas hits $3+ again this summer, it will not be affordable to drive to work daily in a Mustang.

[Cronus Protagonist]

61. True. I drive about 5000 miles a year, so it's not an issue for me

No commuting for me.

:evilgrin:

[Booster]

65. Not long ago the subject of gas prices was in a thread here, and

someone said the cars in Europe (including Fords) got 60 miles to the gallon. Does anyone know if this is true, and, if it is, WTF?

[tabasco]

66. Yes, they have cars that get 60 mpg in Europe.

A lot of people in Europe drive cars that get over 40mpg.

I rented a 3-cylinder Ford Fiesta and drove it all over Germany. At least 60 mpg on the autobahn. Have you ever seen a 3-cylinder model for sale in the US? I haven't.

I own a Toyota Echo that gets almost 50 mpg. The car has plenty of power with a high-tech 4-banger.

Before the gas crisis, Toyota couldn't sell these things. Now you can't find one because they decided to sell them only in Europe.

Since the gas crisis, Toyota decided to start selling the Echo again in the US with the European name, Yaris. I think they will sell better now that gas keeps going up and won't come down. They are much cheaper than a hybrid and much better quality than a Focus or a Neon.

It will be sold again in the US as the Yaris.

[Booster]

76. People in other countries must laugh at us here. We pay more

for almost everything and get duped on a daily basis. You would think anything sold in the world would be available to us also, but as we see with cars that get good gas mileage, drugs, etc., we are just being made to look like fools. Makes me mad.

[gulfcoastliberal]

77. Suzuki Swift/Geo metro

They had 3 cylinders and sold in the US.

The Toyota Yaris is a worldcar that will be on sale here soon and gets 40mpg city.

[NickB79]

75. They drive a lot of small diesels

A small diesel engine in a compact car can deliver outstanding fuel economy.

[Ally McLesbian]

81. The European holy grail

They want to build a "3-liter" car... not a car with 3-liter displacement, but a car that only needs 3 liters of fuel to go 100 kilometers.

That's 33 kilometers per liter, or about 75-80 miles per gallon.

I'm definitely interested.

[Dhampir Kampf]

86. I'm sure..

Insurance for it is a bitch though.

[killbotfactory]

3. Don't take business advice from Bush

That can only lead to trouble.

[WePurrsevere]

5. That was my first thought as well. How many times did he personally

make a business successful WITHOUT "help" an/or a "bail out" from his Daddy or his cronies?

[rodeodance]

8. yes, Bush has problems with the gov. spreadsheets!

Asked if he had spoken to GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner or Ford Chief Executive Bill Ford Jr., Bush told the newspaper, "Not about their balance sheets."

[ChoralScholar]

22. Why not? Padding his own pockets is the only thing he's GOOD at! EOM

[derby378]

4. Translation: Bush to autoworkers - "You're on your own"

It doesn't matter how much it hurts our national economy or infrastructure - Nero isn't exactly one to root for the home team.

A better response would have been to encourage Ford to sell hybrid vehicles rather than just talk about them over the drawing board. One of these days, concept cars have to become reality in one form or another - otherwise, why design them in the first place?

Meanwhile, Toyota continues to gobble up business, and yours truly is driving a Camry. Oh, if only it had a diesel engine so I could use biodiesel...

[Canuckistanian]

19. Funny, that's what he told Californians during the energy crisis

When * becomes a laissez-faire capitalist is when I wonder what's really going on.

[SammyWinstonJack]

20. LOL

Nero isn't exactly one to root for the home team. Ain't that the truth?

"Our enemies never stop thinking of ways to harms us, and neither do we."

Slip of the tongue or the one time Pinhead** actually told the truth?

[rodeodance]

6. This is Hil. Clintons new slogan-You are on your own.

[OzarkDem]

7. Pick-ups with a rack of steer horns on the front?

Bush also probably thinks they need to make more cars like those "pimped out" Caddies the Texas oil barons drive around.

[SpiralHawk]

9. "Make the pie higher." - Kommander AWOL

As if he had a clue...

[tanyev]

10. Welcome to Yeronyerownistan, GM and Ford.

Most Americans have already been here for 5 years.

[free4now]

14. I like the new name can we make a flag?

:rofl: :rofl:

[tanyev]

17. Well, here in Yeronyerownistan most people just pick up a scrap

of cloth lying around the house and tie it to a stick, so knock yourself out!

:)

[DS1]

11. DUH! Bush family & cronies have to fly on public airlines now and then

but there's no way any of 'em will be buying a Ford, so of course these workers can go to hell.

[leesa]

12. Bye, bye pensions...exactly as planned. Bye, bye insurance coverage

exactly as planned. A year or two, people will be begging for minimum wage jobs at these plants without benefits...the corporations have won.

Thanks all you Bush supporters!!

[hogwyld]

31. This has been going on for a long time!

To be honest, it started long b4 Bushco and Clinton. Somewhere along the line, Americans quit being patriotic and buying American cars and other products. It became chic to drive German, Italian, and British cars. People sold out the American worker to buy Japanese and Korean cars. Everyone should look in the mirror and honestly ask themselves if they helped out their countrymen by buying American made products. I can proudly say, I have always bought American cars, and always will. Although it's not always possible, I will always choose an American product over one made overseas. If we buy American products, then Americans work.

[gtar100]

33. I wouldn't blame it on human vanity over patriotism

It became 'chic' to drive european cars because the US car makers weren't coming out with anything like it - why not? And Japanese and Korean cars do two things that are hard to come by in American-made cars - good gas mileage and long life. What was stopping GM, Ford, Chrysler from doing the same thing? American manufacturering went the way of greed and was therefore ignorantly short-sided in it's offerings. They struck out on both ends of the market.

This isn't the worker's fault. And this is no excuse for the corporate executives to raid the pension funds for their own swimming pools (or escape from the US...). These people who have been in positions of power should bite the bullet even more than the workers - because it's their fault these businesses are in the shape they're in.

We need tariff laws and public investment into industry to support strong US businesses. We can't put this on the shoulders of the American people. When I'm looking at $5 in my wallet and a pile of bills on my desk, American-made or imported is not what is going to force my decision, as much as I would like it to be.

Sincerely,
Former Ford Escort and Pontiac Bonneville owner (both used when purchased)

(now I ride a bicycle - I am truly upwardly mobile, eh)

[hogwyld]

38. I applaud your honesty

Which is saying a lot more than some people around here. I have also been turning more to my bike as I want to get raped by the oil whores as little as possible. I too would like to see severe tariffs to protect some of our most critical industries such as major manufacturing jobs, steel, shipbuilding. My main gripe is when everyone bemoans the loss of middle class manufacturing jobs and unemployment on their way to the Kia dealership. The big 3 had their problems in the '80s and early '90s, but are pretty decent cars now.

[Art_from_Ark]

47. Here's another thing

The Big Two essentially outsourced their small car production to concentrate on the high-dollar and muscle cars. Chevy Sprint, for example, was made by Suzuki. But it was a damn good car (50mph highway), and a damn sight better than the model it replaced, the Chevette.

And, as you allude to, the Big Three were producing some pretty crappy cars back in the '80s and '90s. Ever drive a Chrysler K car? Biggest piece of junk I ever drove. At one time I was even thinking of getting a bumper sticker that said "All parts falling off this car are of the finest Chrysler workmanship".

So when you build crappy cars, you start to lose your customer base. And when you lose your customer base to another company or companies that build a better product, it's hard to lure those customers back.

[Ally McLesbian]

57. Case in point:

I have a Ford Contour. It was supposedly the most ambitious car ever built by Ford. It was designed by Ford's European designers, and was supposed to go dance with BMWs and other expensive European sports sedans. Yet it had the advantage of being affordable - and made in USA.

Guess what? It was the absolute worst piece of junk anyone in my social circles ever owned. The ignition coil got replaced, then the transmission (mind me - this is a MANUAL transmission, which is supposed to last forever), then the exhaust, plus lots of minor items. All the Camry and Accord drivers around me could only say "we told you so."

It doesn't help that (1) Ford is too busy building SUVs to ever cater to its car customers (in fact, Ford builds cars ONLY to raise its fleet fuel economy average), and (2) here in SoCal, American cars have lost so much ground that they are now driven only by Pat Buchanan-supporting extremists. Every time I go to an owner group to ask questions about my car, I only get right-wing political indoctrination.

When I bought my Ford, I had a choice between it and a Hyundai at the same price. I refused to buy the Hyundai because of perceived poor quality, and the neocons of the Korean-American community. But if I were to make the choice now, I will take Hyundai and its superior quality and 10-year warranty any day. (And Hyundai did move some of its Sonata production to Alabama, so American jobs ARE created.) In fact, I did buy a backup car just in case the Ford would fail me again... though I had some extra cash and decided to blow it on a BMW 3-series, the must-have item for any snob in SoCal. (Why do Los Angeles snobs drive BMWs instead of Cadillacs and Lincolns? Let's think again. For starters, despite the LS, Lincoln is way too geriatric.)

Ford has indeed admitted to having a crappy design in the Contour. Ford discontinued it for several years, then now finally came out with the Fusion, which is a Mazda design built in Mexico. Not exactly American union labor, is it? Of course, there is the Jaguar X-Type which still uses the Contour design, but it's unreliable as hell, and widely perceived to be the worst Jaguar ever.

[amandabeech]

79. I loved the Contour as a rental.

It started out as the Ford Europe "Mondeo." I think that model was redesigned, actually. I just loved the feel of the Contour's steering.

I heard, though, that the electrical system was THE worst, so it makes sense that it ended up with a British nameplate.

[Ally McLesbian]

80. You are correct

and I did mention in another post that the Contour had a year in Europe to have its bugs fixed before coming to America.

Yes, there is a new Mondeo in Europe, but it's not selling anywhere as well as the first model (the one that was sold as the Contour in the US).

And it is true that the enthusiast magazines drooled over the car, because it could indeed dance with the BMW 3-series for half the money. (You nailed it on the steering part.) But enthusiast magazines tell only half the story - the likes of Consumer Reports, and the drivers themselves, tell the story, and the vast majority are complaining.

I did have one major and one minor electrical problem - the ignition coil and a power window switch. But I've had plenty of problems in other departments too.

[hatrack]

64. AAGH!! The Chevette!! You had to go and remind of THAT car.

Or, as the Car Talk guys described it, "an engine surrounded by four pieces of drywall."

:evilgrin:

[Art_from_Ark]

69. Did the Chevette really have an engine?

The way it went up hills, I could have sworn it was powered by four hamsters running in their exercise wheels :evilgrin:

[conflictgirl]

68. This daughter of a GM worker agrees with you

And I have to make the huge disclaimer first that until relatively recently I was a diehard buy-American supporter and equated buying American products with patriotism. I still have a lot of those views, but I've changed my mind. And that's a huge thing for me to say because I live in a GM town and my dad works for GM.

I don't think people are buying foreign cars for any type of status reasons. I am actually considering buying a (used) foreign car the next time I have to replace one of mine. And the reason I may replace my American-made car with a foreign one is because of my American-made cars. I have a 2001 Saturn right now, purchased new, and that car has had nothing but problems since it went off warranty at 50,000 miles. (It has 85,000 miles now - yes, a lot, but for many years it was our only car in an area where my husband had a long commute.) There is just no reason that a car such as ours should need a freaking new HEAD GASKET already. We've replaced other expensive things on it too, I'm not talking about normal maintenance like belts/hoses and batteries. And you know what people (namely members of my pro-GM-to-the-death family) have told me about that? "Well, you have a four-cylinder car, a 4-cyl car is going to start to go bad around 75,000 miles." That's total bullshit. My friends with even lower-end Hondas and Toyotas are not having the same problems. Nor do they share the philosophy that you can expect a five-year-old car to need a ton of work if it has a 4-cyl engine. I hate to admit it, but in reviewing the cars I've owned over the years (all of them American-made), the quality has been hit or miss. Some of them were great cars, some of them were lemons literally from the time I drove them off the lot. (Ask me about the 1999 Chevy Cavalier I bought brand new and had in the shop for repairs 6 times in a month, when the car had less than 20K miles on it.) I don't care about how a car looks quite frankly. I don't care about its prestige factor - well, I might, but I can't afford a prestigious car by any manufacturer. What I care about is an affordable car that I can keep for many years with reasonable maintenance. Many American car buyers that I know have bought into this idea that a car with a four-cylinder engine can't be expected to last more than 100,000 miles. They've bought into the idea that if you get a compact car, it will inherently need more repairs. In other words - if you buy a $35,000 American-made car with a big gas-guzzling engine, it will be reliable, but everything else is a piece of junk. But some people are starting to wake up and realize that its NOT necessary to accept that philosophy. A four-cyl. engine does not have to doom a car to a short lifespan. Buying a car made by a company that doesn't expect us all to believe that is looking better and better.

I don't blame the American car buyers either. I admit, I used to look down on people buying the Toyotas and Hondas as though they were personally responsible for the GM plant closings that destroyed my town. But it's really not their fault. The Big 3 American automakers for the most part have become so focused on profit for their executives and shareholders that they ruined their products. Also, this may be really unpopular to say, but what did they think would happen when they replaced highly paid Americans with years of experience and journeymen certifications, etc, with people in other countries like Mexico willing to work for a dollar an hour? I'm not saying that people in other countries can't do as good of work as we Americans do - in some cases it might even be better. But if you're going to gut wages in the hopes of increasing profits, you can't expect to get a good end product. The big automakers, at the corporate level, are the ones that destroyed their industry.

[VirginiaDem]

51. nationalistic mercantilism

Do you refuse to buy French wine? This kind of tired 19th century rot makes me sad to see on a "progressive" website. I know you're not alone; it's an unfortunate trend.

[Ally McLesbian]

58. And downright racist

when applied to Japanese and Chinese (and to a lesser extent, Korean) companies.

[raccoon]

53. In the 70's people bought foreign cars because they were

better on gas milage (and better built).

The big 3 were still coming out with the gas guzzlers.

Know what they came up with to compete with foreign small cars?

(Tah-dah) the Vega and the Pinto!

[trogdor]

13. Well, it worked out well for his predecessor, didn't it?

Chrysler paid off the government early, with interest, and saved thousands and thousands of jobs. People forget President Carter did good things like this

Of course, it's all in the execution, and that's not one of Dumbya's strong points.

[rooboy]

15. * is assisting GM & Ford in providing an excuse to move offshore.

eom

[hatrack]

16. Like the hybrids you made fun of during the 2000 campaign, George?

And Gov. Engler and the autoworkers laughed right along.

Guess they're not laughing now, President Asshat.

What an arrogant little prick.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

27. Beautiful point.

Beautifully put.

[wordpix]

18. why isn't BushCo ferried around in hybrid cars instead of gas guzzling

Mercedes, Lincolns and Caddies?

A: They couldn't care less about conservation/hybrid cars
and
A: If they want to be ferried around in American hybrids, there aren't any except a Ford SUV

[saigon68]

73. Because of Security

Unlike Fidel who walks the streets openly

He has to hide behind 6 inches of armor plate

Because he is afraid (read chicken) of the citizens (the great unwashed)

LOL

[mitts]

21. how about just making a car that lasts as long as foreign competitors

Its no big secret. American cars suck ass compared to Honda and Toyota. So when it comes to pissing your money away on a material item that deprciates by $1000 as soon as you leave the dealers parking lot....well you'd better have made a wise decision.

I see friends with Chevy's putting hundreds of dollars a year on this going out, and brakes failing EVERY year, and on and on and on. On top of their payments. So like one person pointed out, WHO CAN AFFORD an American car. Especially after you educater yourself on what car will last the longest with the least amount of repairs.

My 5 year old '01 Civic with 90000 miles I can still sell for almost 10Gs. An '01 Cavalier with that many miles......YEAH RIGHT!

I must say that I'm suprised Bush has made some comments about becoming less dependent on foreign oil but must again agree with how hypocritical that is when our government is stock piled with gas guzzling monsterously sized cars. Its idiotic. But what do you expect from Team Bush.

And as far as "bailing" out GM.....well I don't mean to sound heartless to the people that are loosing their jobs but how about taking the money from the CEO's responsible for running the company into the ground and having their coke filled heads so far up their asses they couldn't tell that they've been making shitty cars for the past 25 years. Get a clue and if I were to EVER hope GWB stands by his word it would be for this issue of the amount of corporate welfare GM will ask for. Again...take it away from the idiotic CEO's and managers that still sit pretty and watched stock prized rise as they dumped 30000 people into the street.

[Ally McLesbian]

23. This is W's way

of making GM and Ford terminate the pension plan for the workers.

He pulled the same crap with United Airlines and the airline industry.

GM and Ford do need better products, yes, but we shouldn't let W get away with gutting pensions for America's workers.

[BrotherBuzz]

24. Maybe Bush* should step in and use the Hitler plan...

He seems to be following most of Hitler's blueprints as it is.


Fascinated by Ford's Model T, Hitler wanted a low-cost, economical motorcar for German workers who would pay for their car by subscription in advance. Thus, VW's formidable manufacturing enterprise was financed with OPM - other people's money. After gaining his dictatorship in 1933, der Fuehrer ("the leader") summoned famous Stuttgart race car designer Ferdinand Porsche to Berlin and ordered him to develop a Peoples' Car to exacting performance specifications. The Folkswagon was born.

Bush could call his version "vee-dubya"

[dysfunctional press]

28. VW's are "fun" cars to drive.

we bought a used new beetle- and i LOVE it...right down to the bud vase(and yes, we keep flowers in it). It's got a 2-litre turbo, and that little sucker can FLY.
between their styling, and especially the colour palette they use, VW has the "fun" market cornered- and i think it's a mistake for them to pursue the high-end market with the Phaeton...but i can't blame them for going after a share of the SUV market with the Toureg(sp?)- i just wish they would have come up with a better name- and from what i hear, the diesel version does very nicely and is highly sought after.

I'll admit- the new Beetle does have it's share of problems and design quirks- but it really is a very fun car to own and drive.

[cliss]

25. News Flash to Bush:

We don't have the money to bail them out. You spent it all on Iraq & Afghanistan, and other crony contractors here in the US>

[MichiganVote]

26. Will someone please tell the airlines to make better planes?

[anotherdrew]

29. the republican command economy is going great! the Folkswagon due soon!

he also commanded insurance companies to fix his mess with the medicare problems! Let's have some more commands from the small government CEO president.

Perhaps he should command the construction of a real peoples car, a Folkswagon if you will....

[Tight_rope]

30. ROTFLMBAO.....This fool just kills me with his stupidity!

:rofl:

[DainBramaged]

34. He bailed out the airlines after 9/11 yet screws Union workers now

Somewhere over 170,000 auto industry jobs have been lost since this clown STOLE office, and he wants the displaced workers to retrain? FOR FUCKING WHAT? Most are in their 40's and 50's. They are well trained in assembly work, so I guess another industry gets sent overseas and the Unions get busted down.

Those of you who buy Foreign, as the middle class spirals down to minimum wage status, don't cry when you find the only jobs left are cleaning toilets in the offices of the elite and wealthy or adding fries to those burgers you sell.

[nodehopper]

52. I'd buy a domestic car but

I have a very limited income. I bought a used car this year, I paid $2000, and that was more than I budegeted for it originally. I knew that there was no way I was getting a car with under 100k on it. Given all that, I had to buy a Japanese car. 100K on an American car is a joke, that's not even a car anymore, that's just parts. 100K on a Toyota means it will go for another 100K with no problem (knock on wood). Really, it's the durability issue.

[raccoon]

54. Those of you who buy foreign?

Toyota Camrys are made in Kentucky, BMW's in SC, and I'm sure there are other examples.

Even if you buy a car made by GM, Ford, or Chrysler, lots of the parts were made overseas.

[Tanuki]

35. No, he'd rather give our tax money to Halliburton

so they hire people from Nepal to work like slaves in Iraq. What a miserable excuse for a human.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1017-25.htm
(edited to add link)

[happyslug]

37. American cars are as good as European and Japanese Cars.

Maybe a notch below, but as to quality almost equal. This was NOT always the case, in the 1970s American Cars rusted out quicker than Foreign Cars for Foreign cars used Galvanized Steel in places car rust, the US used regular Steel (and thus the Rust Problem). This was solved by the mid-1980 with the American Car manufacturers going to Galvanized steel in the same locations.

As to engines, American cars last as long as Japanese if not longer (Those V-8s and V-6 lasts a LONG TIME, four cylinders tend to last 1/3 less).

The real problems of American Cars are the following:
1. Their Transmissions, the US is one of the few countries where Automatics are more Popular than Standard transmission. Starting in the 1960s till the 1990s these tended to be three Speed automatics geared for the large V-8s of the 1960s, through in the 1980s you saw a reduction in size to reflect the shift to the V-6s.

2. American Cars flaws first appear in the US NOT Japan or Germany. The big problems with American Cars is that their are first sold in the US and thus you only see the long term problems of an American Car two to three years After it is introduced (and than the problem "fixed" but the reputation stays). Japanese cars tend to be introduced in Japan two to three years BEFORE their are introduced into the US and thus the Bugs are gone by the time the car is introduced into the US Market (and this goes to Automatic Transmissions for the Japanese do try to test them out on Japanese car owners first).

3. The widespread adoption of anti-lock brakes in the 1990s, the first generation were crap, but subsequent generations were as good as non-anti-lock brakes when it came to life expectancy (I owned a 1990 Chevy Lumina whose brakes had to be changed every 20,000 miles or about once a year, I now drive a Jeep Wrangler and its brakes last 2-3 years and almost 50,000 miles before I need to replace the pads).

4. The SUV craze of the 1990s. In many ways the SUV craze is the re-birth of the land yachts of the late 1960s and early 1970s, large cars saying someone an afford to fill a 20 gallon tank in a car getting 10 mpg. Very popular and very large for those people who believe their needed the larger car to drive themselves and their families. Like the land Yachts of the early 1970s stop selling after oil embargo of 1973.

5. Lack of Job Security among most American workers since 2000. People will try NOT to incur debt when they feel insecure about their jobs. Starting in 2000 you had the GOP screaming about how the Democrats were ruining this country, then Bush became president and we had a major recession which made people's job insecurity increase. Technically we have been out of that recession for a couple of years, but people still are not secure in their jobs. You have Republican saying that if people are insecure in their jobs they work harder AND do not demand wage increases, but these same GOP economist do NOT tell people that such insecure workers also do NOT buy new expensive major purchases unless they have to (i.e. when the old car breaks down they repair it instead of buying a new one).

With the addition of Job Insecurity (which did not exist to the extend it does today in the 1970s) the same problems that hit the big three in 1973 is hitting them again. The Big Three placed a bet that large Cars will continue to sell and people will buy bigger and bigger cars. This ended when the price of Gasoline went up both times (and has stayed down given people today feel their jobs are insecure, when in the 1970s most workers felt secure in their jobs).

Now how to solve the problem. First you must understand that a Car factory takes years to set up and is expected to last for years (sometime for a decade or more). Given this long lead time switching production takes time and money. In the meantime you have to sell the cars you have knowing that they are NOT what is Selling. In the 1970s the big three all had resources to ride out the storm of high gasoline prices, but the problem is today they do not. Why? First the Market share of the Big 3 has dropped (and started to drop in the 1970s do to the Japanese being able to export to the US a lot of Small well built cars). This drop in market share hurts the Big 3 in that they have less income coming in when they need more income.

Second, people are less secure in their jobs so are more reluctant to take on the new debt of a new car.

Third in the 1970s the Japanese did not yet have a firm grip on the Coasts (Where the Japanese cars sells the best even today), so the Big three were able to still sell their Land yachts while their downsized in a matter to maximize their profits (i.e. NOT all of their car line sat once but one at a time over a period of almost ten years). One of the comments at the time was the "Full-Size" cars of the mid-1970s were SMALLER on the outside then the "Mid-Size" cars of the time period. When the Mid-size cars were Downsized they became smaller on the outside than the "Compact" cars the big three were selling. In today's market GM and Ford can NOT AFFORD TO DO THAT. People will just shift buying to a Japanese or other Foreign car maker (or hold on to their present car which more and more Americans are doing). Thus another drain on the American Auto makers (and I will NOT mention the INCREASE in the use of Public Transportation since 2000, the first increase since the 1970s which indicates some people who use to have cars no longer do).

But the biggest problem is the general drop in new cars purchases in Middle America (Where American cars still sell quite well). These buyers have NOT switched to Foreign cars, instead they are driving cars 5-10 years older then did their parents did in the 1970s. Remember the rust problem of the 1970s, people had to get rid of their cars after about five years in the Rust Belt in the 1970s, thus GM and FORD had a steady stream of new cars buyers in the 1970s. Since the 1980s when GM and Ford matched the Japanese on rust control on their cars, American Cars are lasting 10-15 years (and sometime 20 years) instead of the 5-10 of the 1970s. Thus people are NOT buying new cars like they had to in the 1970s and GM and Ford and suffering from this problem.

Thus the issue for the Big Three is NOT quality, in many ways their improvement in quality of their cars since the 1970s is one of their problems now. The problem is getting people to trade in their old American cars for new ones. That is just not happening. Personal comment, in my immediate family I drive a 1995 Wrangler that is still going good, my Sister is driving a 1997 Dodge Dakota, My brother is driving a 1997 Neon, and another Brother is Driving a 1995 Blazer, all have very little rust and still going good (and used for commuting). All American cars, all running almost like new compared to 5-10 year old cars we drove in the 1970s.

What will get us to buy a new car (foreign or Domestic)? Something that gets decent amount of Gas economy, plenty of Room when I take four people with me, looks good and drives good. They is really no car out there that I want more than the car I am driving now (and this includes the Japanese Cars). The Prius interest me, but it is best used in an urban area, a small engine car with a Standard transmission would do better in the boon docks I live in (And I do like the Mini-Cooper for that Reason).

In my relatives in more urban and congested areas, they like their Neon better than the new cars out there (including the new Neon). As to the Blazer driver he is looking at a new car but does NOT want another SUV, but again nothing really excites him (He likes the Prius but again he lives in the boondocks and the Prius is more design for urban use).

This is the problem of the American car makers, the older American Cars are lasting longer then ever and people are holding on to them until this economy improves. Until the economy improve and people start to feel secure in their jobs YOU WILL NOT SEE AN INCREASE IN CAR SALES and GM and FORD will both suffer until you have that increase in job Security. Insecurity breeds caution, and the American Buyer is Caution right no and has been since 2000.

[hogwyld]

39. Excellent analysis

I also feel that Detroit's quality is much better. A lot of bad perception is influencing car buyers. But it is a catch 22 in that people won't buy cars until the economy improves, but the economy won't improve until people buy American cars.

[tabasco]

49. Here's my analysis.

I owned many American cars which were maintenance nightmares. My last Ford, which was purchased new, lasted 76,000 miles before falling apart in need of constant costly repair. It also broke down the first week I had it. The dealer treated me like crap.

I have owned two Japanese vehicles. The first went over 200,000 miles and I sold it for $500. The second one, which I am driving now, has had no maintenance problems and gets close to 50 mpg. The dealer treats me like royalty.

Analysts can tell me Americasn cars are good quality. Analysts can also tell me the sky is blue. I don't believe either one.

[happyslug]

55. The Dealers are the weak point in selling US Cars

Under various state laws passed in the 1940 through 1960s, Dealers were given a good bit of independence from the Car manufactures. The dealers pushed hard for these laws to "Protect" them from the Carmakers. The problem is these laws prevent Carmakers from getting rid of any bad dealers AND prevent the Car Makers from opening up new franchises within so many miles of an existing franchise. In some states these laws prevent he Car makers from selling the cars directly to the consumers instead of through a dealer (Thus when internet sales started it was by certain aggressive dealers, the Car makers were so restricted that they could only sell USED cars on the net, given that the Big Three owned Car rental companies such ex-rentals were the first cars sold by the big three on the net).

I have dealt with US Car maker’s dealers; all of them are just bad. They want to maximize profits at the expense of the Consumer and the Car Makers and use their state laws to do so.

Let me give you an example, the first three year Warranty on a Car was introduced in the late 1950s by Nash-Rambler (later AMC). It was a popular program with consumers BUT DEALERS HATED IT. The dealers put pressure on AMC to drop it in the mid-1960s. The reason for the hatred of the Warranty was the dealers could charge the buyer More for the repairs AND be paid the day the repairs were done, as oppose to be paid 2-3 months later by the Maker.

Now the Japanese saw the advantage of the Extended Warranty and most Japanese companies ALWAYS gave such a Warranty (or adopted them in the 1970s). The US Car makers matched those Warranties, but again the US Dealers complained and put pressure on the US makers to drop the Warranty for its was "Costing" the dealers to much money. The Japanese moved into the US in the late 1960s with new dealerships generally independent of the older American Dealers. These new Dealers were more aggressive in selling their Japanese Cars AND were more than willing to provide the service required under the Warranty. One personal note in 1970 my father's Chevrolet Bel Air was hit and totaled by a Drunk Driver (the car was parker on the side of the Road with its handbrake on and in park and the driver moved it over 20 feet, the tail gate ended up under front seat but the front seat area was still intake). My father needed to get to work the next day and had no car to get to work (He worked in a suburb and lived in a suburb o public transportation was NOT an option). He called around and no dealer was willing to pick him up except the new Datsun (the named Nissan was using at that time) dealer. Thus my Father purchased his first Foreign Car.

My father liked that Datsun pickup. It rusted always within two years (Nissan used a dual base steel, with cheaper steel on the inside that tended to rust away), its gas gauged failed to work about the same time and my father was always replacing the clutch, but other then thee relatively minor problem the pickup ran well (He looked at the engine and remarked it looked like the Old Ford Model A Engine with an overcam installed for more power). Yes, the Japanese cars of the late 1960s and early 1970s had the same reputation for quality as the US cars of the time period. Japanese claim to better quality only started with the 1970s and improved throughout the 1970s while American cars retained the same level of quality (Basically playing catch-up starting in the late 1970s). I give you some examples, my Father traded in his 1970 Datsun for a 1975 Dodge Pickup, which ran well but Dodge had two manual transmissions for the truck, both interchangeable. The One that came with the truck was a piece of Junk that My Father had to replace twice in the two years he owned the truck, but then he found out INDEPENENDENT of the dealer of the better transmission that costs something like $100 more that lasted a lot longer. Why the two transmissions? Dodge wanted people to upgrade to an Automatic NOT another Standard, so it used that transmission in its half-ton trucks so that people would come to hate standards and upgrade to an automatic (It also was left over production capability from the 1950s before you really had the huge increase in engine size of the 1950s and 1960s). The better transmission is what Commercial Customer ordered and they would NOT tolerate junk but did not want to upgrade to an Automatic.

The lack of co-operation and information from the dealer (and his aging families, most of his kids were now teenagers not young kids) he ended up trading in that Dodge for a 1977 Chevrolet Suburban (By this time he had changed job sites and was taking Public Transportation more than driving, so his car was when he or his kids went out as a large group as oppose to commuting with the Suburban). That car lasted almost 8 years; no engine problems and he had to replace the transmission twice (After the last replacement he installed an transmission oil cooler which solved the problem of the transmissions going out). He had to get rid of it for it started to rust out and the engine after 200,000 miles had to be replaced.

Now in 1982 after I graduated from Collage I purchased a 1982 Chevrolet Pickup that I kept for almost 10 years. Unlike the very similar 1977 Suburban, it did NOT rust out do to the improvements in Rust protection adopted by the Big Three in the late 1970s, its Transmission NEVER gave out, ran like a top for its ten years of use (I had to get rid of it for it was costing me to much money to run and I did not really need a pickup, it is the only car I ever regretted selling for it was NOT done when I was done with it). I then drive a Renault Alliance for a few years till the undercarriage and transmission went out and than a 1990 Lumina, which ran like a top till it was totaled in an accident (Another case of a car being hit while parked). I had it almost five years; no rust no engine problem, no transmission problems (Through the front seat did collapse but I am rough on seats so that was not unexpected).

Since 1995 I have driven a Jeep Wrangler whose engine I did have to replace but other than that NO PROBLEMS, it still runs like a top. I had to replace the front seat for I broke it after five years of heavy use but as I said above I am rough on seats (I have had well made office chairs not survive as long as the seats in my cars).

My point here is American Cars have improved immensely since the 1970s; Quality is NOT the Problem with American cars (Through the impression of quality is a problem).

One last comment on Quality. What is Quality? W Edwards Deming is his book "Out of the Crisis" gives an example he heard from a Ma Bell Worker before Ma Bell was broken up (i.e. the days Ma Bell provided not only your service but the Phone). The worker commented on the number of times he had to go into a home to replace a phone for it had a barely visible scratch. On the other hand he had several cases where he went into people's home for another repair and saw the phone is two pieces. When he asked why they did not ask for a new phone the customers would say it was still giving good service. Deming used this story to point out Quality is relative and individualistic; one-person definition of Quality is NOT always other people's definition of Quality. In the case of the phones, the first set of customers having a perfect phone was their definition of Quality; to the second quality was having a good connection no matter the condition of the phone.

The same can be aid of Quality of Japanese and American Cars. Japanese Cars tend to have tighter fits and finish than American Cars, but then in Japan once a Car starts to show its age (after about 2-3 years) Japanese "Safety" law requires it to be replaced (The law was written by the Japanese Car Makers so that Japanese Car owners will buy a new car every 3-4 years no matter how good is their old car).

On the other hand American cars are still tested and design to operate on dirt roads (and this includes sub-Compact cars in addition to SUVs). Japanese Cars can often go on such roads but they really are NOT design to do so on a daily basis, while American cars ARE design to operate on such roads. For this reason American Cars have to be beefier than Japanese Cars to take such treatment (Which requires looser fit and finish than on Japanese Cars). This was a huge significance in the 1980s and early 1990s but as the Japanese moved into the SUV market the difference became less and less (and as American Designers increase their use of CAD, Computer Assisted Design, to make tighter fits while preserving dirt road usability.

Today, I just do NOT see any significant difference in quality between American and Japanese cars. The Japanese adoption of the SUV caused them to loosen their fit on those SUV to almost American Standards (While keeping a tighter fit on their regular Cars), at the same time American Car Makers have used CAD packages to really improve the fit and finish on their Cars (Both SUV and conventional Cars).

The problem with American Car makers is NOT the quality of their cars, but that people are just not buying ANY cars right now. Ford looks like it accepted this as a long-term situation given its places to downsize its plants and numbers of Workers; GM is trying to avoid bankruptcy (it made the biggest commitment to the SUV and thus has suffered the worse in the drop in sales). We will have to wait and see what happens to not only the Big Three (GM, Ford and Daimler-Chrysler) but also the Japanese Car Makers who are hurting almost as bad for their sales have dropped (And Toyota ha held its own through it Prius, and not through the sales of the Prius, which have been good, but that it brings people into their showrooms to look at the Prius and then they can also see the other Cars Toyota is selling, thus the comment last year from a GM official, that every penny Toyota spent on the Prius was worth it from an advertising/Marketing point of view and thus any profit from selling Priuses was just an extra bonus for Toyota).

[Ally McLesbian]

59. A few issues with this analysis

Transmissions - Japan and Korea have gone automatic too. Only Europe is primarily manual.

American car flaws appearing in US first - not necessarily. Some American cars are now foreign in origin. With my Ford Contour, Ford sold it in Europe first as the Mondeo, and had a year to fix problems before introducing the car stateside. Apparently it didn't happen. Ford has withdrawn the Contour from the North American market, and Mondeo sales are flat in Europe. And now, Ford has three foreign-designed cars in its lineup - Focus, Fusion (Mazda 6), and Five Hundred (Volvo S90). These cars had life overseas for years before appearing in America as Fords.

But I'll agree with the job insecurity and the SUV part. And the union workers building these cars are not to blame, it's the management.

[VegasWolf]

40. Bye bye, Miss American Pie. The new inexpensive Chinese cars are

rolling in and they will use the oil BushCo sells.

[Amonester]

42. Yep. That's the oil that was supposed to pay for Iraq's

Destruction/Reconstruction/
Destruction/Reconstruction/
Destruction/Reconstruction never ending cycle.
But hey! It seems it's been just another lie up there on their pile of BS.
And 30 to 40 percent R nuts, hail at the commander of the theifts.
Can't stop asking for more so they'll reap what they have sown.

http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182
Of course they're on their own, as in: "Do what I say, not what I do." -Chimperror

[GHOSTDANCER]

41. Take the advice of someone who has run several business into the ground.

[seasat]

44. If CAFE standards were raised, they would be in better shape.

However, the automakers opposed them because they made so much money on big SUVs.

I used to only buy cars from manufacturers based in the US. I thought I was being patriotic. My wife's car, a Ford Taurus, had the front end assembled in Canada. The motor is a german design. I do most of my own mechanics work and this care is a pain to work on because it was not designed well. Ford recently announced that they were getting about 100,000 parts from plants in China.

With globalization it is hard to view a company as strictly a US manufacturer. Ford and GM are worldwide conglomerates who happen to be incorporated in the US. We even have import laws that encourage manufacturing by conglomerates not based in the US on US soil. Some of the "foreign" cars now have more US parts and labor going into them than a Ford or GM product. Therefore, when I needed a truck, I bought a Toyota.

[sniffa]

45. i give you.. the homer

[PassingFair]

46. In other words: "*uck You, Blue State"

No way will he bail out a state industry when there is a dem Governor.

[hexola]

48. Anyone driving a Hyrdrogen Powered car yet? SOTU revisited...

Remember this one?

[hatrack]

62. Here's a laugh - back in 1997, at the Kyoto Conference . . . .

Daimler-Benz (as it was back then) boldly announced that they would have mass-production hydrogen fuel cell cars on the market by 2004.

And now, in January 2006 . . . :boring: . . . we're still waiting.

And as far as the Chimp is concerned, looks like the wheels came off the "Freedom Car". :eyes:

[high density]

63. Actually those of us with the great Bushco $20k/yr jobs

...can't afford to buy a new car even if we found one to be "appealing."

[MaineDem]

67. But it was different for the airlines...why???

I agree with the earlier statement; don't take business advice from this man!

[zann725]

70. "Appealing?" Cutting jobs and pensions in exchange for cars marketed

for the few able to afford cars in the near future. For between job and pension cuts, and rising cost of gas...new cars (or any cars at all) may become a rare possession indeed for future mid-America in the not-too-distant future.

[zann725]

71. "Appealing?" Cutting jobs and pensions in exchange for cars marketed

for the few able to afford cars in the near future. For between job and pension cuts, and rising cost of gas...new cars (or any cars at all) may become a rare possession indeed for future mid-America in the not-too-distant future.

[neuvocat]

72. In a way this is pretty funny.

First of all of course you see how Bush is totally screwing big business interests like this especially since they were his best supporters. There's the whole thing about self-sufficiency thing from Bush that shows you just exactly what a failure it is. And then for the topper there's that complete disconnect that IMO solidifies whatever doubts anyone had that he's hitting the sauce.

And the cocaine and the 8-ball and...

[truth2power]

74. truth2power to Bush..

We need a more appealing president.

[burrowowl]

78. Why do they need to sell cars?

The CEOs and very large stockholders have already made out like nadits. They've had time enoguh to put the money elsewhere. They have the money, why do they have to manufacture cars?

[depakid]

82. Hey, he finally said something halfway intelligent

but of course, the goverment's not going to let General Motors go bankrupt. It's too symbolic.

[jseankil]

83. Intelligent? Telling American workers "your on your own" is intelligent??

Why doens't the government provide GM assistance for providing great healthcare benefits instead of shipping all the money overseas?

[depakid]

85. GM's management is as responsible as anyone

for the decline. Do I feel bad for the workers- of course. But the way I saw events unfold, neither GM nor Ford learned much from the Japanese back in the 70's and 80's. Once gas prices fell- for a predictably short while, they went back to their wasteful old ways. Now they're suffering for it.

GM even stopped making hybrids a couple years back- at a time when Toyota was selling them as fast as they could get them off the assembly! Not a bright move.

And there's that little matter of financing....

[Rex]

84. GM & Ford to Bush: Stop fucking up the economy.

nt