Soldier on leave in N.Y. charged in shooting death

[SillyGoose]

Random shot killed young mother at window of apartment

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A U.S. soldier on leave from the Army was arrested Thursday for allegedly firing into the air and killing a young mother as she looked out her fifth floor apartment window, authorities said.

U.S. Army Pvt. Danny Carpio, 23, is accused of randomly firing a gun in Queens late Wednesday. One bullet struck 28-year-old Selina Akthel in the head, killing her instantly, said Kevin Ryan, the spokesman for Queens District Attorney Richard Brown.

Akthel's husband and two young children were in the apartment when she was killed.
...
He said Carpio, who had joined the Army about six months ago, was stationed in Fort Hood, Texas, and had been on leave in New York to pick up his wife and return with her to Texas.

Ryan said Carpio had been drinking and was standing outside on the sidewalk with friends when he allegedly fired a gun the air about three or four times. Akthel was "standing at her apartment window" when she was struck, Ryan said.

more at link http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/30/soldier.arrested/index.html

[musette_sf]

1. I read this story this morning in the NY Daily News

and having lived in New York City and Texas (the two residences of the suspect), I have a comment on guns and Texas. The NY Daily News article said that the soldier had fired his gun "into the air" to celebrate being home on leave. Things may have changed since I left, but firing guns into the air to celebrate something is not something New Yorkers do. But it IS something Texans do. On New Year's Eve, in the Houston inner city area, the gunfire at midnight is something to hear. If you live in a flat-roof building, you can go up to the roof and find shells in the morning.

So it sounds to me like this fella learned how to go shoot a gun up into the air for Happy Happy Joy Joy during his stint in Texas.

I'm not anti-gun by any means, but this is bullshit. The Wild West days should be over by now. A gun is a TOOL, not some kind of super duper firecracker.

[Xenotime]

2. That's all they do in Texas...

is shoot their guns. You can carry a gun anywhere and there's a gun store in every town to load up on more ammo. Have you seen the bullet holes in some of the road signs along the country roads?! No telling how many people have been injured or killed while they were "having a good time"

[Conservativesux]

16. Not just TX. They shoot it up out in the rural areas here in Norcal too.

Particulary up in the northern part of Redding, Chico, ect. were its very a conservative, religious-right region, with lots of nutballs who just love shooting thier guns at anything they can aim at.

I just heard on the radio that some gun-toting looneys just got sent to state prison for firing an assault weapon at a college radio station up near Chico State University.

Its a crazy counrty we have here with all these nutjobs running around packing heat and they are not all located in Texas. :(

[Cha]

21. They did that in Iraq, too..

The Iraqis..at weddings for sure and that's when all the bloodshed started with the soldiers firing on them and killing some people because they heard gun shots.

[Conservativesux]

26. We Americans are a trigger-happy bunch of Apes, methinks.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

46. It's ironic and disturbing

How many americans are apalled by it when it happens in iraq...but when it happens in the US people turn a blind eye. Our crime isn't bad, but terrorism needs its own war. It's like we're the "Our farts don't smell" country...that's our problem.

[patrice]

3. What do you think people who shoot guns into the air think happens

to the bullets? I don't understand it; even if the bullet doesn't hit someone, it has to come down somewhere; isn't that dangerous?

[musette_sf]

4. I think that at midnight on New Year's Eve

they aren't really thinking about it at all.

My husband made a tape of the Houston gunfire one NYE. We listen to it on NYE and thank G-d that we don't live there any more.

On edit: PulEEEZE, Texas ppl, don't come after me again just because I didn't like living there! (Last time I posted about having no love for Texas, I got some "we're glad you're gone!!!" replies. I know there are very nice DUers who live in Texas... but like winter squash and organ meat, it also is just not for me.)

[acmejack]

5. It wouldn't happen if you didn't avail yourself of every opportunity

to snark those us who do live here & like it. Admittedly, we are all gun loving dipshits, but still...Just one person's opinion.

[musette_sf]

6. If I availed myself of every opportunity

I'd be at a much higher post count than 1552. :hi:

[patrice]

10. Just curious here . . .

So are you saying people do it BECAUSE others complain?

[Paladin]

14. Make That TWO Persons' Opinions

Musette's non-stop slagging of Texas got tiresome a long, long time ago. Don't like the state? Fine. Now how about shutting the hell up about it? It's tiresome to those of us who have stayed behind to keep up the fight.

And, due respect for your likely satire, acmejack, I'm a fifth generation Texan, and I'm no "gun loving dipshit." I've lived all over the state in a variety of neighborhoods, and none of them ever had the kind of New Years' gunfire that some posters here are trying to portray as typical.....

[musette_sf]

20. thin skinned much?

:silly:

Next thing you know, you'll be telling me to stop saying all those nasty things about Tom DeLay.

[Paladin]

27. I'm Not The One...

...with a history of constantly shit-canning an entire state because Tom DeLay and George W. Bush happen to reside there.

For the record, I'm pretty sure that I've said at least as many negative things about DeLay as you have. That's because I'm one of the hundreds of thousands of loyal, lifelong Texas Democrats that you've consistently ignored in your prior posts. If I'm thin-skinned, I've come by it honestly, thanks to you and way too many other DU Texas-haters just like you.....

[musette_sf]

34. Okay, cowboy, simmer down, because

either you have me confused with someone else, or you are still carrying a grudge from two months ago.

This is where donating to DU, and being able to search the archives before making mean and untrue accusations to a fellow Democrat, would be of great help to you.

As of just before this post:

Total length of posting time on DU: One year and almost two months.
Total posts: 1563
Total number of posts that even reference the word "Texas": 25
Total number of posts that make any kind of even vaguely un-good mention of Texas, even if it is contextual (i.e., DeLay and gerrymandering; man gets 4 months for killing wife; etc.): 9
Total number of posts where any possible interpretation of "shit-canning" Texas could be inferred if one really, really, really squinted hard: 1

This last 1 post would be the one back in November of this year, where you got your shorts in a knot responding to me because I recommended that someone NOT move to Corpus Christi. This last 1 post would also be in the only other thread, besides this one, where you have EVER responded to me.

I lived in Texas for 13 years, so I'll post about it where it is salient. Now please tell me that you have me confused with someone else, because as you can see by the above stats, it is a complete fabrication in your imagination that I have "a history of constantly shit-canning an entire state".

You're an anti-gun guy. Why in the world are you so ticked off about my comments on a news story, about some kid from Queens who likely learned in Killeen that shooting a gun in the air to celebrate something is a good idea?

:shrug:

[Paladin]

41. Whatever You Say, Cowgirl

n/t

[musette_sf]

42. So no apology,

you'll just ride away? Gee, I thought DUers (and Dems in general) were big enough to admit when they are wrong.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

47. Good for you...O.o

I couldn't care less what state you have pride about when right now people are being murdered for no reason :) isn't there more constructive things we can argue about here at DU? People give me shit for supporting animals, but they flip if you insult texas. I guess spongebob was right...

[Paladin]

49. At Least We're Dealing With Present-Day Concerns....

...you with animal rights, me with the constant trashing of Texas. May I suggest that you reserve your "more constructive things we can argue about" criticism for the next Let's Re-fight The Civil War thread you come across here at DU; unfortunately, they're not too hard to find......

[panzerfaust]

11. How dare you defame TEXAS

Right now Texas (and Oklahoma) are in the midst of a drought, and near state-wide burn bans are in effect.

Wildfires which destroyed about 200 homes and killed four people have just been brought under control. Given no recent thunder/lightening storms these are thought to have been started by people ignoring the burn ban and burning trash, ignoring the burn ban and exploding firecrackers, and ignoring common sense when tossing their cigarette butts.

In the county where I live, in spite of the county-wide burn ban on outside fires and firecrackers, fireworks stands are still open and selling thousands of fireworks everyday.

Many of these stands are being operated by volunteer fire departments as fund raisers.

How can you not like a state like this!

[musette_sf]

19. I remember this being the official sign in TX and LA for

"You Have Entered A Jurisdiction Where New Year's Eve "Supplies" Are Legal":

[Conservativesux]

25. Those Black Cat firecrakers have been around forever, havn't they?

At least they dont shoot a projectile like a gun.

[Cha]

22. What's wrong with

"winter squash"? :)

[musette_sf]

23. I just can't stand it.

The way it tastes, the texture. I have tried to love the butternut, it is such a beautiful squash to look at, but I just can't do it. :puke:

[Cha]

24. I'm going to have some

tomorrow for New Year's Eve! :toast:

[0007]

45. I love winter squash!

[Betsy Ross]

8. The laws of physics say

that the velocity of the bullet when it returns to the height from which it was fired will be the same as the velocity at which it left the gun less a faction for friction. So yes, falling bullets can be extremely dangerous.

[qazplm]

12. thats not true

the velocity at which it comes out of the gun has nothing to do with the velocity it comes back down with.

The velocity it leaves the gun with is dependent solely on the force of the propellant/explosion behind it, and the main force slowing it down is not friction but the gravity of the Earth. At the apex it will have a momentary velocity of zero before gravity starts accelerating it at a constant rate of 9.8 m/s squared.

Whatever velocity it attains coming down will depend upon how much it weighs and how high up it was when it starts coming down.

It's still a stupid thing to do, not so much for it hitting someone on the way down, but as happened here, for it hitting someone on the way up.

edit: I will edit this to say the first sentence of mine isnt fully accurate because obviously how high it goes up before it comes down depends upon the velocity coming out of the gun, but the point is those two velocities dont have to be anywhere near each other.

[manic expression]

15. Yes it is

you seem to forget that the speed at which the bullet travels will bring it up to a higher level than a slower-moving bullet, so it will have more time to be pulled down to Earth and accelerate, therefore gaining its original speed (minus some for air resistance).

Think of it this way:

When something is shot up, gravity is still pulling down on it, so it will slow down when it reaches zero. Gravity still pulls on it, so it has an equal time to fall and speed up.

The two velocities are very much near each other. Air resistance does make the decent a bit slower, but it is still very connected to initial velocity and it is still extremely dangerous.

[slackmaster]

28. The air resistance is a much bigger factor than you have accounted for

A bullet fired into the air loses MOST of its kinetic energy to air friction.

When it falls to the ground, it's going only a small fraction of its initial velocity. I've found a few handgun bullets sitting on the roof of my house. One penetrated partly into an asphalt shingle. I have a .38 caliber hole in my aluminum awning from a falling bullet.

Try a simple Web search on this topic before you go off half-cocked. ;-) This subject gets discussed extensively every year at this time and around the 4th of July.

If you are into newsgroups, search rec.guns for the topic "I shot a bullet in the air".

[manic expression]

32. Of course

but air resistance does not begin to remove the danger caused by a falling bullet. Actually, my physics teacher specifically pointed out the danger to my class. Should I reach her and tell her to do some research?

[slackmaster]

35. Air resistance removes MOST of the danger of a falling bullet

Actually, my physics teacher specifically pointed out the danger to my class. Should I reach her and tell her to do some research?

Yes, it sounds like ballistics isn't your teacher's strong point. Ask her to show the calculation to estimate the terminal velocity of a falling bullet, since that is the speed at which it will be travelling when it hits the ground regardless of how fast it was going when it left the muzzle of the weapon. A bullet dropped from an airplane would behave the same way - It would accelerate until upward force due to air resistance becomes equal to the downward pull of gravity. After that, it would actually slow down a bit as the air gets denser.

Falling Bullets

I am often asked questions about falling bullets; i.e., “How dangerous can a falling bullet be?” The model I use to answer any falling bullet question is as follows: Will a bullet, such as a 5.56 x 45mm (.223 Remington), if fired at a very high angle (straight up), return to Earth with enough velocity and striking energy to inflict a significant wound?

The military standard for disabling energy, or the amount of energy necessary to produce a casualty, is 58 ft lbs, at a striking velocity of 400 fps. Bullets returning from being fired upward, whether they start their return trip from 2,000 feet, 10,000 feet, or ten miles, will all come back to Earth with the same speed (terminal velocity). Terminal velocity depends on the weight of the bullet and, to a certain extent, on its shape. A 55-grain 5.56 x 45mm bullet leaves the muzzle at roughly 3200 fps and, if fired straight up, will slow down until it finally stops about 9,000 feet above the Earth; then it starts to fall. If it falls point down (not likely) it will return to Earth with a striking velocity of approximately 290 fps, and a striking energy of nine foot pounds or less. If it fell any other way than point down, its fall would be slower and its striking energy less.

The U.S. Army has conducted exhaustive experiments on the subject of falling bullets and has concluded that falling bullets cannot be relied upon to produce dangerous wounds. Guns are usually fired at only moderate elevation – 30º would be considered a high angle by most people. The bullet will then strike with some speed with which it was fired, with a much higher velocity than that of merely a falling bullet. Falling bullets do not kill, only those fired at moderate degrees of elevation will produce significant wounds.

Source: http://www.policeandsecuritynews.com/septoct02/Ammo.htm

[manic expression]

37. So what you're saying

is that it's OK for people to fire bullets, as long as they do it over a certain angle? I don't think people who are firing off bullets into the sky make calculations on the degree of the projectile. We weren't specifying something fired at 90 degrees or 30 degress, simply the subject of bullets that are shot upwards.

I get your point about terminal velocity, but we aren't using a fixed model of 90 degree firing angle. The point is that because it is very much a random thing, a bullet is bound to be a danger.

[slackmaster]

38. ROTFLMAO!!!

So what you're saying... ...is that it's OK for people to fire bullets, as long as they do it over a certain angle?

Are you familiar with the concept of "straw man", a logical fallacy?

:dunce:

In case you still don't get it:

Of course it's not OK for people to fire bullets into the air. That's obviously stupid, irresponsible, and dangerous.

[manic expression]

39. I think we understand each other

I was saying that firing bullets into the air is stupid, irresponsible and dangerous. I was also saying that it was dangerous because of what you pointed out.

I wasn't making an argument on bullets specifically fired at a 90 degree angle, just at the act in itself.

[Chemical Bill]

17. Um, that's in a frictionless system (vacum)...

but your point that the bullet is dangerous is still valid.

Bill

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. Nope.

Oddly enough...it's perfectly safe.

[slackmaster]

29. Let's not go too far the other way

People HAVE been injured by falling bullets.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. :sarcasm:

Whoops!

[Javaman]

7. That's nothing. Try living in L.A. is you want to hear NYE gunfire...

I lived in north hollywood (not the good part). The guy out my back window was firing a shot gun and his buddy was firing an AK(this was back in 1993). Gun fire and muzzle flashes light up the night in my neighborhood. There was a constant rumble of gun fire and fireworks. Never having lived, been in or fought in a battle and only knowing what I know from audio recordings of war, it was terrifying similar. The next morning, the front of my apt building was shot up and bullet casings everywhere. Thankfully no one in my apt complex was hurt, but I moved out a month later.

[slackmaster]

30. In San Diego it's the Linda Vista neighborhood

We still have a lot of Indochinese "boat people" families who are exceptionally well armed with illegally imported AKs and other automatic weapnos. It can be quite exciting around Chinese New Year as well as Western holidays.

[panzerfaust]

9. Had he only waited a few months ...

... likely he would have been where he could have shot all the civilians he wanted & been praised as a hero.

One does have to wonder if this recent recruit was one who would have been rejected in the not-so-distant past when even Army standards were higher?

[CAcyclist]

13. Now if he was driving recklessly

and mowed her down in the crosswalk, he'd be as free as a bird, 'cause it "was an accident".

I absolutely applaud the authorities for arresting him; it just pisses me off that driving "accidents" aren't held to the same standards as reckless discharge of a gun. The victim is just as dead.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Here the behavior is reckless on its face

Whether a driver was being "reckless" is, I suspect, a bit more difficult to determine.

[classysassy]

36. The NRA

I am sure those sick,greedy mothers at the headquarter of the NRA will come to the defense of the shooter.God be with the family of the victim and many nightmares to the gun lovers of this nation.

[benEzra]

43. Most gun owners share the view that shooting up in the air is stupid

I am sure those sick,greedy mothers at the headquarter of the NRA will come to the defense of the shooter.God be with the family of the victim and many nightmares to the gun lovers of this nation.

Most gun owners, including me, share the view that shooting up in the air is stupid and unsafe. (That also applies to "warning shots" that you always see in the movies, where some idiot fires a gun straight up as a threat. Good thing Hollywood uses blanks, because that's terminally stupid in real life.)

FWIW, shooting in the air is a violation of one of the four fundamental rules of gun safety, i.e. always be sure of your target and backstop.

Besides, this guy was in Queens, where it's practically impossible to legally own a gun unless you are wealthy and/or politically connected. And instead of shooting in the "air", he shot at a woman's window. You won't get any sympathy for the shooter from any gun owners, including me...here's hoping they throw the book at him...

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bilgewaterbill]

44. The idiot who lives behind me was firing his gun into the air at midnite.

When I confronted him and told him to knock it off, those bullets come down, his reply was, "No they don't!"

[SomewhereOutThere424]

48. And in other news

Once this topic is pushed off the board, many people will resume battling for gun ownership rights to allow mentally incompetant people have ak-47s. Lovely...isn't it?

[SKKY]

50. Tragic. Just Tragic. This story makes me sick to my stomach...