(Marine) Corps pays $100K for retooled jeep (Unarmored-You buy kit $7500)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-12-28-corps-jeep_x.htm



The Marine Corps is paying $100,000 apiece for a revamped Vietnam-era jeep as part of its program to outfit the hybrid airplane-helicopter V-22 Osprey, Pentagon records show.

That's seven times what a deluxe commercial version of the vehicle costs. It's also three times what U.S. Export-Import Bank records show the Dominican Republic paid four years ago for a military version of the vehicle, called the Growler, a recycled version of the M151 jeep.

The Marines and the contractor, General Dynamics, say the vehicle has been thoroughly revised with modern automotive parts and adapted to fit on the V-22.

"Yes, it did start off with jeep technology, and it does look like a jeep in a lot of ways," says John Garner, the Marines project manager. But he says it's now "state of the art."


Vehicle that American Growler sold to the Dominican Republic's military for $33,000.


The UV100DB, which is the same vehicle you can buy from American Growler in a kit and put together yourself for about $7,500.

[benburch]

1. You know how this works, right?

Part of that money is likely earmarked for a "black" program and they legitimize the expense with the $100K jeep.

[hack89]

4. Good point.

The Navy DSRV rescue mini subs is a good example - they were criticized for being overpriced while in fact the program was used to launder money for the Glomar Explorer.

[mainer]

9. Haha -- it's right out of the movie "Independence Day"

"You don't think they REALLY paid $10,000 for a toilet seat, do you?"

[benburch]

11. EXACTLY...

There is of course some overspending, and the controls are lax as proven by Haliburton, but most often these overpayments are, I believe, part of the "black budget".

[americanstranger]

14. Exactly.

I went looking and found what is probably what they're really paying:

When in full production, each strike vehicle will cost about $50,000, compared to $70,000 to $130,000 for a brand-new Humvee, depending on options.

More here: http://tinyurl.com/9a3ol

-as

[saigon68]

2. Too Bad there are hungry children in amerika

And seniors without drugs

[0007]

23. junior sez "fuck em, feed em cheese"

[Nordmadr]

3. Got a $500 hammer? N/T

[ddeclue]

18. No just an 800 dollar lug wrench... :)

[cal04]

5. Thank you for posting this here. Once again they are not protecting

our troops
Lack of armor is cited. "In a time of war, we should not be wasting money on a junker which will not protect our troops," Brian says. Under current military safety rules, the Growler would be barred from service in Iraq except as a utility vehicle that doesn't leave the security of a base.

:grr:

[emc]

6. kick backs

wonder how much the kick backs to the republican party are-----wish I could get a contract like that -----

I would be willing to buy new jeeps at 25 thousand and trade them to the marines for 100 thousand. This way they would
get jeeps with air conditioning and radios--------would even install onstar for free------

[MrPrax]

8. LOL...

"would even install onstar for free"

Have you heard the radio ads for OnStar where it's claimed that these are 'actual' OnStar conversations?

"OnStar...MrPrax...HOW may I help you?"
"There's some guys shooting at us...help?"
"It is recommended in the manual that seek service stateside, sir"
"um...OK"
"You should see a route map appear marking all rest stops, service stations, motels provided by our partners along the way...thanks for calling OnStar!"

[Ezlivin]

7. A retooled jeep for an aircraft that will never see combat

The V-22 is a boondoggle. It is an expensive answer to a question that is no longer being asked. Eventually the program will find a "civilian" use and Bell can congratulate itself on getting the American taxpayer to fund all of its research efforts.

The Osprey is beset with so many problems that it might well remain a research project for years to come.

[happyslug]

10. More on the "Growler" Jeep.

http://washdateline.mgnetwork.com/index.cfm?SiteID=wsh&PackageID=46&fuseaction=article.main&ArticleID=6891&GroupID=214
http://www.angelfire.com/biz7/troopgear/151s.html

One Comment intrigued me, it mentioned a "Frame". The M151 Series of Army Jeeps were Unibody construction i.e. Frame and Body were one and the same.

The M151 series had two big flaw, the first was the Front Wheels. Do to the combination of Unibody Construction and independent front suspension, the Wheels of a M151 had habit of toeing inward if off the ground (as what happens in rough rock climbing in off-roading). When the wheel would go back onto the ground, the wheel would come down on the side of the wheel causing it to break. Once you lost the front wheel you lost control of the Jeep and caused it to rollover.

Another problem (Related to the above but a separate problem) is that on hard turns at speed the Jeep would roll over even with all four tires on the road again leading to a lost of control.

Do to these problems the M151 were declared unsafe for highway use by the Department of Transportation. Now some of the older ones (i.e. pre-1967) did make it into the Civilian marketplace (and you can find some on line for sale) but since about 1967 the M151 when sold at surplus were sold with the uniframe body CUT IN HALF to make it un-drivable. The more i Read about the Growler is that it looks like a M151 but with a body and frame construction instead of the anybody of the M151. It also appears (from the pictures which are not that clear) that the front axis was modified to prevent the wheels from toeing inward.

The few times I drove a M151 it was a fun vehicle to drive (unlike the 2 1/2 ton trucks I normally drove in the National Guard) but I made sure I never made fast hard turns while driving it. As a utility Vehicle I liked it better than the Humvee, carried less but if I wanted to haul anything that what 2 1/2 tons trucks were for (and did better than the Humvee). As to Armor, neither the Jeep, Humvee or 2 1/2 ton trucks were designed to be used as ARMORED VEHICLES. If you want armor go to the M113 (Which, I like many other people have said we should be using in Iraq instead of "armored" Humvee). The Jeep, Humvee or 2 1/2 ton trucks are capable of carrying sufficient armor to protect their crew AND STILL DO WHAT EACH WAS DESIGN TO DO, HAUL MEN AND SUPPLIES TO THE COMBAT AREA). The M113 DOES have the required Armor AND WAS DESIGNED TO CARRY THAT ARMOR. Thus the fact that the Growler is unarmored is unimportant, if you need armor you go for a Tank, a Armored Personnel Carrier (or APC, as in the M113) OR something like a M2 Bradley (or other Combat fighting Vehicle like the new Styker Vehicle or the Russian BMPs).

Now I think the price of $100,000 is high for something using old M151 parts but that is a different story and if CUSTOM MADE FOR THE OSPREY, the price sounds about right given the low volume to be produced (The More of a model to make the lower the per-unit costs, very few of these Vehicles will be produced thus high costs unlike the thousands of Humvees and M151s the Army purchased over the years).

[Angry Girl]

12. Tax dollars that could keep people fed and warm this winter... grrr n/t

[Clara T]

13. Marine jeep contract under fire ($100,000 Jeep)

Marine jeep contract under fire
Newspaper says the Corps is harshly criticized for new vehicles that cost $100K each.
December 29, 2005: 8:45 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - The Marine Corps is paying $100,000 apiece for a revamped military jeep that some critics call a rip-off of taxpayers, according to a news report Thursday.

The Marines budgeted to buy more than 400 vehicles, called Growlers, under a contract that could total $296 million including ammunition, USA Today said, citing Pentagon records.

Built by Ocala, Fla.-based American Growler, the Growler is made partly from salvaged M151 jeep parts and is available in several versions.

A commercial version of the jeep costs just $7,500.

The Marines and the contractor, General Dynamics, said the vehicle has been thoroughly revised with modern automotive parts and adapted to fit on the hybrid airplane-helicopter V-22 Osprey, according to the paper.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/29/news/military_jeep/

My question is who are the "others" who might suggest this price is not a rip-off?

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. $100,000 for a car with no doors?

WTF is going on in the Pentagon?

[ddeclue]

16. Optional extras include:

Deluxe coffee maker $7500.00 operates off of 120/240/28/24/12V power and up to 22G's of acceleration.
Cigarette lighter $600.00
.....

everybody come up with something..

[northofdenali]

17. First aid kit, $14,500.

Includes band-aids x(. Iodine optional at $45.00 per ounce.:mad:

[oblivious]

20. Aircon -- If you have to ask you can't afford it.

[rman]

19. can you say "War is a racket"?

www.warisaracket.com
by Smedley Darlington Butler, Major General - United States Marine Corps (Retired)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Darlington_Butler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[Miss Chybil]

21. Support the Troops and America!

Rip them off!

Selfish, treasonous bastards. They're all selling us up the river.

[sopmod]

22. Ignorance of custom 4x4 vehicle costs(be informed before you post)

I would normally agree about government overspending but the truth is that any "custom 4x4" can cost TENS OF THOUSANDS more than a visually identical vehicle.This boggles those ignorant of custom vehicles but from personal experience I can tell you that there are old,ugly,rundown looking Jeeps and Landcruisers driving beside you everyday that can cost as much as a Porsche or even a Ferrari.

Here's my own Jeep for example.

1997 Jeep Wrangler I originally purchased for $9,500

Dana 60 Axle Conversion $4000
HySteer Steering System $2400
NP205 Transfer Case $2000
ARB Air Differential Lockers $1600
ARB Compressor $400
Hydraulic Steering Booster $800
Dana 60 Rear Axle $1600
Rubicon Express Lift kit $2000
Braided Stainless Brake Lines $300
ARB Winch Bumper $800
Mile Marker Winch $1800
ConFerr Skid Plates $1400
Fuel-can/Spare Tire Rack $500
Bead Lock 15x12.5 wheels $2000
Diamond Plate Body kit $300
Interco Super Swamper Tires $1100
Alinco HAM radio $1200
PIAA Halogen Lights $300
Hi Lift Jack Kit $200

Total(not including labor) $34,200

I did most of the installation and labor so you could probably add another $10,000 to the pricetag of my little Jeep if you had to pay for a mechanic to install all of these parts so that puts the total for my little "Bushworthy Daily Driver" at almost half of what "Uncle Sugar" wants to blow on some Jeeps and I am sure they are a little more tricked out than mine if they are going to be airlifted
into a combat zone but hopefully some of your get the idea.



The $100,000 Jeeps are fine but it's the $96,000,000 V-22 that has yet to have a trouble free flight that really troubles me!!!!!

Who the hell thinks we need a $96,000,000 replacement for a $5,000,000 helicopter?