US-Mexico border wall would be 'disgraceful': Fox (Reuters)

[Up2Late]

(There are so many better answers than this, * doesn't really want to stop illegal workers)

US-Mexico border wall would be 'disgraceful': Fox

Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:50 PM ET

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced as "disgraceful and shameful" on Wednesday a proposal to build a high-tech wall on the U.S.-Mexico border to stop illegal immigrants.

Concerned about the huge numbers of illegal immigrants streaming across the border and worried it could be an entry point for terrorists, a U.S. lawmaker has proposed building two parallel steel and wire fences running from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Coast. But Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff has said a wall running the length of a border would cost too much.

Mexico has expressed indignation at the idea. Fox, speaking in Tamaulipas state across the border from Texas, said such extreme security measures would violate immigrants' rights.

"The disgraceful and shameful construction of walls, the increasing enforcement of security systems and increasing violation of human rights and labor rights will not protect the economy of the United States," he said. He again called for the easing of U.S. immigration laws to benefit millions of undocumented Mexican fruit pickers, waiters and janitors working north of the border, a complex bilateral issue that has at times strained relations with Washington.

<http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=10593017&src=rss/topNews>
(more at link above)

[Codeine]

1. Jeez.

I'm not big on the wall idea either, but why is Fox such a dick about immigration? He acts as though doing anything to protect our border is a direct affront to Mexico.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. There is such a low tech solution

that will NOT violate their rights (what fox is worrred abuot is the Berlin Wall Syndrome quite frankly)...

Enforce the damn law... FINE every corporation that hires Ilegals to the extent called by the law. After you do that enough times, nobody will hire them... and there will be no market

Don't expect this solution to be proposed by any GOP congressman any time soon, The GOP actually loves Cheap Labor and the wall is just a distraction from the real issues

[wtmusic]

8. Exactly. All posturing.

Republican congressman will wring their hands but inevitably do nothing.

[Codeine]

10. Exactly right.

The problem isn't with folks looking for work, it's the employers exploiting them and destroying the ability for blue-collar Americans to get a fair wage.

[Leilani]

11. There is a bill in the House tomorrow on immigration

and one of its provisions is to raise fines on businesses that hire illegals, & more money to hire people for enforcement.

Will the Dems support this bill?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Even if they did, wanna bet it will not pass

it is a GOP posture to lower salaries in the US by any means possble, Cheap Labor is NOT a democratic idea, but a corporatist one.

[Up2Late]

4. I think it's all a big act, I figure him and Bush have some sort of deal,

He won't do anything to fix the Mexican poverty thing, and Bush won't prosecute the employers.

Mexico supplies almost as much Crude Oil to the U.S. as Saudi Arabia and Venezuela do, usually our forth largest Oil suppler.

<http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_neti_a_EP00_IMN_mbblpd_m.htm>

[sonofliberty]

6. all of latin america belives Fox is placed there by shrub N/T

[julianer]

9. The wall would 'protect the border'

from labour but capital can cross without hindrance. There's the real problem.

[lovuian]

3. I find it amazing how ilegal aliens have rights in America???

they should be staying in Mexico

Fox's protest can only mean he will probably help to destroy the fence...

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. They have the same rights YOU HAVE in mexico

they are covered under International Human Rights conventions that WE have signed

here is a piece of trivia for you... if you were injured in Mexico... and I picked you up and you were ahem forcibly detained to save your life... there are specific forms I have to fill up to be filed both with my home agency, the Foreign Office and the Consulate... same goes for Mexican citizens here, whether they entered the country legally or not.

Moreover, under the US Constitution they have the same rights you do, except voting, or if they are not green card holders, having to register for the draft. A little research will reveal this... and why about the US Constitution and Bill of Rights? The Founding Fathers were convinced this was already a nation of immigrants so they were actually ahead of the power curve in that respect. In Mexico you have the same basic human rights Mexican Citizens have... it is a kind of a quid pro quo.

Oh and employment or rather the ability to prove residency comes from the rarely enforced 1986 immigration law, yes you have to fill your I-97 form, but I have yet to see many employers fined when they ahem, skirt the law... in fact here is a trick some companies have used, the day before pay day they turned their illegals to the INS... avoiding payment and they rarely face the music.

Having volunteered as a medic on a border town it is fascinating all the things I learned about that... and now living in a border town in the US... I get to hear the cops speak of these same silly pieces of paperwork they have to file... actually it is the same silly form... just in English, and that goes for ANY foreign National.

[Macman44]

23. An I-97

is a US citizenship card that is no longer issued. If you are going to talk about immigration forms, better get your facts straight.

I lived and worked for over eight years on the southern border before I got fed up with the Mexicans sense of how the US owes them everything. Plus I hate the chaos that is the southern border.

[lovuian]

24. Heres what happened to my friends on a Cruise in Mexico

They got off the boat (first mistake) and decided to rent motorbikes
they had a terrible collision because terrible drivers

the motorbikes were damaged and they had to pay an exorbitant amount of money for them... plus a friend went to the hospital who was told that the bill was 10,000 dollars and that they had to be paid in full in cash or they would be sent to jail for failure to pay...

No if a Mexico ilegal immigrant crosses the border and they can't pay well they are billed probably at a false address in Mexico and never have to pay it... we let them leave without payment and we don't say they have to go to jail if they don't pay...

Fox has nothing to berate America about but he needs to make his country better for his citizens so they don't look for a better place to live here...

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Really?

first clue

They were guilty because Mexico has a Napoleonic Code... this means you are guilty and have to prove your innocence to the state, when I drive down there I carry legal insurance as well, which gets me a lawyer if I should crash.

Second clue, if they were taken to a private hospital I can believe that story. But a public hospital, not really... now private hospitals, why do you think I have made sure my health insurance covers me abroad? That is the reason.

Now as a Red Cross Volunteer I can cite far more examples than yours of American Citizens who were taken care off... and when they were stable enough either transported by either US based BLS rigs, (who charged on average 7,000 for the call) or us, who charged them nothing... it truly depended on whether we had an abulance available and INS felt nice enough to let us go by the border and transport to a San Diego Hospital. Yes HUGE freaking free clue, unlke the American Red Cross the Mexican Red Cross mans both basic and advanced life suport anbulances and runs Emergency units and trauma units across the country.

I once sat down and actually tried to get Blue Shield to cover the cost for a US Citizen who carried Blue Shield, for his stay in ICU... we were going truly for costs, truly, and it was a bargain at 5,000 for two weeks of ICU... Ambulance ride, trauam care and surgical suite... (Given any bed in the US in ICU runs yuo 1500 a day before you add equipment and presonnel... you do the math) Blue Shield refused since we were NOT an aproved facilty. Oh and we did not charge teh family... they gave us a donation of 100 dollars, which was a lot for them at that moment... by the way. I remember that so vividly and one reason why I DROPPED blue shield\ blue Cross

It is easy to throw stones, when you really have no clue what you are talking about... and I guess them darkies south of the border really hate Muricans...

Are all contacts good? No, and have Mexicans made mistake sure... care me to tell you the stories of patient dumping by the border patrol? I have some doozies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. I-97 is the form you and I fill

every time we apply for a job. This form codified two forms of ID proving we have a right to work in the US... forms that are acceptable, SS Card, US Passport, Greencard, and drivers or state ID card.

Sorry used to ask for these items and whenever I have applied for a job in the US, I get asked for that

[sandnsea]

13. Illegals are fighting in Iraq

Some have died. Did you know that?

[ingac70]

14. And? So?

Am I suppose to be impressed that they are following orders from the *?

Screw them. Serving in Iraq has nothing to do with me or anything related to the benefit of the US..

[Toucano]

15. And Europeans should have stayed in Europe

and left the Americas alone.

:rofl:

[sonofliberty]

5. If they would stop trying to fix what isn't broke and get on with fixing

what is broke it would be nice for a change. Our present state of affairs dictates that we employ all of the aliens we can get because there are jobs all these poor out of work americans just won't do........... please wake the hell up If i had to pick your produce you could not afford to buy it...... the minute men we have "watching" our borders are little different from the brown shirts of not so long ago in the last right wing government in power

[sandnsea]

12. Our own wall, how delightful

They're implementing all the fixtures of a communist society that they spent trillions of dollars fighting, not to mention the theocracy that we're currently spending billions fighting. Don't any of these goobers ask themselves how in the hell WE are going to get OUT???

[K8-EEE]

16. Hey Senor FOX! How Bout You Stop Exploiting 95% Of Mexicans

And get some wage reform and worker protection programs going. That would work better than any wall, not that Fox and Bush don't have the exact same utter disregard for the poor. Give the GOP a couple more terms and it will "solve" the immigration program, because the workers here will be no better off than in Mexico.

[Javaman]

17. "mr. pResident*, tear down this wall".

Fox missed a golden opportunity.

[Up2Late]

21. That would be sweet!

Chavez or some future Mexican Leader should do that.

[Loonman]

18. If you ran your country properly, Mr. Fox

We would not need a wall.

[Kralizec]

20. What a statement!

Who's running their country wrong, or right, for that matter? I'd say that neither the U.S. nor Mexico are.

edit: punctuation

[0007]

25. Big business that doesn't want to pay minimum wage or have a

Farm Workers Union.

[Darranar]

27. If we ran our country properly

there would be no NAFTA and probably no "President Fox."

[SpiralHawk]

22. Something there is that doesn't love a wall

MENDING WALL
Robert Frost

Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'.
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows?
But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down.' I could say 'Elves' to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."

SEARCH | POETRY HOME | ENGLISH 88 READING

[Bucky]

26. It's an affront to Mexico's dignity. It's bad policy, too, but pride sells

I'm building a wall to keep you out. How do you feel? Pretty shitty I'll bet. Oh, and we're keeping Rachael Welch while we're at it.

[donheld]

28. An Iron Curtain for the USA how fun

:sarcasm: This is an insane idea.

[rhett o rick]

31. I think there is a general misunderstanding re. the "WALL"

It's purpose will be to keep people IN. After a couple of more years of Republican Reign, people will be trying to flee the Country.