Bush Asked to Protect Chaplains' Rights

[deminks]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051215/ap_on_go_pr_wh/air_force_chaplains_1

ASHINGTON - House lawmakers concerned that proposed military guidelines are restricting some Christian chaplains' abilities to pray said Wednesday they will deliver a 6-inch-thick petition to President Bush this week asking him to intervene.

The Pentagon is finalizing guidelines to help determine what is appropriate religious expression, following an internal investigation that found examples of religious insensitivity at the Air Force Academy near Colorado Springs, Col.

Conservative lawmakers and others said they fear the guidelines, which urge sensitivity to religious diversity, go too far.

They said some Christian chaplains throughout the military have complained their right to pray by specifically mentioning Jesus Christ is at risk. The lawmakers want Bush to issue an executive order protecting chaplains' right to pray according to their faith.

Oh, my god. Reminds me a little of the plea for the Schaivo executive order.

[knight_of_the_star]

1. Yeah sure

Protect Chaplain's Rights, they really mean defend fundie chaplains right to shove religion down people's throats, what a load of crock :puke:

[0007]

2. Paging Jerry Boykins!

[VegasWolf]

3. Deliever a six inch petition to Bush. Why that's twice as big as Bush's ..

:puke:

[AndyTiedye]

4. What About the Rights of Our Soldiers?

They are not all Christian soldiers, as much as some people might wish that were so, and as much as some people would like to make them convert.

[stillcool]

5. What ...no more investigating...

the wide world of sports...I think they just take off the cuff actions to make it look like they're doing something other than looting.

[Thom Little]

Lawmakers want Bush to intervene on military chaplain guidelines

House lawmakers concerned that proposed military guidelines will restrict chaplains' ability to pray to Jesus Christ opened a news conference with a prayer Wednesday and promised to deliver a 6-inch-thick petition to President Bush asking him to intervene.

The Pentagon is finalizing guidelines on appropriate religious expression after an internal investigation found instances of religious insensitivity at the Air Force Academy near Colorado Springs, Colo.

But conservative lawmakers and others said they fear the guidelines, which urge sensitivity to religious diversity, go too far. They said some Christian chaplains throughout the military have complained their right to pray by specifically mentioning Jesus Christ is at risk. The lawmakers want Bush to issue an executive order protecting chaplains' right to pray according to their faith.

"I truly believe the president of the United States - if he understands the realities of this situation - will respond in a decisive manner," said Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz.



http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WST_AIR_FORCE_CHAPLAINS_COOL-?SITE=VARIT&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-12-14-19-06-34

[GatoLover]

6. I have mixed feelings about this

I am Jewish and I hate listening to Christian prayers invoking Jesus, especially when they come from government chaplains. On the other hand, I believe in the free exercise of religion.

[Erika]

8. Religion does not belong in government

Because of the very reasons you noted. In this country we are free to believe or not to believe. We should not promote one religious belief as the "state" belief.

[GatoLover]

9. That's the establishment clause of the First Amendment

But there's also the free exercise clause. Just because I'm offended doesn't negate somebody else's right to pray as he or she sees fit. You seem to be objecting to the very existance of government chaplains.

[Erika]

11. Who is stopping anyone from praying?

Do they need a chaplain to do so?

[GatoLover]

15. The issue seems to be

whether or not it's OK for a chaplain to invoke Jesus in a prayer.

[Erika]

7. We saw it coming when W said Christ was his greatest philosopher

So much for negating the spirituality of American atheists, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, and the rest.

[GatoLover]

10. I thought that W's answer was pretty foolish

But I certainly didn't feel that it in any way negated my spirtuality as a Jew.

[Erika]

12. And?

[GatoLover]

14. And I didn't think he negated my spirtuality

OK?

[radfringe]

13. what's next?

establishment of a national religion? tax credits for church-goers? Legislation requiring church attendance and burning at the stake for those who refuse? or how about bush* pulling a Henry-the-8th and declaring himself the head of the church?

seems kinda funny - the neo-cons (et al) whine about judges playing loose with the constitution (i.e. activist judges) and say they should strickly interpret the constitution - well - the constitution is pretty clear on separation of church and state, but the neo-cons are willing to "bend" things their way...

[GatoLover]

19. Actually we DO have tax credits for church goers

Contributions to religious institutions are tax deductible. As for "separation of church and state," that phrase appears nowhere in the constitution. The First Amendment does say:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

The establishment clause is very important, but so is the free exercise clause.

[kineneb]

16. hairy fishnuts, hairy fishnuts

thus spake Opus, the penguin.

And while they have the prayer at our Rotary meeting, I shove my hands in my pockets and silently chant "om ma padme hum." Look, hosers, not all of us belive in the divinity of Jesus. Bodhisattva Jesus, perhaps. Poor babies, they just discovered that not all the world follows their belief system.

[orleans]

17. "if he understands the realities of this situation"

like he claimed to understand about those WMD in iraq?

great. we're doomed. again.

[Hekate]

18. Continuing the manufactured controversy over persecution of Christians

Chaplains of all creeds have a place in the military, because (as the ancient saying goes) there are no atheists in the foxhole. I would not want to deny anyone the solace that religion can bring.

Historically (or so I was led to believe by the Father Mulcaheys of filmdom, and some written memoirs) chaplains bestowed comfort and advice on all without being heavy-handed in the missionary department. They performed religious services according to their own denomination and non-denominational ones as well. If someone came to them earnestly seeking to convert or be baptized or the like, all well and good, but they weren't supposed to proselytize and give hell-fire sermons threatening damnation to unbelievers.

What we have going on right now is one more glorious battle in the culture wars launched by the VRWC that have been cooking for a generation now, with the VRWC stirring the pot so the sense of grievance builds.

Allegedly, Christians feel insecure about praying as Christians in the military. In point of fact, the US Air Force Academy has been so taken over by fundagelicals and Talibornagains that a female Lutheran chaplain finally quit (and last I checked the Lutherans are still Christians) and a Jewish grad is suing for the continuous harassment he endured (being called a Christ-killer over and over is bound to get under anyone's skin). Sports are played for "Team Christ," and on and on.

Furthermore, some chaplains in the war zone have been pulling out all the stops in their missionary efforts.

So much for the persecution of Christians and their spiritual advisors in the military.

On the home front we have Wednesday's debate in the US Congress, no less, over protection of Christmas decorations and symbols, prompted by the same folks who brought us the terrible news that saying Happy Holidays and decorating Holiday Trees were symptomatic of (you guessed it) persecution of Christians in this once-Christian country.

I'd laugh it off as the ravings of a few delusional wingnuts, but unfortunately for us all there's an awful lot of them. This isn't about their being provincial and ignorant of the world around them (though they are that, too), it's about the manufactured grievances that can ultimately lead to all-too-real persecutions -- of other people. Just ask the Lutheran chaplain and the Jewish graduate of the Air Force Academy.

Hekate