GM to Nearly Triple India Production

[Ganja Ninja]

BANGALORE, India - General Motors Corp. said Tuesday it plans to nearly triple the number of cars it produces in India to meet growing demand in the South Asian country.

The announcement came just weeks after the company said it would slash 30,000 jobs and scale back production in the United States.

GM previously had announced plans to increase production in India from more than double the 25,000 cars a year it currently produces in the country. Lawrence Burns, vice president for research and development, said Tuesday that the number of vehicles made in India would eventually reach 80,000.

However, Burns provided few details of GM's plans for India, a country of 1 billion people with a fast growing economy that many Western manufacturers have long viewed as a potentially huge market.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_india

Anyone still think we need to help out struggling American car makers?

[tularetom]

1. Fuck 'em let them go to India

and make a car that runs on cowshit. We don't need their crappy products here, nor do I want to pay their health insurance costs.

[hogwyld]

3. Those are American workers

You're talking about. You want all these blue collar people to be unemployed and without health insurance? Be careful what you wish for, next time it may be your job or mine.

[Bridget Burke]

5. India has the world's largest middle class.

Quite a few autos can be sold there.

Those who made the decision to expand the India operation do not lack for health insurance. The union workers will be hurt.

[jseankil]

6. Yea Fuck American Workers! Right on Bro! /nm

/nm

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Yes, by all means, let's make some more Americans unemployed....

...and pay foreign workers in another country to do the same work so that they can spend their wages in their country in their economy. We won't even get the tax revenues from the people that will no longer have jobs.

IMHO, your point of view is pretty lame and short-sighted.

[LostinVA]

26. Nice anti-labor sentiment

[Kolesar]

2. 80,000 is about 1% of their production

I think GM has the capacity to produce 6 million cars/year.

[Psephos]

4. I'm interested in helping American auto workers

if you can propose a plan that does that without helping the automakers too, I'm all ears.

Meanwhile, the DU celebration of the collapse of American manufacturers continues...as if this is a good thing.

Peace.

[Ganja Ninja]

9. First we need to recognize blackmail when we see it and ...

not reward it. If GM and Ford cry for relief here while expanding overseas we should offer the relief to their foreign competitors to establish plants here. They're playing economic chicken with American workers and their communities. We need to break that habit.

Second, we need national health care to level the playing field for all American workers.

Just do those two things and if GM and Ford want to leave let them.

[jseankil]

10. National Healthcare could help lift the Burden on companies like GM

could it not? Give GM some relief for it's soaring multi-billiob healthcare costs.

[Psephos]

17. A bit of analysis here...

"If GM and Ford cry for relief here while expanding overseas we should offer the relief to their foreign competitors to establish plants here."

Following your logic, if, say, Honda expands overseas, and then wants some bennies to set up a US plant, you're all for it. But if GM or Ford expands overseas, and then wants some bennies to set up a US plant, you say let 'em take a long walk on a short plank. Bottom line: you'd like to see foreign companies replace US companies on US soil. Do you think it's a good idea that these foreign companies will pay the taxes on their profits to the treasuries of Japan and Germany or wherever rather than to the US government?

I live in a community where plants will close, and I live close to cities where plants did close, and unless you've spent some quality time in Flint or downriver Detroit, I call bullshit on your disregard for the disappearance of US carmaking. Plant closings lead to all sorts of human misery, including increased crime, decreased city taxbases, falling real estate prices, bad schools, upticks in drug and alcohol abuse, increases in suicide, and general despair and malaise.

Still think that's a small price to pay for the pleasure of seeing some executives feel the pain of having to draw down their portfolios? Think about what you're saying. I can understand people on the right not giving a shit about workers out on the street, but I can't fathom how people on the left can be so cavalier about the destruction of entire cities.

These are my opinions, nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal.

Peace.

[Ganja Ninja]

21. I worked for Pontiac motors for 13 years.

Look, it wasn't that long ago Ford and GM were making record profits. What did they do with the money? They spent it buying up foreign companies that's what they did.

Anyone that's worked in the auto industry knows how they play the game. They bid one plant and one city and now it seems one country against the other to see how many concessions and tax breaks they can get. They're like a sports franchise demanding a new stadium be payed for with tax dollars. Not because they aren't already making money, but because they want to make even more money.

It's not that I don't feel for displaced workers. I was once one myself. I just think it's an unhealthy practice to allow your livelihood to be held hostage.

If these are American companies then let them put America first by investing their profits in America. Instead they wait until their sales are in the toilet and then go hat in hand to the unions and local, state and federal governments looking for handouts.

They knew long ago they would have to change their model lineups. Do you think they don't already have plans and aren't just sitting and waiting for a green light from the bean counters?

I'd rather give the money to someone that isn't playing chicken with the livelihood of American workers.

[redqueen]

43. Very well put!

:applause:

[TommyO]

31. National Health Care

Not only would it level the field for all workers here in the U.S., it will level the playing field for businesses as well. It will allow for the small, innovative businesses, to compete against the GMs without having to worry about the staggering cost of health-care that small businesses face.

[hogwyld]

11. I too am baffled

By the apparent cheerleading here on DU to eliminate every job here. In their zeal to punish the bosses, many are willing to sell out the working mena dn women to attain their pyrric victory.

[Psephos]

19. Go figure

As my grandfather said, a poor man never gave nobody a job.

Class hatred of the people who run the auto business is one thing, but pretending that when hundreds of thousands of good jobs evaporate it's ok, as long as the execs get a slapdown...I've heard some crazy shit here in some threads, but that wins the blue ribbon.

Peace.

[anotherdrew]

15. to help US auto workers, replace 100% of corp management with new blood

the fool running things now are the problem, and have been the problem, for decades.

[Psephos]

16. Sounds good to me - replace the execs, but keep the workers

Of course, that means we have to keep the companies, too. Just being practical.

Peace.

[Hypatia82]

36. Problem is...

if that's done you'll have the wrong people replacing the wrong people. Someone with an MBA should get nowhere near the top exec ranks at a car company except for on the finance side. CEO and COO all need to be engineers who can sit down in a boardroom or at a computer and fiddle with a CAD program. Lee Iacoca is only a business whiz because he is an engineer. He knew how you make money with cars and turn a company around because he can pick up a schematic and know what's going on. When what you do depends on engineering first, second and last, having anyone but engineers in charge is trouble.

[lithiumbomb]

7. these are not for export

These are cars to be built in India for the local market. Probably models from their GM-Daewoo arm. This is not US production being transferred to India to then be exported back to the US.

[Sadie5]

12. I hope the Bankrupts court denies

GM the right to screw those workers who helped them make their fortune. They are asking the court to decide if they can lower wages, do away with pensions etc.

[Javaman]

13. And didn't moron* say that outsourcing was good for America??

at the cost of 30,000 jobs...

fuck GM. I hope they rot in hell.

[Codeine]

18. To be fair, this isn't really outsourcing.

These are cars made for India in India, notmade there to be brought back here.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. And how does this help the American economy?

[lithiumbomb]

29. more revenue

If GM can make money selling cars in India, then that's less money to lose globally, which means they won't go bankrupt as soon, which means it will save american jobs. :)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. That doesn't even make the remotest amount of sense.

[Codeine]

44. It doesn't.

I never said it did. It's just not outsourcing. GM would build those plants in India no matter what -- shipping cars to India just isn't cost-effective. It has no effect on the US economy.

[Javaman]

39. Not yet.

[lithiumbomb]

20. not outsourcing

I don't want to denigrate the issue of outsourcing at the expense of the american worker, but as I just said above, this is not an issue of outsourcing. GM, in this case, will be building cars in India for the Indian market. They will not be exporting them to the US, and the increased production in india will not be replacing anything we export there today. It'll probably be one or some vehicles from their Daewoo arm, and will be badged as Daewoos or Chevrolets. There are already two Daewoo models sold in India as Chevys, plus the Subaru Forester of all things.

Part of GM's problem in the US is that they're market share is plummeting. They're headed towards 25%, down from about 28-30% 2-3 years ago, down from 35% or more 10 years ago. They simply need to cut capacity. Sadly, this results in tens of thousands of unemployed. Offshoring production will not solve this problem.

However, I think we can expect production of parts to continue to move offshore. Some GM engines already come from China for installation in GM products built in North America. The Chevrolet Aveo, a 'world car' sold as a Daewoo or Chevrolet in dozens of countries, built in Korea currently, it's replacement will be built solely in China for export to the world. You can expect that to be the first Chinese built car for sale in the US.

But anyway, my point is that the increase in jobs in India is not the cause of the decrease in jobs in the USA.

[Ganja Ninja]

24. So they don't have the money to invest in America but ..

they have the money to invest in India?

It doesn't matter where the cars are being sold. It's the idea that they make money here and invest it overseas then blackmail workers and communities every few years when it's time to update their uncompetitive models. It will never end if we keep falling for it.

[lithiumbomb]

28. well they need revenue streams

Gotta spend money to make money and all that. If they see a market where they can make money, then that's something they need to persue. GM isn't making money at all, they're losing billions. The Asian markets like India and China are exploding. If they ignore those markets then they'll simply lose even more money.

[Ganja Ninja]

30. So their revenue streams should come at the expense of

the tax payers?
They have revenue streams. The problem is they only flow one way.

[lithiumbomb]

32. uh

I'm not sure how building cars in India, for the Indian market, which brings in income to GM Corporate, subsidizing their money losing north american operations, costs taxpayers anything.

[Ganja Ninja]

38. How are they still in business after all these years if they're ..

losing money on their NA operations? How do they come up with the money to invest in India if they're NA operation is consistently losing money? Who would loan them money if they never show any profit from their biggest operation right here in the USA?
The fact is they have some good years and they have some bad years and over the last 15 years they've had more good years than bad. Just because they have a couple of bad years doesn't mean we need to open up the government vault to them.

[lithiumbomb]

41. I'm sorry, but GM loses money

For the same reason the US is still in business with trillions in debt. :) They don't have any mystery source of income. They lost, globally, 1.6 BILLION in Q3. So in the first three quarters of 2005 they've lost about 4 billion dollars. This includes Opel, Holden, Daewoo, etc. Europe has leveled out, Opel seems to be about even after loosing hundreds of millions the past few years. You can see it all here:

http://www.gm.com/company/investor_information/earnings/hist_earnings/index.html

And as I've said, their market share in the US is plummeting, with their production at about 70% capacity. Keeping workers and plants around to build cars that no one is buying, there's not much point. Subsidies are really a seperate issue to Indian production. I'll let other people chatter about that. :)

[Hypatia82]

34. GM makes money...

over all the world, GM owns Opel in Europe, Holden in Australia and so on. It makes money all over the place. GM is hardly a company that exists and operates only in the US.

[lithiumbomb]

27. some of the big picture

Not replying to myself, just adding on as the thread progresses.

Toyota is _expanding_ its US manufacturing facilities. Note that while they are headquartered overseas, most of the japanese models from Honda, Toyota, etc., sold in the USA are built in North America. Toyota is the healthiest of the Japanese makers. They're building a new truck plant in texas, they just opened a new plant in Tennessee, and they're contracting out work to Subaru's plant in Indiana to build 100k more cars per year. Toyota built 470k vehicles in 2004 at their Kentuky plant alone. What we're seeing is a realignment of the US auto industry.

http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/manufacturing/index.html

I think you'll find that the number of vehicles produced in the US, overall, continues to grow. Lackluster mainstream products, poor management from the top, unsustainable union contracts, plus a structure that's still organized as if they own 50% of the auto market, are what's killing GM, and to a similar extent Ford.

[anotherdrew]

14. THEN LET THEM MOVE CORP HEADQUARTERS THERE TOO

GM and FORD and every other US business that has spent the last few decades destroying this country can go to hell. Their management are nothing but a bunch of two faced traitors.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. Great idea! Let's lose several tens of thousands of American jobs!....

...And let's also lose the tax base for all the Americans that will never find work with the pay they were getting from Ford, and let's make sure that we pump money from all the Indians employed by Ford into the economy of India instead of the U. S..

What a GREAT idea! Simply wonderful.

[Hypatia82]

25. India has what just over a billion people...

and a rapidly emerging middle class. That's a huge demand for cars ramping up. A demand that is best handled by building the cars in India. Just basic business.

[tabasco]

33. GM is a multinational corporation with no loyalty to any nation.

GM is not concerned with American workers or the fate of the USA.

GM is only concerned with making money and acumulating power.

GM (like most huge corporations) makes every effort to avoid paying taxes and seeks to obtain taxpayer money.

It is said that a poor man never gave another man a job. It is also true that a corporation never died in a war. A corporation doesn't give a job out of goodness. It gives a man a job only to achieve more money and power.

Corporations should pay their fair share and treat the workers right. If not, I don't care if they go to India or go under. A newer, smarter corporation will be there to take its place.

If we don't stand up to those who tell us how great the rich are for giving us jobs, we will become little more than slaves.

[Hyernel]

35. Does India have nationalized healthcare?

Does GM have to provide retirement pensions to their Indian workers?

Maybe America has to do Universal Healthcare and beef up Social Security, to take the pressure off the corporations, just to compete.

[Hypatia82]

37. That wouldn't quite do it...

all that healthcare and pensions and such are paid for by something, namely taxes. It wouldn't do GM much good to save them a few hundred million out of pocket if you turn around and triple their tax bill. Either way they're paying. As it is in India there's a huge developing market and lower labor costs. Even when the labor costs level out the market there is so huge the volume alone will dictate manufacturing cars to be sold there locally.

[VegasWolf]

40. Funny, GM wants a US Government bailout while it ships employment

overseas!!!! and Bush will probably agree!

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke: