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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:33 PM
Original message
Beach erupts into violence (Sydney)
SCUFFLES have broken out after about 5,000 people, some yelling racist chants, converged on Sydney's Cronulla Beach amid fears of more violence there.

Two men of middle eastern appearance were seen being pursued and attacked as they tried to flee the crowd.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17531782%255E1702,00.html
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. I've seen a drunk crowd on the beach for Sprin break and
it can easily turn into a riot!!!

Tensions are getting higher and higher!!!
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. "No more Lebs?"
The world has gone mad.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Much better
than a continent full of Puritans anyday.

Civilized...like Americans? :rofl:
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Maybe you ought to review early U. S. colonial history....
...seems like you might be really surprised by what you learn.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I strongly suggest you take that back, apologize, or self-delete.
I'm assuming you have NO idea how offensive the word "convict" is to an Australian.

You may as well throw around words like "pickaninny" and "cracker" in the Southern U.S.

I'm not kidding. It's that offensive -- not to mention archaic, stereotypical, and completely inaccurate.

And to broad-brush an entire nation -- and extremely proud one at that -- as "uncivilized" is shocking. Do you call the French "surrender monkeys," too?

You owe all Australians an apology -- or at the very least, a self-deletion of your post. I would hate to think any outside observers would see your words and assume you speak for the rest of DU.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Can you explain the behavior noted above?
That's not to say that the same type of behavior can be explained in Americans when they have displayed it.

But it was equally reprehensible then, and deserved strong derision.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Am I defending the racists in Sydney?
Re-read my post, BGL. I am objecting to broadbushing Australians as "convicts" (which is a highly offensive epithet when used by an outsider), and calling the entire country "uncivilized."

This has nothing to do with the behavior described in the LBN story itself.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
itchyvet Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Rioting On Aust Beaches
Sapphocrat.

I'm assuming you have NO idea how offensive the word "convict" is to an Australian.

You owe all Australians an apology -- or at the very least, a self-deletion of your post. I would hate to think any outside observers would see your words and assume you speak for the rest of DU.
----------------------------
Hey, don't take things so seriously, IMHO it's also Aussie tradition, to laugh at one's self .
And in case you feel I dunno what I'm talkin about, I'm Aussie too and bloody proud of it.
I have no intention of lettin some Redneck ignoramus get under my skin.
Sure, we have a convict past, there's no denying that, and I certainly make no apology to anyone for that, it happened a long time ago, and the poor buggers who were involved, didn't have much of a say in it either.
Come to think of it, I guess it was bit back then, much as it is today, the poor and under trodden get the dirty end of the stick, while the rich get richer and fatter.
As for the remark about BARBARIC, HEY, c'mon now, which country is it, that's thrown International law out the window, and is TORTURING INNOCENT PEOPLE, which country is it, that's ILLEGALLY INVADED another, who has not lifted a finger of aggression against the U.S., which country is it, that's ILLEGALLY waged a WAR OF AGGRESSION CONTRARY TO THE GENEVA CONVENTION against another and Bombed and murdered their civilians in excess of 1,000, 000 and possibly more ?????????
Destroyed that countries infrastructure, water and sewerage, medical facilities and spread depleted uranium throughout ensuring death for untold generations of unborn Iraqis ?????

Course, NONE of the above could be construed as BARBARIC now could it ??????
Mind you, us Aussies don't come outa this with a clean slate, our sycophant PM with his arselicker cronies have seen to that. Thankfully, Australaians did not support him uniateraly in his actions.
Rest easy mate, our consiences are clear on this one. Mine is at any rate.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. You probably didn't see the post...
...I was replying to; it's since been deleted.

I know the Aussie sense of humor (do I ever!) -- but I also know that certain words are fighting words, especially when uttered by a foreigner. You have the right to joke about Australia's convict past; I do not.

And if one of your countrymen were to label all Americans "ignorant rednecks," I would hope you would stand up and protest that not only is it highly unwise to toss around the word "redneck" without knowing who you might be offending (even though many Yanks wear the "redneck" label as a badge of honour, I would not), but that to label all Yanks "ignorant" and "redneck" just isn't cricket.

As for the specifics of what's going on in Australia today, don't get me started; I'm one of a small number of Yanks who's even begun to try to understand the quirks of Aussie governmental procedure, and how nearly 20 million people can be hammered into submission by a ruling party they hate, and an opposition party that has very little grasp on the meaning of the word "opposition." I think it's appalling that you can't get so much as a glimpse at the text of such sweeping legislation as Johnny's specious "counter-terror" plan or the grossly unfair I.R. reforms unless some backbencher with a conscience leaks it on the Web. I think Joyce is an opportunist; I think Latham is spot-on in his assessment of the ALP but I'm pissed as hell at him for destroying his own message by acting like a man who just had a psychotic break; I think Vanstone is the progeny of a coupling between Satan and Cruella de Ville; and I don't trust Beazley as far as I could throw him. I also think that Cardinal Pell is the Aussie equivalent of Jerry Falwell, and that the Aboriginals have gotten as raw a deal from white Australia as our Native Americans have from the "Christian" U.S.

In other words, I can complain all day about what's wrong with Australia, and whether you agree with me or not, I can debate these issues based on an informed opinion. I do not, however, slam the Australian people as a whole because of what your government is doing now, or based on some narrowminded assessment of Australia's origins.

I'll use a more direct example: I am horrified, terrified, and disgusted beyond words that a right-winger like Angela Merkel is now chancellor of Germany. I have the right to spout off all day long about Germany's Christian Democratic Union, and the danger of Germany being sucked back into a "pre-Enlightenment" era of social conservatism -- but do I have the right to say something like, "Well, it figures -- Germany's nothing but a bunch of Nazis and KKK-like skinheads" - ?

Maybe I have the right to say that -- but should I?

If I did utter any such thing, I would hope someone would have the good sense to take me to task for it.

Of course Australia has a convict past -- that's no secret. And it's no secret that a lot of Aussies are sorely disappointed to learn they can't trace their own roots back to a real, live convict. But to define Australia and Australians solely as a continent of violent criminals is no more fair than defining Germany as a nation of Nazis -- or the U.S. as a bunch of uneducated, inbred, snake-handling, war-lovin', homo-hatin' rubes.

So, while I'm glad you don't feel the need for anybody to step up to your defense -- and, believe me, I know no self-respecting Aussie needs "help" from anybody ;) -- I won't sit by and watch anybody unfairly maligned... especially not a country and a people I love as much as I do my own.

And that's not hyperbole, mate -- like it or not, I intend to be living on your side of the planet in a few years, with an Aussie passport in my pocket. Unless, of course, the ability to trace one's lineage directly to Ned Kelly becomes a condition of citizenship. ;)

Two more things: 1) Welcome to DU, mate! and 2) If you haven't discovered the Australia forum here yet, you should check it out. I think you need to make a donation and get your donor's star before you can access the smaller forums (somebody will correct me on that if I'm wrong) -- but that's where you'll find the Aussie DUers, and some intriguing discussions of everything going on Down Under.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. Hi itchyvet!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Offensive to Australians - CRICKEY!!!
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expatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. text messaging - high tech mob violence.
"Mounted police and other units are maintaining a heavy presence at the beach today after two rival groups used text messages to urge attacks on each other."
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wookie294 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. Australia is more right wing than America
For years, I have always wanted to visit Australia. But I changed my mind after learning more about the country and its government. Stay out of Australia!
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. And the Australian government is allowed extraordinary intrusion
into people's lives. To an extent even beyond that ridiculous PATRIOT act that we keep screaming and yelling about, and the average Aussie doesn't seem to care.

And, except of course for the fine Aussie members of DU, every single (white) Australian I've ever met (about two dozen) has been a STONE racist.

Redstone
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justasoldier Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. You should check your post
It is ridiculous to make those insinuations. Having spent a quite a bit of time in that part of the world, having family in Australia and NZ, I am white and have yet to meet a racist Australian. I am not saying that they don't exist - but show me a country, culture, or race where racism/prejudice is absent.


justasoldier
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. what a shame
I know no place is perfect, but I had always thought of Australia being a much more open and tolerant society...I'm black, and all the aussies I've met in my life (granted, not a large number) were incredibly kind and polite
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. In some ways, it still is.
...more open and tolerant. Don't judge all Australians by this sickening story of racism. I would hate to think the rest of the world views all Americans through the filter of, say, the Watts riots. Or, more recently, the wave of physical attacks on anyone perceived to be a Muslim in the U.S. immediately after 9/11.

To my way of thinking, the ebb and flow of progress in Australia mirrors that of the U.S., only at a different speed and time. The last time I was there (six weeks over Sept.-Oct.), it felt, as it always does, like being in the U.S. of my youth: slower, kinder, gentler, nicer -- and definitely cleaner. But it also felt like what I imagine the 1950s would have been like here if Joe McCarthy had been president.

Just think of Australia as going through the first throes of its own "Patriot Act" era right now (as well as a major, crushing assault on blue-collar workers by the federal government -- sound familiar?). They've gone through worse, and so have we -- and if you believe, as I do, that the U.S. will come out of this nightmare at all, then you have every reason to believe Australia will too. It's just going to be on their own schedule, not ours.

As far as racism in Australia goes, I know only what I've been told, as I've never witnessed so much as a verbal slur while there. The country is something like 93% white-European, and I've never seen an African-American there. Africans, yes, especially Sudanese, but the only other non-white people I have seen at the mall or wherever have been almost solely Pacific Islanders (mostly Torres Strait & Fiji), and lots of Maoris from New Zealand. But then, consider the geography -- and the fact that it's a rare day I run into another American, white or not.

The funny thing is, when I'm down there (and I spend almost all my time in Melbourne), I seem to be the only one who actually notices non-white people when I see them. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, where whites are outnumbered by non-whites, so I don't notice whether anybody else at my local supermarket is white, black, Hispanic, or Asian. So it's the absence of non-white people in Australia that throws me.

As for Aboriginals, there is still a big divide, and a major issue of contention. In short, white Australia did to the Aboriginals pretty much everything white America did to the Native Americans -- and the results have been pretty much the same. The difference is that, I believe, the majority of white Australians are now labouring under some serious guilt, and trying to find a way to unite with Aboriginal society, in a way that isn't solely lip service.

I guess all of the above must make it sound pretty bad for non-white folks Down Under, doesn't it? I can't tell you that it's all good in Australia, because I'm white (although not quite as white-looking as the average Aussie; I'm more Latin-looking, which gets me a few friendly but curious looks from time to time), so I can't possibly see it through your eyes. On the other hand, I'm also queer as a three-dollar bill, and make no effort to hide that fact. And from that point of view, I can say I've run into far less homophobia Down Under than I have in the U.S. The rule is basically this: As long as you're good and trustworthy and understand real "mateship," then you're A-OK in most everybody's book, and you're always going to be a "member of the club" unless you do something drastically outrageous, like betraying a friend. (I consider there to be no higher compliment in the world than for an Aussie to truly consider me a real "mate" or "cobba"; it's an honour to me.)

Still, I've never witnessed so much as a cross look at a non-white person, and all the Aussies I know couldn't care less what color their friends, co-workers, or neighbors are.

Sure, interracial violence happens. Heck, there are some leftover pockets of antagonism between some Aussies and the Greeks and Italians who emigrated in the 1950s. There are Aussie-Serbs who detest Aussie-Croatians and vice versa (and there's a significant number of both down there). But what country can say it's free of such conflict? Certainly not the U.S.

I hope you'll forgive my long post; obviously, Australian culture is one of my very favorite subjects. Australia is far from perfect -- but what's good about it is nearly impossible to explain if you haven't experienced it personally.

Which is why I ramble on endlessly, trying to explain it. LOL
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
17. Racial tension sparks Sydney riots
Racial tension sparks Sydney riots
12 December 2005

http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/common/imageViewer/0,1445,216030,00.jpg
ON THE GROUND: A man is arrested by police at North Cronulla after a day of racial violence at the beach.
Fairfax

http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/common/imageViewer/0,1445,216006,00.jpg
RIOT CONTROL: Racial tension erupted into violence in Sydney yesterday when 5000 people converged to defend their beach from what they believe are gangs of Middle East background after two young surf lifesavers were attacked last week.
Reuters

SYDNEY: Racial tension erupted into violence on a Sydney beach on Sunday when around 5000 people, some yelling racist chants, attacked youths of a Middle Eastern background, saying they were defending their stretch of beach.


Thousands of local surfers and beachgoers gathered at Cronulla Beach after two young lifesavers were attacked last Sunday by a group of young men from Sydney's western suburbs.

Drunken youths chased and attacked Australians of Middle East appearance at the beach in Sydney's south, sending some cowering into shops and hotels for safety, as riot police and dog squads tried to stop the violence.

By Sunday night, violence had spread to a second beach, Maroubra, where men armed with baseball bats smashed cars. Police said a man was stabbed in the back in south Sydney in what media reports said appeared to be further racial violence.


snip


http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3509223a10,00.html
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Thom Little Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. Mob violence spreading
Late yesterday, after an uneasy peace had returned to Cronulla, the violence spread. Police said youths damaged cars in at least one nearby suburb and a man was stabbed after what a police spokesman described as a short conversation with a "group of males of Mediterranean or Middle Eastern appearance". The victim was hospitalised in a serious condition.

Dozens of police in riot gear also were involved in a confrontation with youths in the Brighton-le-Sands suburb, near Sydney's Botany Bay.

Earlier yesterday, crowds approached people of Middle Eastern background at Cronulla beach "with vile abuse," said Mark Goodwin, the police assistant commissioner.


http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2387192005
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. I've hesitated to buy into this,
because I will appear to be politically incorrect to some people.

But this current trouble was started by a gang of Lebanese who appear to have major problems with
our society and culture. The beaches are not the only areas they target, and women in particular
find themselves on the wrong end of their anger. Many were born here, so I can only assume that
the problems arise from religious views rather than a cultural shock. It's been going on for a
few years now, and all Sydneysiders are aware of it.

In this current instance, the attack on a lifeguard sparked particular anger, as the work of
lifeguards is highly appreciated in this city, all the more so because it is voluntary. But there's
no doubt that the radio shock jocks fuelled much of the anger, encouraging the "send them back where
they came from" mentality, and neo-nazi groups made sure they were on hand at the beach to give
things an extra push along.

I don't think the NSW Premier, Morris Iemma, has helped at all, with such comments as "the police
will deal with these thugs and morons" (meaning the Lebanese), and calling for 25 years' jail for
anyone attacking a lifeguard. The community should be able to look to him to try to build bridges
instead of taking sides, whatever his personal feelings might be.

It's a tricky situation, because sensible people are wary of targetting another group on religious
grounds - hence my reluctance to post - but in this instance we are faced with one particular sub-
group who seem to have a huge problem in adapting to a culture that doesn't reflect their own
religious views.

I don't have the answer to the problems, but it's not entirely due to the racism of Australian
society (although I'd never deny that it's present). It has everything to do with the problems
of integrating a culture that is totally alien to the country in which it finds itself, and
Australia is not the only country currently trying to grapple with this.




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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
21. Racial tensions spark violence in Sydney
Racial tensions spark violence in Sydney
Last Updated Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:26:21 EST
CBC News
Police fought running battles with demonstrators who attacked Middle Eastern-looking people on a beach in Sydney, Australia on Sunday in a clash that resulted in at least six arrests and several injuries.

About 5,000 people had gathered on Cronulla Beach to denounce what they said were racially motivated attacks on two lifeguards last week. Those in the crowd said a gang of Lebanese youths were responsible for the assaults.

Officers used batons and pepper spray to disperse the crowd after some of the demonstrators, many chanting racial slurs, hurled beer bottles and stamped on police vehicles.

Ken Moroney, police commissioner of New South Wales, said the mob broke the windows of an ambulance and attacked two paradmedics. In another incident, people chased a woman on the beach because of her race.

more at...http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/12/11/australia-violence051211.html

:(

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NorCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Ahh, what a wonderful world we've help to create. n/t
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Sigh
dont they ever listen to John Lennon song.
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