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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:16 AM
Original message
Shiite, Sunni groups sign pact for US withdrawal timetable

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/003200512091011.htm

Shiite, Sunni groups sign pact for US withdrawal timetable

Baghdad, Dec. 9 (AP): A group of Shiite and Sunni parties has signed a declaration condemning terrorism, urging a timetable for the end of the US military presence, and vowing never to normalise relations with Israel.

The parties to the "code of honour" included followers of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, deputy Prime Minister Ahmad Chalabi, Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq and the Sunni Iraqi Consensus Front.

The code also declared that resistance is a legitimate right and condemned "terrorism, violence, murder and kidnappings." The code is non-binding but it indicates what parties might choose to work together after the new parliament is elected next week.

Officials said al-Sadr was the driving figure behind the yesterday's pact.





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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bush sooo fucked up with this OIL Imperialism!!!! Now WE are sooo
fucked!!!
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. See, WhistleAss IS a uniter after all. And yes, you're correct
we, and the troops are sooooo f'd now. Resistance against the occupiers is good, blowing up fellow Iraqis is bad.

Thanks Shrub - Helluva job.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. ... and vowing never to normalise relations with Israel
this comes after the Iranian president's declaration to move Israel to Germany....

I am expecting a major explosion in the middle-east next year. The Israeli are convinced that Iran will acquire nukes soon. They are going hit first. Or else the Israeli have to accept a nuclear Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Both are queueing in Pakistan to acquire the technology...

all this thanks to George...
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. and will Iran Jr. (aka Iraq) also be on the radar?
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. OK, so they ask us to leave.....let's look at that .....
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 02:03 AM by Gloria
The purely 'logistical' considerations, followed by the actual probable situation (Clark):

The Daunting Logistics of Withdrawal--A Times


Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 07:13 PM by Gloria

Up now in the new World Media Watch (URL below in sig), tomorrow at Buzzflash.com)


3//Asia Times Online, Hong Kong Dec 9, 2005

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GL09Ak01.html



THE DAUNTING LOGISTICS OF WITHDRAWAL

By David Isenberg

(David Isenberg, a senior analyst with the Washington-based British American Security Information Council (BASIC), has a wide background in arms control and national security issues.)

Almost no consideration has been given to the question of just how fast the US can remove its forces from Iraq. But one can bet that logisticians in the Pentagon and Central Command planning cells have already been working on that question for some time.

Military officers have a saying: "Amateurs talk about strategy, dilettantes talk about tactics, and professionals talk about logistics."

On the plus side, the US military is experienced in moving forces out of the Persian Gulf region. In 1991 it was able to bring back from Kuwait to the US and Europe almost all of its over half million forces in a matter of months. Since then US military infrastructure has improved.

Additionally, since the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, US forces have undergone three rotations into Iraq (the last one taking place from March to July this year) and are preparing for a fourth. They have lots of experience in moving troops and equipment, in divisionsize formations, out of Iraq.

This time, however, the US would not be using the excellent ports and airfields in Saudi Arabia that it had access to in 1991. Nor were US troops battling an organized and deadly insurgency.

MORE




And now add what Gen. Clark forsees ----

Conference: Terrorism, Security & America's Purpose: Towards a More Comprehensive Strategy (September 6, 2005)
Remarks by General Wesley Clark: Former Supreme Allied Commander, NATO and former candidate for President of the United States
Watch the videoclip

Conference: Terrorism, Security & America's Purpose: Towards a More Comprehensive Strategy
September 6, 2005
Washington, D.C.

snip

Q: You spoke of how we need to change our course in Iraq before it's too late. My question is, and we've heard a lot about it this morning, about how our U.S. presence in Iraq is creating rather than vanquishing our enemies. Isn't it already too late? Isn't the course we need to adopt one of an orderly withdrawal?

General Clark: Well, I would say that's not the right course to adopt, right now. And I want you to picture what would happen if we announced we're coming out. Now just imagine it, OK. The president, right after Labor Day, you know they always say never announce anything new before Labor Day, the president comes on national TV and says, "I've heard your thoughts, my fellow countrymen, we've lost 2,000 American's, spent 200 billion dollars and we're coming out. We're coming home."

Well the men and women in the armed forces can do it. It will be a fighting withdrawal because the insurgents will be on the heels of the American columns as they come out. I can picture our men and women in those humvees and the dump trucks. You can see them taking fire and asking, "Should I shoot back, if I shoot back who's in that building?" I can see a long and bloody retreat. It will take several weeks to get out of there, four or five weeks. Or if you stage it, it will be bloodier and more difficult for longer. The insurgents will claim they won. But that claim will be disputed by Al Qaeda. They'll say that they drove us out.

And the people who helped us in Iraq will be targeted. They already are targeted but they've got some assistance and support. That will go away quickly. These people will be running for their lives. 200, 300, 500, 800,000, a million. Everybody who ever talked to an American. We don't know where the boundary will be. But it won't be pretty.

And when it's said that we are coming out, the political process that we've put in place will start to come apart, naturally. People are already preparing. There's plenty of private militias there. They've got scores to settle, territory to gain, cleansing to do, resources to capture and I'm sure the Kurds will decide, you know they aren't Arabs anyway, they'll go their own way. So I would expect a pretty rapid recourse not only to civil war but regional conflict, if we were to pull out and say 'we're coming home.' Now, that's my scenario. It reduces American prestige, influence and power all around the world.

Q: These things have happened already, sir.

General Clark: Well, not to the extent I think I've sketched it out. So what I'd say is, that there is a middle ground or a better ground, than staying the course or announcing a withdrawal. We need to change that course and use America's leadership and power not only militarily but diplomatically and politically in the region to become a focus for regional cooperation. It is not yet too late.

MORE

Looks like General Clark's window could be closing well within his 4 month timeframe...
Of course, Bushco has never followed any of Clark's suggestions so his restating of those needed actions in the NYT editorial this week makes it even more obvious how Bushco has failed in Iraq in so many ways...and what a mess they've created!!
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. thank you for the article.
peace.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. What portion of the people do they represent?
Has anyone sent this to the MSM. I haven't heard anything about it today.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I doubt that you will see it in USA Today.
It's hard to say how many Iraqis they "represent", however al-Sadr and Jaafari between them cover a lot ground among the Shi'ia, and to have them in agreement on this is telling, as in most situations they are opponents. The Sunni group I don't know anything about.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Would it do any good to forward to MSM sites or will they ignore it?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. It's an AP story, they have it already.
But if you feel like reminding them, what can it hurt?
You could look it up on Yahoo and vote it up too.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Done.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. do you have a link to the Yahoo story?
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. No, couldn't find it at Yahoo or at AP. What's up with that?
Anyone know where to get the AP story? If it comes from an Indian site I think they will just try to ignore it.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. it is an AP story but hardly being picked up on the wire...
the JP has it, but is emphasizing on the Israel part:



Seems to be a pretty big deal that is definitely being under reported.

peace.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yeah, I'm just saying it's not because nobody knows about it. nt
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. The question is why isn't the MSM picking this AP story...
makes you wonder?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I think that's obvious.
It doesn't fit the government propaganda line on Iraq, and they think they can safely ignore it.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. oops, forgot my sarcasm tag :-)
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 11:37 AM by sabra
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Can't vote it up cause it's not there. Everyone needs to send to them
with a WTF?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. morons* reply, "resistance is futile"...
he*, as you know, is actually a borg.

colossal racist robotic failure*.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. KICK
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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