W.House: Marshals acted consistent with training

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N08359263.htm

W.House: Marshals acted consistent with training

WASHINGTON, Dec 8 (Reuters) - U.S. air marshals who shot and killed an American Airlines <AMR.N> passenger acted "consistent with their training" and an investigation will determine if any changes are needed in operating procedures, the White House said on Thursday.

Florida resident Rigoberto Alpizar, 44, was killed on Wednesday in Miami as he ran from an aircraft. Officials said he claimed to have a bomb in his backpack. Witnesses said the man might have been mentally ill.

"I don't think anyone wants to see it come to a situation like this, but these marshals appear to have acted in a way that is consistent with the extensive training that they have received," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

...

"Any time there's an investigation like this you learn lessons and then you apply those to future training and protocols. But it appears that the protocols that were in place were followed in this situation," McClellan said.

[soothsayer]

1. some cops are just itching to shoot someone. They get all that

training and are just dying to try it out! Feh.

No, not all of 'em, of course. But you sure can see the one's who are.

[Ezlivin]

2. Let's see the training manuals then

And just who is doing the investigation, anyway? An independent panel?

Riiiiiight.....

[deminks]

3. What about that little GAO report last week?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1955567&mesg_id=1955567

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051130/ap_on_go_co/air_marshals

WASHINGTON - Efforts to train thousands of federal agents to protect commercial flights during heightened terror alerts were quietly abandoned more than a year ago because Congress objected to the cost, government investigators said Tuesday.

The Government Accountability Office, an investigative arm of Congress, reported that the federal air marshal service suspended its efforts to develop such a "surge capacity" by training customs and immigration agents to protect passenger airliners.

Ridge announced that the air marshals would be combined with immigration and customs agents in the same agency so agents in both could be cross-trained and used for aviation security. The move would allow more than 5,000 armed federal law enforcement agents to be deployed on commercial aircraft, he said.

By October 2004, Homeland Security had cross-trained some immigration and customs agents, but stopped because of congressional concerns that it was "an ineffective use of resources," the report said.



What effing training would you be referring to?

[Bragi]

4. The media apologetics on this make me gag

I can't believe how absolutely tolerant media are when anyone with a badge shoots down anyone without one. Based on zero evidence about yesterday's shooting, they are falling over themselves trying to explain it all away. I have yet to hear a single commentator state the obvious fact that all we know, at this point, is that this was an unnecessary shooting. It's exactly the same tenor as the shooting last summer in the London Underground, which we now know occured due to incompetance.

- B

[Nashyra]

6. NO they better not make the manuals public

Security training for the airlines have ALWAYS been private and they should remain that way, it is one of the ways that have gone along way in protecting passengers and crew. This is one of the reasons I have always been so pissed at * about 911, he recieved a memo on Aug 6th Osama determined to strike, remember that one, well their excuse was they thought it would only be "conventional" hijacking, any hijacking should have put the whole system on higher level of alert just like before the millineum.

I'm sorry but from what I have heard so far and what I have heard from husband who actually is a pilot for American and might just know what he is talking about it agree it was a tragic incident but the marshals acted in the best interest of ALL the passengers, split second decision. I have sat and talked to these marshals on numerous overseas flights and believe me the last thing they want to do is kill somebody who is not an actual threat, that is one of the reason for years before 911 there were those signs all around security that say "threats will be taken SERIOUSLY.

I could not believe when Wolfie yesterday said that it was ok to bring scissors back on the aircraft because the cockpit was now secured, "there are only flight attendants and passengers at risk" EXCUSE ME, just because they can not get into the cockpit and the pilots can land the damn plane it's ok to find a plane load of dead passengers and flight attendants? Please keep your criticism to a minimum unless you are well versed on the procedures.

Yes it is a shame, and even though his wife claimed he was ill part of a terrorist scenario is to create a distraction, sorry but I never thought I would agree with any repuke or with scott the turn Mac but in this case I have to.

[MrPrax]

5. Pointless...

Anytime cops shoot to kill the same answer is usually given, "protocols that were in place were followed in this situation". Of course, if it is a dicey 'shooting', cops will offer to 'review' protocols.

This line of defense passes blithely over the real questions as to whether the protocols are proper or if it is wise to train mindless 'kill bots' who do little more than follow orders, discharge weapons in crowds, engage in high speed chases and tend to forget why we employ police in the first place.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. How the hell could the WH know how the marshals acted

when all of the facts of the story haven't been investigated yet?

[EFerrari]

15. They said "consistent with training."

These bastards.

[NVMojo]

8. (WH) Officials Say Air Marshals Did Right Thing

a quick and easy CYA from the White House ...

MIAMI (AP) -
The White House said Thursday that two federal air marshals appeared to have acted properly when they shot and killed an agitated passenger who claimed to have a bomb in his backpack.

No bomb was found, and authorities later said Rigoberto Alpizar, the passenger killed Wednesday at the Miami airport, was not a terrorist. Witnesses said his wife had frantically tried to explain that he was mentally ill and had not taken his medication.

"I don't think anyone wants to see it come to a situation like this," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. "But these marshals appear to have acted in a way that's consistent with the extensive training that they have received. And we'll see what the investigation shows, and lessons learned from that will be applied to future training and protocol."

Similarly, Dave Adams, a spokesman for the Federal Air Marshal Service, said the marshals followed proper procedures. "We only react when there is a threat to the aircraft, passengers or crew," he said.

more...

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/2005/dec/08/120803049.html

[Aviation Pro]

9. I notice that Adams put....

....the asset ahead of the humans in this statement:

Similarly, Dave Adams, a spokesman for the Federal Air Marshal Service, said the marshals followed proper procedures. "We only react when there is a threat to the aircraft, passengers or crew," he said.

Typical of corporate America.

[6000eliot]

10. Well, that's a good sign that they didn't act properly

Believe the opposite of anything the WH says, and you'll know the truth.

[Orsino]

11. Gee, *this* White House, coming out in favor of killing people?

Who would have guessed?

[Bragi]

18. Here's the nub...

"Similarly, Dave Adams, a spokesman for the Federal Air Marshal Service, said the marshals followed proper procedures. "We only react when there is a threat to the aircraft, passengers or crew," he said."

And the fact of the matter is THERE WAS NO THREAT TO ANYONE. There was just a pumped-up, untrained over-reaction.

Now class, can you spell P-O-L-I-C-E--S-T-A-T-E?

- B

[Child_Of_Isis]

19. threat to the aircraft, passengers or crew

Property over people. Property is always more important these days.

[brentspeak]

12. Anyone know what kind of gun and ammo the marshalls use?

Isn't the object in a situation like this to first wound the suspected terrorist if at all possible, so he can be alive to answer questions about accomplices, where the bomb is located, etc? Because they hit him with six shots. As someone on another thread put it, that qualifies as target practice.

[natrat]

13. apparently the word bomb was never said

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1138965,00.html

[EFerrari]

14. I feel so much safer now.

I can't wait to fly, knowing that air marshalls will take care of me. Anyone that can make little girls cry is okay with me. :sarcasm:

[Bragi]

17. What an 'effen tragedy...

This is so sad. It is so obvious that this guy should not have been killed that I think they *may not* get away with it.

- B

[HockeyMom]

16. First of all,

They were on the ground and not in the air. That ALONE makes a major difference. From the reports I have heard, the man's wife had been screaming that he was off his meds and there was a ruckus prior to all this gong down. The passengers were evacuated from the plane, and he was shot on the runway. Did I hear wrong? What was he going to blowup? HIMSELF ON THE GROUND?

[bemildred]

20. I would think "consistent with law" would be the proper question. nt

[blackspade]

21. interesting...

"I don't think anyone wants to see it come to a situation like this, but these marshals appear to have acted in a way that is consistent with the extensive training that they have received," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

Then perhaps there is a problem with the training?

Besides, since when does the WH need to comment on a police shooting?
The fact that they are at all before any investigation is conducted makes me think that this whole thing stinks.