GOP watching Calif. 'Minuteman' election (USA Today)

[Catchawave]

By William M. Welch, USA TODAY
1 hour, 40 minutes ago

Conservatives who see illegal immigration as the next powerful political issue are getting an early test run barely 100 miles from the Mexican border.


Jim Gilchrist, co-founder of the Minuteman Project of armed citizen border patrols that began last fall, has transformed a special congressional election with his call to put U.S. troops along the Mexican border to choke off the human flow.


GOP strategists say the contest is a preview of the potential strength of illegal immigration as a ballot-box issue. They are looking to opposition to illegal immigration as a way to edge out Democrats in 2006, and not just in border states.


"I see immigration as being the welfare reform of this decade," says Republican pollster Frank Luntz, referring to an issue that united Republicans in the 1990s to the detriment of Democrats.

Cont'd at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20051205/pl_usatoday/gopwatchingcalifminutemanelection;_ylt=Aqv9sCsEQiOLvsnghKyuJtsJCGYD;_ylu=X3oDMTBidHQxYjh2BHNlYwN5bnN0b3J5

[MrBenchley]

1. They need to see if the new code word for racism works

By the way, here's Frank Luntz' new favorite:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=13

http://mediamatters.org/items/200504060003

[MrTriumph]

2. It is not racist to save Am. jobs for Americans of all colors & creeds

Do Illegals take jobs from whites? Sure. But they also take millions of jobs from Americans of Hispanic and African heritage.

[MrBenchley]

3. It's Mexican bashing, plain and simple

the way Gilchrist and the GOP use it....

"But they also take millions of jobs from Americans of Hispanic and African heritage."
And all of those jobs are badly paid, dangerous and exploitive.

You will notice proposals from the right to "solve" this problem NEVER include harsher penalties for the employers exploiting illegal immigrants.

[MrTriumph]

4. Baloney- It is not Mexican bashing.

Agreed that existing employer sanctions should be enforced and new ones added, how does it follow that anti-illegal labor sentiment translated into Mexican bashing?

[MrBenchley]

5. It sure as shit is when it comes from these bozos

"how does it follow that anti-illegal labor sentiment translated into Mexican bashing"
Did you click on the links?

Here's Gilchrist's group at a rally in Laguna Beach...notice the Nazi flag there?

[Johnyawl]

7. None the less...

...if all the left does is stand around and and splutter about "racism" and "mexican bashing" we'll get our butts handed to us. Illegal immigration is an issue that will resonate with the working class. We need to put forward a plan for actually dealing with the problem, a plan that makes sense, and will work. There is a deadly trap for the repugs on this issue; they don't really want to solve it, they only want to exploit it. Their corporate masters do not want the flow of cheap, exploitable labor cut off. But the Dems have to do more than complain about repugs tactics; we have to be seen as solving the problem.

[MrBenchley]

8. So let's climb on board with the Minutemen?

I see no reason not to point out that this is a cause mainly embraced by racist shitheads (Did you notice the person who organized the Laguna Beach hatefest got hounded out of that little klan when her fellow Gilchtrist supporters discovered she was part-Jewish?) or to give it legitimacy at any time in this way.

"we have to be seen as solving the problem"
Considering Gilchrist only pulled 15% of the GOP vote during the primary, it's not even clear that this is an issue that resonates except with the hard-core racists in ultra-right wing Orange County...

[400Years]

23. No, we ought to create our own "issues" like stopping the fucking war

but that is hard to do when we've got corporate warmongers in our own party stabbing us in the back.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

33. Laguna Beach Hatefest & Jewish Hounded Out?

Hello MrBenchley,

You posted the following earlier today:

"I see no reason not to point out that this is a cause mainly embraced by racist shitheads (Did you notice the person who organized the Laguna Beach hatefest got hounded out of that little klan when her fellow Gilchtrist supporters discovered she was part-Jewish?) or to give it legitimacy at any time in this way."

Can you please tell me where you saw this? I mentioned it to someone Jewish who wanted to vote for him, and they were interested in more information. Thanks.

OrangeCountyDemocrat

[badgervan]

25. Agree

I agree with you, in that we have to be seen as solving the problem. I believe that existing laws should be strictly enforced, beginning with a tough, comprehensive and lasting effort to punish employers who use illegal labor. Harsh penalties for these greedy businesses will do more to discourage this blatant law breaking than mere words could ever do. These folks who knowingly hire illegals are the root cause of this huge problem, so it makes sense to hack away, and I mean really hack away, at that root to destroy the cause. Destroy the incentive - works every time.

[olddad56]

29. they are not all mexicans, ......

many are from Central American countries and are fleeing because they live in fear for their lives. You can thank the CIA for that situation. The people fleeing Central America aren't welcome in Mexico either.

I think that our government would like to simply slaughter them, but they are too close to home. If these people lived in the Middle East, our government would have no problem spending a billion a day to kill them.

[Javaman]

16. Instead of going after the symptom, fix the cause...

force the people hiring the illegals to pay a living wage. This will then make it harder for illegals to take the jobs. if the jobs pay well, then low income Americans can compete for those same jobs. Like it or not, even our poor have a better standard of living than the illegals have coming in from Mexico. That's why they come here.

If the wage was raised, then poorer Americans would not only compete for those same jobs but also be able to make an income to support their lives.

As it is now, only the illegals take the work because, they usually live more than 6 to a small apt, all sharing the costs, thus they are willing to take any job that pays anything.

And even if the illegals still get the jobs over American citizens, they will be making better money, thus allowed to have a better standard of living and raise their status in society. ie: education, better living conditions, better food, etc.

It works out for everyone. Except the employer, right? Wrong, high wages usually translates to better employees. Better on time percentages, better work ethic, healthier work force, etc.

As long as the practice of paying illegals unbelievably noncompetitive low wages, we will always have this problem.

[trogdor]

21. Translation:

Remove the main reason employers will risk getting in trouble for hiring people without proper documentation by making sure everyone gets paid fairly.

[400Years]

24. by repealing NAFTA

NAFTA destroyed the Mexican corn industry.

[olddad56]

28. would they be taking them anyone else would do them?

[WhiteTara]

9. what the hell are "white Martin Luther Kings."

Gilchrist said that critics who called his group "vigilantes" ý naysayers who included President Bush ý were absolutely wrong about his volunteers.

Indeed, Gilchrist told USA Today, these men and women sought only to bring attention to a major social problem. Most were "white Martin Luther Kings."

:shrug:

[goclark]

10. Martin Luther King was always working for the have nots

He was no BULLY!

These people are the KKK of the Wild,Wild West.

They don't care about people getting jobs,they just want to bully somebody and carry a gun.

They are also so frustrated that ANY African Americans have jobs that they think belong to THEM and they want to make sure that the Mexicans understand that too.

I have lived in Los Angeles all my life and I agree that our hospital system is in bad shape, is it because of Hispanic crossing over the boarder,maybe?

I know that when I go to the hospital I see many wonderful,kind and caring Hispanics WORKING to scrub the floors and feed the patients.

If I wanted to put some blame on someone for the HORRIBLE health care in Los Angeles, I would put it on Ronald Reagan and some of the Democratic politicians as well.

But Ronald Reagan let mentally ill patients OUT of the hospitals!

Since then , the system has gone down hill from there.

[MrBenchley]

11. It truly is astonishing, isn't it?

Guess I've forgotten any incidents where Martin Luther King grabbed his gun and paraded around under a Nazi flag....

[President Kerry]

31. how brave and utterly keen of Gilchrist to compare himself to MLK

And I thought I've heard it all.:puke:

[pennylane100]

6. The fact is that there are thousands of undocumented workers

flooding into our country taking the low paying jobs and keeping wages depressed for the working classes. They are here because big business wants them and there is no effective law enforcement against the people that hire them.

If the democratic party handled this issue in a responsible manner and called for employer sanctions instead of picking on the poor people that are desperate to earn a living we would not be turning to the likes of those two republicans running for office.

Unfortunately, we as a party are unwilling or unable to tackle this issue, leaving the way clear for the republicans.

[MrBenchley]

13. Is THAT a fact?

"we would not be turning to the likes of those two republicans running for office."
A "We" aren't turning to either of those GOP shitheads
B Only one of THOSE GOP shitheads is pretending this is a big deal....

[Democat]

12. Why are Democrats so bad at finding and exploiting wedge issues?

We let the Republicans kick our asses every time.

When will the Democrats pick a fight and win?

[MrBenchley]

14. Because we don't appeal to people's base instincts

with coded appeals for racism and bigotry, silly.

[goclark]

15. Sorry to say you are exactly right ~

May the day come when people will not hold onto their child like fears that their grand parents taughtthem.

This is a new day, 21st Century and they are lost in the 50's.

[MrBenchley]

17. Thanks....

[amandabeech]

18. Obviously, there is no consensus within either the Dems or Pugs.

I've been to Free Republic, and their debates on this subject are not that different from ours. Immigration supporters call the others racists. The others say that the immigration supporters don't care about whether U.S. citizens and legal residents have jobs. The immigration issue does not cleve along party lines.

For us Dems, the question is whether we will lose votes to the Pugs solely on the basis of immigration.

For the Pugs, the question is whether they will lose anti-immigration voters if they don't start throwing out those here illegally, something that their corporate masters will not let them do.

The immigration issue could get so hot, IMHO, that a third party may form around this issue, especially if the economy goes even further south.

[400Years]

22. the corporate faction loves the depression of wages

I'm not against immigration myself but I am against the factors that make it necessary for people to leave their homes in search of a better existence. NAFTA wiped out the Mexican corn industry.

Having said that I welcome all the immigrants since they are making life here more hospitable. It's harder to notice the white fundamentalist kooks when they are drowned out by new immigrants opening up damn good restaraunts and impromptu mercados.

There is a racist component to all of this that will be exploited to the hilt but it might not be a bad idea to let this guy fight the republican all the way.

[amandabeech]

27. I opposed NAFTA myself.

I don't think that it has worked out well for Mexico, and the U.S. and Canada already had a trade agreement and high level of trade.

Mexico also has suffered from manufacturing plants being moved to even lower wage countries like China and Indonesia.

Frankly, if oil gets really expensive, like $100 a barrel, some manufacturing could move back to Mexico or the U.S. because the cost of shipping could become too high.

[Judi Lynn]

19. California congressional hopeful taps border fears

California congressional hopeful taps border fears
Flow of illegal immigrants has traditional Republicans eyeing an Independent
By ALAN FREEMAN

Monday, December 5, 2005 Page A18

NEWPORT BEACH, CALIF. -- When Alison Sweeney spotted Jim Gilchrist campaigning at the Corona del Mar Christmas fair yesterday, she and her husband rushed over to get their picture taken with the man who would seal the U.S.-Mexico border to keep illegal immigrants out.

"Once they're here, it's irreversible," complains Ms. Sweeney, a blonde 32-year-old business manager, who says illegal immigrants from Mexico and elsewhere are forcing down wages and stealing jobs from Americans.

"And nobody wants to talk about all the narco criminals coming over," her husband, Greg, chimes in.

Like most residents of Orange County, a vast swath of beaches, strip malls and well-tanned, chiselled faces, the Sweeneys usually vote Republican. But when voters go to the polls tomorrow to elect a replacement congressman, the couple plans to abandon the party and opt for Mr. Gilchrist, co-founder of the Minuteman Project, who is campaigning to halt the flow of illegal immigrants a year.
(snip/...)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051205/VOTE05/TPInternational/Americas

[Greeby]

20. If anyone doubts that Gilchrist is a racist

According to this, he's running on the American Independent party ticket. The AI Party was set by George Wallace in 68 so he could run for President and overturn the Civil Rights Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_48th_Congressional_District_Election%2C_2005

Do we have anybody in this district? Voting is tomorrow.

[MisterP]

26. Mr. Young, the Dem, is pretty good, last I heard

[Tempest]

30. He got 15% of the vote in the last primary

Why watch a perennial loser like Gilchrist?

[President Kerry]

32. this should be as interesting as watching Tancredo run for Pres

:rofl:

No single-issue candidate should have a shot, EVER. Particularly a racist one.

[Maggie_May]

34. How to deal with illegal immigration

Deal with the people who hire illegals. I have no problem with people who come over here but do it right. If I have to pay taxes for my schools my roads and to my so called federal government than so do they. We need to go after the companies that hire these people so they get jobs legally.