Pay women not to have abortions, say Italian MPs (The Guardian)

[Up2Late]

(Great, €350 a month for up to six months, so who pays the bills after the child is born?)

Pay women not to have abortions, say Italian MPs

· 'Baby bonus' proposal gets cross-party endorsement
· Low fertility rate threatens to undermine economy

John Hooper in Rome
Friday December 2, 2005
The Guardian

A proposal to pay women in Italy not to have abortions was rapidly gaining momentum yesterday as politicians of right and left alike gave it their endorsement.

The scheme - put forward by the left - came against a background of mounting pressure from the Roman Catholic church for a rethink of the country's 1978 abortion law. With a general election due in four months, both sides are keen to woo the decisive Catholic vote.

Under the scheme women in straitened economic circumstances would get between €250 (£170) and €350 a month for up to six months before giving birth. The plan is outlined in a proposed amendment to next year's budget sponsored by a group of MPs that includes two former women ministers - one an ex-Communist and the other from the centre-left.

Their move is the latest development in a burgeoning controversy over abortion in Italy. Last month Silvio Berlusconi's health minister, an opponent of the 1978 law, said he wanted to put pro-life volunteers into state-funded abortion advice centres to discourage women from terminating their pregnancies.

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,1656037,00.html?gusrc=rss>
(more at link above)

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Yep, $250,000 should get them through the primary grade.

[Orrex]

2. Terrible idea, IMO

Ignoring the very real problems of the inadequate funding proposed, the sheer political reality in the US is that Conservative assholes would howl that we're paying poor women to have more children.

You know, the same argument they make against foodstamps, WIC, and welfare.

Yes, the argument is bullshit, and clearly the money would be inadequate to do little more than just barely fend off starvation, but does anyone think that this plan could possibly fly in the US?

[Tace]

3. I'm A Male, But I Believe That A Woman Should Have Full Support...

not only to have children, but to raise them, including food, housing, education, and all the other necessary expenses.

[leesa]

6. Ummm...what kind of economy are you imagining would support this load?

At some point, public support needs to end and private support needs to kick in. There need to be boundaries or abuse will be rampant. Women are perfectly capable of raising children on their own, it's tough, but workable. But it's why they need to be able to limit the number of children they can manage.

[GrumpyGreg]

8. I do too,I called him my husband ! LOL

[LSdemocrat]

4. Depends on how the rest of Italy's social services are

If there are highly adequate social services available for women after they give birth, then this program seems fine as long as women are still free to make their own reproductive choices.

Anybody have any knowledge about the state of Italy's social services?

[Yupster]

11. Italy has a population problem

The native population isn't having enough babies to replace themselves. It's the same in much of Europe.

That puts a huge strain on the economy which will only get much worse as the population ages.

People complain about our social security demographics, but Europe's is much worse.

The solution is increased immigration, but Europeans don't like that solution either.

[sonicx]

5. Sounds like a system that could easily be abused

Tell them you want an abortion, even if you don't, and get money.

Why not try to lower poverty for all people?

[iamjoy]

7. At Least They Are Trying

This idea is far from perfect, but at least they are trying - unlike the U.S. where we have already cut welfare, we are cutting aid programs for poor women and children and if the Radical Clerics get their way, women won't have any choice but to bear a child in poverty.

[Mend]

9. they will pay for a while, outlaw abortion, and then stop the

money. These people don't really care about children or there wouldn't be any hungry ones in the world right now.

[Demeter]

10. The Answer Is Not Growth Unlimited, But Develop A Sustainable Economy

The only reason they want babies is for new taxpayers (and in the US, cannon fodder). But with the world in a population reduction mode, due to unsustainable levels of humanity, it is time to PLAN SUSTAINABLE ECONOMIES! One cannot grow out of a population excess crisis. Instead, one must make efficient use of what is available, sharing the wealth so that all those born are healthy and productive.
Eliminating waste and fraud (and throwaway people) will only strengthen a country. This means putting very well-defined limits on what corporations can do to fuck up people's lives and environments, as well as what governments can do to hurt their populations and their neighbors around the world.

It's time to grow up, in other words, and act like adults. To the GOP: you're FIRED!

[Sivafae]

12. I really hate the way this sounds...

But maybe, the men aren't worth having babies with. I know that sounds really bad. But I think you have to like the person you bear a child with. Call me silly.

[no_hypocrisy]

13. Sounds like Lebensboren to me. When you do prenatal welfare,

you are paying women to breed. It sounds like positive reinforcement to "choose life" over abortion, but the children are still born and essentially abandoned shortly after birth by society.

[area51]

14. Hey Italy...

If you need more people to work @ your jobs, why don't you pay unemployed Americans to move over to your country? Employ them, & you won't have to wait 18 (or whatever) years for them to start paying into your tax system. There's plenty of people here who want jobs, but w/this country's Depression economy, plus offshoring/inshoring, they may never be able to find employment here. Problem solved.