Democrat Gov. Warner rejects Iraq withdrawal date

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N28277588.htm

Democrat Gov. Warner rejects Iraq withdrawal date


NEW YORK, Nov 28 (Reuters) - The United States needs to set milestones for progress, not a firm withdrawal date, before it can leave Iraq, Virginia governor and prospective Democratic presidential candidate Mark Warner said on Monday.

"This Democrat doesn't think we need to re-fight how we got into (the Iraq war). I think we need to focus more on how to finish it," Warner said.

"To set an arbitrary deadline or specific date is not appropriate," he said. "... It is incumbent on the president to set milestones for what he believes will be the conclusion."

Warner outlined an Iraq policy during his appearance before New York's Asia Society, and said he might run for president after his term as governor expires in January. "I clearly want to be part of the national debate," he said.

[yngliberal]

1. Not suprised...

He's a member of the DLC so he's following the DLC talking points.

[redqueen]

68. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

And well put! :)

[leftstreet]

2. LOL - I think Murtha knows a little bit more about war than Warner

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. If Warner "doesn't think we need to re-fight how we got into the Iraq war"

does that mean he doesn't think it's important to discuss whether and to what extent the war was based on bullshit? If that's what Warner thinks then I don't think much of Warner.

[BikeWriter]

66. I agree.

[Drum]

4. whatever.

Governors don't decide foreign policy...and currently the Admin doesn't even care what they think regarding state or interstate issues.
Sheesh!

[mitchtv]

5. And I was flames for groaning at his sppearance

giving Dem talking points not only groan, now but:puke:

[Mass]

6. This places him somewhere between Hillary and Lieberman, as far

as I can tell, or may be Hillary and Biden.

[Boo Boo]

7. Warner said:

the debate should focus on how to finish the job; that Sunni Muslims and Iraqis in general should be involved in reconstruction; and that the United States must convince more allies to help.

Speaking to reporters later, he said it was not necessary to increase troop levels in Iraq. "It appears the country's headed in the opposite direction," Warner said.

:wow:

[WI_DEM]

8. well he's off my short list of possibilities

maybe Gen. Clark and Feingold.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Mine, too.

He's been the fair-haired boy since the recent VA election, but the last thing we need is a Hillary-lite DLC state governor with no foreign policy experience. Clark yes; Feingold, possibly; but not Warner.

[Pithy Cherub]

16. Warner never made the cut on my potential list.

Warner is showing a severe lack of executive leadership (POTUS job requirement), abdication of moral authority (POTUS job requirement) and no knowledge of national security issues (POTUS job requirement) this early. :scared:

Clark, Feingold definitely on the list!

[silverstateD]

21. Just like G W Bush had all those, right?

People don't care about resume crap they want someone they can relate to.

[Mass]

23. Sure, that how you end with W. Do we want a repeat?

I want a president who is able to be president. If not, I could as well vote for American Idol.

[Pithy Cherub]

24. People relate to honesty, and accountability in a presidential contender.

To obfuscate or minimize the loss of over 2100 American military personnel, civilians as well as thousands of innocent Iraqi's because some clueless pol (Warner) doesn't want to examine the reasons for this moral travesty is not something to be proud of. Warner is not somebody I would have a beer with or *relate to* based on the comments attributed to him regarding Iraq or his policy perscription.

But Welcome to DU! :hi:

[wisteria]

57. Well, I can't relate to the regurgitated crap he is spewing nor him

and I want someone who actually knows something for a change. A real President and leader, not a phony one.

[Walt Starr]

69. Mine too

:shrug:

Damn, and he had a real shot at it, too.

[spanone]

9. There's a big surprise. He never met a war a rethug started he didnt like.

[tritsofme]

11. Sounds very reasonable to me.

That may be a turn off to some around here.

[xchrom]

12. since american presense is the fuel for the fire

then yes, it is a turn off.

[wisteria]

58. It a collage of others talking points. He knows absolutely nothing. n/t

[iamjoy]

64. I Agree With You - I'm OK With This

I never saw him as one of those extreme anti-war candidates, and I would appreciate him not faking it.

His focusing on the future of Iraq not how we got into war shows he is avoiding partisan attacks. That is a "play to center" strategy. Most Americans are fed up with partisan bickering.

[silvermachine]

71. This is the turnoff:

<<<"This Democrat doesn't think we need to re-fight how we got into (the Iraq war).>>>

Really?
Then what would we fight for? Any principles at all?
We only want an honest look at it.
But that would open too many cans of worms on both sides of the aisle, though more so for the GOP.
Can he honestly mean that he doesn't care if we were lied to and (mis)led into a war that has killed thousands, impacted our economy negatively, divided an already polarized nation, and destroyed our credibility around the world?
The tactic that some Dems use by playing the "faulty intelligence" card to justify their pro-war votes is the flimsiest excuse ever. Why not just formally switch sides and join Bush and Cheney in blaming it all on the CIA? It's been well established at this point that the intelligence was massaged, cherry-picked, and distorted not by the CIA, but by this administration.
I think Warner has been a good governor here in VA (where I reside), but he's way off target with this remark.

[wanpete]

13. nothing new here...yawn... just what I expected from him...

what a disappointment to use the rethugs words against your own party. We simply can't have someone like this in '08. We need grit and raw passion to do what is right. he definitely appears to be a "finger to the wind" dem.

[Nite Owl]

14. No need to refight how we got into the

war? So lying and killing our children and innocent Iraqi's is ok with him cause that's what he is really saying. If he were ever to be President we could expect more of the same. Didn't really know very much about him before, now I do and no way would he get my vote.

[mike_c]

15. just another pro-war dem-- or a manipulative scumbag...

...seeking political cover for a presidential bid by endorsing murder and illegal occupation.

[wakeme2008]

17. Warner = DLC enough said... nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

74. Bill Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, and many other Democrats

have been associated with the DLC. And our nominee in 2008 may be as well.

[zara]

18. So he doesn't want support of The Nation and MoveOn....

No doubt, like Hillary, he thinks we on the left will have no where to turn and will just vote democrat anyway. : (

[Wesin04]

19. We must examine the past

in order not to repeat it. That's a well-known adage. We can't bury our heads and ignore how our leaders lied and manipulated the reasons they chose to go to war. Warner's comments on this are surprising and I can't support that position. It seems he jumped into this discussion because he had to, not because he knows what he's talking about. Leave our foreign policy, military strategy and national security to the man who knows it better than anyone-Wes Clark.

[insane_cratic_gal]

20. Scratching him off my list.

The person who speaks the truth, and isn't afraid to speak it, gets my vote. I promised myself I would not vote for a Candidate who continues to pussie foots around the issue because he or she is afraid of the image it sends(to both foreign and domestic critics).

I want a Dean, I want a voice, a hero, who doesn't cower or pander to image.

[silverstateD]

22. vote nader

you want a loser who will make you feel good about yourself

[insane_cratic_gal]

26. I vote my conscience

at the end of the day, it's me who has to live with me, now isn't it?

[MisterP]

55. as opposed to one who won't?

the "losing message" cryptocons howl about is the PRO-war one; about 60% of independents don't approve, and 85% of Dems

[chaumont58]

25. Fuck Warner and the horse he rode in on.

He has no more god damn sense about Iraq than Arizona qb Kurt Warner.

[Ravy]

27. At least he is in favor of withdrawal.

The Bush plan has NO END.

We cannot bring the troops home now, because we don't control any branch of government. The MOST we can hope for is to force the administration into some sort of plan that will bring the troops home.

Don't let them by with saying that a timetable is a bad idea, so they get by with providing no plan. It is a much wiser tactic to say, okay, no timetable, but give us the *criteria* that will be used to bring the troops home. Then, either work towards that criteria, or wait until we regain power and can do the right things.

[Sandpiper]

28. Now I know who not to vote for in the '08 primaries

Thanks Governor!

[adigal]

29. My pick is still Clark for president

or Gore if he runs. Forget this weak, kiss-butt guy.

[Tiggeroshii]

30. I don't care about Pres, he needs to be their Senator

He'll be in the Democratic caucus and that's all that matters. A moderate Democrat representing the Senate for Virginia is better than a die hard, crazy Republican George Allen representing Virginia in the Senate. We need that guy to run for Senate!

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

31. Gov. Warner Rejects Iraq Withdrawal Date

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801159.html


By Daniel Trotta
Reuters
Monday, November 28, 2005; 5:04 PM

<snip>

NEW YORK - The United States needs to set milestones for progress, not a firm withdrawal date, before it can leave Iraq, Virginia governor and prospective Democratic presidential candidate Mark Warner said on Monday.

"This Democrat doesn't think we need to re-fight how we got into (the Iraq war). I think we need to focus more on how to finish it," Warner said.

"To set an arbitrary deadline or specific date is not appropriate," he said. "... It is incumbent on the president to set milestones for what he believes will be the conclusion."

Warner outlined an Iraq policy during his appearance before New York's Asia Society, and said he might run for president after his term as governor expires in January. "I clearly want to be part of the national debate," he said.

<snip>

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

32. Considering Warner is being talked about as a possible contender

for 2008, it's good to know his position on Iraq.

[MercutioATC]

36. I agree. I'm not usually a one-issue person, but this tears it for me.

If somebody can't agree to set a timetable, they can't have my support.

[stepnw1f]

33. Bad Choice

He may have sealed his fate with my vote.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

34. Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed, frankly.

[soleft]

35. what a bold and visionary position

:sarcasm:

[Massacure]

37. Well, we have a wolf by the ears, what can we do with it?

It doesn't matter if hold onto it longer or let it go. We are in trouble either way.

[yourout]

38. He just fell about 3 notches on my list.

It reeks of saying anything to get elected.

[Maggie_May]

39. OH NO Warner

you aren't getting off that easy. I want to know why we got into this war. I want all the intelligence out that was hidden from us. Than maybe we can be honest with the American people and to the Iraqis. No doubt we want to know why. We are not that stupid Warner.

[roguevalley]

40. so, another bitch that hasn't got a clue. (or a stake, obviously)

I won't vote for someone who doesn't have at least Murtha's position as their primary focus.

[MisterP]

43. or a stake of a different sort

like Feinstein's husband

[skipos]

41. He said "focus more" not "only focus."

And I will take the minority DU opinion and agree with him.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and I don't expect to change anyone's mind. No debates from me! :hi:

[thebigidea]

42. and we should listen to his war advice, why, exactly?

is it based on his extensive military experience?

knowledge of insurgencies?

vast foreign policy experience?

a Tom Clancy novel he once read?

what is he basing his opinions on, and why should they be heeded?

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

44. Posted this as he may be running. Good to know where he

stands on this important issue.

Not that I'm defending Warner, but did Clinton have 'vast foreign policy experience' before he became president? Also, it's not a requirement to be in the military to run for president. I know times are different, but I'm just saying not to count someone out for the job because he/she doesn't have these credentials. On the other hand, Clark, actually, would be someone I'd like to see run again.

[thebigidea]

45. who cares about Clinton, he isn't running.

I'm just saying why should we listen to Warner about this? What gives him the insight that we should value? Does he have any extensive knowledge of the Middle East? Has he ever even travelled there?

Clark, of course, always deserves a close listen on these topics. He actually has some experience that applies to the situation.

But a southern governor? Honestly, what the fuck does he know about resistance movements in Iraq? Its like going to a Belgian tailor for expertise on Japanese Noh theatre.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

46. OK...Nice chattin' with you. Bye.

[thebigidea]

47. yeah, very nice being ignored and dismissed

Warner is going to have a lot more than that flung at him when he runs, it'd be good to have some answers ready.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

48. It seemed like you were trying to start a fight so I didn't want to

go there. We can have a friendly discussion, can't we? Didn't feel that way is all. Going back to watching the Daily Show.

[thebigidea]

50. how is that starting a fight? I thought they were reasonable questions.

And probably deserve answers, hopefully from someone else if you're not willing.

I have no dog in the '08 fight, I need to find out more about all of them. Hence the questions.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

51. Reasonable questions; just thought you sounded a bit

aggressive. I agree: it's good to find out about all the prospective candidates.

I had a couple of people "jump down my shit" on DU yesterday, so if I came off as being overly sensitive, I apologize.

[thebigidea]

54. well, apologies as well - I'm always nearly hysterical

And in text it probably comes off twice as mean without a smile to diffuse it a bit. Its the New York/New Jersey in me.

I think its just that I'm probably a bit sick of self appointed experts opining about what to do re: Iraq, when some of those experts have been consistently wrong for years, with no good track record or relevant experience.

[blm]

67. heheh....bigidea asks questions with humor and insight. NEVER boring.

Even some of us more boring folk always see the humor in his posts.

[nickshepDEM]

49. Re-post.

[WilliamPitt]

52. I'm gonna fucking BREAK something

:grr:

[Mojorabbit]

53. I am torn.

If we leave then Iraq will become a part of Iran with a Shite majority. Dems will be blamed for that.
Then again, I hate to see more american lives lost in a lost cause. Then again the people of Iraq deserve better as we have destroyed their country. It is a mess all around. Perhaps if the UN went in and we left but I don't see that happening.

[wisteria]

56. What does he know, really! He takes a trip or two and gets some

encouraging words from a General or two and now he is a go to source on Iraq. His answer is so---well Republican. I don't believe most Dem's are really calling for a timetable, more like achievement goals.This administration is clueless and he wants them to decide when the time is right.
Wow, and I don't like the way he answered the questions on whether we should continue with an investigation into how we got into this mess. Well, this is one Democrat, Governor Warner, that wants this administration held accountable for misleading the American public and leading us into this war. People have died and people's hard earned tax money has been paying for this war, along with many social services being trimmed and cut.It really rubs me the wrong way to see a fellow Democrat side with Bush.

[NuttyFluffers]

59. y'know, sometimes silence is golden.

if warner was truly savvy he would have realized that this would have been one of those times.

oh well, he opened his mouth, can't undo it now... definitely not someone i'd want as my leader.

[wisteria]

60. I've got to agree. I was shocked, I would expect it from Lieberman,

but not Warner. Disappointing indeed.

[ngGale]

61. He moved from my short list, to my ...

s*** list.:grr:

[darkism]

62. And DU turns on the guy, right on cue.

Somehow I'm not surprised.

[Pithy Cherub]

63. Warner turned on those serving in the military

and the American majority who oppose this moral travesty. It is an injustice of the highest magnitude to not examine the facts that caused America to squander its presitge. One time Governor Warner heaped the derision upon himself for being a complete novice on foreign affairs, military needs and stating a *plan* based on the Lieberman/GOP/DLC third way advocacy. He should have started by listening first to Clark, Murtha, Kerry, Odom et al, - the people with FP and military experience.

[jsamuel]

65. That was quick

X

[Generator]

70. So sad so worthless

Sorry people, but I watched a little fight on DU over what Amy Goodman said on Hardball about our precious Dems but couldn't comment as I didn't see it. But I'm convinced that Dems are worthless as they have sprinted away from Murtha fast as they can.

Watched Amy interview Seymour Hersh this morning on Democracy Now. Well..Murtha TALKS to the TOP generals. He knows more than Warner, or Kerry or Lieberman or probably BUSH. Seymour Hersh has the inside scoop on this whole stinking ball of wax. This war cannot be won militarily. This is what Murtha said. This is what the generals know. The rest of this is BULLSHIT POLITICS. I'm disgusted but not surprised. This war will go on for years and years and you can thank the Dems as much as anyone. UGH.

And if you watched Hersh you should be scared shitless. Bush believes this war is sent by GOD, that GOD has given him his blessing to continue it as long as it takes-and that everyone is AFRAID of Bush. You can now had Warner to the list. The reason the White House backpeddled on comments about Murtha is because they KNOW he talks to the top Generals. The top generals will not confront or talk to Bush or the higher ups.

And for those of you that say oh another bash dem thread-yeah baby you are right-they deserved to bashed and driven out of office until we can find somebody that cares more about truth than their own political future.

"This Democrat doesn't think we need to re-fight how we got into (the Iraq war). "

Add another name to the long list of those I would never vote for. Vichy Dems united anyone?

[muryan]

72. wow

he sure has my vote.. /end sarcasm

[gasperc]

73. need to learn not to say withdrawal date or timeline

he could make the same points by demanding milestone and benchmarks for the Iraqii army. Say within 6 months we must have more than 3 battlions trained, 80% of the country with electricity, with these goals we can then order the pentagon to begin a phased withdrawal plan.

So that way when 6 months pass, we can blow our tops and go what the fuck only 1 battalion has been trained? there is less than 50% electricity? Our troops can never leave with this kind of pathetic progress, elect me to change things so that benchmarks WILL GET MET AND WE CAN WITHDRAW TROOPS. Voters need this info so that they in their mind can judge Iraq progress or the lack there of.
I think Bush is in foo-foo land thinking God is guiding him through this and everything will be alright in the end, he is doing God's will. Meanwhile....Bagdad burns. Rove and the rest of the Cabal are probably waiting for the next homeland terrorist strike that they can blame on Iraq and whip up fresh support for the war. Meanwhile...the treasury is bankrupted.