Defying US, Chavez pushes for Spanish military deal

[cal04]

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said his government will go ahead with the purchase of Spanish military aircraft and naval vessels even as he accused the U.S. government of pressuring Madrid to halt the transaction. Chavez, closely allied to U.S. foe Cuba, has stepped up military spending this year with a slew of deals for Russian automatic rifles and helicopters, Brazilian aircraft and Spanish patrol ships and aircraft.

U.S. officials, who brand the leftist leader a threat to the region's stability, say they are worried some of the Venezuelan weapons could fall into the hands of Marxist Colombian rebels Washington calls terrorists. The U.S. ambassador to Spain said on Wednesday Washington was still considering whether to allow Spain to sell aircraft with U.S. technology to Venezuela. But Chavez said Spain's Defense Minister, Jose Bono, would arrive in Venezuela next week to sign the deal.

"Next Monday Don Pepe Bono will be with us signing the contracts for the planes and the boats," he said in a speech broadcast late Wednesday. Since Chavez's election in 1998, relations between oil producer Venezuela and its main petroleum client, the United States, have deteriorated steadily. Chavez has also downgraded military cooperation with the United States and the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.

Spain plans to sell 1.3 billion euros of equipment to Venezuela, including four coastal patrol ships, four corvettes, 10 C-295 transport planes and two maritime surveillance planes. The aircraft Spain wants to sell to Venezuela have 50 to 60 percent U.S. components and require a U.S. export license. Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has built up friendly relations with Chavez. Bono has not scheduled a visit to Caracas but that could change, a Defense Ministry spokesman said on Wednesday.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-11-24T150333Z_01_KRA453694_RTRUKOC_0_US-VENEZUELA-ARMS.xml

[IndianaGreen]

1. "Defying the US" as if the US were the master race

and Latin America were its vassals. How laughable to hear such nonsense!

[leftchick]

2. you wrote just what I was thinking!

The USA! Rulers of the WORLD! NOT...

[hwmnbn]

4. The neo-cons would have us believe...

that because of our military capability, we are the supreme power.

The U.S. cannot even solve its own basic problems of poverty, health care, and intolerance much less solve the rest of the world's problems. We USED TO have moral authority, now we just have self-righteous delusions.

The idea we are somehow masters is laughable. The rest of the world considers us dangerous, but certainly not superior. Our president is a chimp. We'd be the laughingstock of civilization if our actions weren't so tragic.

[aquart]

9. the shortsighted neocons believed the world would sit still

and do nothing while we brandished out military superiority and took whatever we wanted.

turns out, like everything else neocons believe, not to be true. our former allies have been rushing to form alliances that do not include us, in the nervous belief that the day is coming when the rest of the world will have to stomp the rampaging United States and put it out of its misery.

[calimary]

20. The law of unintended consequences - obviously overlooked by the

PNAC pirates. They assumed everything would go as planned and that other peoples and nations around the world would simply bow to our superiority. Well, just because they got a lot of gullible Americans, calculating media types, and demoralized opponents to bow like that doesn't mean the rest of the world operates in the same way. I think they forgot that, or simply didn't acknowledge that such a variable could ever actually be in play. But the rest of the world doesn't operate exactly the way we do. Nor does the rest of the world share the same outlook, the same priorities, the same reactions, the same agendas.

And of course, when you select and install a "leader" as your mouthpiece and your officially designated "face" to the world - who hates to travel and doesn't have a lot of mileage on his passport, what do you expect? bush is certainly not going to be reminding ANYBODY in his cabal that other peoples in other nations and cultures will NOT react or respond the way we do, or that their mindsets are even remotely similar. You LEARN stuff when you travel to other countries and other continents - and REALLY get out into the cultures in the cities and villages. He does NONE of those things. He is isolated in his sheltered little protective bubble, never does any sort of walkabouts anywhere, he's completely incurious, has no interest in learning how ANYBODY else lives or thinks (remember - "who cares what YOU think?") and just assumes that whatever works for him in his own little myopic, single-purpose universe is the natural order of things for everyone everywhere, across the board and across the globe. If you "lead" a nation with THAT mindset, you "lead" that nation straight over a cliff.

I think that's one of many things that makes Clinton, on the other hand, so effective, and so highly-regarded around the world. He IS curious about other cultures and other lands. He DOES go out and about, shaking hands with people on the street, doing the meet-and-greet with lots of people outside the power circles and the closed, invitation-only embassy parties and the sanitized photo-ops. He likes to read and listen and look around and ask questions and taste things and go out and touch and closely observe stuff. And it informs his general outlook and perspective on the world. THAT is one key part of his powerful allure. bush sits and waits on his imperial ass for people to come to him. Clinton makes for the front door and goes out to meet people where they're apt to be waiting for him. bush's idea of reaching out is with a closed fist - with maybe a single finger extended (you know, the "my way or the highway" finger). Clinton's idea is more like an extended open hand.

No wonder we got along with everybody better when Clinton was in charge - than we do now. :eyes:

[Mairead]

10. "The U.S. cannot even solve its own basic problems"

Cannot? What makes you think our rulers even want to? I honestly don't believe there's any 'cannot' about it.

[hwmnbn]

12. good point...

If we had the will, we could do so much more to take care of the pressing needs here at home.

It will take a major political upheaval to force the politicians to do the right thing for the people, not the corporations.

The Venezuelan model is what makes this administration nervous. If the U.S. citizenry starts ordering our public servants to do the right thing, we may get somewhere.

[Mairead]

15. "The Venezuelan model is what makes this administration nervous."

Indeed. The biggest thing that's saved our predators so far is that there hasn't been a good example of a better way--the predators wiped them out before they could get going! But Hugo might not be such easy prey.

[rman]

48. Today's events are not fundamentally different then what went before

It's just that it's more overt now, so that more people notice what's going on (and needless to say it stokes many people the wrong way).

If you look at where natural resources are, where they go and who's involved in that, it'll be clear that the US indeed is "master" of the world. Has been for a long time, and it's only gotten worse.

As to the US's power: the rest of the world laughing at the US won't prevent it from dropping bombs on them. Not that i advocate such, just an observation.

[adigal]

54. Chavez signed a deal to send oil to Massachusetts

for the poor folk there, at like 40% under market. It was on NPR last week.

[Andromeda]

34. See post #18...

"One administration does not reflect the values of america or its accomplishments." Pavulon.

We should be concerned about any country buying arms, especially a country that is hostile to the US.

[neweurope]

3. "considering whether to allow Spain to sell aircraft"

Now that's quoting the ambassador, your representative, no less:
"The U.S. ambassador to Spain said on Wednesday Washington was still considering whether to allow Spain to sell aircraft with U.S. technology to Venezuela."

Who the ... do Americans think they are? "Allow"? I'm sputtering with rage when I read stuff like this. I'm not surprised, though; after all the new EU "terra" laws we have now because of pressure by the USA...

My only consolation is that everybody falls sooner or later. Countries take a while longer - but come down they will.

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[MarsThe Cat]

25. it was probably a condition under which the planes were sold to spain-

that's how those things usually go.

[Bacchus39]

29. that is correct

that is to prevent a situation like say selling planes to India who turn around and then sell to China.

[rman]

49. So much for "Free Trade"

Goes to show what a hollow term that is.

[Judi Lynn]

5. How twisted is this? He defies Bush if he attempts to protect his country

from _Bush's conspicuous hostility, and very possible direct physical agression. _Bush has tried to bully him by conducting war games in the ocean just off Aruba, not to mention involving our own military in the coup attempt:

The London Guardian reported that last June, American military attaches had been in touch with members of the Venezuelan military to examine the possibility of a coup," It quoted journalist, Wayne Madsen, a former Naval and National Security Agency (NSA) intelligence officer as saying that U.S. Navy ships "provided signals intelligence and communications jamming support" to the Venezuelan military during the coup attempt. (23)
(snip)

http://www.globalresearch.org/view_article.php?aid=506926235

[More Than A Feeling]

6. If we don't want our technology falling into hands we don't like

perhaps we shouldn't sell so much of it.

[1932]

8. Also interesting to see globalization used as a sword (and shield).

Globalization means that 40-60 percent of these machines have US techology....which gives the US the ability to, contractually, restrict the free trade in the goods.

If Spain only included Spanish technology (or didn't agree to the contractual restrictions on trade), they could sell to whomever they wanted.

[Igel]

11. That's precisely the discussion. n/t

[soda]

7. we already have F16s the US sold us

Zapatero said the arms deal signed in Caracas "is not of an offensive nature because the objective is transporting people and watching the coasts."
Hugo Chávez, claimed that the arms Zapatero sold him "will transport poor people in the interior of Venezuela, and food and medicine. Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister, for this support for our social labor. We will use them in the war against poverty and misery, since they are transport planes, not for combat. We already have F-16s the US sold us." http://www.spainherald.com/494.html

[SpiralHawk]

13. Compare percent of Venezuela budget spent on military to percent

of US budget spent on military. That would be interesting. I'd bet several slices of leftover pie (puh-lease), that our spending percentage is far greater than Venezuelas. Of course, in BushCo parlance they are "little Brown people" and have no right to defend themselves against our Elite NeoCon War Machine.

[Mairead]

14. Keep the pie--it's a sucker bet

I don't even have to look it up to know that Hugo isn't spending 50% of V's budget on the MIC the way our rulers are.

[6th Borough]

68. Compare US military spending w/ the combined GLOBAL amount (in US$)

If I'm not mistaken, we (the United States) have a larger annual military..."ahem"...defense budget then every other nation in the world combined.

Of course, there are barely any other countries that possess a single Super-carrier (not of the cute British, angled short-deck variety), let alone a half dozen or so task-forces.

Very few counties own a single nuclear sub...how many have over 100 operating? Of which, how many are as advanced as, say, the Seawolf class? If it's overkill to the extent that WE only commission a grand total of 3 boats...well, just imagine how much overkill we possess.

We churn out modern 5th generation offensive-oriented aircraft before most of the world phase out 2nd generation equipment.

Just an example: If Israel were ever to drop a nuclear bomb (via air), it would most likely be falling from an F-4 Phantom. Modified, sure; still, they would place their trust to perform the most essential of operations on an airframe last seen attacking ground targets in Vietnam...in the mid 60's.

We replace shit with other shit before the first shit looses its new (insert vehicle here) smell.

I doubt I will live to see the day that both the MilGovCorp de-tangled and the US decides to pull back from it doctrine of forward deployment.

God forbid the defense dept. actually adopt a policy of defense.
At least our founding fathers didn't stoop to euphemisms; there were the departments of Treasury, State, and War.

[Pavulon]

16. Avionics

Not my field but I know we sold very advanced equipment to spain under the nato treaty.

I would think the concern would be for transfer of technology relating to communications equipment, etc.

The "maritime surveillance" plane sounds like awacs. Not sure. The rest of the equipment doesn't sound like much.

Funny part is Venez. is our 3rd largest source of oil.

[GoldenOldie]

17. "Defying US" Way to go Hugo!

Comments from this Administration and the talking motor mouths who still keep spouting "US has the best military in the world," "US has the best health care in the world." US has the best education in the world," had better wake up and smell the coffee.

While Hugo Chavez, a man of the people, is lifting his people up, our Puppet Leader and his bad of War Profiteers are destroying "US has the best...." While Hugo Chavez has taken idle land, idle factories and turned them over to "the people" to farm and produce incomes for their families and their Nation. While doing all this Hugo Chavez is aiding the poorest and homeless of the US...Katrina and the Northeast.

While Georgie, Cheney, DeLay, Falwell, Robertson rob from the "least of thee," Hugo Chavez is rising to become a man of the people and the world.

[Pavulon]

18. Not my Cup of tea

I have little knowledge of Venezuelan politics.

I do tend to view all politicians with a careful eye.

If I had to have a transplant or neuro surgery I would much rather have it done at hopkins.

One administration does not reflect the values of america or its accomplishments.

I would assume that petro chemical is the single source of the cash to fund their military purchases.

Anytime a politician does something I always wonder why?

[Andromeda]

31. Thanks for injecting some common sense...

into this discussion. You are right, of course, that just because Chavez is "standing up to Bush" this somehow makes him a benevolent leader.

We should be careful what we wish for when we cheer on Mr Chavez.

Mr Chavez's motives are unclear to me. He is a popular leader who stirs up the people by appealing to their emotions and prejudices.

I believe it's better to take a "wait and see" attitude when it comes to the leader of any country, especially in South America where it has been so volatile in the past.

[K-W]

35. You say "wait and see" but you arent looking.

Should we wait until after the US overthrows the Venezualan government to figure out whether they deserved to be overthrown or not? What exactly are we waiting for? Chavez wasnt elected yesterday, its time to see what is going on. Learn what is happening, what Chavez is doing, the good the bad, and more importantly look at the uncertain.

Having some hope for Venezuala doesnt mean one is ignoring the odds stacked against it, and wishing for a progressive democracy in Venezuala is not a wish one has to be careful with.

[1932]

39. Excellent point. April 2002 was as long as anyone needed to wait to see

what was going on in Venezuela.

[Andromeda]

40. You missed my point.

Bush has already tried to overthrow Chavez and it didn't work out too well. Now Chavez hates us because of Bush--I mean, he REALLY hates us.

I know what is happening and I've already come to the conclusion that it's going to take a lot of "pr" to get back in Chavez's good graces.

Chavez is the elected leader but time will tell if he's the right leader for Venezuela.

We really don't have any say in what he does and I'd like to know if we have anything to worry about.

[oblivious]

42. What gave you the idea that "Chavez REALLY hates us"?

He seems to have bent over backwards to make it clear that he has nothing against the American people but that he has no respect for Bush.

[K-W]

50. No, I really didnt.

I just addressed a different point in that post.

Bush has already tried to overthrow Chavez and it didn't work out too well. Now Chavez hates us because of Bush--I mean, he REALLY hates us.

You are claiming that Bush's antagonization of Chavez has led Chavez to hate America, this is blatently untrue. Chavez has expressed nothing but friendship towards the people of the US. Venezuala is making deals with local officials in the US to supply discount heating oil to the needy in the US, is that an act of hatred?

I know what is happening and I've already come to the conclusion that it's going to take a lot of "pr" to get back in Chavez's good graces.

I doubt US plutocrats and Hugo Chavez will ever be in terribly good graces with each other, but if we were to throw the bums out of office, no doubt Venezuala would be happy to forge a new diplomatic relationship.

Chavez is the elected leader but time will tell if he's the right leader for Venezuela.

I doubt such a simple analysis will prove meaningful.

We really don't have any say in what he does and I'd like to know if we have anything to worry about.

Nor should we have any say in what he does, and if you want to learn about Venezuala, go ahead and do so.

[High Plains]

66. Anything to worry about?

What, a Venezuelan invasion of Miami?

[rman]

46. You question but don't investigate -

what's the basis for your opinion?

[newyawker99]

19. Hi Pavulon!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Pavulon]

21. Thanks (eom)

[foflappy]

22. nice way to "help the poor" Hugo!

I am sure this will help out all the poor people he claims to serve..

[thebigidea]

23. what nonsense. As if you can't do both.

as if a few old weapons somehow cancels out everything he's done.

[killbotfactory]

27. Helping the poor is meaningless if you can't defend yourself

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. Damn right! Countries shouldn't have armed forces!

Except the US of A, whose shit doesn't smell, of course.

[pinniped]

24. Wouldn't Spain be defying the US, too?

?

[TankLV]

26. Thank god for Chavez!

Nothing more needs to be said.

[happydreams]

30. Chavez is good for America. He won't let tyrants

go quietly about their business. The US will have to get better leadership to deal with the multi-polar world emerging.

[Andromeda]

32. How's that?

"Chavez is good for America. He won't let tyrants go quietly about their business."

In what way is Chavez "good" for America. Bush made him angry so now he's targeting the United States---where we live. And that's good?

[K-W]

36. Some of us think of America as the people, not the President.

Yes, Chavez and Bush dont get along very well. That doesnt mean Chavez doesnt get along with America. Chavez gets along with any Americans who are interested in having a real dialogue with him. The only people he doesnt get along with are those who hate him because he resists thier economic interests.

And what on earth does targeting the United States mean?

Tell the poor people in Boston and the Bronx (and who knows where else) who won't have to choose between food and heat this winter because of the Venezualan government that Venezuala is bad for America.

[1932]

38. Chavez is good for America for a couple reasons.

I for one think it's important for Americans that an alternative model to neoliberalism and globalization is proved successful, especially one that shows that growing the GDP shouldn't be a goal, but a consequence of development which is focused on increaseing well-being (in the form of literacy, health care, and decent employment).

Globalization has only served to make the powerful more powerful while everyone else either treads water or sinks into deeper misery. Concentrating even more wealth in the hands of oil companies, for example, is not good for Americans. It just gives them more power to impose on Americans executives like Cheney and Bush. So, not letting Venezuela's resources empower Bush and Cheney, but empower people in Venezuela also empowers working Americans on a very superficial level -- it simply means more money for people and less for CEOs. And on a deeper level, it sets an example that many other countries might follow, and that will really make a difference in the plight of working people everywhere.

In another sense he's good for America because the "targeting" of America he has really done has been targeting low income communities in America to receive cheap oil.

Also, he calls Americans the people of Martin Luther King and he says great things about JFK. So, it's great that he helps Americans think of themselves within a progressive framework.

So, really, what's there not to like about him?

[Andromeda]

41. Anybody who likes JFK...

and Martin Luther King is okay in my book. :)

[Solon]

43. Another thing to point out about Chavez and his supporters...

Is the use of language when talking, either on the street, or in stump speeches. One of the common refrains I heard are things like this, USians(citizens of the United States) do NOT equal Bush. In many of Chavez's speeches, he opposes our government, but not the people, that is how he says it, because USians are Americans too.

Sort of a cultural note, here in the States, we refer to ourselves as Americans, in Latin America they also do so, but to refer to Inhabitant of North and South America, in its entirety. To them we are USians, but also Americans, does that make sense? Kinda like the French are also European, I guess.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

44. I gave up on that argument long ago. It makes perfect sense to me.

But lots and lots of people don't seem to get it, including Latin Americans. Your French analogy explains exactly what the rest of us Americans consider ourselves. Whenever I try to explain it to people. They don't seem to get it. Whenever I use the word "estadounidense" I get weird looks as if it's something new or unusual. Anyway it's good to see people that actually get it.

[Solon]

51. I even forgot to complete the analogy...

It was supposed to say: "All French are European but not all Europeans are French". Glad you got it. Lately I have been watching many Documentaries and films about Venezuela and free trade that were produced by and for, Latin Americans. What struck me about the grassroots activists and organizers in countries like Venezuela, that were interviewed, were their opposition to Bush and Neo-Liberals in their own countries, while at the same time, saying they are in solidarity with USians because we are victimized by those same groups too. Not to mention that Chavez and his supporters don't seem to limit the struggle to the Americas either, with mentions of Africa, Southeast Asia, etc. on the list, so to speak.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

52. It's like Robert Baer (author of See No Evil) said in a

Morning Sedition interview. While he was in the CIA he talked to kids in a Hezbollah run school. These kids basically told him that they hated the way the US conducted it's foreign policy. Yet they loved pop culture and really did not express hatred towards us as individuals. It's an interesting phenomenon.

But seriously though. Why do you hate America?..... :evilgrin:

[Solon]

53. Don't worry...

I don't hate America, I just don't like its leaders, hell, I didn't vote for them so they aren't MY leaders. I'm not really keen on those 39 percent or so that still approve of them. :)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

55. Our exchange here reminded me of something.

There was a Simpson's episode. In which the Mayor decides to scapegoat immigrants for the town's problems. They come up with a ballot initiative to deport all immigrants. Moe the bartender is shown holding a sign that reads. "United States for United Statetians". That was f'ing hilarious.

[Solon]

57. LOL, I remember this one time...

OK, I used to work as an Ice Cream man, and on this one street was a Puerto Rican family, always bought the kids ice cream, and big tippers too! Anyways, so I served them, then was stopped up the street by a guy with his daughter, he asked me something to the effect: "I see you sell to those immigrants(insert ignorant USian joke here) all the time, does it annoy you that they don't speak American properly?" OK, first, I don't think this guy exchanged more than two words with his neighbors, so he had no clue that they actually speak English quite well, and apparently he was ignorant of not only where they are from, but, apparently, what language HE speaks. How stupid can some people be?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

58. Oh man I've heard it all before.

I especially like when somebody in our office asks how to spell a word. I spell it for them. Then they turn around and in a very inconspicuous way ask the "anglo" guy nearby.

I do get asked about green cards all the time. Or how I migrated up here. The answer always baffles them. I'll tell them how I crossed the gigantic Atlantic Ocean bridge that connects Florida to Puerto Rico. People actually believe me on this one. Or I just tell them the truth which is. I bought a plane ticket got on a plane..... and oh yeah I did a change of address at the post office. This story is not very glamorous though.

[Solon]

59. Just remember...

To most USians on the Mainland, any state or territory that you can't drive to with an RV is "overseas" and therefor foreign. :)

[rman]

45. "targeting the US" - how's that?

[Judi Lynn]

47. People will arrive at odd conclusions when they refuse to keep up

with the news, right?

There is absolutely nothing to lead anyone to that conclusion who has been keeping track of what has been happening since _Bush initiated hostilities long ago, before he used taxpayers' money to finance the coup on Hugo Chavez.

It's typical of rightwingers who insist the you are unpatriotic if you don't like the right-wing idiot in the White House to claim that administrations which he attacks hate America. Crude, stupid, perverse truth twisting.

They have too much time on their hands.

[Megahurtz]

61. "Chavez is targeting the United States"???

:wtf:

Would you mind telling me how you came to that conclusion?

[oblivious]

62. Will you please explain that statement - "he's targeting the US"

[Judi Lynn]

63. Maybe the poster means he's targeting the poor here for assistance!

in New Orleans:

Venezuela Offers $1M, Oil, Food and Equipment for U.S. Victims of Hurricane Katrina

Thursday, Sep 01, 2005 Print format
Send by email

By: Cleto Sojo - Venezuelanalysis.com

Sept 1, 2005 (Venezuelanalysis.com).- CITGO Petroleum Corporation has pledged a $1 million donation towards Hurricane Katrina relief efforts, the company’s President and CEO Félix Rodríguez announced yesterday through a press release.

Rodríguez said this donation had the full support of the company’s parent organization, the Venezuelan state oil company Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA), as well as Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez.
(snip)

CEO Rodríguez traveled yesterday to Lake Charles, Louisiana where he met with local officials and visited the city’s Civic Center, which has been turned into a full-service shelter for storm refugees.

Rodríguez presented the local chapter of the American Red Cross, in charge of operations at the shelter, with a separate $25,000 donation to assist the organization in its efforts at the center.
(snip)

Sources at the Venezuelan Embassy in Washington DC, told Venezuelanalysis.com that apart from the million dollars in monetary assistance, Venezuela is offering two mobile hospital units, each capable of assisting 150 people, 120 specialists in rescue operations, 10 water purifying plants, 18 electricity generators of 850 KW each, 20 tons of bottled water, and 50 tons of canned food.
(snip)

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1743

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Or maybe the poster's referring to the oil Venezuela delivered last week to Massachusetts, after being contacted by Democratic Congressman William Delahunt, and Joseph Kennedy, etc.:

Venezuela sending cheap oil to Massachusetts
Two nonprofit groups sign deal to aid low-income residents

Wednesday, November 23, 2005 Posted: 0146 GMT (0946 HKT)



Joseph P. Kennedy II of Citizens
Energy Corp. and other officials
deliver oil Tuesday to Quincy
residents.

QUINCY, Massachusetts (AP) -- Thousands of low-income Massachusetts residents will receive discounted home heating oil this winter under an agreement signed Tuesday with Venezuela, whose government is a political adversary of the Bush administration.

Citgo Petroleum Corp., a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, will supply oil at 40 percent below market prices.

It will be distributed by two nonprofit organizations, Citizens Energy Corp. and the Massachusetts Energy Consumers Alliance.

The agreement gives President Hugo Chavez's government standing as a provider of heating assistance to poor U.S. residents at a time when U.S. oil companies have been reluctant to do so and Congress has failed to expand aid in response to rising oil prices.
(snip/...)

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/11/22/venezuela.us.fuel.ap/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's probably what the poster meant!

[oblivious]

64. Yes, helping the poor seems to drive right-wingers into a frenzy.

They'll excuse torture and terror (if it's done by their side), but not helping the poor, by God. Gotta draw a line somewhere.

[Andromeda]

33. Delete

[oblivious]

37. I think it's obvious Chavez intends to invade the US with these arms.

And take away Americans' freedom of choice by forcing free education and medicine upon them, maybe even cheap gas. There's no limit to the evil this man promotes. I don't know what more proof anyone needs.

Oh, almost forgot: :sarcasm:

[Javaman]

56. But it's okay for us to sell chems to Saddam and weaps to the Taliban...

I loath and hate moron*

[Megahurtz]

60. "Washington was still considering

whether to allow Spain to sell aircraft with U.S. technology to Venezuela"???

:wtf:

It's Spain's prerogative to sell what is now theirs to whomever they want!

Seriously, who the fuck do they think they are????

[Judi Lynn]

65. (Defense Minister) Bono signs controversial military deal in Venezuela

Bono signs controversial military deal in Venezuela
US government said arms sale may destabilize region

El Pais Spain | M. ELKIN
Madrid

Defense Minister José Bono traveled to the Venezuelan capital on Monday to sign the contract with President Hugo Chávez that will send Spanish-made military planes and boats to the South American country for €1.7 billion.

The deal, which was announced in February and has been fiercely criticized by the US government, involves the sale of four corvettes, four coastal patrol boats, 10 transport planes and two maritime surveillance aircraft. The United States is concerned about a military build-up by Chávez, who is an ally of Cuba and has frequently attacked Washington's foreign policy.

Today, Bono will meet in Bogotá with Colombian President Álvaro Uribe, the main US ally in the region, to explain the details of the deal, sources at the Defense Ministry said.

Bono responded yesterday to US opposition by defending Spain's right as a sovereign nation to conduct deals such as the one with Caracas. "There is no international embargo and, again, I invoke the only empire that exists - the law," Bono said. "The Spanish government has obligations with Spanish companies. I am not willing to recognize that there are chosen people who are above others."
(snip/...)

http://www.iht.com/getina/files/292760.html

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

67. What did the Minister of the Interior The Edge have to say

about it. OK bad joke, I couldn't resist.

[fujiyama]

69. I'm impressed

that the Spanish government is not really backing down either.

It shows how seriously other countries take us. Venezuela is now able to flex its muscles in a world where oil is becoming more expensive.