Castro Meets With Cuba's Catholic Leaders

[Judi Lynn]

Castro Meets With Cuba's Catholic Leaders

By Associated Press
November 17, 2005, 9:34 PM EST

HAVANA -- Fidel Castro met with top leaders of Cuba's Roman Catholic church to mark 70 years of diplomatic ties with the Vatican, the island's official media reported Thursday.

Castro met Wednesday night with Cardinal Jaime Ortega -- Cuba's top Catholic churchman -- all of the island's bishops, and the Vatican's diplomatic representative here, Papal Nuncio Msgr. Luigi Bonazzi, the Communist Party daily Granma reported.

During a dinner, Castro recalled the late Pope John Paul II's historic 1998 visit to Cuba, praising the pontiff's "wonderful way of seeing and understanding the problems of the world today," the newspaper said in a front page story.

Communist Cuba became officially atheist in the years after the 1959 revolution that brought Castro to power. But the government removed references to atheism in the constitution more than a decade ago and allowed religious believers to join the Communist Party.
(snip/...)

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-cuba-vatican,0,3456644.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[IndianaGreen]

1. The late Pope was unhappy about Cuba's religious freedoms

The Pope preferred the bad old days in which the Catholic Church's influence in Cuban society was unchallenged by anyone, particularly those pesky Santeria followers.

The Communist Party in Cuba and the US, as the Bolsheviks under Lenin did, do not bar people of faith from membership. As Lenin said, religion is a private matter as far as the state is concerned.

[robcon]

4. Any evidence, or was it just a smear, Indiana Green?

The Pope preferred the bad old days in which the Catholic Church's influence in Cuban society was unchallenged by anyone, particularly those pesky Santeria followers.

That's so unsupported it's seems like a lie, to me.

[Bridget Burke]

6. Who needs evidence?

Syncretic religions flourished in the New World's Catholic colonies. Santeria & others in Cuba, Voudoun in Haiti, a whole galaxy of faiths in Brazil. The African gods disguised themselves & were lost in the crowds of saints (Santos). The goddesses manifested themselves as aspects of the Virgin Mary--just as they had in Europe. Although Santeria arose among the slaves, people with European blood soon participated. And European occultism (often rooted in the Middle East or Asia, of course) influenced the new religions. Still, all the worshipers were also Roman Catholic; the faiths co-existed.

In the Protestant English-speaking colonies, Christianity was more unyielding. African practices & faiths were suppressed more efficiently. Early slave owners denied the Christian faith to their "property." Could they continue to own Christian slaves? African-American tradition in Southern Louisiana spoke of Papa Legba, Baron Carrefour--the Lord of the Crossroads. The slaves who'd lost the old knowledge--& their descendants--went to the Crossroads & found only The Devil.

I could find no anti-Santeria statements from JPII. But I did find this picture, from his funeral mass in Havana.

[Kralizec]

8. Exactly. The evidence of Roman Catholic influence in Latin America is

overwhelming. But I must admit, Latin America, in general, is largely ignored by Americans. The only time they hear about it is during political unrest (usually caused by you know who) or something to do with drugs.

The Church has played such a heavy, heavy role in Latin America. I don't know if the Pope ever said that word for word, but no doubt the Church in general wanted Cuba to be a Catholic influenced State.

[Bridget Burke]

10. Adherants to Santeria are Catholic-influenced.

In fact, they ARE Roman Catholics--who also have other beliefs.

This particular thread began with the outright statement that Pope JPII was against Santeria. Backed up by no evidence.

[IndianaGreen]

12. "70% of Cubans practice some form of Santeria"

Although 85% of Cubans said they were Catholics when Mr Castro took power in 1959, today it is estimated that only 40% to 45 % identify with the religion. Only 5% are practising Catholics.

Catholicism also has been pushed back by rival religions, most seriously Santeria.

<snip>

There are estimates that up to 70% of Cubans practice some form of Santeria. It is even rumoured that Mr Castro himself could be a believer.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/pope_in_cuba/47667.stm

[IndianaGreen]

11. I've been to Cuba, and the Catholic Church did enjoy privilege there

Roman Catholicism was the official religion of the state, as it was and remains in some countries in Latin America.

Castro's 'secular Cuba' returns to religious roots
By Richard Shumate
CNN Interactive writer

(CNN) -- For nearly five centuries Cuba, like most of the rest of Latin America, was predominately Roman Catholic, a religion brought by the country's Spanish forebears.

Though the church was never as thoroughly ingrained in the culture as in, say, Pope John Paul II's native Poland, it provided the schools where many Cubans were educated, and its hierarchy and priests held a degree of influence in Cuban affairs.

But all that began to change in 1959 when Fidel Castro took over.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/cuba.pope/catholicism/

As The Pope Visits, Cuba's Other Priests Deserve Some Attention

By Kimi Eisele

Date: 01-20-98

Pope John Paul's visit to Cuba has stimulated quantities of comment on Communism and Catholicism, secularism and spirituality. But this tidy duality ignores an important part of everyday life in Cuba, a set of religious observance that has apparently flourished despite government decree. PNS correspondent Kimi Eisele, who reports on a first-hand encounter with Santeria, is working toward a master's degree in geography and Latin American studies at the University of Arizona.

As Pope John Paul visits Cuba this week, I can't help but think of what the priests will think -- not the Catholic priests, but the priests who represent a religion that has survived, and thrived, on the island for almost two centuries.

I mean the "babalaos," the "fathers of secrets," the santeros -- high priests in the Santeria Order.

Santeria combines the ancient Yoruba religion with Catholicism. And for all the celebration about the "return" of Catholicism to Cuba, it is Santeria that has actually preserved bits and pieces of the religion over the years since Fidel Castro proclaimed Cuba atheist -- though maybe not in a way the pope and his followers would appreciate.

http://www.pacificnews.org/jinn/stories/4.02/980120-santeria.html

[Judi Lynn]

14. Thanks for the references, IndianaGreen. Very worthwhile. n/t

[Mika]

15. That CNN link is half full-o-shit.

The priests were never "forced out" of Cuba by the Cuban government. They left because little money was to be made under the new socialized education system created in Cuba. By law, education had to be provided free of charge to all. If those charitable Catholic priests/teachers wanted to they could have stayed and provided free education, but, they chose monetary rewards instead of heavenly rewards for "charitable" work.

[Judi Lynn]

16. Thanks for making the point. Same direction Bush is trying to take

the U.S. now, heading toward making private schools first to get paid, while draining the resources for public school educations.

Cuba DID have a massive problem which the revolution corrected. You are surely right on that.



New reading students waving giant pencils to publicize
participation in reading programs open to EVERYONE.

[1932]

13. Graham Greene's book about Omar Torijos has a an anecdote about

the last Pope's attitude towards liberation theologists. The current pope, IIUC, tried to end the career of Leonardo Boff, a liberation theologist.

[rpannier]

2. Interesting

They've had diplomatic ties longer with the Vatican longer than the US has.

[xchrom]

3. shhhh! -- damn it!

you weren't supposed to notice -- much less put it in print.

[brainshrub]

5. Huh? You mean there was a time when the US didn't have diplomatic ties?

That's odd. Why not?

When did diplomatic ties open?

[rpannier]

7. Reagan

He was the first president to have an ambassador to the Vatican. Too much fundie opposition.
BTW The first ambassador was a Demo Mayor from Boston -- I think it was Flynn.

[Bridget Burke]

9. The US established Full Diplomatic Relations with the Vatican in 1984

Here's the long story--beginning with Pope Pius VI's request to name a Bishop for the new country. He asked Ben Franklin, who asked President Washington. The answer was yes. (Of course, there had long been bishops in what is now the USA--but they were part of New Spain in those days.)

http://vatican.usembassy.gov/Policy/speeches/speech.asp?id=sp020007