Governor (Jeb Bush) preparing plan to save vouchers (defying FL SupremeCt)

[seafan]

Published November 17, 2005

TALLAHASSEE - Gov. Jeb Bush is preparing a backup plan to keep voucher students in private schools in the event the state Supreme Court finds his original voucher plan unconstitutional.

The idea would be to provide tax credits to corporations that give the students scholarships, which would eliminate the direct transfer of public money to the private schools, the majority of which are religious schools.

--snip

The Supreme Court heard arguments in a case challenging the original voucher program in June. Opponents say the Florida Constitution requires the state to provide a quality education and that it can't pass on that responsibility to private schools. They also argue that the Constitution doesn't allow state money to be spent on religious schools.

In preparing a new proposal, the governor is simply trying to get around the Constitution, said Ron Meyer, a lawyer representing voucher opponents.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/11/17/news_pf/State/Governor_preparing_pl.shtml

[superconnected]

1. Now why am I sure he's doing this for the wealthiest families kids

and not poor kids to get into private schools.

[Judi Lynn]

2. These MEpublicans have no respect for the "Rule of Law" whatsoever

when it stands between them and their greedy hearts' desires. I hope this blows up in Porky's face.

[seafan]

3. These guys only know one speed...... full throttle off the cliff.

This was in the St. Pete Times this morning:

Poll: Floridians down on Bush as president, brother as candidate
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/11/17/State/Poll__Floridians_down.shtml

[Lochloosa]

4. Nov. 2006 cannot get here quick enough....

http://www.jimdavis2006.com/

[VegasWolf]

12. yes...but I thought that in 2004 enough people had seen the light - i was

wrong.

:toast:

[Judi Lynn]

5. I can't wait until the American people can throw these yucks a goodbye

party. CAN'T WAIT!



From one triumph to another to another.



Bye bye, Jeb and George, bye bye.

[AzDar]

6. Another Bushie who thinks he's above the law, eh? This family is a CANCER!

[Toots]

7. Money Laundering exactly like Delay and the rest of GOP does.

Illegal who cares we'll just skirt the law so we get our way even though we know it is illegal.....Do they even know the meaning of the word ethics?

[napi21]

8. I thought Fl didn't have a State income tax??? How can Jeb

tax credits?

[Chan790]

9. There are other taxes

property tax
sales tax
luxury tax
windfall tax

I'm pretty sure there is a profit tax in FL. Basically...business gets taxed for making money, you don't. Not very fiscally conservative, is it?

[toopers]

10. I'll probably get flamed but I agree with school vouchers.

If the local system does not live up to the appropriate standards, then people should be able to move their children to a better school, without having to try and afford a home in the upscale neighborhoods.

[gratuitous]

11. Well, there's theory and then there's practice

In theory, yes, a voucher system gives folks a chance to shop around for the best school for their little darlings. In practice, however, a voucher system often turns out to be a public subsidy of private schools, run by and for an elite or a committed group of ideologues.

Here's a hare-brained idea: Instead of spending over a billion dollars a day on defense, we dedicate that money to improving our schools, paying teachers higher salaries to attract the truly best and brightest in addition to the most committed, and letting the Army hold a bake sale when it wants to buy another Bradley?

Yeah, I know. Never mind.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[gratuitous]

15. I'm not sure what you're saying

Are you saying that someone fresh out of college with a bachelor's degree getting $28,000 a year is somehow making a king's ransom? You might want to check on what business school graduates are making at large corporations with a freshly-minted degree. And as you correctly note, teachers with longer tenure and experience, as well as keeping up on all their ongoing professional training obligations, make a pittance. You know what a corporate lawyer with 30 years' experience makes?

As for the taxes you pay that goes to the schools, you are correct that it goes toward your child's education while they are in school. And when your child isn't in school, you're still paying those taxes. That's because someone else was paying taxes to build and maintain the school your child attended long before he or she came along. The school didn't just spring up out of the ground complete with teachers, administrators, janitors and a fight song when your little darling came along; it won't go away when he or she graduates to bigger and better things.

And all of that costs money, and is part of the social contract wherein we all pay for things that benefit all of us. It's worth it to you to pay to have other people's kids educated and prepared for their place in society. If you can't see that as an empirical statement of truth, then I will go so far as to say, "Trust me"; there is value to you in making sure that all the kids growing up in your neighborhood (or in your town or in your state) have a good education.

And by the way, who do you think is "the government"? These are your fellow citizens in the community, who are interested enough in the system to carry out its functions. You fund them with your taxes. Are you keeping tabs on them? Do you attend PTA and school board meetings? Are you corresponding with them to make sure that they know what you want, and take your wishes into consideration when they make decisions, whether it's in the school or about the roads or who gets a permit to build a megastore in your neighborhood? Because if you're not providing input to your local government representatives, there are a lot of other folks who are, and whose interests may not jibe with yours.

You say you're far too busy to attend to such things? That's entirely possible. There are factions hard at work in our society to make sure that citizens are too preoccupied or distracted to pay attention to what's going on with their government. One of the things these factions like to divert people's attention with is the canard that taxes are not a valid investment or that government isn't responsive to its constituents or that government choices don't accurately reflect those of the citizenry. Some of them even try to persuade the population that tax cuts for the overrich are a boon to the rest of society; that somehow the biggest winners in our social system shouldn't help pay for it.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[gratuitous]

18. Money isn't going to fix failing schools?

Gee, I wonder why successful businesses spend all that money recruiting the best candidates, renting the nicest offices and bribing the best congress critters?

My point about parents is that there are a lot of demands on a lot of people's time. When a person has to work two or three jobs just to maintain a household, there isn't much time left over to spend an evening at the school board or the PTA.

Would you feel better if every student at the local school had to come by daily and say, "Thank you, Mr. Taxpayer, for supporting our school financially"? Or are you secure enough in yourself that they'd only have to come by once a week?

Sheesh.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[mitchum]

20. A business degree has much more work involved in it???!!!

Utter bullshit.
How much work is involved in learning "buy low and sell high"?
Everything else is trendy management "techniques" and soothsaying.

Also, you're really tipping your hand with that "government school" phrase. Do you care to hold forth on "the fair tax"?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[mitchum]

21. Isn't there a Libertarian board where you would be more comfortable?

[hughee99]

23. I have to disagree on this...

http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/21/pf/college/starting_salaries/

First, the amount of work that goes into getting a degree GREATLY differs from not only school to school, but between majors as well. According to the chart, elementary education starts at about 30K, and those who majored in specific disciplines can do even better while business starts at about 38K.

Consider the example of my old roommate (communication's degree Worcester State College), who started at $32K (history teacher) with a communications degree in 1999 in Massachusetts. His official work day is 7.5 hours (7:15am-2:45pm) for 180 days a year. The standard is 8 hours for about 236 days per year (assuming weekends off, 3 weeks vacation/sick time per year & 10 vacation days). Over the course of a year, a salaried teacher at $32k will make about 23.70 per hour for 1350 hours of work. A business major, assuming $38k will make about $20.13 per hour for the 1888 hours of work.

I will grant that experienced teachers don't necessarily find the same financial career opportunities that business majors do (I am neither a teacher or a business school graduate), but that's no surprise to anyone going in. IMHO, it's more of a result of public sector vs. private sector jobs, since teachers at private institutions can do very well for themselves financially, while businessmen in the public sector will find that the financial ceiling is well below that of a similar job in the private sector.

[seafan]

14. This is the absolute truth.

The Republicans have spent decades starving the public educational system in this country, such as by gutting funding, stalking and torpedoing teachers' unions, shutting down school meal programs, and constantly trying to figure out ways to funnel public money into private and religious schools' coffers.

The result? Many kids in the public schools have inadequate reading, writing and math skills to cope in a world that demands critical thinking and problem solving on an hourly basis for the rest of their lives. Another result? Teachers find themselves constantly trying to keep order in their classrooms rather than using the time to stimulate learning and curiosity in their students.

Another result of choking the funding from public education? Teachers having to dig into their own pockets to buy educational materials for their students. Another? Loss of standards for teacher training and education. Teachers who were once dedicated and enthusiastic are forced out of the profession from public school neglect and inadequate salary to afford housing near their jobs.

Never make the mistake of missing what the Republicans have done in engineering all of this over the past 40 years. Thanks to people like Grover Norquist, who crowed that the Republicans want government small enough to be able to drown it in the bathtub.

This is what Republicans reaped. It was intentional. It has all been simply a way to further divide the people of this country into the haves and the have nots. No education, no skills, no critical thinking, no hope for a future, no idea of how the moneyed elite are raping them day after day after day.


We're not taking this any more.

[Critters2]

16. In Milwaukee

private schools refuse to admit "special needs kids"--which can mean anything from behaviorally disordered to visually impaired and the whole gamut in between. These kids are too often left stuck in substandard public schools, whose funding is going to help private schools. Private schools can't be made to accept anyone they don't want, even with public funding through vouchers.

So, it's a great idea...if you've got perfect kids.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. Since Jeb can no longer provide safety and security

in our public schools then it is time to take the money and run. Read these stories and see what is really going on in Florida.

Nov 15, 2005
Angry parents question Bradford School Board

STARKE - A standing-room-only crowd packed the Bradford County School Board Room in this close-knit city Monday night, but only two parents got a chance to speak about a rash of violent attacks that rocked the district's high school this fall.

Nearly 100 other residents - including the parents of a 14-year-old girl who was beaten unconscious twice in a school bathroom - left the meeting unheard because the board limited public comment to three pre-scheduled speakers.

"They didn't do anything here. It was a joke," lamented Billy Rehberg, the father of two children in the district. "We want some answers, and if we have to take control of this system, we will. It's our school system, not theirs."

After the meeting, parents and friends comforted Jackie Howard, the mother of the beaten teen. Her daughter, a freshman, sustained broken ribs, a fractured wrist and a concussion in beatings that were her "punishment" from female classmates after she turned in two boys for groping her in class, according to police and school officials.

The teen's mom said, "My personal opinion is that this meeting tonight shows the integrity of the School Board of Bradford County, that my daughter's safety is not important enough to be on the agenda in spite of all these people who were here to support us."

She said an adjuster for the school district's insurance company told her she won't be compensated for her daughter's medical expenses or transportation costs to attend a different school unless she stops talking to the news media and signs an agreement releasing the school system from any blame in the attacks. The mother said she flatly declined the offer.

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051115/LOCAL/51114042/1078/news&template=printart

The following day, someone set fire to this mother's home.

Fire burns home of teen beat at school

November 16. 2005

he bedroom of the 14-year-old victim in a string of attacks at Bradford High School was set on fire late Tuesday night, according to the Bradford County Sheriff's Office.

Lt. Kenneth Hines with the Sheriff's Office said deputies received a call at 9:04 p.m. that there was a fire at the home near Starke.

Few details were known about the incident, but Hines said deputies as well as two or three dogs from Florida State Prison searched the area for two suspects who reportedly started the fire. He would not say how the fire was started; the state Fire Marshal's Office was investigating the incident.

No one was injured and there was minor damage to the home, Hines said.

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051116/LOCAL/51115044/1078/NEWS

[seafan]

25. Jeb is still trying to reverse the smaller class size amendment.

He doesn't give a rat's "you know what" about the condition of public school education. This amendment passed in a large majority by the Florida voters. But yet, he hovers over devious plans to force another statewide vote on it. The people of Florida have stated clearly that we want smaller class sizes to better meet the needs of our children.

Jeb will continue his push to repeal this, and to force his unconstitutional school vouchers down our throats until we forcibly evict him from the Governor's mansion in January, 2007.

That date can't come soon enough.