Kansas School Board OKs Science Standards (Intelligent Design)

[SW FL Dem]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051108/ap_on_sc/evolution_debate_2

[LisaM]

1. Good grief

I'm so glad I don't live there.

[ShockediSay]

71. There really is "Intelligent Design,"it's TOTALLY COMPATIBLE w/ evolution

There really is "Intelligent Design," it's TOTALLY COMPATIBLE w/ evolution, and it was described in considerable detail a few year back in "A New Kind of Science" by Stephen Wolfram. Guess what? Science, evolution and God are reconcilable concepts.

The basic-most thesis of "A New Kind of Science," is that if you give Random Infinity a chance, it develops it's own codes, patterns, a mind of its own, if you will. And what else is God if not infinite. One example is that all snowflakes are variations on a six part design and yet there are no two exactly alike; and along the same principles, fingerprints and DNA; Random Infinity at work.

The book is entirely scientific, and if all those required to study intelligent design are required to read this book in its entirety, we will all be better off, except perhaps for the likes of Pat Robertson and Rick Santorum.

The truth is out there.

[Crunchy Frog]

74. It may be, but

it's really a subject that belongs in a philosophy class and not a science class.

It may be an excellent book, but I very much doubt that it will make it into the Kansas science curriculum.

[kestrel91316]

79. While ID is an attractive idea to some, it is scientifically unverifiable.

It is philosophy, not science. Keep it out of the science classroom, and put it with other philosophies, where it can be debated like so many angels on pinheads.

[northzax]

86. first off, this book was almost unintelligible and absurdly derivative

second off, his premise doesn't actually follow from his facts.
Third off, it in no possible way contradicts evolution or supports 'intelligent design' if you accept the concept that randomness will, if given enough chances, create some sort of order, that means that biological evolution is inevitable, given enough chances. And, since there are a roughly infinite number of chances, Earth was inevitable.
lastly, I would posit that it is inevitable that a computer scientist, especially one as bright as Wolfram, would find patterns in everything. His entire existance is based on patterns, his entire sphere of knowledge is patterns. So he has an even greater propensity to see them than other humans, who have a tradition of finding patterns, even in the random. We are machines, at the end of the day, our eyes have a scan rate, our brain has a scan rate, we process information in slices, the way our brain deals with that is by sorting into patterns, whether or not they exist.

Try an experiment (I didn't think of this, others have used it) take a piece of paper and tape it to the wall. Use a paintbrush to fling paint at the paper. Then fold it in half. Unfold it, and look at it. You may well, if you look closely enough, find a pattern. But that doesn't mean the flight of the paint wasn't random in the first place, it just means that, on that instance, a pattern was created out of nothing.

[geckosfeet]

91. Ummm,, sure. Sure. "Random infinity" supports intelligent design.

[norml]

95. Things arranging themselves in patterns according to the laws of nature...

isn't the same as theorizing an "intelligent designer".

[Zhade]

99. Compatible or not, it's also a totally unproven myth.

That's why it DOESN'T belong in a science classroom.

[wclubin]

110. I don't think you get it. Intelligent design does not belong along

science cause it is not science. Please read about something called the scientific method. If you want to teach intelligent design then create a class called intelligent design, but don't have it taught in a science class because it does not follow the scientific method. teaching intelligent design with science would be the same as showing cartoons on a news program. anyone watching a cartoon news program would have a problem because the cartoon would no pass the news method because news programs need to be real video. Although during bush's case for wmd, collen Powell did show cartoons of mobile labs hahahaha. guess cartoons is good enough news source for repubs.

[midnight armadillo]

111. That book was 20 years late

Cellular automata had their heyday 20 years ago, and Wolfram's book was received with a collective 'so what?' by the current lattice Boltzmann/lattice gas/ cellular automata community since it ignored 20 years of development.

Wolfram locked himself away into irrelevance while composing 'New Kind of Science.'

[VegasWolf]

117. Sure, we all know that randomness and order are identical properties.

:sarcasm:

[Cactus44]

2. How embarrasing for Kansans w/ IQs over 80.

Glad I'm here and not there.

[Scout1071]

63. You rang?

How embarrassing indeed.

No worries...the clock is ticking on the asshats currently on that school board. They will be gone soon enough.

[Birthmark]

3. My condolences to the students of Kansas.

What an obstacle has been thrown up in front of them.

[MuseRider]

4. Anyone who wishes to help us

please visit this web site. http://www.ksalliance.org/

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. of all the stupid, inane, - - did I say stupid? - - -dumb, decisions.

Hey, If an Alabama Governor can boycott an island with a lower rate of kidnapping than his state, why don't we boycott hiring anyone who attends school in Kansas?

Think that will get their attention?

[superconnected]

6. How do they teach intelligent design?

Doesn't that mean they have to teach Christianity and give their screwed up interpretation of it to do that.

Something tells me those poor kids - of all religions, are going to get preached to. They're also going to get the guilt trip and suggested belief of damnation if they don't follow the biblical rules(whatever interpretation.)

[acmavm]

7. Believe me, living in a state right next to Kansas, I'm not at all

surprised. In fact, I wonder when the crazies here in Nebraska will start hollering that evolution is an ideal straight from the great Satan.

[donco6]

47. We have a bill proposed here in Colorado for next term.

Sigh.

[lakercub]

73. And I hope we fight it tooth and nail

I have a little girl about to turn 3 and an infant son, so I am a few years away from having this as a major concern. But this needs to be headed off at the pass right now. CO has too much religious insanity as it is, we don't need this (given how Focus, the International Bible Society, et. al, are in the Springs, I'm surprised we haven't seen this already).

Teach science, and only science, in science class. Keep alchemy, voodoo, creationism, and ID where they belong.

[Crunchy Frog]

75. Ah shit!

I don't have a kid yet, but when I do, I will not hesitate to yank it out of school science classes and do homeschooling in that area instead. I'm not going to have any kid of mine being taught religious indoctrination and scientific illiteracy. Maybe they won't try that shit in the Boulder area.

[Robb]

112. Any details?

Under Colorado law, school districts are free to teach anything they want; there is no state curriculum. :shrug:

[donco6]

113. BWA-HA-HA-HA!

That's simply not true at all. There are state standards (i.e., curriculum) that all districts have to MEET or EXCEED. There is no freedom to teach whatever you want. Not at all.

I'm trying to find the news article from the end of last session - it was an Aurora House member who was talking about sponsoring a bill with the National Center for Science Education (pro-creationism group). It might be too far back to find right now. But I have no doubt we'll see it - particularly with KS passing their new science standards.

[Technowitch]

8. What? No FSMism?

I'm disappointed. And the Noodly Master is probably displeased, too.

[SW FL Dem]

9. LOL - at least CNN mentioned FSM in their story

and gave a link to the website.

[Realityhack]

14. Link? n/t

[SW FL Dem]

19. Link to FSM

http://www.venganza.org/

[apnu]

13. Oh look! Here it is in Kansas!

[unschooler]

31. ROFLOL! That's funny!

:toast:

[Rainscents]

42. LOL made me laugh!

:toast:

[hunter]

103. That's fake, there are no hills in Kansas.

:evilgrin:

[Angry Girl]

17. The Noodly Savior and the Pastafarians are indeed most displeased!

There is but one true religion!

Bring me my bowl of pasta gold!
Bring me my meatballs of desire!
Bring me my sauce with herbs untold!
Bring me my bolognese of fire!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/11/wfsm11.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/11/ixworld.html

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. Do you know the next 4 lines?

I will not cede my legal right,
Nor shall my fork sleep in my hand,
Till we have taught Spaghetti's Flight
In Kansans' backward schooling land.

http://www.virgilanti.com/journal/pivot/entry.php?id=493

(even includes the tune for it - if you don't know it).

[iverglas]

25. that Telegraph article says:

a hymn whose tune at least will be familiar to members of the Women's Institute or England cricket fans

... so ... I'm betting it's not familiar to quite a few people at DU. ;)

Some might be interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_did_those_feet_in_ancient_time

And did those feet in ancient time is a poem by William Blake from the preface to his work Milton: a Poem (1804). Today it is best known as the hymn Jerusalem, with music written by C. Hubert H. Parry in 1916, the most famous version of which is an orchestration written by Sir Edward Elgar in 1922.

... The tune has been set to several texts in the United States, where the traditional lyrics would have little relevance, including O Love of God, how strong and true, which was performed in an arrangement by Michael McCarthy at Ronald Reagan's funeral at Washington National Cathedral.

Well ew. Blake's original is widely regarded as a (utopian) socialist anthem:


JERUSALEM (from 'Milton')

by: William Blake (1757-1827)

AND did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!

I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.


Sort of a fancy version of "we shall not be moved".

[Dudley_DUright]

38. The song would be familiar to Monty Python fans

They use to use it all the time in sketches like this one:

http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/buybed.htm

[Crunchy Frog]

76. Yes, Python did some excellent work with that hymn.

I actually learned it in college when the choir I was in did it. But Python's take on it is the best I think.

[iverglas]

106. lucky not to be Brit ;)

I think your average Brit is probably fed to the teeth with the song by the age of 10 (explaining the enthusiastic reception Monty Python's uses of it receive, I imagine). Me, I can still hear the words as the, hm, referential allegory they are (i.e. without taking the god stuff literally, and I have always absolutely detested Milton), hear the message I want to hear, and appreciate the interesting music to the limited extent that I appreciate music, and be kinda inspired. ;)

Probably something like someone hearing the US pledge of allegiance for the first time (say, without the god stuff), instead of having had to mumble it several thousand times in school before the end of grade eight. The thing itself isn't jingoistic or a measure for imposing ideological uniformity, it's just used that way.

[xxqqqzme]

10. What a millstone

2 hang around kid's necks - guess they can all find jobs in neo-con supported corporations.

[KSLeftyMom]

11. A report on local news last night in ICKY-taw

Talked about how many people are looking into homeschooling and how private school inquiries have gone up in the past month. We moved to a better neighborhood to get my kidlette into a specific school, but now are contemplating private school. Which we can't afford in the new house. Sigh.

Bunch of freakin' Neanderthals running our state (aside from our lovely guv!)

[unschooler]

27. Welcome to DU, KSLeftyMom!

My condolences.

[Zenlitened]

32. Re home/privateschool inquiries u p: It troubles the Reichwing not at all.

Anything they can do to undermine public education, they consider a good thing.

So this is sort of a win-win for them. By injecting creationism into the schools, they simultaneously push their primative notion of god AND turn people away from public education.

:(

[kestrel91316]

81. Their goal of destroying public education is proceeding according to plan.

[atommom]

39. Welcome to DU! I'm in JoCo, and homeschooling seems to be

getting more and more popular here, mostly among religious conservatives. If people start pulling their kids out of public school because of the ID flap, they (the schools) will really be in trouble.

I already discuss evolution with my kids at home, myself. That's one concept they really need to know.

[HockeyMom]

46. Look at the total picture

They would like nothing more than for women/girls to be uneducated. Get married young (no college), have home, make a LOT of babies (4++), and homeschool. And WHO do you think will stay home and homeschool? DADDY? I don't think so. Yes, they want to END public eduction. Private/parochial school for the few elite (RICH) ONLY.

They are even pushing E-TUTORS (teachers) from INDIA for the home school parent.

[atommom]

57. Yes, it is also a way to keep the women at home, away from

"bad influences", and busy. I know of churches in my area that enthusiastically pressure moms to homeschool. Among other things, the mothers are told that homeschooling will only take 2 hours a day, and that public schools are dangerous and will ruin their kids.

This is bad on so many levels...

[politicat]

97. Does Kansas have charter schools?

Several of us in the rationalist community have thought about putting together a charter school that would teach science and work from an evidence based curriculum (in all matters, not just science). We'd even thought about doing so on a roving basis - since serving a population of rationalist kids might require serving several cities.

However... Kansas is starting to look like it might need a rationalist charter/private school, and the cost of living would be considerably less for those of us in more expensive areas.

[atommom]

105. YES, that's exactly what we need! I don't know of any charter

schools here. And I'd be thrilled to see an influx of rationalists.

[99Pancakes]

66. From California, my deepest condolences

Welcome to the DU. Hope we can keep your sanity (quack quack).
:hi:

[AlCzervik]

12. "What's the matter with Kansas?"

oy, does Kansas believe in matter?

[beam me up scottie]

15. My condolences to all Kansas DUers.

I know it's not because you didn't fight hard enough.

[Scout1071]

64. Thank. Being a liberal here is indeed a tough row to sow. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

69. I'm sure it is.

I live in the buy-bull belt myself and am just waiting for the neanderthals around here to become emboldened by this victory.

I really am sorry.
It must be frustrating as all hell.

[Ellen Forradalom]

16. I'm curious what materials they'll use.

What company will supply textbooks that discuss both?

[Dudley_DUright]

24. There is really only one so called "text" on ID called

"Of Pandas and People" being peddled by the IDiots at the Discovery Institute. Total horse manure. You can read a critical review of the "text" at the National Center for Science Education.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/5359_71_miller_1999_iof_panda_12_6_2004.asp

[El Supremo]

18. You have got to be kidding.

[Ezlivin]

20. We've got to fight them THERE so we don't have to fight them HERE

Damn. I hope this insanity can be quarantined.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[Fire Walk With Me]

48. Exactamundo. "Here they come."

Get a precedent in a single state, and they'll make cases in every state, faster than the speed of greed and selfishness.

Why do they hate our freedom of choice? Since they hate our freedom of choice, or at best honestly don't care, what does this make them?

[bkcc]

21. Damn.

The mentally challenged in this country are really rising up and flexing their muscles, huh?

Soon we'll be burning people at the stake for witchcraft and using leeches to get rid of the "bad" blood that causes disease.

[enlightenment]

59. ummm -- we are using leeches again . . .

but I definitely get your point!

[bkcc]

67. I know that leeches are used medically....

but not for getting rid of "bad blood".

I should have used a better example. My mistake.

[enlightenment]

108. no, my mistake -- I forgot my smilie face.

I was trying for mild humor.

:+ :silly: :hi:

[bmbmd]

22. Take a look at Project Steve.

A "tongue in cheek" research project form the National Center ffor Science Education gets endorsements from phd's named Steve who favor the teaching of tradtional evolution theories. Very enlightening.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/3541_project_steve_2_16_2003.asp

[Beelzebud]

26. Since when was science a democratic process?

This is utter bullshit.

And people wonder why I can't fucking stand organized religion.

Hey God Freaks: FUCK YOU!!!

[edwin]

28. Here's a little something we can do:

http://www.defconamerica.org/zealots/">http://www.defconamerica.org/zealots/

[beam me up scottie]

68. Done.

Thanks for the link and welcome to DU.
:hi:

[2Design]

29. most school bds are being taken over by the right

no one votes on these positions because they are unwilling to get involved and find out the facts

[MuseRider]

43. We could not find the facts.

Anywhere. They were apparently not required to tell us how they might vote on these issues. Believe me, I tried for weeks to find out. I finally voted for the person who did not mention church in their bio.

[2Design]

119. I looked at church, organizations they belonged to

and colleges they went to

when it is a rw pat robertson college it was a dead give away

it is hard to know how they will vote
but if it says they belong to democratic women that helps

trying to read between the lines is hard

I know I called the mayor offic and asked if she was a dem or repub and got the she isn't any party

took about 4 hours to investigate
I went to the polling place and got the list of who was running
you don't even see that anywhere

hard to vote responsibly

[unschooler]

30. How exactly is the science teacher supposed to teach ID?

You can't do experiments observe anything. Is the idea to just shut down discussion of evolution in the science classroom (which, according to what I've read, is already happening in lots of places because teachers are afraid of getting flack for talking about the "E" word). What kind of training does a teacher candidate need to have in order to correctly teach "ID" in a high school classroom? Do colleges now need to "prepare" their science ed majors by "teaching" them something about this?

[Dudley_DUright]

33. Not my college, if I have anything to say about it

Even most of my religion department faculty colleagues are against teaching ID, not to mention all of my fellow science colleagues.

[mainer]

36. Simple. "If you can't explain it, just say God did it."

Students will learn that if a process seems too mysterious, too difficult to understand, there's no point in trying to figure out how it works. Just shrug your shoulders and declare "God made it."

it should make passing science exams really easy.

[jsamuel]

34. should say: Kansas School Board KOs Science Standards

[Endangered Specie]

61. ohhh, nice

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

35. I got out of Kansas in 1962

And I'm never going back except to visit.

[mainer]

37. Can you say: "PULL THEIR ACCREDITATION"?

[Gelliebeans]

40. This makes me sick. n/t

[yellowcanine]

41. ACLU needs to sue. This is mixing religion and state.

[Qanisqineq]

44. What the hell is the matter with Kansas?

Or at least some Kansas citizens (Kansans?). I really hope it isn't contagious. What a ridiculous proposition.

When I was in high school biology class, my teacher basically said (paraphrasing): If you don't believe in evolution, fine, I don't need to hear about it. But learn it because you are going to be tested on it whether you believe in it or not.

[Sandpiper]

45. Alabama can breathe a sigh of relief

They've now been edged out for the title of most embarrassing State.


Is there any way we could build a wall around Kansas and make it illegal for Kansans to leave until they were ready to move out of the 19th century?

[SW FL Dem]

96. I thought Florida had that title n/t

[HockeyMom]

49. Catholic Church TEACHES Evolution

So those parents can opt out saying that Creationism goes against their RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. Going to be a lot of lawsuits over this. Wait.

[Minnesota Raindog]

50. Kansas School Board approves science standards casting doubt on evolution

Kansas devolves--again:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1592/5715501.html

Risking the kind of nationwide ridicule it faced six years ago, the Kansas Board of Education approved new public-school science standards Tuesday that cast doubt on the theory of evolution.

The 6-4 vote was a victory for "intelligent design'' advocates who helped draft the standards. Intelligent design holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

Critics of the new language charged that it was an attempt to inject God and creationism into public schools in violation of the separation of church and state.

All six of those who voted for the new standards were Republicans. Two Republicans and two Democrats voted no.

[Orlandodem]

51. I love this new age of Enlightenment we're in. n/t

[stepnw1f]

54. New Age of Knuckle Dragging Delusions of Grandeur

Up your dose, because you are about to fall from your high!

[acmejack]

52. Tragic.

Talk about dumbing down the populace.

[HockeyMom]

53. Wait until these HS kids try to get into an out of state college,

especially as a Science Major.

[Pacifist Patriot]

55. I was just about to post the same thing when I scrolled down

and saw your response. I'd love to see a collection of private universities come out with a statement that Science majors from Kansas will automatically be disqualified. Wonder what kind of firestorm that would set off.

[Solon]

58. Not just science majors...

basically all universities and colleges worldwide should not consider any graduation document from public schools in Kansas as valid. Imagine the surprise of all these high schoolers, and their parents, when they find out that they can't attend to ANY higher education because of a few wackos. Unless they shell out the money for an out of state GED of course.

[mwooldri]

72. Maybe some kind of 'entrance exam' would be appropriate?

Just because a State school board says that teaching intelligent design is OK doesn't mean that the individual schools will teach it.

Besides, a simple entrance exam into a university would see if a person understands what the truth is, and if they fail the entrance exam they'd have to take a pre-university course before they could take regular courses at all.

[KansDem]

114. A typical scenario:

Admissions department of a well-know university:

Admissions Officer 1: Well, here's the new crop of applicants for our prestigious science program.
Admissions Officer 2: Where did this one graduate from?
AO 1: A high school in Kansas...
AO 1 and AO 2 look at each other, say nothing for a moment, then burst out in hysterical laughter.
AO 1: What say? Shall we put this in "the file?"
AO 2: My thought exactly!

The application is tossed into a wastebasket marked "Kansas"

[deminks]

56. The shame is overwhelming.

Perhaps when our economy suffers even more, when our graduates cannot get jobs out of state, when businesses move out, ...

:banghead:

[Fire Walk With Me]

60. "Kansas students at a disadvantage in a competitive job market"

Former board chairwoman Linda Holloway, ousted in the 2000 election after the board de-emphasized evolution, praised the board's move.

"It's the next step to breaking the shackles off evolution so we can break it open and look into it," she said.

Jack Krebs, a science teacher and vice president of Kansas Citizens for Science, said the move will put Kansas students at a disadvantage in a competitive job market.

"You've changed the definition of science so they (the standards) include supernatural explanations," he said.

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/13113185.htm

[Thom Little]

62. Best argument EVER for home schooling

[kestrel91316]

84. Yep, the RW goal of destroying the public schools is one step closer....

Soon, homeschooling will be the ONLY option.

Dontcha just LOVE progress?????

[msongs]

65. teach it using only non-christian examples :-)

that will get the christofascists in an uproar.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/chinamart.htm

[Metta]

70. What's in the water there? First Brown and now this.

What's up with that?

[onehandle]

77. Making us even now more...The laughing stock of the world. nt

[jfkraus]

78. Hey Kansas!

Did you know? The world is actually round. Yes, way! Can you believe it? No?

What's next? Are you going to challenge Copernicus
and offer up biblical evidence that the earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it? Uh oh. I shouldn't have planted that seed. Never mind, just go back into your cave.

[wickerwoman]

101. Next up is plate techtonics.

Seriously. Because God causes earthquakes to punish the wicked...

I wish I was making this shit up.

Welcome to DU, jf!

[northzax]

80. fine, then actually teach it

you cannot teach a critique of evolution without a serious understanding of evolutionary theory. Simply saying "it's not real" isn't teaching it. Go into detail about amoebas, and teach WHY they do things. If you want to claim that amoeba flaggelum are too complex to have evolved, then you actually have to teach about amoeba flaggelum. And that would likely be an improvement over the lame ass science most (not all) public schools teach these days.

But somehow I don't think that will actually happen, do you?

[JJackFlash]

82. Goodbye, Kansas (creationists score)

http://pharyngula.org/

"It's a sad day for American science. We've lost Kansas.

For the next few years, a lot of schoolkids are going to get taught slippery twaddle—instead of learning what scientists actually say about biology, they're going to get the phony pseudoscience of ideologues and dishonest hucksters. And that means the next generation of Kansans are going to be a little less well informed, even more prone to believing the prattlings of liars, and the cycle will keep on going, keep on getting worse....

Goodbye, Kansas. I don't expect to see many of your sons and daughters at my university in coming years, unless the teachers of your state refuse to support the outrageous crapola their school board has foisted on them. I hope the rest of the country moves on, refusing to join you in your stagnant backwater of 18th century hokum."

[dave123williams]

83. Good riddance.

[drhilarius]

87. I share that sentiment. nt

[derby378]

85. Here come da judge...

I hope the gavel comes down on this steaming pile of bullshit before it's force-fed to too many children in Bleeding Kansas.

[BattyDem]

88. Shouldn't the headline be ...

"Kansas School Board OKs Lack of Science Standards"

:eyes:

[northzax]

89. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you...the Kansas School Board!

these are the republicans on the board, the ones who rewrote the defininition of science:

Carol Rupe
Executive Director of the Financial Fitness Foundation
Carol has also served on boards for Leadership 2000, the Quivira Boy Scout Council, Episcopal Social Services, WISE, and the Junior League of Wichita.

Iris Van Meter
Iris graduated from Kentucky Mountain Bible College in 1956 with a degree in Christian Education.

Steve Abrams
Steve owns a veterinary practice in Arkansas City.
Once served as president of Rural Water District number 6.

Kenneth R. Willard
He currently serves as a district manager for an insurance company, managing 25 agencies in south-central and southwest Kansas.

Kathy Martin
Kathy earned her Bachelors Degree in Elementary Education in 1967, and her Masters in Special Education in 1984, both from Kansas State University.

Connie Morris
Connie and her husband Kelly farm and ranch and own a plumbing business in St. Francis where they have resided for 12 years.

John Bacon
John earned his Bachelor's degree in accounting from Mid- America Nazarene University in 1985 and is now self-employed as a certified public accountant.

Sue Gamble
She earned her Associate Degree from Johnson County Community College and a Bachelor's Degree in social work from the University of Kansas.
She is currently an associate broker with MJ Allen & Associates.

the only edit I did was to delete their emails. They may be on the site, but I'm not posting them.

six of these people voted yes, I'm still trying to find out which. By the way, the new standards are here: http://www.ksde.org/outcomes/scstdworkingdoc892005.pdf

[drhilarius]

92. Holy crap! well, with scientific credentials like those...

I expect the "theory" of gravity to go the way of the dinosaur in Kansas. Btw, Dinosaurs never existed but were instead put into the earth by satan to fool us.

[northzax]

94. yes, farmers, insurance agents and brokers

know more about science than scientists. ain't it great?

this is nothing against farmers, insurance agents or brokers, they all have their sphere of expertise, I wouldn't tell a famer how to farm, or an insurance agent how to sell insurance, or a broker how to to broker (since it's unclean exactly what she brokers) because I don't know anything about it. What I do know is how to write science standards, I have actually done it before, unlike them, apparently.

[ikri]

104. Two who will have voted for science and sanity

Sue Gamble and Carol Rupe

You can read their thoughts on ID (and FSM) here

[Minnesota Raindog]

116. Why on earth would you delete their e-mails

These clowns need to be hammered with e-mails. I e-mailed them a couple years ago when they pulled this same shit and got a very eloquent response back from one of the anti-creationists on the board who was very embarrassed about the vote.

[VegasWolf]

90. The religious christians will destroy America. nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

93. Kansas School Board = DUMBASSES. What's next? Alchemy?

If I had a child in a Kansas public school, we would MOVE OUT OF THE STATE IMMEDIATELY. Fuck this state-mandated Xtian pseudo-science BULLSHIT.

Atheist, liberal, well-educated, alturistic...and 230 lbs. of muscle ready to kick some fundie dumbass Repuke ass.

B

[barb162]

98. This is just crazy!

[Beware the Beast Man]

100. When even the friggin' Vatican denounces teaching I.D. as science,

you realize just how off-their-rocker these people are.

[anitar1]

102. I would detour around that place! What sort of pea brains

would choose that? Poor children.

[importDavid]

107. Incredible!

I have a 16 month old and a 3 year old here in Western Johnson county in Kansas.

They'll be in school soon enough...

It's a great reason to do home schooling - or a private school.

What the hell are they thinking? - oh wait... they didn't.

[Blue_Tires]

115. welcome to the site! nt

[WindRavenX]

109. DAMN

This REALLY hurts. I feel so sorry for the children whose education will surely suffer :(

[remohens]

118. Intelligent Design

Yesterday, my 5-year-old nephew told me that we came from monkeys. I had to laugh a bit considering the fact that so many "adults" don't realize that yet.

[twaddler01]

120. Didn't the Vatican say

"the faithful should listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific reason." ?????

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051104/ap_on_sc/vatican_science_3