NYT: Report Warned Bush Team About Intel Suspicions (re. Qaeda official)

[DeepModem Mom]

Report Warned Bush Team About Intelligence Suspicions
By DOUGLAS JEHL
Published: November 6, 2005


WASHINGTON, Nov. 5 - A high Qaeda official in American custody was identified as a likely fabricator months before the Bush administration began to use his statements as the foundation for its claims that Iraq trained Al Qaeda members to use biological and chemical weapons, according to newly declassified portions of a Defense Intelligence Agency document.

The document, an intelligence report from February 2002, said it was probable that the prisoner, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, "was intentionally misleading the debriefers" in making claims about Iraqi support for Al Qaeda's work with illicit weapons.

The document provides the earliest and strongest indication of doubts voiced by American intelligence agencies about Mr. Libi's credibility. Without mentioning him by name, President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Colin L. Powell, then secretary of state, and other administration officials repeatedly cited Mr. Libi's information as "credible" evidence that Iraq was training Al Qaeda members in the use of explosives and illicit weapons.

Among the first and most prominent assertions was one by Mr. Bush, who said in a major speech in Cincinnati in October 2002 that "we've learned that Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and gases."

The newly declassified portions of the document were made available by Senator Carl M. Levin of Michigan, the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/politics/06intel.html

[NanceGreggs]

1. Looks like that 'tangled web' ...

.. that was woven by this Admin's lies is turning into a noose.

[andino]

2. This is a interesting turn

I really hope that the MSM starts to wake up a little more and 'really' investigate the reasons for war...

[sabra]

3. keep it coming!

the lied, and everyone must know the truth.

[cspanlovr]

4. Lying scum,,,

from the top to the bottom(feeders). But I fear the "cult of bush" won't allow inconvenient facts to enter their little minds. They'll tune in Fox and it will all be explained to them. Then they can go to sleep at night, safe and secure in the belief that they are always right.

[watrwefitinfor]

41. The truth has been out there for some time: TORTURE

This was all discussed in a February 2005 article in the New Yorker about "rendering" prisoners. I wrote about this last night, downstream post #20, but that post has been ignored.

OUTSOURCING TORTURE by Jane Mayer.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6

"Cloonan’s F.B.I. colleagues advised Libi of his rights and took turns with C.I.A. agents in questioning him. After a few days, F.B.I. officials felt that they were developing a good rapport with him. The C.I.A. agents, however, felt that he was lying to them, and needed tougher interrogation."

"To Cloonan’s dismay, the C.I.A. reportedly rendered Libi to Egypt."

"Last summer, Newsweek reported that Libi, who was eventually transferred from Egypt to Guantánamo Bay, was the source of the incendiary charge cited by Powell, and that he had recanted."


It's all out there already. And the tie-in to the quality of information you get through torture is too obvious to bear repeating.

But I will repeat it anyway.

It seems torture-induced lies may have played a huge role in enabling this disgusting regime to destroy the state and people of Iraq, and bring our own country to the brink of ruin.

Wat

[otohara]

5. Pack of Liars....Umm...err.... Likely Fabricators

they just can't bring themselves to say liar, can they?

[TacticalPeek]

6. Kick.

Mentioning them by name, President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and Colin L. Powell are lying assholes.





2046
http://icasualties.org/oif/

:grr:

[wookie294]

7. This is an impeachable offense

As Republicans in Congress distance themselves from Bush, it will be easier for them to impeach the monkey!

[rodeodance]

8. and Levin is on the Phase II committee. SWEET

[rodeodance]

9. Here is Levins comments.

Mr. Levin said the new evidence of early doubts about Mr. Libi's statements dramatized what he called the Bush administration's misuse of prewar intelligence to try to justify the war in Iraq. That is an issue that Mr. Levin and other Senate Democrats have been seeking to emphasize, in part by calling attention to the fact that the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee has yet to deliver a promised report, first sought more than two years ago, on the use of prewar intelligence.

A White House spokeswoman said she had no immediate comment on the D.I.A. report on Mr. Libi. But Senate Republicans, put on the defensive when Democrats forced a closed session of the Senate this week to discuss the issue, have been arguing that Republicans were not alone in making prewar assertions about Iraq, illicit weapons and terrorism that have since been discredited.

[rodeodance]

10. so doubts 'fabracator"--turned majically into Jr's 'credible evidence"-

[jazzjunkysue]

11. throw more evidence of intel fixing on the fire.

And thank god it's turning up in print. Let's hope it makes it to the idiot box, too.

Great fodder for the dems in the '06 elections.

[54anickel]

12. So were Curveball and Libi working for OBL or for Bushco when

spreading these lies? If Bushco, obviously it's treason. If OBL, Bush is completely incompetent and fell for the bait, even after it was questioned by intelligence. OBL has won, and must be loving every minute of this - if he's still alive. His demands have been met. The US is out of SA, Saddam no longer rules Iraq, and Palestine will have their state. Wonder if he's saying he's hit the tri-fecta?

So this BS being spread by the Repukes that the last administration was fooled by these reports as well doesn't hold water either - the previous administration did not go to war over it. Clinton warned that OBL will keep them plenty busy, wouldn't part of that be in verifying intel and separating fact from fiction?

[SharonRB]

13. Anyone notice the irony of the guy's name

Mr. Libi? Different spelling, same name.

[NYC]

31. I noticed that immediately.

Was it his real name? Libi, Libby.

[wellst0nev0ter]

53. Thought You Meant "Al Libi"

as in Al Libi = "alibi" :rofl:

[daleo]

14. Was there ever a war so unnecessary and so built on lies?

I grant you that Viet Nam wasn't much better, but at least "the world wide communist threat" made a tiny smidgen of sense (in theory, if not in fact). This one becomes more and more a "war of choice" with every story - Bush/PNAC choice.

[indie_voter]

17. And so dangerous for generations to come?

[Maggie_May]

15. We can't let this die

The Democrats must pursue this issue. Why did we go into Iraq? They owe to the American people especially our armed service men and women. This should be a independent investigation. This is not about a blue dress with stains on it this about why are men and women invaded another country and dieing for it.

[indie_voter]

16. I get so angry

Anybody who bought this nonsense didn't do a bit of due diligence. Hussein and bin Laden were NOT collaborators.

They are both evil men but with very different goals.

We did bin Laden a favor when we took out Saddam.

I remember having these arguments when these liars (Bush admin) first started saying all this garbage. People bought it even though it made absolutely no sense at all.

Better late than never I suppose, I hope people pay attention. I feel like going back to the forums I left in disgust to say "I TOLD YOU SO!!"

[lumpy]

18. kick

x

[goforit]

19. How many crimes does it take a Republican to see light?

They have more crimes piled ontop of each other
that it makes Mt Everest look like a mole hill!!!

[watrwefitinfor]

20. This was written about in December 2001

Some of this seems to have already been widely known.

At Rummy's Diaries blog:

http://rummysdiaries.blogspot.com/2001_12_01_rummysdiaries_archive.html

"Incident: Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi gives bad intelligence
In late 2001 or early 2002, the CIA renders Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi to Egypt. While there, he will provide "information" that will form the basis for Secretary of State Colin Powell's address to the United Nations Security Council on 6 February 2003 justifying the invasion of Iraq. "

They quote something from the New Yorker about a retired FBI agent saying (in response to Powell's intelligence being faulty), "I could have told them that. He ran a training camp. He wouldn't have had anything to do with Iraq. Administration officials were always pushing us to come up with links, but there weren't any. The reason they got bad information is that they beat it out of him. You never get good information from someone that way. "

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6

I don't have time to chase this down, but someone might like to.

Wat

[watrwefitinfor]

21. Mods, please delete - DUPE

n/t

[damntexdem]

22. Take everything they said and assume it was a lie.

Investigate it, and expect to find that they knew it was a lie.

[cal04]

23. Bush, Cheney, and Powell Repeatedly Pushed False Evidence

Bush, Cheney, and Powell Repeatedly Pushed False Evidence To Justify War
The New York Times reveals that the Bush administration was warned in February 2002 that its source of knowledge for the claim that Iraq was training al Qaeda in chemical and biological weapons was “was intentionally misleading the debriefers.”

Beginning in February 2002 and continuing into 2004, the Bush administration repeatedly used this false evidence to justify the war against Iraq. Here are some examples:

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/05/statements-on-evidence/

[Bill Bored]

24. Libi??? Any relation to Scooter? nt

[huckleberry]

25. NYT: Report Warned Bush Team About Intelligence Doubts

By DOUGLAS JEHL
Published: November 6, 2005

WASHINGTON, Nov. 5 — A top member of Al Qaeda in American custody was identified as a likely fabricator months before the Bush administration began to use his statements as the foundation for its claims that Iraq trained Al Qaeda members to use biological and chemical weapons, according to newly declassified portions of a Defense Intelligence Agency document.

The document, an intelligence report from February 2002, said it was probable that the prisoner, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, “was intentionally misleading the debriefers’’ in making claims about Iraqi support for Al Qaeda’s work with illicit weapons.

snip

Among the first and most prominent assertions was one by Mr. Bush, who said in a major speech in Cincinnati in October 2002 that “we’ve learned that Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and gases.’’

The newly declassified portions of the document were made available by Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Mr. Levin said the new evidence of early doubts about Mr. Libi’s statements dramatized what he called the Bush administration’s misuse of prewar intelligence to try to justify the war in Iraq. That is an issue that Mr. Levin and other Senate Democrats have been seeking to emphasize, in part by calling attention to the fact that the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee has yet to deliver a promised report, first sought more than two years ago, on the use of prewar intelligence.


more at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/politics/06intel.ready.html

[babylonsister]

26. NYTimes: trying to distract criticism that they didn't report

important news at the time?

[opihimoimoi]

28. The Covering of their collective asses continues...CYA Gone Wild.

[HuckleB]

29. Maybe. But it doesn't matter now.

If they do the job they're supposed to now, that's what we need them to do.

[babylonsister]

30. I will give them credit for doing their jobs and telling the truth.

Yes, we need this, and the Times need to get their credibility back.

[whoretaculture]

27. Nothing new

Just another document that fueled the "other" CIA that none of the policy makers were listening to anyway.

[Carolab]

32. I don't like this.

They are making it seem as though Bushco was "duped" by this lying prisoner.

C'mon, guys.

[norml]

33. Newly Released Data Undercut Prewar Claims

Newly Released Data Undercut Prewar Claims
Source Tying Baghdad, Al Qaeda Doubted

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 6, 2005; Page A22

In February 2002, the Defense Intelligence Agency questioned the reliability of a captured top al Qaeda operative whose allegations became the basis of Bush administration claims that terrorists had been trained in the use of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, according to declassified material released by Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.).

Referring to the first interrogation report on al Qaeda senior military trainer Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, the DIA took note that the Libyan terrorist could not name any Iraqis involved, any chemical or biological material used or where the training occurred. As a result, "it is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers," a DIA report concluded.


In fact, in January 2004 al-Libi recanted his claims, and in February 2004 the CIA withdrew all intelligence reports based on his information. By then, the United States and its coalition partners had invaded Iraq.

Levin, ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he arranged for the material to be declassified by the DIA last month. At the same time that the administration was linking Baghdad to al Qaeda, he said, the DIA and other intelligence agencies were privately raising questions about the sources underlying the claims.


snip

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/05/AR2005110501267.html

[Newsjock]

34. The old joke about Pincus being relegated to Page A22

... seems to be in full effect again tonight.

[Pirate Smile]

36. That was my question which I included before I saw your post.

:wtf:

Do you have any details? Is he "too critical" of BushCo?

What is the deal?

edit to add - Levin got it through the Armed Services Committee - not the Intelligence Committee - in fact they never saw it before Phase 1 (information withheld by Cheney?).

Doesn't that prove how useless the Phase 1 piece of crap was?

[Newsjock]

37. Before the war ...

... it was common for the Post to put all the rah-rah war crap on the front page, and then run a Pincus piece saying "it's all crap," but buried way back on Page A22 or somesuch.

[Pirate Smile]

35. Here is more:

'"Just imagine," Levin said, "the public impact of that DIA conclusion if it had been disclosed at the time. It surely could have made a difference in the congressional vote authorizing the war."

Levin also pointed out that before the war, the CIA had its own reservations about al-Libi, although the agency did not note them in its publicly distributed unclassified statements. In those, Levin said, it described the source -- without naming al-Libi -- as "credible." In the classified version, however, the CIA added that the source "was not in a position to know if any training had taken place."

Levin said: "Imagine if the president or the others had added that the source of the information might have been making it up for his questioners or wasn't in a position to know. . . . Would he have delivered that in his speech?"

Levin said he first obtained the DIA document as part of his continuing investigation as an Armed Services panel member into intelligence activities that took place within the office of Undersecretary of Defense Douglas J. Feith after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Feith's Office of Special Plans undertook a review and analyses of prewar al Qaeda intelligence.

Levin said Friday that he was not aware whether the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, on which he also serves, has the document. That panel did not have the DIA document in July 2004 when it completed its Phase 1 report on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs."


Why is this on A22 instead of A1?

[dwightspencer]

39. There is no disinfectant like sunshine

The news that they don't wtant printed may not be making it to the cover, but we are still talking. This story is starting to pick up momentum all over the web. Curveball and al-Libi are the tip of the iceberg. It may be awhile before we find out what went on in the private session of the Senate, but I hope the air was starting to get cleared. We can look forward to more of these stories getting printed and more people starting to talk about them.

[upi402]

40. They gave Bush the authority, I realize that...

...when I say Kerry voted for war. Dems were lied to, or at least not told the full facts.

On freeper sites I always remind them that Kerry voted to give Bush the weight of authorization to go to war. And that Kerry was lied to.

[Just Me]

38. Even Wacko Walt is waking the hell up?!?!?!?! Hey, Walt,...

,...I got room for ya' as a fellow American. Prepared to dig in, together?

[bklyncowgirl]

42. It's sort of like when you really want to buy a car--you ignore doubters.

You see a used car. You fall in love with the car. The salesman goes on and on about how this is the coolest car in world. Your life's partner is dubious, your mechanic says it needs work.

BUT YOU WANT THAT CAR.

So you ignore everyone who tries to talk some sense to you. The salesman becomes you best pal. You forget that he has other motives. You buy the car.

Al Libi did what any good salesman does--he told them what they wanted to hear.

In this case, giving the Cabal a rationale for going to war against Iraq, helped take the heat off Al Queda. The intelligence pros doubted the story but these doubts weren't getting to anyone who didn't desperately want the story to be true.

What we don't know is:

Did he do it deliberately or was he tortured into saying anything that kept them away from the electric switch and hot pokers?

[watrwefitinfor]

45. An FBI agent said he was RENDERED and TORTURED.

I have two posts already on this thread stating this, with sources. al Libi was rendered to Egypt and TORTURED according to information in the New Yorker. See Post #41 (posted early this morning) and post #20 (posted last night) above for citations.

I'm beginning to feel invisible here.

Wat

[Pirate Smile]

46. You aren't and it is a good point.

Perhaps this is why Cheney is so adamant that torture not be outlawed - how else could he force people to say under duress the false information which he needs to promote his cabal.

The argument to use with people who don't care about human rights is that torture doesn't provide good intelligence. They just say what they think you want to hear so you will stop. This is a perfect example of that - although BushCo got what they wanted.

[watrwefitinfor]

47. Thank you Pirate. I feel better.

:hi:

I really wanted the people who were raising all the questions about why he would make it up then retract it to see the possibilities here.

Wat

[bklyncowgirl]

54. So it was torture.

Al Libi then told them what they wanted to hear so that they'd stop torturing him.

All in all a good arguement against torture.

[DeepModem Mom]

43. ADDING: WP, Pincus, "Newly Released Data Undercut Prewar Claims"

Newly Released Data Undercut Prewar Claims
Source Tying Baghdad, Al Qaeda Doubted

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 6, 2005; Page A22

In February 2002, the Defense Intelligence Agency questioned the reliability of a captured top al Qaeda operative whose allegations became the basis of Bush administration claims that terrorists had been trained in the use of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq, according to declassified material released by Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.).

Referring to the first interrogation report on al Qaeda senior military trainer Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, the DIA took note that the Libyan terrorist could not name any Iraqis involved, any chemical or biological material used or where the training occurred. As a result, "it is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers," a DIA report concluded.

In fact, in January 2004 al-Libi recanted his claims, and in February 2004 the CIA withdrew all intelligence reports based on his information. By then, the United States and its coalition partners had invaded Iraq.

Levin, ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he arranged for the material to be declassified by the DIA last month. At the same time that the administration was linking Baghdad to al Qaeda, he said, the DIA and other intelligence agencies were privately raising questions about the sources underlying the claims.

Since then, Levin said in an interview Friday, almost all government intelligence on whether Iraq pursued or possessed weapons of mass destruction has proved faulty. In addition to the allegation of training terrorists loyal to Osama bin Laden, there were government claims that then-Iraq President Saddam Hussein had stocks of chemical and biological weapons, that he had reconstituted his nuclear weapons programs, and that unmanned airborne vehicles posed a threat, Levin said....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/05/AR2005110501267.html

[bettyellen]

44. Thanks DM MOm I was going to add that last bit myself...

[PhilipShore]

48. CNN International: Prewar report doubted Iraq-al Qaeda tie

CNN International
Monday, November 7, 2005 Posted: 0345 GMT (1145 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/11/06/iraq.intel/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Democratic senator on Sunday said newly declassified information shows that Bush administration officials repeatedly accused Iraq of training al Qaeda terrorists long after interrogators concluded the source of the report was "intentionally misleading" captors.

"This newly declassified information provides additional, dramatic evidence that the administration's prewar statements were deceptive," the Michigan Democrat said in a written statement.

[tuvor]

49. Gee, too bad the info wasn't available, oh, three years ago.

WHY THE CIA THINKS BUSH IS WRONG
The president says the US has to act now against Iraq. The trouble is, his own security services don't agree.
13 October 2002
http://www.sundayherald.com/28384

CIA IN BLOW TO BUSH ATTACK PLANS
The letter also comes at a time when the CIA is competing with the more hawkish Pentagon, which is also supplying the White House with intelligence on the Iraqi threat.
October 10, 2002
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,808970,00.html

WHITE HOUSE 'EXAGGERATING IRAQI THREAT'
Bush's televised address attacked by US intelligence
October 9, 2002
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,807286,00.html

[tuvor]

50. Welcome to DU, by the way.

:hi:

[cal04]

51. let them put it all together with PNAC

Libby the PNAC Connection to WHIG

Recently indicted Lewis Libby is much more than a Plame outer, he is a PNAC member. Libby was indicted for lying about Plame, and this same liar is also Chief of Staff for proven liar <# 1 ;-> Dick Cheney, and both are members of the we need a permanent military presence in the Middle East gang of PNACers…

And this same indicted liar Scooter Libby was the PNAC connection to the WHIG group, making up the lies to sell the war, isn’t this worthy of investigation? Kucinich wants to see all of their correspondence- what’s so crazy about that? Call your Congressman and ask them what their vote on Kucinich’s RoI will be, and if it’s no, ask them Why- and/or tell them your going to make sure a cowardly traitor such as (s)he is replaced next fall.

This week the House Committee on International Relations must vote on Kucinich’s Resolution of Inquiry into the WHIG group. Contact list- Light up their phones.

The nine members of WHIG
# Karl Rove
# Lewis Libby
# Andrew Card
# Condoleezza Rice
# Mary Matalin
# Karen Hughes
# Stephen Hadley
# James R. Wilkinson
# Nicholas E. Calio

http://benfrank.net/blog/2005/11/06/whig_resolution/

H. RES. 505
Requesting the President of the United States and directing the Secretary of State to provide to the House of Representatives certain documents in their possession relating to the White House Iraq Group.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.RES.505:

[Canuckistanian]

52. Good. Add this to the list.

I don't know about you guys and it may sound weird, but I'm rooting for the CIA in this. They're leaking so much stuff lately.

And why isn't Porter Goss stopping this haemorrage of damaging info? Wasn't that his job?

And welcome to DU, PS!
:hi: