McCain vows to add torture ban to all major Senate legislation

[Algorem]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1105mccain-torture05.html

John Hendren
Los Angeles Times
Nov. 5, 2005 12:00 AM

WASHINGTON - Girding for a potential fight with the Bush administration, supporters of a ban on torturing prisoners of war by U.S. interrogators threatened Friday to include the prohibition in nearly every bill the Senate considers until it becomes law.

The no-torture wording, which proponents say is supported by majorities in both houses of Congress, was included last month in the Senate's version of a defense spending bill. The measure's final form is being negotiated with the House, and the White House is pushing for either a rewording or deletion of the torture ban.

On Friday, at the urging of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz, the Senate by a voice vote added the ban to a related defense bill as a backup. advertisement

Speaking from the Senate floor, McCain said, "If necessary - and I sincerely hope it is not - I and the co-sponsors of this amendment will seek to add it to every piece of important legislation voted on in the Senate until the will of a substantial bipartisan majority in both houses of Congress prevails. Let no one doubt our determination."...

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Good for him.

He should, on this issue, get our full support. On other issues he remains a hopelessly compromised asshole :-)

[Robb]

2. Well put. n/t

[MuseRider]

6. I agree. n/t

[saigon68]

66. Whats a couple of "DEAD ISLAMICS among friends

Or as in the words of the CHIMP---- "KILL A FEW MORE(insert racial epithet here)"

[Algorem]

11. come on,you know your just jealous

[Jawja]

14. Perhaps

the GOP will shut down the * Administration over this issue? If this is added to ALL bills and Nero has to have his torture - sounds like he is indeed a DEAD DUCK.

[rpannier]

3. I think that's a great idea

Wish someone on our team had thought of that. It would force scrubbo to veto every piece of important legislation or give in and do the right thing.

[jazzjunkysue]

40. Our team isn't allowed to make law until we get back the majority

[pberq]

4. Kick!!! - Recommended

[cornermouse]

5. Good.

Torture is obscene and unacceptable. The fact that Bush would seek to continue it shows that he is not a christian. I support anyone who would try to remove it from our policies.

[trapper914]

7. Exactly

Would a Christian think crucifixion is acceptable?

[cornermouse]

10. No.

[kurth]

8. Another PR stunt for McCain to prove his "independence", but

It's the right thing to do.

Too bad McCain couldn't wait to stand next to The Chimp and sing his praises last year...

[Dirty Hippie]

12. Maybe, just maybe

he is doing it because of personal conviction?

I dunno, maybe he knows a thing or two about torture.

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. Then he should have done it before the 2004 election

n/t

[Exiled in America]

27. Actually, he did.

He has been talking this same line about torture for a long, long time.

The reason he is coming out with the more specific threats he is now is because it was only this week that cheney went before congress and asked for them to make it legal for the US to torture people.

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. For a US Senator, talking and doing are two difference things

Yes, I am very glad that McCain is finally DOING something, whatever his excuse is. However, he wouldn't have dared tried this before the election, he was too busy kissing Bush's ass. Now that Bush and Cheney are turning against each other, McCain thinks he can get away with making Cheney look bad I suppose.

BTW: Welcome to DU :hi:

[Exiled in America]

34. Tell that to the democrats in the senate.

They need to hear that message more than mccain does.

You're right though, I do remember mccain kissing a bunch of bush ass before the election. Thanks for reminding me. :)

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. Last time I checked the Repugs

were still in the majority and they have pulled every stunt in the book to prevent the Dems from doing anything.

[PurpleChez]

74. I agree. I'd like to think McCain is simply voting his convictions, but

he's shown himself perfectly willing to live in W's asshole as long as it's warm and cozy in there. On occasion he's taken a stab at independence -- then the brown shirts attack him for the sin of Independent Thought, and he crawls back into Cowboy Corky's Cornchute for another election cycle. I think he's a good guy at heart -- or was -- but as a politician he is just one among the masses who sold their souls to ride on *'s coattails back in the day when they actually counted for something.

[Marnieworld]

48. Ya think?

:sarcasm:

[Maeve]

9. It's sick that he has to do this

Sicker that the misAdministration is fighting it...when did torture become a "family value", Bushies?

[Martin Eden]

13. Way to go, John!

McCain may be complicit in much of the damage done by his party, but he is leading the effort to make a stand against one of the biggest stains on our country's honor.

It is almost inconceivable that after the scandal of Abu Ghraib there would be serious resistance to legislation banning the "cruel, inhuman, or degrading" treatment" of prisoners.

This battle will send a message to the world: America will either stand up for the values it proclaims to champion, or it is a rogue nation that deserves to be headed for the dustbin of history.

[rpannier]

20. One of my favorite comments over this comes from VP F**K You

When he said that we aren't engaging in torture right now, but that we need the bill amended to exempt the CIA.
We need to exempt them because????????????????????????

[Martin Eden]

21. It's downright Orwellian

It blows my mind that what's happened to our country over the last 5 years is REAL -- and notjust fiction.

[Daphne08]

65. I asked my husband just tonight (during one of my rants)...

Are we still living in America because I just don't recognize this country anymore.

[Robert Cooper]

36. because you have secret CIA prisons

Presumably the guys running these things can read a newspaper, and will know their fat is in the fire if they continue with the torture after any one of these amendments pass.

How many victims do you think will be allowed to walk away from this?

We've all known Abu Ghraib was a CIA mission, that the kids charged with torture was a white-wash. As far as I'm concerned, the more Cheney calls for an exemption the more the evidence piles up that Abu Ghraib was not about a few bad apples: it's about the slime seeping through from a whole basket of rotten apples.

[IronLionZion]

15. What does McCain know about torture?

...oh that's right. :eyes: Good for him. Kerry and the other veterans in Congress will support this.

More appropriate would be what do the other Rethuglicons in congress know about war? They know how to escape serving, that's all.

[bemildred]

16. Stop this dicking around and impeach these assholes now.

With a majority in both houses there is no need to play footsy with the Bushites.

[leesa]

17. Torture is already banned. Let's just follow our existing law, shall we?

[DIKB]

18. I grudgingly say "Well Done."

Aside from the fact that he has supported the most vile administration since the formation of our gov't. I will not be proud of McCain till he renounces the repukes. He should have realized by now he has no place there, they are using him to make it look like they aren't all bad.

[ET Awful]

19. Thus making himself the congressional equivalent of the whore with

a heart of gold.

:evilgrin:

[Greybnk48]

22. well put, this is all staged to set him up for '08

He's the "great white hope" for the repugs right now.

[supernova]

23. Who cares what his motives are?

The fact is, it's a law we need passed.

It's already deeply sad that we have to restrain our fellow "citizens" from committing torture, but there you go. In 2008, I definitely vote for the Dem candidate, but I'll support him in this.

[Greybnk48]

24. Why doesn't he bring up the FACT that torture IS

illegal and that the actions of the Repug regime are criminal instead of acting like it's some sort of fresh idea attributed to him? This is all
bullshit. If torture continues, we'll never know.

on edit: Sorry to sound so cranky (not aimed at you), but I hate these phoney bastards and McCain is near the top of my list after his performance in the last election cycle.

[supernova]

26. Because nobody would care

other than legal eagle types. Which, the Far Out Right would paint as "sue happy."

They have to garner public support for this, so he has to present it like it's a new idea.

[Greybnk48]

29. McCain couldn't launch a publicity campaign

against the *admin calling for a return to traditional American values which prohibit treating human beings the way he was treated?? Sorry, I think this is to set him up.

[supernova]

30. I didn't say it wasn't

I'm saying I don't care if he has that motive.

edit: And I'll add I think you're short-sighted to want him to pull the plug on the debate for that reason.

[Exiled in America]

28. News flash:

everything every politician does is done with their future election in mind.

[sellitman]

50. Welcome to DU

And yes McCain is just another Repuke Prostitute under all that charm.

[Rainscents]

31. Good. 4. Him!

This need to be done and anyone who can do this is McCain since he gets more support from his party and he had gone throu being tortured...As for Dems, we all know that, they're all agreement with McCain with this issue.

[yorgatron]

33. McCain is a stupid asshole!

:grr::mad: trying to close the barn door after the horses have gotten loose.
you support Bush,you support torture.
fucking WHORE!!!!!!

[jazzjunkysue]

41. Yep. Can't outrun that truth. McCain bought and paid for B***. He knew.

He knew the boy king would take this route.

McCain won't jump ship to our party cause he likes all the money, just like all the rest of them.

And that's what makes them all evil. GOP=EVIL

[onehandle]

37. I LOVE Republican infighting. McCain is a right-wing prick...

...and rarely on the side of good. This is one of those rare occasions.

However, no one forget that he's a thug 99.9% of the time.

He has Nothing to lose in this challenge. And a nomination to gain.

[BR_Parkway]

38. Could that include a SCOTUS confirmation vote?

[ECH1969]

39. McCain is going to walk through 2008 if we don't stop him

Its this kind of "good for him" that is going to kill us. He is setting himself up right now.

[eallen]

42. McCain vows torture ban in Senate bills

From Toledo Blade:

"WASHINGTON - Girding for a potential fight with the Bush Administration, supporters of a ban on torture of prisoners of war by U.S. interrogators threatened yesterday to include the prohibition in nearly every bill the Senate considers until it becomes law.

"The no-torture wording, which proponents say is supported by majorities in both houses of Congress, was included last month in the Senate's version of a defense spending bill. The measure's final form is being negotiated with the House, and the White House is pushing for either a rewording or deletion of the torture ban.

"At the urging of Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.), the Senate by a voice vote added the ban to a related defense bill as a backup.

"Speaking from the Senate floor, Mr. McCain said, 'If necessary - and I sincerely hope it is not - I and the co-sponsors of this amendment will seek to add it to every piece of important legislation voted on in the Senate until the will of a substantial bipartisan majority in both houses of Congress prevails,' Mr. McCain said on the Senate floor. 'Let no one doubt our determination.'"

Rest of article here:

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051105/NEWS09/511050431

[merwin]

43. They should listen to McCain on torture issues. I mean, he's the only

Republican in the Senate who's ever been a POW... and probably the only one to go to war.

[adigal]

55. McCain voted for Torture Boy, Gonzales

I called his office, wrote him, I know a LOT of people from daily kos did also, and he spit in the face of every prisoner when he had no cojones and he voted for Gonzales.

Brave of him to add this to legislation now that Bush's approval is down in the 30s. The only pleasure this gives me is that Bush must be apoleptic over this. :D

[wryter2000]

44. Way cool.

Rub their noses in it, McCain.

[brainshrub]

45. This is one fight where I will back a Republican 100%.

[daleo]

46. But Cheney wants to keep torture

Just in case the president wants to order it. Talk about the degradation of American democracy - right back to the divine right of kings. I guess it goes along with the unlimited pardon provision.

[anotherdrew]

47. ok, when are they going to ban prison rape in the US?

[The Doctor.]

49. That is one of the Reasons I am a McCain Republican. n/t

[sellitman]

51. You are a what?

:wow:

[The Doctor.]

52. Yeah... (like I didn't see this coming)

I have been a registered Republican since the Eighties.

Partly because I believe in a truly conservative approach to Governance, and partly because I understood that oftentimes one needed to do unsavory things to protect the public interests.

But I have seen things go far too far.

Many people don't know that Nixon was a man of convictions whose biggest fault was paranoia. He deserved his fate more for screwing up than for his crimes in my opinion.

In my opinion, Clinton was more a Republican than people gave him credit for... and he was MUCH more fiscally conservative than any Republican of the last 30 years.

I really liked McCain.
His record was fiscally balanced, socially fair, and overall conscientious. He was a savvy politician with a good deal of grit and empathy. Perfect? No. But he was a real Republican.

You know... the people who are supposed to be for conservative spending, limited foreign engagements, state's rights, separation of morality from policy, NOT intruding on people's private lives...

Those Republicans.

There really are a LOT of us around. Most people just don't have the time to study the issues though.

The people in power now just call themselves Republicans, but they are really Plutocrats and Imperialists.

And I'll be damned if I'm going to let them soil real Republican values without trying to expose them for the schills they are.

I am a Republican, McCain is a Republican, Bush is not.

[cascadiance]

58. I think you are confusing "Republican" with "fiscally responsible"

these terms are NOT the same thing. Bill Clinton was more "fiscally responsible" than other presidents, NOT Republican!

Let's not give the term "Republican" credit for what it is CERTAINLY NOT now... Saying a Republican is fiscally responsible is an oxymoron now... And yes, I think Bush would think you're accusing him of having acne needing "treatment" by saying that too...

[The Doctor.]

59. So you missed this part...

"You know... the people who are supposed to be for conservative spending, limited foreign engagements, state's rights, separation of morality from policy, NOT intruding on people's private lives..."

Yes, believe it or not, Republicans actually did believe in that shit.

It's called 'drift'. Perhaps you are more of a Republican than you thought.

Do you believe in state's rights?
The rights of minorities?

Did you know that Republicans were the champions of those things once upon a time?

[cascadiance]

70. Liberal was once a word that was a good word too...

Before those like Rush made it into something equivalent to a racial epithet. I'm working hard to restore its older meaning too, to be able to stand behind it and feel proud to be labeled it. But I know I won't win a lot of friends at the present from older Republicans by calling them "liberal" or some of the older Republican icons "liberal" too.

I feel the current meaning of "Republican" is loaded with other meaning now that has been warped, not initially by people like right wing talk show hosts as "liberal" was, but by the actions of many neocons lately that have been running it and just about all of the Republicans that excuse them for doing so and identify with their behavior. To me "Republican" no longer means a lot of the terms you say it does for you.

I don't believe implicitly in states rights as principle, but more as a pragmatic approach to combat the destructive federal neocon crap that has no other way of being fought at this point.

I also think there's a difference between "responsible" (or frugal) in general spending, and what some call "conservative" spending or "Liberal" spending. "Conservative" or "liberal" for that matter spending doesn't necessarily imply responsible spending. They reflect more different priorities in spending that have been more consistent over time this century. Conservative spending for me is spending where it favors larger spending on things like the military, corporate welfare, etc. and lower spending on social programs or the environment. Liberal spending has the opposite priorities. Either one can get out of control if not checked and become "irresponsible" spending.

We now have a case of "irresponsible" conservative spending I think that's not being kept in check by increasingly one party rule by the neocons. Responsible spending tells me that one is concerned overall about staying within ones's means, and keeping a healthy balance of spending versus gathering revenue to avoid huge accumulated debt, regardless of one's spending priorities.

The rights of minorities isn't consistently one party. I'll grant you that before the 60's, the Republicans in many cases were more concerned about minority rights than the Democrats, when the South was primarily Democrat instead of Republican. But those people switched parties. They still have the same feelings that embodies racism in many instances and have been moving to capture more of the soul of the Republican Party instead. It's now your problem to deal with.

I think Dems want limited "military" foreign engagements, especially something that's more aggressive and trying to promote empire rather than trying to save others from oppression, and keeping us from being threatened. We want more diplomatic engagement with the rest of the world. Republicans want more of the kind of aid that's described in Perkins' "Confeesions of an Economic Hitman" where it appears to be something that builds third world economies up, but in fact builds their debt and dependence on us and multinational corporations so much that we profit more from the excessive interest payments and penalties that are factored into their failed loans (i.e. Argentina, etc.), and make good on them owing us political and other controlling favors by keeping their governments in this debt. Dems I think want to have people and labor more empowered overseas, so that they are less likely to become targets of outsourced labor when they have to sell off their resources (like sugar farmers in some south American countries selling their farms to companies and other financial elites who can't compete against subsided corn syrup based products from us).

There are still consistent differences, and the uglier ones are growing in the Republican Party. I do want to have days return again where we have a "healthy" opposition party, which seeks more to represent another part of the population's interest in a fair manner where we can win a few, lose a few, and compromise to get at solutions that collectively serve a large part of America, without penalizing minorities or future generations. Now we have crooks like Tom Delay and companies like Diebold trying to "cook the books" to artificially take power away from their opposition.

So don't take me wrong with these comments. I actually would like to see more folks like you "take back" your party, to make it something I can respect more again, but its close to going down the road of no return with people like me where "Republican" is a term that I can never respect again, as long as people continue to enable these fascists that are in control of it now. Please stop them if you are able! I still may disagree with such a party in the future, but I won't feel at the point where I'm "at war" with them (which may at some point become very literally that if things continue to go the way they have been going).

[The Doctor.]

72. Yes, you are correct.

I was not suggesting that the parties were diametrically opposed... neccesarily.

My opinion on state's rights is that it adds a great deal to the culture and diversity of the nation.

But I absolutely agree that what the Republican party stands for now is a sickness that will tear at this nation for years to come.

[zippy890]

77. You support the PNAC?

I read your profile.

You believe in the goals of the PNAC?
Just askng, because I believe Wolfewicz, Libby, Rumsfeld, Cheney etc believe in it too, its the neocon idealist vision, is my understanding

[daveskilt]

60. I can respect that

I am not anti republican. I am anti fascist. Bush is a fascist. Neocon is the new fascism. On the PNAC thing though - really? you like that idea? I mean really?

republicans are part of the conversation and part of the checks and balances. I don't see much conversation with bushco.

[The Doctor.]

64. The operative is "Might have supported"...

You are as right to call me on that as anyone.

I truly belive that such a plan could have been implemented without a shot fired or a life lost if the executors of that plan had sophistication, foresight, and a true understanding of consequences.

They undertook a task worthy of far greater men than themselves and with little understanding of the implicit ramifications of failure because they never have had to deal with consequences of their own...

That is why they disgust me.

I understand the nuance of global tactics simply from playing Risk as a teen enough to have seen this disaster coming from a long way off.

These idiots don't have the intellect to play 'global checkers' and win.

[McCamy Taylor]

53. You go, guy!

[Neil Lisst]

54. We don't torture - how difficult is that?

Bush is nuts on this issue.

[triguy46]

56. Are we naive in our hope?

If we are in fact running "black" prisons in eastern europe or any other offshore site, how the hell can we have any confidence that torture is not being used. Keep in mind, 'torture' is unfortunately meant to be different actions by different people, and we might just be buying a pig in a poke here. Remember, the bushies and the neo cons can NEVER be trusted.

[ItsThePeopleStupid]

57. McCain knows how to play the Senate.

He also happens to be sincere in this.

I think the left can learn a lot by how he operates.

[dwightspencer]

62. Torture issue broached in the Senate

I talked with the Case Work Legislative Aid for my member of the House about this very topic and I urge everyone here to do the same. If we don't make noise, they will think they can get away with murder.

[Jed Dilligan]

61. Fuck McCain anyway

I hate him as much as any other Repug.

[prescole]

63. McCain is a radical pinko feminist

outlawing torture and all.

[nolabels]

67. Why is this news, I just thought it was common sense

Oh, but that pesky little patriot act, funny how stupid ideas come back to bite you in ass.

You can go ask your self how much would a patriot act help when they have real riots. If you work against the people long enough eventually they work against you no matter who or what you are. That has been written, recorded and shown as true history through many millennia.

I personally hope Bushco keeps on being stupid like they are as long as possible, we need a good house cleaning of ALL the spineless corrupt weasels that inhabit the beltway

[leesa]

68. This is just stupid grandstanding....the law already exists...enforce it.

[alfredo]

69. It won't be long before Cheney will want to bring the torture

home. You know sooner or later they will think, if we can get away with torturing foreigners, we can get away with doing it at home.

[ArbustoBuster]

71. McCain is a dork, but on this one...go man, go!

[bornagainhuman]

73. Support but be wary

don't let him use this as a spring board into something bigger (like we have never seen that move before from a repuke) so I say give him full support on this issue but be wary of what he tries to do in the future or his attaching this policy to one of a more diabolical nature.

I've been gone for quite a while its good to be back (been underway a lot lately)

[Nothing Without Hope]

75. Related- WaPo: "Cheney Fights for Detainee Policy" (wants "legal" torture)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1906025
thread title (11/7): WaPo 11/7: "Cheney Fights for Detainee Policy" (wants "legal" torture)

This front-page WaPo article, co-authored by the same reporter who broke the secret CIA prison story, is significant on several fronts. Please come read the article and the analysis and join the discussion.

[cleofus1]

76. at times he is such a boob

but today i like him...but i'll still never vote for him...