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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:05 PM
Original message
Cheney Pushes Senate For CIA Exemption (proposed ban on torture)

http://www.wral.com/news/5253390/detail.html

Cheney Pushes Senate For CIA Exemption


WASHINGTON -- Vice President Dick Cheney made an unusual personal appeal to Republican senators this week to allow CIA exemptions to a proposed ban on the torture of terror suspects in U.S. custody, according to participants in a closed-door session.

Cheney told his audience the United States doesn't engage in torture, these participants added, even though he said the administration needed an exemption from any legislation banning "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment in case the president decided one was necessary to prevent a terrorist attack.

The vice president made his comments at a regular weekly private meeting of Senate Republican senators, according to several lawmakers who attended. Cheney often attends the meetings, a chance for the rank-and-file to discuss legislative strategy, but he rarely speaks.

In this case, the room was cleared of aides before the vice president began his remarks, said by one senator to include a reference to classified material. The officials who disclosed the events spoke on condition of anonymity, citing the confidential nature of the discussion.




:wtf:
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Question for 2006 GOP candidates:
Does being Pro-life AND Pro-torture give you a headache?

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Angry Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. This makes him look sooo guilty! He must be terribly scared.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh, that sick, sick Cheney...in case the president decided one was
necessary to prevent a terror attact...What the hell.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Repugnant!
:puke:
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Cheney is just misundersood
Edited on Fri Nov-04-05 05:39 PM by IChing

Cheney has also been criticized for his voting record during his brief tenure as a Congressman from Wyoming in the late 80s. John Nichol , the author of a new biography of Cheney entitled "Dick: The Man Who s President", points out that Cheney was part of the exclusive "less than 10 club": He was among 4 out of 435 congressmen who opposed the Undetectable Firearms Act, which outlawed firearms made out of plastic ; and one of just 8 who took a stand against the Meals on Wheels program for seniors. He also opposed a congressional vote calling for the release of South African political prisoner Nelson Mandella, and the recognition of Martin Luther King Day as a national holiday

Yet a more careful examination of the issues shows that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for each of these rather unpopuler votes cast by Congressman Cheney. With respect to Martin Luther King Day, Cheney simply felt that it minimized Dr. King's accomplishments or suggest that they only be recognized for one day per year (a position which also explains his philosophical opposition to Black History Month

Cheney favored the continued incarceration of Nelson Mandella because he believed that Mandella could do more good fighting racial injustice as a martyr, spending the rest of his life in a prison cell, than he possibly could as President of South Africa>>>snip


http://www.satiricpress.com/sp/archive/2004-10-11/a_dickcheney.asp
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. funny stuff.
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sen Sessions supported Cheney
& McCain dissented.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. What an asshole
That filthy, stinkin' son of a bitch! :grr:
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. "Big time". nt
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. My thoughts exactly!
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. If we don't engage in torture, then there's no problem, right?
Lying asshole.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. Cheney: "US doesn't engage in torture BUT make an exception for CIA."
HUH!!! :wtf: Is he outta' his fuckin' mind? :wtf:
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. And yet, people still support these creepy bastages.
These ghouls are gonna raid the museums for medieval torture devices.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Cheney is certainly sticking out like a stinking pot!
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. i bet the meeting went something like this-----
"Listen shitheads i have files on all of you, i know the names of the hookers and where the bodies are buried so you better vote like i tells ya to vote"
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. What crapper did Cheney crawl out of?
What a fucking turd? Does this guy have no sense of decency?

After outing Valerie Plame he's got the gall to say he's concerned about the CIA in one of the most repugnant ways possible.



:wtf: :argh:
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zara Donating Member (470 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. Except for our torture apparatus, US promises not to torture....
: (
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. Cheney deserves his own treatment he demands
This is amazing!!!

Wilkenson....
"a former senior State Department official claimed in an interview with National Public Radio's "Morning Edition" that he had traced memos back to Cheney's office that he believes led to U.S. troops abusing prisoners in Iraq."

His fingerprints are all over this!

He is running amok!!!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. "in case he decided he needed to"!?!?
Isn't that the EXACT same wording of the Iraq War Resolution? (give him permission in case he needed to)..

HEY YOU SHITHEAD...CUT IT OUT!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Cheney Pushes Senate for CIA Exemption
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051105/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_torture

<snip>

Cheney told his audience the United States doesn't engage in torture, these participants added, even though he said the administration needed an exemption from any legislation banning "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment in case the president decided one was necessary to prevent a terrorist attack.

<snip>

"It was clear to me there that there was a visible audit trail from the vice president's office through the secretary of defense down to the commanders in the field," Lawrence Wilkerson, a former colonel who was Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief of staff during President Bush's first term, said Thursday.

Wilkerson said the view of Cheney's office was put in "carefully couched" terms but that to a soldier in the field it meant sometimes using interrogation techniques that "were not in accordance with the spirit of the Geneva Conventions and the law of war." He said he no longer has access to the paperwork.

Cheney spokeswoman Jennifer Mayfield declined to comment on Wilkerson's remarks.


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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Boy, Cheney just can't give it up
Even when 98% of the Congress supports this ban, he still doesn't get it?

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. CIA should torture Cheney. He's a terrorist responsible for the deaths...
of THOUSANDS!
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
23. So Dick's position is: "Let's ban torture...except when we want to torture
people."

Am I understanding this correctly?
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-04-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. As I said he's just misunderstood
in my earlier post...but the logic is the same.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. I understand Dick. That's why I bought gas masks and
potassium iodate. When this psychopath is impeached, he's going to nuke us all.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. Politicians are good psychologists, but not good enough for me...
Just because they know how to move lots of people in order to win elections, does not mean they know how to get information out of individuals.

Cheney is a self-deluded fool.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
26. In other words all counties in the world must adhere to the rules
except the U.S.
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
27. Only CIA - or other 'wet-job' agencies also?
Today's AP/Guardian report, for example, while headlined "Cheney Seeks CIA Exemption to Torture Ban", refers to "comments at a regular weekly private meeting of Senate Republican senators, according to several lawmakers who attended."

We further read, however, that the exemption is sought in cases of "clandestine counterterrorism operations conducted abroad, with respect to terrorists who are not citizens of the United States," and that "Defense Department personnel could not be involved."

So, does this imply that only the CIA could be involved. What other clandestine, even shadow-government outfits could be referred to here?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5394455,00.html

<snip>

The White House initially tried to kill the anti-torture provision while it was pending in the Senate, then switched course to lobby for an exemption in cases of ``clandestine counterterrorism operations conducted abroad, with respect to terrorists who are not citizens of the United States.'' The president would have to approve the exemption, and Defense Department personnel could not be involved. In addition, any activity would have to be consistent with the Constitution, federal law and U.S. treaty obligations, according to draft changes in the exemption the White House is seeking.

</snip>
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. These people are capable of anything.
Cheney and Rumsfeld love secrecy and you know what secrecy breeds. And they treat CIA AND our military with contempt. In a sense, this whole debate in the Senate is a fig leaf, because this misAdministration is full of arrogant bumbling idiots who believe rules are for other people.

World, we tried really hard. :(
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. I'm guessing the clandestine prison system
has been set up for exaclty these purposes. Please world, help us get rid of this criminal syndicate!
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Trying to help:
Edited on Sat Nov-05-05 12:45 PM by EuroObserver
Well, myself I was never taken in by the spin. But then I've been fortunate enough to be able to devote some time to paying attention ever since the late nineteen-sixties. I well saw what was coming when the Shrub was Selected; then again in relation to his 'government's' rejection of the Kioto accords and Cheney's secret Big-Energy Forum; again post-Sept 11th 2001 ("there's going to be a huge, very dumb, reaction", I remember predicting); and in the late summer of 2002 I could definitively see that there was going to be an invasion of Iraq, with-or-without the UN and that the justification was already being cooked-up. This just from reading the Guardian (international ed.) and selected Spanish press, listening to the BBC (World Service Radio) and browsing not-so-intensively the internet. Ah, and again following the clearly fraudulent re-Selection of Shrub in November 2004, when I became a member of DU. I don't watch TV.

Politics has been defined as the Art of the Possible. Much Art has so far been invested in making the execution of the fundamentally fascist PNAC plan for world domination possible. Many powerful and influential people have been bought or otherwise signed-up to the project, and many, many more have simply been deluded into blind acquiescence.

However, as time goes by, I am seeing more and more signs that more and more people are waking up to reality. This applies not only in non-US countries, cultures and societies (where, however, open opposition to US policy has always been dangerous: more subtle approaches have to be employed), but also in the US itself. In large measure, indeed, given the current balance of overt military and covert, even more sinister, power, it's up to you citizens and voters and defenders of the rule of law in the USA to expel these creatures from the positions they have usurped and to bring them to genuine justice.

The example below, from the UK 'center-left' publication "The New Statesman","The Epic Crime That Dares Not Speak Its Name" by John Pilger, 27 Oct 2005 (and, note, the BLiar UK Downing Street cabal is far from innocent) gives a fine example of a clear-eyed international perspective on these issues.

The above said, I would like to observe that, so far, it would seem that most people who perceive today just how grave these matters are, that concern the USA and the whole world, are of the political center and left-of-center. The natural supporters of what the Democratic Party in the US and social-democratic parties in Europe and the rest of the Americas, as well as non-dictatorial options further to the left and newer constituencies such as Greens and other environmentalists and non-partisan, rational libertarians and neo-anarchists represent. But I believe the time is increasingly upon us when it will be necessary to draw the more traditional, the more sincere right-leaning voters, as well as ordinary loyal administration officials and servicepeople, into the fold of truth. It will be necessary to split the right, to assist those with eyes to see the light. The truly conservative right has been betrayed by a cabal of neo-fascist, highly dishonest, manipulative and authoritarian extremists who in the end will offer only one alternative: obedience or (torture and) death. This is the message to get across. You can be sure there are already blacklists drawn up. There will be many moments of individual epiphany as understanding sweeps across the land. And many people will require deep counselling, a hand of friendship, and spiritual succour.

(Let this count as a first draft towards a draft of an essay I am working on for eventual publication as a stand-alone thread here in DU and elsewhere. Any comments much appreciated: this no doubt requies plenty of expansion and editing...).

The New Statesman, John Pilger article: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10785.htm

<snip>

At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi leadership, counts one and two, "Conspiracy to wage aggressive war and waging aggressive war", refer to "the common plan or conspiracy". These are defined in the indictment as "the planning, preparation, initiation and waging of wars of aggression, which were also wars in violation of international treaties, agreements and assurances". A wealth of evidence is now available that George Bush, Blair and their advisers did just that. The leaked minutes from the infamous Downing Street meeting in July 2002 alone reveal that Blair and his war cabinet knew that it was illegal. The attack that followed, mounted against a defenceless country offering no threat to the US or Britain, has a precedent in Hitler's invasion of Sudetenland; the lies told to justify both are eerily similar.

The similarity is also striking in the illegal bombing campaign that preceded both. Unknown to most people in Britain and America, British and US planes conducted a ferocious bombing campaign against Iraq in the ten months prior to the invasion, hoping this would provoke Saddam Hussein into supplying an excuse for an invasion. It failed and killed an unknown number of civilians.

At Nuremberg, counts three and four referred to "War crimes and crimes against humanity". Here again, there is overwhelming evidence that Blair and Bush committed "violations of the laws or customs of war" including "murder... of civilian populations of or in occupied territory, murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war".

Two recent examples: the US onslaught near Ramadi this month in which 39 men, women and children - all civilians - were killed, and a report by the United Nations special rapporteur in Iraq who described the Anglo-American practice of denying food and water to Iraqi civilians in order to force them to leave their towns and villages as a "flagrant violation" of the Geneva Conventions.

In September, Human Rights Watch released an epic study that documents the systematic nature of torture by the Americans, and how casual it is, even enjoyable. This is a sergeant from the US Army's 82nd Airborne Division: "On their day off people would show up all the time. Everyone in camp knew if you wanted to work out your frustration you show up at the PUC tent. In a way it was sport... One day a sergeant shows up and tells a PUC to grab a pole. He told him to bend over and broke the guy's leg with a mini Louisville Slugger that was a metal bat. He was the fucking cook!"

The report describes how the people of Fallujah, the scene of numerous American atrocities, regard the 82nd Airborne as "the Murdering Maniacs". Reading it, you realise that the occupying force in Iraq is, as the head of Reuters said recently, out of control. It is destroying lives in industrial quantities when compared with the violence of the resistance.

</snip>

Note 1. On 'Conspiracy to wage aggressive war and waging aggressive war' see eg. "John W. Dean: 'A Cheney-Libby conspiracy, or worse?" - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x170559
Note 2. On the illegality of same, see: "US Navy JUDGE: Iraq war ILLEGAL" - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5273365
Note 3. On the US policy of torture, see: "Another Thunderbolt from Wilkerson" - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5265905
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. No comments so far. Many thanks n/t
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. double post (nt)
Edited on Sat Nov-05-05 07:26 PM by Marie26
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Double post #27? ref. please - double where? n/t
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. How could torture possibly be consistent w/US Const., law & treaties?
I don't understand this last sentence: "In addition, any activity would have to be consistent with the Constitution, federal law and U.S. treaty obligations, according to draft changes in the exemption the White House is seeking."

Like the Constitution's 8th Amen. against "cruel and unusual punishment," the federal laws against assault & murder, or the Geneva Convention treaty against "cruel & degrading treatment" of prisoners? How can Bush say on one hand that they want torture; then say only if it's consistent w/these laws? It isn't legal. That's the point. This administration makes my head hurt. :crazy: Was that last sentence just some weasel words to reassure people? Like "Oh, OK - as long as it's legal torture...."
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Ah, ok, now I see you Marie26. I think you're right,
Edited on Sat Nov-05-05 09:42 PM by EuroObserver
Thanks. This, I believe, is serious (or if you prefer, series, whatever: go back to school, y'all). This stuff is indeed screwing with our heads and our hearts.

Over here in W.Europe we received the message a while ago loud and clear (and I good guess the rest of the world also, goddammit - bear with me, tryin' to speak a common language here): there's INTERNATIONAL LAW (when we say so) for YOU, but it doesn't apply to US, because WE SAY SO - and we are no longer walking quietly with thaa big stick in abeyance: we want you all to know that: WE CARRY BIG GUNS - and what's more, we're trigger-happy, goddamit, who gives a shit anyway... we even have completely crazy people in charge of that big trigger ...etc.

Sorry, I did drink some fine wine over dinner a short while ago...

(also ref. Billy Bob Thornton in Jim Jarmusch's 'Dead Man', <smile>)

ed: sorry again: You said: "I don't understand this last sentence: "In addition, any activity would have to be consistent with the Constitution, federal law and U.S. treaty obligations, according to draft changes in the exemption the White House is seeking."" My answer: Weasel words. It seems these people, (read Nº 1 Cheney, don't believe your Constitution applys to THEM.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
30. Cheney is just trying to subtley remind them why they shouldnt talk about
impeachment.
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