Las Vegas mayor: Cut off thumbs of graffiti artists

[Newsjock]

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2005/nov/03/110310216.html

ASSOCIATED PRESS

RENO, Nev. (AP) - Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman has suggested that those who deface freeways with graffiti should have their thumbs cut off on television.

Goodman, appearing Wednesday on the "Nevada Newsmakers" television show, said, "In the old days in France, they had beheading of people who commit heinous crimes.

... "I'm saying maybe you put them on TV and cut off a thumb," the mayor added. "That may be the right thing to do."

Goodman also suggested that whippings or canings should be brought back for children who get into trouble.

... "They would get a trial first," he added.

more

[400Years]

1. How 'bout we shut down gambling!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

143. Why?

[Hekate]

145. The mayor seems to be going after sinners and lawbreakers...

...paradoxically so, in Sin City.

What a jerk. Possibly inspired by Singapore's floggings and our own Vice President for Torture.

Hekate

[whatever4]

2. Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman has suggested that those who deface freeways

he ought to to jail just for suggesting it. I know, free speech and all, but still. That's not just cruel and inhumane, it's a destruction of what I view as a particularly unique American art form. What a friggin jerk. God. Graffiti is beautiful, though might not always be appropriate or legal, it's not something anyone should want to make disappear. What a horrible man and a racist.

[wrathofkahn]

6. Racist?

I see nothing in this story that indicates anything about race.

[whatever4]

70. yeaaaaaaaaaaah

but, we both know this is an African American issue, don't we? I mean, to me, to disregard it like that has heavy racist overtones. But, you're right, he didn't come right out and say anything racist.

Guess that means there is no racism. No, not here...

[progressivebydesign]

93. Most taggers I see are not one particular race.

Are you suggesting, whatever4, that blacks are responsible for vandalism? That sounds pretty racist right there.

[wrathofkahn]

95. Took the words right out of my mouth.

[arwalden]

156. Thank You

:thumbsup:

[LetsGoMurphys]

160. From my experience taggers tend to be white n/t

[msongs]

33. can I tatoo stuff on your face...since it is "beautiful'?

putting your crap on your stuff is beautiufl. putting it on my stuff without my permission is immoral and unethical.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

PS - for the record I do not think vandals should have their thumbs removed.

[400Years]

50. freeways and overpasses are not people's faces

every revolution that has ever happened has had graffiti as an element

but since you can't tell the difference between your face and the pavement don't bitch when people step on it.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchtv]

40. your right to bad taste

ends at my line of vision

[whatever4]

73. and yours as well

my bad taste? I see here we're as American as anyone.

Why is something so popular "my bad taste"?

Interesting.

[mitchtv]

84. Generic "you"

second person plural, nothing personal, sorry, its an old quote

[Rich Hunt]

109. your right to your opinion

ends with my subjectivity.

Much of the graffiti I've seen IS quite competent.

You're welcome to think it's not 'beautiful' but that is subjective and it's also irrelevant to the real issues such as:

1) is graffiti moral or ethical
2) should graffiti artists have their thumbs cut
off on live television

I had a feeling this would degenerate into a discussion about the aesthetic merits of graffiti.

[ErisFiveFingers]

150. What next?

"Your right to free speech ends at my line of vision"?

Tagging or decorating *public* property, by the *public*, should be legal.

[Chan790]

177. I find that

line of thought to be offensive. Who ever gave anybody the right to not confronted with uncomfortable or ugly images or thoughts involuntarially? In fact the absence of such a right is vital to the exposure and combat of true evil in the world.

Edit: It's also vitial to the sustained existance of well-ordered democracy.

[Colorado Blue]

58. I agree with you, about the art. About the 1st Amendment,

he could maybe be charged with a hate crime for talking like this?

Let's put it this way: we respect his 1st Amendment rights to say horrible things, he has to respect the 1st Amendment rights of artists.

[whatever4]

74. I agree with you too

sad there's such a low appreciation for contemporary art around here, isn't it?

But we're not racist...

man this sucks

[rinsd]

63. "particularly unique American art form"

Have your property gang tagged sometime. Its not about art but about territory.

[whatever4]

77. It IS art, no matter what it's purpose

and I've seen some that is breathtakingly beautiful.

I've seen ugly brick buildings and boring overpasses that are more beautiful for it. If I'm just simple, so be it. I don't know shit about the visual arts. I do know something that intricate and that powerful is worth something better than being called "scum"

I think people will be eating their words in 20 years.

[rinsd]

97. Really?

A gang defacing your property because they consider it their territory is art?

Ever try repaiting a fence in the exact color you did 10 years ago?

Ever have to repaint said fence numerous times?

Are there lovely murals painted by graffiti artists? Certainly and most often with the permission of the property owner. I've seen great one in LA and a few here in San Diego.

But those are far and few between compared to gang tags and "Joanie loves Chachi" types.

[ErisFiveFingers]

151. Is "your" property a freeway?

[MarsThe Cat]

170. yes- it's PUBLIC property- it "belongs" to everyone-

and through our elected representatives, we have set up certain laws to as to what is and isn't acceptable as far as it's use is concerned.

[rinsd]

174. Reading comprehension is good.....

Where did I claim the freeways were mine?

I was discussing the "unique american art form" that is graffitti and my experiences with it.

Oh and while we're on the subject the freeways belong to all of us, not the artist. "We" pay the cost of re-painting.

[ISUGRADIA]

144. yeah, some is good, keith haring started with graffitti as an example

but 95% of the stuff I see here in Minneapolis is SHIT. Tagging is not art. I'm not going to call the good ones scum but those who scratch, acid windows, do lame tagging and fuck over people's private property have no respect for others and should be arrested and fined.

Oh, and those "artists" who change one way signs around to the wrong way or paint over stop signs (as I have seen in my neighborhood) they are SCUM!

[Rich Hunt]

110. wrong

Not all graffiti is 'gang-tagging'.


And I had no idea you owned the freeways of Las Vegas!

Do own all of the urban transit systems, too?

[rinsd]

116. I live in San Diego....

...and gang tags are the predominant form of graffiti with murals and more artistic endeavors a rare entity.

It's not about the freeways. Its about the houses,the fences,the bldgs etc. things that people own...not public spaces. Though I'm not crazy about having to pay for repainting because some jerkoff wanted to declare his love for a girl via the freeway.

[mitchtv]

131. same here in Coachella Valley

scribbling by adolescents- no art to be found Growing up in NYC I was treated to the virtual destruction of everything inside and out of the subway cars including maps, seats etc. They painted over the fucking maps! that is vandalism so is anything that defaces public or (anyone elses) private property

[rinsd]

175. Yup.....

at least the NY taggers tended to be a bit more artistic....not that the bar was set very high ;-)

[fishwax]

169. it actually is about the freeways (n/t)

[rinsd]

173. Well.....

the discussion diverged on this thread to graffitti in general not the graffitti specifically in Las Vegas.

[fishwax]

184. It diverged? As in, it had a will of its own?

You wouldn't have any idea who effected the divergence, would you? ;) (he asked good naturedly :))

The posts you responded to were about the freeways, and nobody in this branch was talking about how graffiti on personal/private property is a great thing. I do understand your frustration with having personal property vandalized, though.

[AngryAmish]

69. People who graffiti are scum

They think they have a right to use public property for their own "expression".

You know, they never have to think about the poor guy who has to get up and clean up their mess. They consider these "little people" as sub-human and unworthy of equal rights. Graffiti artists are bigots of the first order.

[whatever4]

79. Why don't they

If it's public, why don't they have any right for that?

I'm not justifying it as something someone has to clean up. I started out with saying I know it isn't always legal or ethical. I think it's wrong to disrespect it as an art form, to be hateful about it, and to want it basically "stomped OUT" of all our communties. I think that's wrong. In fact, I think that's insane.

[AngryAmish]

89. Same reason I don't have the right to take a stapler from the library

If it is for the use of all the public one person does not have a right to convert it to private use.

There is very nice furniture in the Lincoln bedroom. It would look good at my place. But I can't go and take it because it is for the use of the entire country.

[400Years]

91. people can still use the overpass, so your anology is not appropriate

get a new one

[rinsd]

117. Yes but they also have to pay for it to be re-painted (nt)

[400Years]

159. only because people whine about grafitti

[rinsd]

176. Where do you live?

I ask because we seem to have very different impressions of graffitti.

I live in San Diego, where its gang tags and scribbles to mark territory. This is done on people's apartment bldgs, businesses, fences etc.

The tags I see on public property are much the same.

We're not speaking of art, we're talking a "San Dimas High School Football Rules" mentality.

[_testify_]

182. nice Bill & Ted's reference!

[400Years]

81. whatever dude!

[mitchtv]

132. I notice this is not in English

Grafitti to give voice to the disenfranchised is a honored tradition in Latin countries. The boobs in this country doing it, couldn't find their home state on a map

[400Years]

83. Is this woman "scum"?

[AngryAmish]

85. If it is her wall or if she has permission then no

Otherwise yes.

[400Years]

90. in your little mind maybe

but I applaud her and everyone else that tries to make a difference.

[AngryAmish]

92. Why are you calling me names?

[Rich Hunt]

112. irony

Why did you call that woman 'scum'?

[AngryAmish]

133. Painting things that are not yours is scummy

[400Years]

158. so to you property rights trump the struggle for freedom

In every struggle for freedom against despotic regimes across the globe all property has been claimed by those in power while the powerless have nothing. As far as you are concerned, these people should just bend over and take it since "they don't own" anything.

[Rich Hunt]

113. so are landlords

...who don't respect the rights of the lower-class people who live in their buildings.

So are people who fail to respect the rights of those who don't own property.

[Raine]

147. I agree

it's a stupid and very selfish 'expression' which they bully onto the rest of us who have to look at their butt-ugly markings. They're like dogs who have to pee all over everything to mark their turf. x(

[Nihil]

149. Exactly right!

> They're like dogs who have to pee all over everything to mark their turf.

:toast:

[aden_nak]

3. That's what you get in the "kneecap breaking" society of Vegas.

"VEGAS BABY!"

[mark11727]

16. What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas...

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. I can't even think of anything to say.

[skypilot]

5. I don't know about cutting off thumbs but...

...I'm all for some sort of harsh punishment for graffiti "artist". I hate that shit. And in my city they've taken to using that acid shit that eats into glass so they will leave their "tags" on the windows of area business, including some small businesses that have just opened. It makes me livid just thinking about it. Give me a couple years and I might just get behind the thumbs idea.

[400Years]

15. Graffiti Rocks!

A true form of popular expression.

[skypilot]

24. Until it shows up on YOUR home or business.

*

[400Years]

48. Yes let's have a jihad

[skypilot]

52. What????

Because I don't want crap sprayed on my house or etched into my windows that makes me some kind of unreasonable freak?

[400Years]

62. no, your categorical statements do

not all grafitti is done on your house or private property. In fact, the vast majority of it is done on overpasses, sidewalks, etc.
There is an effort to stamp out all but official forms of communication
and I don't want to see people persecuted for trying to circumvent the dominant voices.

I don't think spray painting your house is a good thing and I don't advocate that but I also don't endorse what this jackass said and he was referring to overpasses.

[skypilot]

66. categorical statements???

You mean like:

"...the vast majority of it is done on overpasses, sidewalks, etc." ???

Maybe that's where the "vast majority" of it is where you live (and I don't think that graffiti covered overpasses and sidewalks are anything to dismiss) but in my city we have more than our share of graffiti on people's homes and businesses. And like I indicated in my first post some of these jerks aren't satisfied with spray paint and markers. They used etching acid on people's windows so that the glass has to be replaced altogether.

I'm not for cutting off anyone's thumbs or for "stamping out all but official forms of communication" (that was a bit overdramatic by the way) but I don't want some jackasses "tag" sprayed or etched all over my neighborhood either.

[400Years]

72. I know what you are saying

and I don't condone vandalism either but I am saying that
grafitti has always been a form of mass communication that
bypasses the usual channels of censorship.

I'm against damaging homes and businesses as are you but
categorically condemning grafitti is not a good thing.
They are using it, as we speak, to fight against bush's visit
to Argentina.

[skypilot]

80. graffiti as a form of mass communication.

You must be getting exposed to a different type of graffiti where you live. Where I live, there is nothing about the graffiti to indicate that it is an attempt to communicate with the masses. If anything, it is graffiti artists communicating with each other or a way for a "tagger" to say, "_______ was here." Maybe graffiti serves a purpose in Argentina but in general I don't look at graffiti-free walls, sidewalks, overpasses and windows as a form of censorship.

[400Years]

82. Yes

[brentspeak]

98. With the internet

people can communicate to the masses without defacing the neighborhood. And if someone wants to express their thoughts visually -- there's always the canvas.

[Rich Hunt]

114. yeah, well good luck getting into the market

If you're the wrong color or class.

And canvasses cost money.

If you really care about stamping out that nasty graffiti,
why don't you be a good fair liberal and seek out the
root causes of it instead of making the callous assumption
that every lower-class urban kid can afford canvasses
and - for god's sake - oil paints!

Do you have any idea how EXPENSIVE that crap is?

No wonder people tag your property - you could be
a little more aware of what life is like for
those who don't own property and who are not
'in the club'. Because you aggrieved property
owners know damn well what 'the club' is.

Do try to make your argument without betraying
that you have any understanding as to what life
is like for the majority of urbanites who aren't
fortunate enough to own property.

[brentspeak]

123. Good grief

I don't subscribe to the "Express Your Inner Liberal Guilt/Discover The Root Causes" newsletter. Also: are you the elected spokesperson of "urbanites"?

As for the topic at hand: People don't spray paint trains because they can't afford canvases. In addition, there are plenty of "urbanites" who do obtain art supplies; you can see people on the streets of NYC selling their portraits to passerbys everyday.

[zonmoy]

138. what if you are too poor to access the internet or

simply dont have a computer which many poor people dont.

[AllyCat]

172. Hmm...like the spray painted gobblety-gook on our FRONT window

and on the business right next door. You mean those overpasses? Oh yeah, and they tagged the newspaper vending machine across the street. And our sidewalk just this summer. Oh yeah, and every single train car that passes through our neighborhood has tags on it too.

Communication? You can't even read this crap. It's territorial pissing, not communcication. And for God's sake it ain't art.

Leaving indelible marks on private and public property without the owner's permission is not communication. It's vandalism

That said, I do not advocate cutting off the people's thumbs. That's just freakish and immoral.

[RobertSeattle]

30. So is Farting

[400Years]

47. no that is a biological necessity

[wrathofkahn]

106. What do you cut off if someone farts too much?

:7

[rinsd]

119. Rectum?

Damn near killed 'em.

[RobertSeattle]

130. That's where the thumb goes...

[mitchtv]

41. to bad it has gotten so far from its roots

political expression for the disenfranchised. right now it is pollution, and very little displays any talent.

[400Years]

45. yep, it has always played an important part in creating social change

there might be alot of hacks out there using it but
it is an effective tool for communication and deserves some respect.

[mitchtv]

51. it deserves none in the USA

It is NEVER used except to scribble, and an occaisional artist, but Poltical or social truths are not the concern of the vandals that practice it here. LaPaz/Montevideo is where you see good grafitti

[400Years]

61. I see really good stuff everyday in my city

lots of intelligent political and agit-prop type stuff but I live in a place where there are cool people trying to make a difference despite the lockdown on most forms of communication.

[mitchtv]

86. send them down here

nothing but adolescent scribbling here. I haven't seen any political grafitti for a long time. I love the freway blogger, less destructive.

[progressivebydesign]

94. It doesn't rock. It destroys.

While I think that some people who do grafitti are talented, in some way. They really need to find an outlet that doesn't destroy other people's property. It's not okay to deface anything that does not belong to you... it's not fair.

[Rich Hunt]

115. of course if you're a renter

And some wealthy landowner has a beef with you, they can always hire some 'gang-member' to go into your apartment and pour ink on your rug.

After all it happened to me. But I've been told I don't have a right to complain, since I am a mere renter and therefore I don't have rights to privacy.

Must be nice.

[SoCalDem]

7. um.. aren't spray cans operated with forefingers?

:thumbsup:

[wrathofkahn]

10. Try holding one without your thumb.

Or, holding anything else, for that matter.

[skypilot]

11. Yeah, but...

...the thumb wraps around the can.

[SoCalDem]

21. he heh..you are right.. Can you tell I have never held a spray can

:)

[skypilot]

25. never held a spray can?

I think I love you.

As I look at some of the buildings in my neighborhood I wish there were more people who'd never held one.

[SoCalDem]

27. I hate aerosol cans... But my husband uses wd-40 in the garage

and he has been known to use RAID.. I love my kitties too much to spray anything inside the house :) I kill ants with a wet washcloth or windex:)

[skypilot]

35. GASP!!!! The horror!!

You kill ANTS?!?!

In that case, I can no longer correspond with you. :-(



:) :) :)

[SoCalDem]

39. but but but...only the "killer ants" . and the ones who continually ignore

my orders to LEAVE at ONCE !.. they had it coming.. they were warned:)

[skypilot]

53. Oh. OK.

Carry on then.:)

[goforit]

8. A little drastic eh?

[SillyGoose]

9. He should use his head for something other than a hat rack....ROFLMAO!!

Another panelist on the show, Howard Rosenberg, a state university system regent, responded by saying that cutting off the thumbs of taggers won't solve the problem and Goodman should "use his head for something other than a hat rack."

This Goodman fellow sounds like a first-class loon.

[MissB]

12. Cool! Can we bring back stonings and burning at the stake too?

:eyes:

[Angry Girl]

29. What about oubliettes? And the rack?

URGENT! Timing is critical to save earthquake victims before winter!

[mitchtv]

44. see Gw Bush for those implements

[rodeodance]

13. talk like this dangerous!!

[Flagg]

14. Las Vegas wanna be like Iran

cute...

[stopbush]

17. Goodman's a Democrat, you know.

[MissB]

23. And I don't particularly care what political party he hails from

His idea is horrifying.

[NYC Liberal]

31. Your point...?

[AlCzervik]

32. and so is Zell Miller, doesn't mean he isn't an idiot.

[truebrit71]

37. So what? It's still a stupid thing to say. You see, this is what confuses.

..rethuglicans more than anything else. It is the ability for Democrats to criticise and attack a fellow Democrat if they say something ridicilous.

The repuklicans walk in ABSOLUTE lockstep and NEVER criticise another repiglican.

A blessing and a curse at the same time...

[mcscajun]

102. Not surprising from a former mob mouthpiece...

...it's a mob kind of punishment.

I hope all sane Democrats roundly denounce him, as he should be. Let's not leave this to the Republicans.

[endarkenment]

46. Idiot is as idiot does. EOM.

[stopbush]

75. Goodman is great on some issues, really bad on others.

He's outspoken and often mis-speaks. What he isn't is the typical politician who candy coats every statement and weighs everything he says as to not upset this or that person.

Yes, he was a mob lawyer. In this country even mobsters have rights.

As mayor of Las Vegas, he has turned that city from a mob-dominated town to a mega-corporate dominated town. Each has their evils, of course. But Vegas is prospering like never before. The state of NV has no income tax because the revenues from Vegas keep the state going. I recently relocated to CA from LV. Two weeks ago I got a $300 refund check from NV for my car registration - a statewide program to give tax revenues back to the citizens of NV. At a time when most cities and states are flailing, LV & NV are prospering, though much of that prosperity is based on the shattered dreams and imaginings of others.

Their schools are hit and miss. They pay teachers shit but spend tons on buildings and computers. They have one of the best school music programs in the country.

I'm sure his comments on graffiti are related to the increasing population explosion and gang-related crime/violence that is now hitting Vegas.

Oscar Goodman is no saint, but I'll take his occasional provocative statement over the mealy mouthed utterances of most politicos.


BTW - I lived for a long time in NYC, and I'm one of those who tends to consider graffiti to be vandalism, not art. That said, some graffiti IS art, just like some music is great music, some music is run of the mill...and some music is absolute shit.

[AlCzervik]

18. he's the same guy that told a group of grade school children that if he

were marooned on an island he'd want a bottle of booze with him and that drinking was one of his hobbies.

[stopbush]

67. Well, he's honest. Inappropriate, but honest.

[Renew Deal]

19. Saudi America

:evilfrown:

[darkism]

122. My first thought, too. n/t

[pitohui]

20. maybe you can take the man out of the mob

but you can't take the mob out of the man

[meganmonkey]

22. This guy is a fricking maniac

Nothing he does surprises me.

Former mob lawyer. Without naming names, I went to college with someone in his family and I got to see Pulp Fiction before it was in the theaters. And smoke a lot of really good weed }(

[QuettaKid]

34. DIdn't he used to work in the astronaut program?

Wasn't he Steve Austin's boss...??

[bullimiami]

26. there is a lot of illegal prostitution in NV and a lot of adultery with

the legal prostitutes. How about cutting something else off on TV. A lot of politicians and celebs would be caught with their pants down.

[raccoon]

166. Sounds like that'd be the next logical step, according

to the Mayor's (convoluted) thinking.

[truebrit71]

28. Another fine 13th century thinker like Rick Sanitarium...

...:eyes:

[Brotherjohn]

36. But Las Vegas is one big piece of graffiti!

Not to dis anyone who lives there... but looking at the strip, and hearing this guy complain (so pre-historically) about graffiti... cognitive dissonance, anyone?

[Metta]

38. Why not just eat them?

Johnathan Swift had similar ideas about getting rid of the poor.

[geniph]

42. How 'bout we put elected officials who make stupid pronouncements

in the frigging pillory for a day, so people can pelt them with rotten fruit and manure?

:mad:

What a tool.

[endarkenment]

43. Voltaire just rolled over in his grave. eom.

[MGKrebs]

49. Cut off the thumb of the artist that did this?

Or this?

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchtv]

135. Ha , they defaced the on thing that made sense

[progressivebydesign]

96. Did they own the property they decorated?

Hey.. it's interesting work. But if it's not on property you own or paid to decorate, then it's vandalism. Sad, but true.

[MGKrebs]

105. I understand that.

It's the cutting off the thumbs part I have a problem with.

I remember looking at the official website for Marseille a while back, and they had a photo essay of the grafitti at the port, some of it profane. But they showed it anyway.

There will always be some small segment of the population that must find a way to rebel. Perhaps most of us have gone through a similar period in our lives. Permanently maiming people - presumably to deter others?- for a non-violent act of public art will not change this, and will likely make it worse.

Massive retaliation for minor offenses against society is the mantra of some idealogical groups: Prevention through Punishment I guess. I have come to view things differently.

[Rich Hunt]

118. exactly

Funny. I thought liberalism sought to understand the causes of such activity. I guess not. I mean, it might help some people to eradicate their graffiti problem if they tried to understand why it happens.

[nookiemonster]

152. What an insane point of view.

Ok, I haven't had the "charmed" life and I feel that I need to express. I'm gonna grab me a few spray cans and express myself on your property. That's ok, right? I'm just expressing my views and I'm sure you'd understand. Am I following you so far? Do you understand how ridiculous this sounds?

:wtf:

Grafitti is vandalism if you do it to other's property without consent. Period.

I will agree that the mayor is a dumbass for making that statement regarding the "thumbs". Of course it's impossible for you to agree on that without going into a tirade about liberalism and throwing out non-sequiturs.

[MGKrebs]

179. So you would be for capital punishment for all crimes?

[nookiemonster]

185. Explain to me how, you parsed that out of my post?

Anytime you're ready. I'm waiting.

[davidinalameda]

54. anyone else think that he's been out in the sun a little too long

:shrug:

[Colorado Blue]

55. This guy is out of his mind. EOM

[truthisfreedom]

57. that's right mayor, get Draconian on their asses. what a burka-boy.

knuckle-dragging us at light-speed into the distant past.

[Strawman]

59. Maybe he should run for Mayor of Tehran

That's absurd.

Guess that's how one gets law and order cred, by spouting that kind of nonsense as opposed to voicing pragmatic solitions to crime.

[MisterP]

111. it's not just lawanorda cred, it's the core principle

[Colorado Blue]

60. I think a better solution would be to provide space for graffiti

artists to create and showcase their work. This has been done in many major cities.

However, this goes with the understanding that other people's homes and businesses, etc, should be off limits. It won't stop unwanted graffiti altogether but there is so much beauty that is never seen and underappreciated, and I see no reason why artists shouldn't be encouraged wherever they live and work.

[sendero]

64. Yeah..

... and let's cut the tongues out of politicians who say stupid shit.

That would certainly cut down the noise level, now wouldn't it :)

[raccoon]

164. Way to go, sendero! nt

[slampoet]

65. How does a surface in Vegas become "Defaced"?

...the only way to deface something in Vegas, is to take it to Reno.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

68. Is this guy a member of the Taliban or something?

I suspect an action like this would only create more prolific graffiti artists.

[phusion]

76. If you live with graffiti long enough it disappears after a while...

This city is full of graffiti but I don't really notice it anymore. I've come to ignore it like all the billboards advertising stuff...

[sofa king]

78. Can you stil pull a slot machine with no thumbs?

[neuvocat]

87. How about cutting out his tongue for hate speech?

We don't have to stop at thumbs with his kind of logic after all.

[Sandpiper]

88. Graffiti = Bad, Gambling & Hookers = Good

Ahh, Las Vegas morality.

[pschoeb]

99. Hey Goodman, lay off the gin!!

I know you get it for free, but drinking a fifth of gin every hour will cause you to have bizarre ideas.

[LostinRed]

100. Please Goodman is a Media Whore

First of all Mayor Goodman is a media whore that loves to say outlandish things for shock value. Second, graffiti can be a form of artistic expression but that is certainly the exception most of it is just plain vandalism. I live in South Vegas and there is a lot of graffiti and trust me these "artist" aren't activist or artist creating murals nor are they trying to make some kind of expression of speech. It is just plain vandalism by a bunch of stupid little rich kids with nothing better to do.

[Daylin Byak]

104. Some grafitti is good

Like if it's grafitti picture of an american flag or a grafitti picture of kids or people working. that is totally fine and acceptable.

But the grafitti that I hate, that is totally dispectable and that most people are fimliar with is the one where people basically draw lines, stupid or inaproppiate words or gang art.

that stuff should not be tolerated.

[Initech]

101. Isnt this how they punish offenders in the middle east?

[Endangered Specie]

103. Ok, so that may be a bit harsh, but they do deserve hefty punishment...

I prefer the 'spray-paint-back-in-their-faces' idea (like in the Naked Gun).

You are not allowed to deface other people's property! If you want to spray paint something, it had better be something you own, otherwise the "first amendment" doesnt apply.

And don't give me shit about graffiti thugs being "artists" or "artistic expression", thats like calling a garbage man a "sanitation engineer". If that is what passes for art these days, no wonder most people think modern art is utter crap. Most of the vandalism is from immature troublemakers or gangs.

[CreekDog]

107. Graffiti on public/private property is a form of stealing

It's appropriating property that belongs to someone or everybody else and using it for your own purpose without compensation. The fact that it's done by people of little means does not in itself make it more valid.

As a form of expression, it's not political or social speech, but rather the markings of local gangs, who don't even respect each other's property, much less their right to exist in peace. Or, it's simply the scrawlings of individuals who place value on people seeing their signature.

I hate graffiti of this sort. It's insulting to real artists to lump "tagging" in with those who paint beautiful murals on buildings here in the Mission of SF or other places.

[Rich Hunt]

120. do people EVER ask why?

Do they ask why graffiti artists do what they do?

And no - I live in a city. Most of the graffiti I see is NOT 'tagging'.

Do people EVER ask why it occurs.

Conversely, do people ever ask WHY some guy now thinks
it's a good idea to cut off their thumbs?

No, people don't ask why anymore.

They just shut their doors and fail to take
responsibility for the communities they live in.

[AngryAmish]

167. So do I

Did you want Player Dog to rest in peace or rot in hell? And what was this artistic message?

Some stats from City Hall: "Since this program began in late April of 1993, more than 900,000 buildings have been cleaned of graffiti. The City has also hired 16 painters with paint vans to help in the battle. These crews usually work on the garages and any other painted surface they may come in contact with."

and

Another anti-graffiti program in Chicago is called Give Graffiti the Brush. This initiative offers city-purchased paint to any block club or other community agency willing to cover over graffiti on wood or other painted surfaces unsuited for the soda machines. Since its inception in 1990, more than 200,000 gallons of paint have been distributed by the City of Chicago through this program.

Multiation is bad but graffiti is also.

[ohiosmith]

108. Thumbs, index fingers, and knee cap the fucks.

[raccoon]

165. What do you mean? nt

[sakabatou]

121. Next thing you know, public beheadings will be with us again!

:sarcasm:

[pinniped]

124. If they deface endangered desert tortoises they should be strung up.

--We have desert tortoises and beautiful paintings of flora and fauna. These punks come along and deface it.--

[anotherdrew]

125. and let's cut off the lips of shitforbrained mayors

goodman - you are now on notice

[lutefisk]

126. It's intimidation, not art.

If anyone wants to make a blanket statement that "graffiti" is art, they are being incredibly naive. Either that or they never lived in Vegas and had gang graffiti regularly spray painted on her or his home, along with the occasional gunshots to accompany the artistic expression.

It's the only form of "art" that I have ever censored, and while armed, no less. It was a constant battle, but if you have ever had a gang attempt to intimidate your family and claim your property, you might understand. This is an area where I have very, very little tolerance, and can see where kooky Oscar is coming from.

All graffiti is not "public art."

[NashVegas]

127. Here's a Great Gaffiti Website

http://www.picturesofwalls.com/

Of course it's vandalism. It's defiance. And it strikes me as a little amusing that there are people who call themselves "progressive," who are so hung up on the sanctity of undefaced public and private property that they don't see the connection between their preference for clamping down on unapproved expression and the overbearing corporate governance we're all operating under.

[annabanana]

171. great site!

Worth the tour!

[WhiteTara]

128. Sounds like Oscar is a control freak

and I would bet that we would find some disturbing things about the man if we look deeply. THen we could cane him, cut off his thumbs and hold him up for public ridicule. That would be fair wouldn't it?

[madmark]

129. Thumb removal is a bit extreme, couldn't the Mayor just start off

with public stocks and a sign explaining the offense. I think people walking down the Strip would get a kick out of it.

[CornField]

134. Finally! Something to be thankful for today

I'm not a direct part of that idiot's gene pool.

[struggle4progress]

136. What does Goodman think about smashing people's heads with rocks ..

.. when they say something stupid and disagreeable?

[showpan]

137. I live in Vegas

and Oscar is referring to an ever increasing gang presence in a way he normally does, with tongue and cheek. It's not racist at all, although it is a race problem. Mostly mexican, who make up the largest percentage.
The gangs are tagging anything they want and it's costing us plenty. It's not just the obvious cost that's disturbing, it's also the growing crime rate associated with the increase in gang membership. Not only does tagging cost money, it costs lives as violence usually erupts when one gang moves into another territory usually with the first signs of....tagging. It also costs more and more of our resources which are slowly being drained by our own federal government and Oscar, who has been doing an excellent job, is frustrated to the point of making extreme comments about extreme behavior.
Sure you could throw him under the bus for saying such things, but then, we could have a mayor who marches to the beat of the neocon, quietly sneaking around behind the scenes tagging our constitution.
The prostitution point was weak as there is just as much going on in any city all across this country, maybe people think that the majority of it is here because of the legal brothels....lol
I wonder how hard it would be to hold a 9mm without your thumb...lol

[GrpCaptMandrake]

139. Lotsa flames and so forth

but for my part, I found the most disgusting part of this "public official's" little diatribe his inclusion of children, via his desire to bring back beatings and canings. Sick bastard! That's straight out of James Dobson's "beat a child till he cries real tears" textbook.

Also, I'm making a bold assumption that Oscar Goodman is a Repiglican. Correct?

:banghead:

[fujiyama]

140. I can think of a certain country

where they still have public beheadings...and they cut off body parts...

Maybe this guy would like a one way trip to Saudi Arabia.

[alcibiades_mystery]

141. Graffiti isn't for you

There are no graffiti artists, only graffiti writers. Wanna hook up a straight letter on the Clearview? Take a lesson from MIRAGE (rest in peace):



Moralize all you want. We don't care. Fuck legal graffiti. Rock your fill-ins:



Wreck shop.

[lwin]

142. He was Meyer Lansky's lawyer

Why are you guys surprised? He was a mob lawyer for many years, most notably, Meyer Lansky's. You know Meyer...grew up and was partners with Bugsy Siegel, Lucky Luciano...the original Murder Inc?

All that aside, Goodman is supposedly a good mayor. Go figure.

[depakid]

146. Well, the mob ran Vegas better than the corporate racketeers

who now own the place.

[Nihil]

148. Nah, just spray paint the bastard's face dayglo pink ...

... and tax aerosol paint!

[Solly Mack]

154. Gee, can we cut out tongues when people say something stupid?

Cause being stupid really ought to hurt.

[rodeodance]

155. he should worry more about where LV will be getting its water.

[MadisonProgressive]

157. Has to be a repuke

[Nevernose]

161. Democrat with an 85% approval rating, even among Republicans

He was joking.

[MadisonProgressive]

181. I don't know...

I just saw the interview on CNN and he looked dead serious - he even said he was when asked. I will not be like the pukes and sweep things like this under the rug just because he's in my preferred political party.

[raccoon]

162. What that SOB says sounds fricking MEDIEVAL.

What a complete a-hole. I'd consider that "cruel and unusual punishment."

[revree]

163. Cut off dicks of adulterers? Boy, that might worry him, eh?

Let's see if we can dig up dirt on this idiot and cut something off of him!

[leesa]

168. Only if we can cut off the thumbs of those respomsible for highway

billboards. I find those ads to be thoroughly offensive.

[Jed Dilligan]

178. For starters

I'd like to suggest that those who publicly promote the physical abuse of children have something else cut off.

[Seabiscuit]

180. WTF??? Does this idiot think he's living in the Stone Age?

What a horrible thing to say about the Stone Age. Those people were probably far more civilized than this freak.

[toopers]

183. I wonder how everyone would feel . . .

if someone spray painted the 10 commandments on various public right aways, or implied that the state supported a specific religion?

[nickgutierrez]

186. Locking.

This thread has deteriorated into a counter-productive flamewar.