Pentagon discriminates against Christians, lawmakers say -The Hill

[Rose Siding]

Conservative lawmakers in Congress are pressing President Bush to issue an executive order that they say would protect freedom-of-speech rights of military chaplains.

Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.) is spearheading the effort to persuade the Bush administration to ease the Pentagon’s policies on prayer.

Jones will send a letter to the president tomorrow to make the case that Christian military chaplains in particular have been muzzled by the Department of Defense (DoD).
....
The new guidelines discourage public prayers on all but rare occasions. They also say that chaplains must be sensitive to those who do not welcome offerings of faith.
....
“We believe the president has the authority to issue an executive order so that chaplains can pray in the name of the savior,” Jones said. “The president would do it much faster through executive order, and he has the authority to do that.”

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/TheExecutive/102005_pentagon.html

[Solly Mack]

1. So Jones doesn't have a problem with fundie Chaplains

discriminating against other religions ( as in the Air Force - but not just the Air Force) or foisting their beliefs on those who had absolutely no desire to hear them (again, the Air Force but not just the Air Force) - but if the Pentagon tells them they can no longer do that, Jones has a problem with that

gotcha....

[progressivebydesign]

4. Yep. Apparently that is why he's pissed. Astounding, isn't it? n/t

[Solly Mack]

5. the mind wobbles

and isn't begging for an XO just an attempt to well.."legislate" (as it were) from the executive office?

Don't like a rule or law? Hey! Just issue an XO to nullify the rule or law.

[progressivebydesign]

2. Those people need to stay the fuck out of our lives... please.

So Jones objects to: "They also say that chaplains must be sensitive to those who do not welcome offerings of faith" It's called NOT EVANGELIZING. Chaplains should be available (in all faiths or totally NON-demoninational) when needed. They are NOT, on my tax dollar, going to evangelize and try to RECRUIT believers. Bullshit.

"“We believe the president has the authority to issue an executive order so that chaplains can pray in the name of the savior,” Jones said. Well, Jones, that might be YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOR, but not everyone's. If you want to see something like that, then perhaps you need to start your own Christian Army, otherwise, stop shoving your beliefs down people's throats. It's MY tax money, too, and I will NOT have it used to push a particular relgious agenda.

You know, honestly, I used to consider myself a Christian... most of my life. The past few years has seen me go from Christian, to Agnostic, to Athiest, all because of the pervertion of the faith, and the hamhanded evangelism that to me, has exposed that type of Chrisianity for the cult it is.

[StuckinKS]

7. Hallelujah!

Me too.

Christian>Agnostic>Atheist

Not just because of the noisy blather of the fundie talking heads, but they sure made my decision feel like the right thing.

[leftofcool]

8. Well, Progressive..........

Like James Browne says........."blessings, from a pagan on the side of the Rebel Jesus."

Left of Cool

[Democrats_win]

3. The world's greatest oxymoron? Military Christians?

I guess "turn the other cheek" doesn't apply.

Or "do unto others as you have them do unto you."

I call them Murdering Military christians.

[gratuitous]

10. Murdering Military christians are the vast majority

Why else are the Mennonites, Friends and Church of the Brethren (the historic peace denominations) such small sects of Christendom?

[Occulus]

14. And what was that commandment, again? n/t

[BiggJawn]

6. Are there any Chaplains for the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Didn't think so.
an executive order to allow the military to become some Fundie's Wet Dream of "Holy Christian Warriors, cloaked in the Full Armour of GAWD..."

Tell ya what, how about more KEVLAR, and less prayer?

[Coastie for Truth]

9. Oh Please - the Military Chaplaincy is not to be used for proselytizing

Based on my time in the military, chaplains are "social workers" and "ombudsmen" - not evangelists --- and that was the word from John Cardinal O'Connnor (late Archbishop of NY, and former Chief of Chaplains of the Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard) talking about the myriad of issues raised by the Air Force in the Supreme Court case of GOLDMAN v. WEINBERGER, 475 U.S. 503 (1986). Cite: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=475&invol=503>

[onenote]

11. Onward Christian Soldiers...

Now I'm going to have that tune running through my head all day...

onenote

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

12. General Boykin anyone?

[daleo]

13. Lately the military has mostly attacked Islamic countries

I suppose that could be thought of as a sort of prejudice against Christianity.

[Mithras61]

15. I wonder how Jones would feel about...

NON-christian chaplains praying in the name of THEIR savior. I bet he wouldn't like THAT much either...


Where are those Flying Spaghetti Monster chaplains, anyway? :evilgrin:

[jobycom]

16. Only if the build minarets and hire muezzin to call out five times a day

Otherwise the president will be establishing a religion by favoring one over the others.

If don't ask, don't tell is good enough for a person's love life, it seems good enough for religion, too. Both are private matters.

[Loonman]

17. Whiny Christians need to shut up

They've been calling the shots since 312 AD. Quit yer whining.

[LibertyLover]

18. Executive orders

In general I hate the idea of those things. I realize that there have been ones issued that did excellent thing. If I remember correctly Harry Truman integrated the Army via Executive Order. But in the main whenever I hear the words "executive order" all I can think of is rule by fiat, secrecy and whim and the heck with the people, law and the Constitution. Neocons and Republicans complain about "activist judges legislating from the bench" and then turn around and want Bush to do the same thing, except it's legislating from the Oval Office (well, ok, the WH 2nd floor bar in the family quarters, but it's the same idea).