MSNBC: Bird flu reaches fringes of Europe...EU calls for emergency meeting

[AZBlue]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9674377/

"EU Health and Consumer Protection Commissioner Markos Kyprianou said a strain of the disease found in Turkey has been identified as the same virus that has killed more than 60 people in Asia since 2003 and forced the slaughter of millions of birds.

The European Union’s executive was also assuming that bird flu found in Romania was the same virulent strain known as H5N1, he said. Final test results for Romania are expected on Friday."



The U.S. needs a plan for this. NOW.
A military quarantine is NOT a plan.

[Tiggeroshii]

1. If people start dying, I'll start worrying, until then it's

still nothing but a hollow scare tactic

[AZBlue]

2. But people have died and that's just from exposure to birds

What happens when it mutates, as viruses always do? And, by that time, it may be too late to act. I don't think it is just a scare tactic - if it was only coming from the Bushies I'd agree, but this comes from the international science community and other nations' governments as well as the UN.

[Tiggeroshii]

3. Of what i've seen about it, it still needs to mutate before it can become

contagious among people. Right now, it's really of no threat of a mass kiling of people unless it mutates. A few people died of west nile when that was around. Let me rephrase my stance, I don't think this is something to worry about until people start dying by busloads like the media's trying to tell us will happen.

[smirkymonkey]

8. I'm with you - I really don't see the need for alarm unless

the death rates start reaching the numbers of AT LEAST the average flu season. Until then, I'm not paying much attention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. It may mutate this year

it may in fifty

We have been having this talks in health care since 1995

but when it does, it will be dramatic and fast...

Oh and the military has a role, anybody care to tell me what there is a Fort Dietrich, Oh yes a level one lab...

[mcscajun]

18. It could mutate in a heartbeat...and the mortality rate is high.

Out of 100 cases contracted, over 60 have died. That's a HUGE mortality rate.

I'm not worried yet -- I refuse to listen to Shrub's Chicken Little act, but I remained concerned and keep informed.

[mcg]

33. The mortality rate would like decrease a lot if it hits

I've read that the mortality rate would likely drop a lot, to something like 30%, maybe less, maybe even a lot less. That is the typical pattern in a virus becoming infectious.

There's not a whole lot to do except 1. get the vaccine if and when it is available 2. have at least one face mask ready.

Then if it hits take the commonsense precautions like wearing a mask, washing your hands, avoiding unnecessary contact. But we would still have to keep functioning and keep ourselves together. Worrying doesn't help.

[Mojorabbit]

35. You can also

have some extra food stored in the pantry, some zinc lozenges,gatorade etc. Most supermarkets only keep a few days food on the shelves. Any disruption would cause a big problem in filling those shelves. We see that happen here when a hurricane is near. The shelves empty fast.

They are quarantining people today overseas where the flu has been found only in birds.. not people.. and delivering food. I don't think this administration will be able to do that effectively. Think of what you might need and stock up. It may be for nothing but then again....

edited to add that I think that the first time someone reports that a bird with this type of flu has been spotted here(if it happens) people will panic as the newsmedia spins it up and that is why I think it prudent to have a stash of things you might need ahead of time.

[mcg]

46. yes, canned food and water

I forgot about those, there could be disruptions.

[kestrel91316]

24. It's a good thing for all of us that the medical community doesn't

have your attitude. Fortunately, when the virus DID start to jump from person-to-person in Asia a year or two ago, they obtained a sample of the mutated virus for use in preparing a vaccine. That vaccine has successfully passed preliminary testing on normal healthy young-to-middle aged adults, and is being tested now on healthy seniors.

Nobody belongs to the Boy Scouts anymore, which was apparently the only place in America that taught folks to "BE PREPARED".

Go ahead and keep that pinhead buried in the sand. When you get H5N1 and die, it will just mean one of us more sensible people will get your car, house, etc.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

53. It's not so black and white

There are a number of ifs (or perhaps whens) that must happen before it becomes a major threat to the world. I'm glad the medical community is keeping track of it and preparing for the worst. That's their job. They worry so I don't have to. I always believe in being prepared for the possible disasters that may happen next year, but there is a HUGH difference between between being prepared and worrying about it.

Go ahead and keep that pinhead buried in the sand. When you get H5N1 and die, it will just mean one of us more sensible people will get your car, house, etc.

What a mean thing to say.

[1956]

4. That military plan ?

We are dealing with NAZIS!! NAZIS!
#1) If a person gets sick- they will be too sick-(incapable of fleeing and spreading germs) to leave their home or hospital, so WHY do we need the military?!! Have I missed something? Unless of course- it is a terrorist they are worried about? WTF!
#2) STEP up production of Tamiflu or one of the others that is fairly effective or lessens it's wrath!!! It's too late for the vaccine, but the OTHER DRUGS, where are they, plus make them all affordable!!!

[mike_c]

20. it's not too late for a vaccine-- it's too EARLY....

Any vaccine produced before H5N1 undergoes recombination would not work on the pandemic strain.

[kestrel91316]

25. Mike c, guess what? Some clever doctor obtained a sample of

the strain that jumped p2p in Asia and it is the seed stock for the vaccine they are now testing. It may not be the exact one that hits us, but they seem to think they have the RIGHT STRAIN.

Infectious disease docs are way ahead of even you and me on this, and I am glad of it.

I hear they attenuated it prior to egg culture to get around the chicken egg mortality problem. Some sort of fancy genetic engineering........

[mike_c]

43. yep-- this is the gene targeting work designed to deal with...

...the in vivo problem of rapid chicken embryo mortality. Don't get your hopes up yet, though-- the virus strain they're using has not undergone recombination with an easily transmissible type A strain yet, so it's a utter crap shoot whether a vaccine developed from this strain would immunize against the eventual recombinant. I think someone decided that we should be using the interim period for both testing the gene targeting and testing a seed virus that might have some efficacy later-- in other words, a poor vaccine early on will be reassuring if a pandemic starts, and it can be improved several months into the pandemic using the pandemic isolate. Other than the gene knockouts, I think this is a shot in the dark with little chance of success, but better to be doing something rather than nothing. Remember, epitopic recognition is exceedingly specific, and all the cleverness in the world won't change that.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. Sorry, but we're nowhere near the "right strain" of anything......

...because the current H5N1 variant causing the very small amount of deaths is not jumping easily from p2p.

If someone is telling you that they have developed a Avian Flu vaccine, they're pulling your leg.

[kestrel91316]

50. It's not merely "someone" telling me, lol. It's public knowledge.

Try reading the newspaper, or check out the CDC website.

The vaccine, while it may not be an exact match for what is to come, is the best we can expect for now, and will undoubtably have SOME degree of protection. They are IN FACT done with the safety testing no normal healthy young adults, and have moved on to testing in seniors.

If you believe that everyone on the planet other than yourself lies all the time, why are you pestering us here? Go live in a cave.

[jean]

5. a CIDRAP news item reports that low number of human cases amid widespread

... "infection in birds suggests that the species barrier to human cases of H5N1 (bird flu) is 'substantial.' The authors add that family clusters of cases may be caused by common exposures, rather than by person-to-person transmission."

Also ... "Most cases so far have been linked with exposure to poultry. Specific activities that have been implicated include plucking and preparation of diseased birds; handling fighting cocks; playing with poultry, especially asymptomatic infected ducks; and consumption of duck's blood or possibly undercooked poultry."

Also ... "so far the disease has rarely spread to healthcare workers, even when appropriate isolation measures were not used."

Experts Cite differences between H5N1 and ordinary flu
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/avianflu/news/oct1105flureview.html
(from a recent report by the WHO on bird flu)

[progressivebydesign]

38. They dont' always mutate. Humans don't pass rabies to one another..

..nor kennel cough, nor Parvo, nor distemper. Not everything mutates in the same way. Hey, I'm not saying this can't happen, but freaking out only allows Bush and Co. to play you and come up with plans that resemble something in a Kurt Vonnegut novel.

[onenote]

27. yep, the world health org, the mayo clinic, the EU, numerous universities

all got together and made this up as on the request of the bush administration as a "scare tactic".

So who isn't part of this plot?

onenote

[Vanje]

6. "A military quarantine is NOT a plan."

Particularly with a disease which is spread by migratory birds.

[Mojorabbit]

28. It is what they are doing

Oct. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Squads of veterinarians and soldiers are scouring the wetlands of the Danube delta in eastern Romania to slaughter fowl after the nation was struck by bird flu, which has killed 60 people in Asia and has spread to Europe.

``We have called in another 70 soldiers to help us kill the remaining birds,'' said Gheorghe Bunduc, president of the council of the county of Tulcea, where bird flu was confirmed yesterday. Officials sprayed his car with disinfectant as he spoke. ``We hope they will start work tonight as the birds sleep.'


The village of Ceamurlia de Jos, where the flu was detected, was quarantined, and police stood guard with dogs, assault rifles and stun grenades. Officials 180 miles (300 kilometers) west in the capital Bucharest called for calm and readied 46,000 vaccine doses amid concerns about a worldwide flu outbreak.

The handling of the outbreak is a test of how prepared the country is to meet the healthcare standards of the European Union, which it wants to join as early as 2007. The EU may delay entry until 2008 if Romania doesn't meet accession criteria such as tackling corruption and border control. The outbreak halts the 17.5 million euros ($21 million) of poultry the country exports annually to the EU.

Originating in southeast Asia, the disease has moved through China and Russia, resulting in the slaughter of more than 140 million birds.
snip
Authorities quarantined an area of 3 kilometers (2 miles) around Ceamurlia de Jos. They're monitoring an area of 10 kilometers around the village and sent out 10 teams of vets and police to seek signs of bird flu and kill fowl.

``It's better to give away our chickens than give away our lives,'' said Marina, a farmer sitting on a horse-drawn cart loaded with corn, in an interview. She refused to give her last name. ``They sent in food aid today and they started with sugar so maybe this will sweeten up our bitterness.''

Gheorghe Ion, a policeman guarding the entrance to Ceamurlia de Jos, said villagers complained when the government said last week it suspected bird flu lay behind fowl deaths in the area. They became quieter with yesterday's news.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a77Ku5TGDijI

Chilling isn't it? I am reading the wild birds migrate next to Iraq and Iran and Poland. Hopefully it won't mutate to a strain easily transmisable. I hate the thought they will go after wild birds.

[katty]

7. More, let's scare the plebs...they want to get their Martial Law on

[xultar]

9. They aren't even protecting us from the regular old

regular old flu.

All this alarm about the bird flu and the regular old regular old doesn't even have enough vaccines.

Why all the hysteria over here? The Bushies would rather have the Bird Flu on the news than plamegate, frist-o-cuffs and delay-o-justice.

So, if they get the martial law on then they can control the media and welp I'm sure they will give a shit about people who die from the bird flu then.

[Bellamia]

11. Not enough vacine?

Hadn't heard that. Got my flu shot Oct. 4th, have heard nothing about a shortage.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Your vaccine is NOT for Bird Flu, different strain

and we need a reliable specioes barrier crossing sample before that can be made

[mcscajun]

17. There are four manufacturers this year, and still my medical office

has no word yet on when or if we'll have the vaccine. Some local towns had scheduled free clinics to dispense the vaccine, and have had to cancel because they have not yet received the vaccine.

Some supermarket pharmacies and some nursing homes have got it already.

Availability is by no means universal at this point.

This is all for the standard flu vaccine, of course. I'm not talking about Tamiflu.

[anitar1]

36. That is because the vaccine is on a first come, first serve

basis. This country did not sign up right away to get the vaccine. Brother Bush did not think it was needed. And perhaps they did not want to spend the money for it. Consequently we are way down on the list now, to receive it. Bro Bush is busy spinning now, calling a cnoference on the Avian flu ect. What a POS!Good luck finding a shot. I read a while back that the adminstration had been able to buy ONE MILLION doses. That should cover all their friends.

[mcscajun]

40. Well, thankfully, I have no interest in the flu shot for myself.

Never taken it, don't plan to now.

[PurityOfEssence]

10. Where is Dick Cheney, scourge of all birds, when you REALLY need him?

Here's a guy who can't muster even a mere smile without killing hundreds of small birds for sport. For once, he could actually be a benefit to society by going on a blood-soaked murderous rampage. Yet, true to form, he'll not be there when we really need him.

May he be pecked to death by ducks.

[bobmarley]

12. 2 people are infected in Thailand

this seems like a cool forum.

[AZBlue]

13. Welcome, bobmarley!

[nodehopper]

16. welcome

:cheers:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. Welcome to DU!

You're right, this is a cool forum. :hi:

[HeeBGBz]

21. Welcome to DU, bobmarley

[HeeBGBz]

22. Can the birds bring it over here?

Or can it only get here by human transmission? Just curious.

I know it's more scare tactics. Or they use bad things to their advantage.

Things just feel so severely out of balance.

[KDLarsen]

23. I wouldn't be surprised if they could..

.. but the problem is if the virus does in fact mutate & allow for human s to become infected by other humans.

[kestrel91316]

26. Migratory birds could bring the avian strain here to infect US flocks and

then mutate here, or it could mutate anywhere else in the world that the avian strain is and then be brought here by an infected human. Viruses are clever; they keep their options open.

[Mojorabbit]

29. there was a scare in Columbia

I read about yesterday. They say it is a different strain they found though.

[MzShellG]

30. Columbia...where?

Please dont say S.C. :scared:

[Mojorabbit]

31. No, South America :) eom

[kestrel91316]

32. Avian flu comes in many types - most of them are of little consequence

to us, but sad for the farmers who have to depopulate, and expensive for the taxpayers who reimburse them. But if avian H5N1 hits here in US poultry, I have confidence in our USDA APHIS inspectors. They are expecting it and are prepared.

I ahve NO confidence in the governments ability to contain H5N1 if it breaks out p2p/pandemic.

[lovuian]

34. It was found in Turkey too thats a confirm!!!

Bad news!!!

[SaveElmer]

37. Not bad news...

The bad news would be if it went undetected, or if the Turkish officials weren't doing anything about it!

[mcg]

47. it's bad news for the birds

[leesa]

39. Be Afraid! Der Fuhrer is in trouble! Please. Be afraid at all times!

[sam sarrha]

41. Military quarantine Bu$h style...... just shoot anyone that looks sick,,!!

[gulfcoastliberal]

42. Ordered 60 more capsules of Tamiflu

Already have 30. Hey, if I wasted my money, I can live with that. But if/when a pandemic breaks, you won't be able to get any for all of King Midas' gold. Unless you're in the Bush Bunker(s).

Be prepared to save yourself, my fellow DUers. Your government WILL NOT help you if this thing busts out. Get as much as you can, get it now, keep it secret, and keep it safe. Just like the ring of power. ;)

[mike_c]

44. where did you order it from? can you recommend the source...?

Or did you get a 'script and order thru a U.S. pharmacy?

[gulfcoastliberal]

52. Check your PMs

nt

[noonwitch]

48. 60 people over 2 years, in a highly populated area of the world (SE Asia)

This is not the black plague. People need to calm down about this. The average yearly flu bug kills more people here every year. This is not Captain Trips we are dealing with here.

[robcon]

49. It's official. This thread shows that bird flu=SARS=hysteria.

It sells papers, and it gets people to watch the news, but it's phony.

[raccoon]

51. Military quarantine is THEIR plan, though.

The administration just wants to repeal posse comitatus so they'll have the army to keep the rabble under control when they finally get fed up and revolt.

In Stephen King’s THE STAND, a shifting-antigen strain of flu that was 99.something % communicable and always fatal , escaped from a government lab and quickly spread across the US, and the world.

The government’s reaction in the book was to deny and minimize the risk and muzzle the media. A radio talk show host is snuffed by the Army when he takes in calls about the flu (AKA “Captain Trips”) on his program.

The government claims to be close to developing a vaccine.

Of course, it’s fiction, but this seems more in line with what the government would do in a case like this. Rather than hyping it six ways from Sunday.

Bird flu could be a threat, but this administration is making it the Boogeyman of the Week. More of their usual scare tactics.