Firefighter arrested after 9/11 remembrance

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-sept13.html

NEW YORK -- Hours after many New York firefighters gathered to mark the fourth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, one of them was arrested for attacking an immigrant worker and telling him he looked ''like he's al-Qaida,'' police said.

Firefighter Edward Dailey was arrested Sunday on charges of criminal mischief and felony second-degree assault, Police Sgt. Kevin Farrell said.

He was released without bail. Despite the alleged al-Qaida remark, there was not enough evidence to charge him with a hate crime, authorities said.

Dailey, 27, is accused of breaking a piece of Plexiglas off a curbside newsstand and throwing it at a 51-year-old man who works there, Farrell said. Dailey had said the man, an immigrant from Bangladesh, looked ''like he's al-Qaida,'' Farrell said.

[Solly Mack]

1. from a hero to a zero

not hate, huh? I suppose it was love that caused him to attack the man then.

[bluestateguy]

2. Call me cruel and insensitive

but I don't believe being a New York City Firefighter gives one an automatic halo above the head. Nor does it give one a special grant of moral authority to attack foreigners.

[northzax]

5. which is why he's facing assault charges

same as you or I.

[Coventina]

9. Disagree. If it were you or I we'd be charged with a hate crime.

Making the consequences more serious.

[northzax]

10. I don't know the New York statute

but I don't think this rises to the level of a hate crime.

[JusticeForAll]

11. Wow! What's your criteria for a hate crime?

an unprovoked act of violence toward another human being just because he looks a certain way seems to fit!

but I guess that's my idyllic world.

[northzax]

16. but that covers bascially all crime

from muggings on up, unprovoked attackes based on appearence. First off, I must confess I have issues with the concept of hate crime legistation to begin with. While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that a crime committed against someone because they are different is somehow worse than a crime commited against someone for their wallet, or car. It is simply one more tool for prosecutors who can't make a case another way to add on charges. Assault is assault, should he face more serious charges because his victim was Bagladeshi than if his victim was French? I don't think so.

When the legislation is used, it should be used rarely, to emphasize the worst possible crimes, not because some asshole got drunk and threw a piece of plexiglass at someone.

[Zenlitened]

18. Hate crimes are a form of terrorism. Beating up gays, harassing blacks...

... painting swastikas on Jewsish temples... these are acts designed to intimidate entire groups of people. Which is what terrorists do.

[northzax]

21. so don't be terrorized

the responseto terrorism is to show the perpetrators that they are nothing special, nothing better than common criminals. There are laws against terrorism, use those.

[Zenlitened]

22. Well, that's a bit glib, isn't it?

We do have a responsibility to determine an attacker's intent. That's done all the time, in courtrooms and in geopolitics.

[northzax]

24. and some intentions are worse than others?

and therefore worthy of greater punishment. of course, if you intend to kill someone it's worse than if you don't intend to kill them. It's the difference between first degree and second degree, between homicide and manslaughter. That is already taken into account.

So I'll ask again, two scenarios, which is the greater crime?

I am walking home tonight and someone stabs me to steal my iPod.
I am walking home tonight and someone stabs me because I look Jewish.

in both cases, the end result is the same, I get stabbed. Does the reason I was stabbed really matter? should one recieve greater punishment than the other?

[Zenlitened]

25. Yes, the reason matters. The second scenario is worse.

Not for you -- you're dead in either case.

But it is worse for society as a whole and, in your example, for Jews in particular.

You've gone from a crime of theft in scenario A to a crime of oppression in scenario B.

Both cases led to the loss of a life, but only one of them of them slipped a knife into the heart of a vulnerable community.

In that case, scenario B, an additional punishment should be added to the penalty of murder.

[northzax]

28. ah, but what if I'm not Jewish

can you commit a hate crime against someone who isn't in a minority population? scenarios, again:

First, it was a case of mistaken identity, I happen to look like a stereotypical Jewish male, vaguely mediterranian, I certainly would raise no eyebrows on a street in Jerusalem. However, I am not Jewish, can I then be the victim of a hate crime because of mistaken identity?

Second, the person who attacked me happens to be black, and have recently been forced to leave his neighborhood due to gentrification, something that I am, by virtue of being in that neighborhood, perceived as contributing to. Now I am certainly not a member of a vulnerable or minority community, I am a male WASP, educated at expensive private schools, with familial and personal connections to power and wealth. Even though I am not a minority, the attack on me was obviously inspired by a perception of status and aimed not at me in particular, but at an archetype, designed to intimidate people like me from entering my neighborhood. hate crime?

third: I was targeted simply for economic reasons, there was an object of value I possessed that someone wanted. This attack, however, inspires fear in other people, like me, who want the same rights to walk the streets as everyone else. Even though it was not the intention of the attacker to intimidate, it was the end result. Should he not be punished for the result of his actions the same way that he would be if he intended to intimidate?

lastly: it is a well known fact that people prey on the weak. If you are 6'5" 250 lbs, as I am, you are safer on the streets than someone who is 5'6" 150 lbs. If a mugger, for instance, only targets people smaller than he is (sensible, unless you have a good weapon) is that not profiling? Is that not intimidation of a population that is perceived to be more vulnerable?

[Zenlitened]

33. If the jury determines that you were targeted for economic reasons...

... then your attacker would not be guilty if a hate crime.

If you were attacked because he thought you were Jewish and sought out a Jew to hurt, it would be a hate crime. Even if you're not Jewish. I'd be interested to see what the case law looks like on this type of scenario. Someone, somewhere has probably been attacked because they were perceived to be gay, though it turns out they are not. Have cases like that gone to jury? I wonder how they ruled. Probably no clear trend, I'd guess.

If a black person attacks you because you are white, for the sole reason of bashing whitey, I certainly hope he'd be charged with a hate crime. Race is broadly defined as a basis for protected status.

In your last example, the concept doesn't seem to apply, because people of short stature traditionally have not been viewed as a protected class or community.

Again, though, all of this seems to me to revolve around questions of intent, something juries grapple with -- and make decisions based on -- all the time.

:hi:

[Lochloosa]

17. Penalties for "Hate Crimes" should not exist....they are just plain wrong

You are going down the slippery slope of punishing someone of a "Thought Crime". If that were the case, I would be in Gitmo for what I think of *.

[Zenlitened]

19. Totally disagree. Hate crimes are a form of terrorism.

(Noted in my post above.)

[Lochloosa]

20. I read the post....

and disagree. So, if I were to get in a fight with a gay I would be guilty of a hate crime. what about one of these southern rednecks I have to deal with everyday? I hate them...would that be a hate crime? If I started the fight, I should be charged with battery. Period. You are allowing the "State" to determine someones thoughts and punishing them for it. I just don't like it. What other "thoughts" are going to be outlawed next?

[Zenlitened]

23. No, I'm allowing a jury of your peers to determine that.

As we've seen, it's possible for prosecutors to bring hate crime charges and for those charges to be dismissed by the jury.

In the examples you cite, the jury may find that you attacked a gay person because you had a personal disagreement... or because you hates them gays' and was lookin' to hurt one of 'em.

If the person died in the attack, the jury would also have to decide whether you intended to kill him, and convict you of murder... or that the death was not intended, and convict you of manslaughter.

We use the courts to determine a criminal's intent all the time. I think the "thought crimes" argument is a bit of a stretch.

[JusticeForAll]

31. I think this can be moved from Thought crime to Hate crime

There's spoken admission of his intent against a class of people, is there not?

This guy is clearly not just dangerous to one person but very likely to a whole society. I can clearly see a reason for steeper punishment.

There was no intent to mug, steal, or otherwise gain from this "transaction." It's sole purpose was to hurt another individual.

NEW YORK -- Hours after many New York firefighters gathered to mark the fourth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, one of them was arrested for attacking an immigrant worker and telling him he looked ''like he's al-Qaida,'' police said.

[northzax]

3. well, I hope Mr. Dailey gets some professional help

to deal with his anger before he hurts someone.

[OKthatsIT]

27. I agree...lets not be so quick to judge this incident

its appears to be a 'hate-crime' ....but this is also post traumatic stress. The man needs help.

[Zenlitened]

4. What does it take to make something a hate crime?

This guy attacks a 'ferner' saying he looks like a terrorist... but somehow it's not a hate crime.

Two of the sick subhumans who murdered Gwen Araujo are convicted -- thank fully -- but the jury decides it wasn't hate crime.

Ugh.

:(

[NNN0LHI]

6. I wonder if Bush's phony annual 9/11 cry fest contributes to this? n/t

[msanthrope]

7. It sounds like an episode of

"Rescue Me". I wonder how much liquor was involved....

[saigon68]

8. A couple of 40s of Lazer Malt Liquor will Lubricate the emotions

[Mizmoon]

12. Alcohol makes people stupid

I wish everyone smoked ganja instead.

[defiant1]

26. Here, here!!

:smoke:

Can't we all just hit the bong??

:silly:

[ernstbass]

29. I'm with you on that!!

[SemperEadem]

32. Fabulous!!!! ROFL! I love it!!!!

[donco6]

34. I can definitely say

I have never thrown plexiglas at anyone while I was stoned. Nor have I even thought about it. In fact, snuggling down in my easy chair watching a funny TV show is about as ambitious as it gets.

[Old sixties guy]

35. Yes,alcohol DOES make people stupid and often violent

But "ganja"has a tendency to make people act stupid,lazy and listless so its no great alternative either.
And,yes,I was quite the smoker back in the day!

[sakabatou]

13. Depression makes a man go nuts

[IndianaGreen]

14. I wonder if Dailey posts at Free Republic?

A racist is a racist!

[Ilsa]

15. Sounds like PTSD also. But that doesn't excuse the behavior.

But it might explain it.

[Xenotime]

30. That man is a sad human being.

He shouldn't attack people. He should know better.