Murder and mayhem in New Orleans' miserable shelter

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N02134169.htm

Murder and mayhem in New Orleans' miserable shelter

NEW ORLEANS, Sept 2 (Reuters) - With the rotors of President George W. Bush's helicopter sounding overhead, New Orleans' poor and downtrodden recounted tales of murder, rape, death threats and near starvation since Hurricane Katrina wrecked this city.

Ending days of abandonment since the hurricane struck on Monday, the U.S. National Guard handed out military rations and a bottle of water to thousands of evacuees -- the first proper meal most had eaten in days.

...

He then offered to show reporters the dead bodies of a man in a wheelchair, a young man who he said he dragged inside just hours earlier, and the limp forms of two infants, one just four months old, the other six months old.

...

A National Guardsman refused entry.

"It doesn't need to be seen, it's a make-shift morgue in there," he told a Reuters photographer. "We're not letting anyone in there anymore. If you want to take pictures of dead bodies, go to Iraq."

[whistle]

1. Facists and cover-up....

...I hope this opens America's eyes

[aquart]

2. Not acceptable.

The brass balls to tell a reporter that there is more freedom of the press in Iraq than in the United States.

[dsewell]

7. Wrong interpretation, possibly

I'd give the guardsman the benefit of the doubt. He probably considered he was protecting the privacy of the dead. Remember, in many cases a journalist rushing to get photos of dead bodies is essentially a vulture (think "if it bleeds, it leads"). If I were charged with protecting a "makeshift morgue" I would probably want to keep photographers out.

I just think more context is needed here before calling "fascism".

[aquart]

13. Didn't use the word. Merely noted the irony.

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. This isn't fascism

It is genocide, live on National TV this weekend.

[Lerkfish]

36. by all means, lets' protect the fascists

[me b zola]

14. No. It's just legal to murder journalists in Iraq

They don't have the authority, yet, to do that here.

[sabra]

3. Other survivors recounted horrific cases of sexual assault and murder

Sitting with her daughter and other relatives, Trolkyn Joseph, 37, said men had wandered the cavernous convention center in recent nights raping and murdering children.

She said she found a dead 14-year old girl at 5 a.m. on Friday morning, four hours after the young girl went missing from her parents inside the convention center.

"She was raped for four hours until she was dead," Joseph said through tears. "Another child, a seven-year old boy was found raped and murdered in the kitchen freezer last night."

Several others interviewed by Reuters told similar stories of the abuse and murder of children, but they could not be independently verified.

Many complained bitterly about why they received so little for so many days, and they had harsh words for Bush.

[bicentennial_baby]

4. my head is about to explode

:nuke:

i think i need to go to bed now...

[NorthernSpy]

27. ... whereas my head works just fine!

My rule of thumb: the more dramatic and pointless the rumored Act of Evil; the greater the motive for spreading slander about the Evildoer/s; and the flimsier the evidence offered... the less credible the story.

[Judi Lynn]

30. Superb "rule of thumb." Absolutely. Thanks.Glad I saw it. n/t

[barackmyworld]

8. I'm tearing up

this is a tragedy on so many levels

[iamjoy]

9. Does Anyone Still Want To Justify

the criminals who did this?

I have on this board seen justification for taking food and water from empty buildings, I agree with that. I was less inclined to agree when people didn't care about stealing electronics, etc. but felt there were more important things to worry about. I got mad when they started looting hospitals, but people here said the looters were thirsty and desperate.

I dare anyone to try to justify the actions of these monsters, or excuse it with their being abandoned by the government.

[NorthernSpy]

24. remember those rumors about survivors attacking the children's hospital?

False. The hospital's director spent a lot of time trying to explain to the press that no such thing had happened.

The reports of out-of-control survivors looting Baton Rouge? False as well, as we learned later.

Those claims of shots fired at a relief helicopter? The pilot reported no such thing.

That's the problem with rumors. By the time they're shown to be mostly baloney, the damage has been done.

[JoFerret]

29. We need to track these rumors and when (if) they are verified

...we need to keep the record clear. Track the rumors, chase them down, pursue the truth.
We have scenes here from everyone's nightmare. The swirl of lies, racist fantasies, and wild rumors need to be checked and sorted from the reality which is awful enough.

[NorthernSpy]

33. absolutely! it's like World War One propaganda all over again...

... those insane stories that painted Germans as nun-raping baby-eaters, to a man.

:eyes:

I am starting my rumor collection right now. This is the stuff genocides are made of.

[JoFerret]

28. NO-ONE has justified criminals

No-one has justified criminals. Please don't dare suggest that posters here have justified murder and mayhem.

Crime is crime. But get a grip on the context and the bigger picture here.

[me b zola]

15. OMG!

Do you know that the NG have locked the survivors in the convention center & the superdome? They have dozens of ready buses outside, but they aren't letting them leave. :cry:

[NorthernSpy]

31. for fuck's sake! do you REALLY think that black folks just SIT there...

... while random men wander around, raping and murdering their children, and don't even think to say 'boo' about it?

Do you REALLY think that NOBODY would have thought to bring these little rape-and-murder sprees to the attention of those nice men from the National Guard -- who have been, you'll recall, patrolling the arena WITH GUNS?

What the hell do you think black people ARE, anyway?

If that woman -- that "Trolkyn Joseph" -- really knows all about a four-hour-long rape and a murder in a freezer, then WHY THE HELL IS SHE STILL ALIVE? Why on earth would such dreadful evildoers fail to KILL the friggin WITNESSES?

What do you want to bet that this "Trolkyn Joseph" has a history of MENTAL PROBLEMS? Her tale will ring a pretty loud bell with anyone who has spent much time with a PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC.



God... am I really the only person left on earth with a functioning bullshit meter?

[Beausoir]

43. My bullshit meter is still working too!

You raise some fantastic points.

At this point, I see everything with a very skeptical eye.

There is alot of racism at work in this country.

[Stewie]

42. Inexcusable

Someone needs to be held criminally responsible for allowing this to happen, and I'm not talking about just the rapists.

[cliss]

5. There was an article about the AstroDome

on Yahoo News. I was really surprised to find out there really was NO ONE in charge. When they announced that people should go to the shelter before the hurricane hit, I just assumed there would be people there, intake personnel, handing out food & water, telling people where to go and what to do.

Apparently, there were just some police people who tried to maintain order. Imagine trying to control 30,000 hungry, tired & scared people.

That was a real shocker.

Even more shocking was the news that people weren't allowed to leave. Now if it was me, having to smell unflushed toilets from 30K people, I'd take my chances outside.

No thank you.

[Kagemusha]

6. The hell?... I could've sworn they said they wouldn't keep folks in.

But that would require uh you know, organization.

[Igel]

47. Superdome? n/t

[SuniSurf]

10. ANOTHER "MUST" READ

Red Cross NEVER allowed into New Orleans.

http://dumbya.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/2/2125/04978

Just a snippit of the thread:

Homeland Security (her term, not mine) told the Red Cross DO NOT enter New Orleans and says this still now. And why, you may ask? Not Security. Not worker safety. Not lack of access. It was because people would be drawn to the Red Cross food and they wouldn't want to go to be evacuated. So I asked: "The people starving and dying at the convention center yesterday couldn't get Red Cross food and water because they would be drawn to the food at the convention center, where they were, and not want to be evacuated from the convention center where no evacuations were going on or planned and all the while they are dying". (Actually, it was a couple questions.) She went back into her spiel about all of the other good work they were doing. When I asked again, she said yes, that was true. She seem relieved to admit it.

[iamjoy]

11. How Reliable Is This?

too many rumors now.

[thethinker]

16. The Red Cross is not in NO

The Red Cross is in Houston. I don't think they are any closer to NO than that - 350 miles away. I have not heard of them being in Baton Rough or any where near NO.

Has anyone else heard of them being anywhere near NO?

[sniffa]

12. go to iraq?

fuck you. teLL that shit to the freepers and coLLege repubLicans then. x(

[Occulus]

17. "It doesn't need to be seen"

I've seen pictures of real dead people before. I'm an adult.

I CAN HANDLE IT.

Good Christ. Do they think we're ALL kids? Forfucksake.

[durablend]

35. Makes * look even worse than he already does

Simply CANNOT have that.

[Igel]

48. But would you like to find out that your aunt was dead

by seeing her picture on Fox or CNN?

Is *that* something you'd sit back and say, "Ah, I'm an adult. I can handle it" about? Or would you not want her picture in the newspaper and tv until at the very least you knew about it?

[OneBlueSky]

18. "Another child, a seven-year old boy was found raped and murdered . . .

in the kitchen freezer last night."

the sadness I feel is overwhelming . . . I'm putting off the rage until tomorrow . . . if I don't, I'll explode . . .

[kittykitty]

45. Abu Gharib in the USA

[NYC]

19. When did the people of New Orleans become the enemy?

?

[Judi Lynn]

20. I've seen news organizations carring stories which can't possibly

be fact-checked, with conjectures, speculations, rumors coming from people who have been without sleep and food for days, and running their remarks as the gospel truth.

The story excerpted earlier in this thread from Reuters, indicates a person claims she found a child who was dead, and she claims as fact the child was raped for four hours until she died.

That kind of information should not be carried as fact without real evidence from a medical expert. The length of time she was raped and the cause of her death wouldn't be known to someone who just discovered her body. This is madness. Reuters shouldn't be carrying rumors or outright ravings of someone pushed over the edge, just for the sensational aspect. They should be ashamed.

[NYC]

23. You're right.

The story certainly sounded farfetched (unfounded), but that didn't stop the paper printing it. I suppose that is part of demonizing the people of New Orleans.

How many thousands will be dead when this is over? And will we ever know how many?

What are they doing to these people?

[NorthernSpy]

34. thank you...

... for staying sane. Someone's got to.

[MsLeopard]

32. Why, when they "chose" to be born poor

....of course. This nation has conducted a war on poor people of color since its founding. I wouldn't be surprised if BushCo didn't look at the disaster as an opportunity to study how long it takes for exactly what happened, to happen. They certainly didn't care about the suffering of those in need.

Now, if New Orleans had been filled with rich white men -- well, just imagine the effort that would be made to see they had food, water, rescue personnel, and anything else their pampered souls needed.

Impeach Bush now!

[NYC]

52. What you said is unquestionable.

Now, if New Orleans had been filled with rich white men -- well, just imagine the effort that would be made to see they had food, water, rescue personnel, and anything else their pampered souls needed.

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. The Superdome is no longer a shelter

It is a prison camp worse then Abu Ghraib.

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

22. OMFG...

i'd looked for good people and tried forming a protective vigilante soon. OMG OMG OMG

[NorthernSpy]

25. Kuwait 1991: Iraqi soldiers dump preemie babies from their incubators!

I swear to God, some people are so fucking stupid that they couldn't pour piss out of a boot even if there were instructions printed on the heel.

[mondo joe]

37. Are you saying there are no violent criminal acts going on?

How many physicians, police and survivors do I need to disbelieve?

[NorthernSpy]

38. looks like you could use my Rule of Thumb...

Rule of thumb.

Answer me this: how is it that everyone knew that a horde of survivors were attacking the children's hospital -- when no such thing had happened?

Or how about that phoney story about refugees laying waste to Baton Rouge? Remember that one?

Or how about this LA Times report about the Convention Center "anarchy" -- quite a difference, hmmm?


The point isn't that no crimes or fights have occured -- it would be extremely strange if there had been none. The point is that insane slander ought to be recognized for what it is.

[Berry Cool]

40. Here's another thing to consider:

When people go without food or water for a long period of time, they can start to have some strange things happen, can't they? I know people deprived of sleep eventually begin to hallucinate. Maybe that's exactly what's happening to some of these poor people. It sure can't be easy to sleep in there either.

All I know is, if I believe every single horrible rumor that is coming out of that place, I will go insane. The rule of thumb makes a LOT of sense.

That having been said, though...damn, those people need to get OUT of there. Period.

[Lerkfish]

39. don't worry, if you wait to believe them long enough, they're dead.

I mean, really.
How is this any differen from aiding afghanistan in a war zone? Are they saying a few crackheads with weapons are stopping the entire relief efforts?

then obviously, if so, those in charge are the most unqualified and incompentent leaders possible, OR there is something else going on, in which they are criminals.

[mondo joe]

41. But I already know those in charge are unqualified and incompetent.

They may, in addition, be criminals.

But the one difference between this and a war zone is that it's not soldiers dealing with it, but ordinary physicians and police.

The violent chaos is just one more horror for the survivors.

[JustSayNO 2 Sheeples]

44. "If you want to take pictures of dead bodies, go to Iraq."

Yeah, the Bushco propaganda machine in full activation mode! We'll never know what really happened.

[Darth_Kitten]

46. This didn't need to happen....

:mad:

[soda]

49. rapes and murder

How many rapes and murder are commited in new orleans on any given day? has the rate gone up or down since katrina?
any truth in the rumor that the prisions were emptied?

[puddycat]

50. I POSTED REPEATEDLY ABOUT CRIMINALS AND WAS BASHED FOR IT -- rant alert

You wouldn't believe the hate I got from some DU'ers when I posted decrying the criminal element that was loose in New Orleans, preying on the innocent. It is disgusting how many people sought to protect the criminal element--telling me I was wrong (in worse terms than that) when I tried to explaint to them that rapes and murders were being committed, and that something had to be done.

Folks, this is what happens in our inner cities every single day. Nobody, including liberals, really does anything about it--because the criminals are in charge of the streets, and all they have to do is whine whine whine and scream "racism" and somebody defends them. For God's sakes, even Jesse Jackson was on the tv today defending looters. The decent poor people suffering rarely get heard--because they are too sick and tired and disabled and too damn fed up to fight much, because they have to fight not only their twisted leaders who defend the worst among them, but their own neighbors.

Look, if someone is stealing something like food to live, I don't even consider them a "looter". But MOST of the looters were criminals. These looters were the same animals who probably killed those children, and its about time that liberals wake the hell up and stop defending such vile creatures. By doing so, we are destroying the decent poor people we wish to protect. I am ashamed of everyone who still to this day defends these criminals.

A few here still defend even cop killers. Don't you people understand that you cannot defend killers like Mumia Abu-Jamal without losing your humanity and your credibility? No wonder our country is being run by fascists--because with your defense of murderers and your defense of anarchy you have scared everyone off.

If you don't like the truth, tough shit. Even if I'm tossed out of here it doesn't matter, because sooner or later all most people here will realize the truth and see that they can't afford to be associated with killers and rapists no matter WHAT their color.

I love most of you dearly, you try to do the right thing. But the defense of murderers and rapists and looters is not a progressive value. In the quest to defend the downtrodden, many well meaning souls are terribly confused. Just as right-wing people have been blinded by listening to corrupt neo-con fascist leaders, progressive people can be blinded by those radicals who main occupation seems to be self-aggrandizement, like Jesse Jackson and other black leaders who condone any criminal activity as long as the perps are a dark shade, all the while ignoring the majority of silent, decent people they should be helping. End of rant.

[really annoyed]

51. Wish I could recommend your post

Great job!

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthernSpy]

53. too bad some of your favorite rumors are proving to be false...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1749293&mesg_id=1749293

Maybe if you stopped shrieking long enough to read that...