Indiana Couple Sentenced in Baby's Death (faith healing...no med. attn.)

[deadparrot]

FRANKLIN, Ind. - An Indiana couple who chose to pray over their dying newborn daughter rather than seek medical care for her were sentenced Friday to six years in prison for reckless homicide.

But a judge suspended most of those prison terms for Dewayne and Maleta Schmidt, instead ordering the couple to serve about a year each at a work-release center.

Their daughter, Rhianna Rose Schmidt, died in August 2003, less than two days after she was born at the couple's home, from an infection typically treated with antibiotics.

The Schmidts' church, the General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn, advocates prayer and faith healing over medical intervention but does not require members to shun medical care.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050813/ap_on_re_us/newborn_death

[kestrel91316]

1. Maybe we should just LET folks like this remove their ..........

genes from the gene pool?? If only they could do it without making SOMEBODY ELSE SUFFER!!!!!!!!

[Erika]

2. That poor baby

[BlueIris]

10. Nice. And by nice I mean

vile.

[kestrel91316]

24. What THEY did to the BABY was vile.

[sakabatou]

49. Someday, they'll get a darwin award...

[sleipnir]

3. Yeah, the power of positive thinking!

Good job fuckheads, now you killed your kid.

Though, to be honest, they might have been too heavily influenced by this "church." Many who get into these quasi-cults are not able to notice their addiction to belonging and start to think less and less about reality and the choices they make.

No excuse, but just a possible reasoning.

[1monster]

22. Did you miss this? The parents made the decision, not the church.

"The Schmidts' church, the General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn, advocates prayer and faith healing over medical intervention but does not require members to shun medical care."

[delen]

4. Bet this gets sold by the right as one more

incident were Christians are being discriminated against for their faith

[melnjones]

8. I live in Indiana...

Trust me, I don't know a single right-winger who would stand up for this couple or their church.

[delen]

33. No I didn't mean

average church going folk would support this, I meant once in the hands of the Randall Terry types it will be spun this way, because these people (the parents) truly believed Jesus would cure their child if she was supposed to live if not then "god works in mysterious ways"
In other words from a certain prospective it could be true religious belief and practice.

[Trajan]

23. I say: Let ALL believers in the 'power of Christ' ...

live true to his creed ....

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Acts 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

John 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

Luke 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
Luke 13:12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.
Luke 13:13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

Mark 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
Mark 5:26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
Mark 5:27 When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
Mark 5:28 For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
Mark 5:29 And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

So. it is clear that christians need ONLY consult with Christ when they suffer maladies and injuries ... Medical science should never be consulted ....

Let's presume that adherents to a 'perfect god' and his attendant 'perfect theology' would GLADLY follow every scripture of that theology that they proclaim as 'truth' to all within earshot ... Why NOT follow a perfect truth absolutely ?

LIVE your faith-belief honestly and completely ... Surrender utterly to the 'fact' of the 'truth' of the perfect power of Jesus .... ADHERE to the scriptures: You neednt consult with science: you only need Christ ..... DONT be a wishy washy hypocrite who believes in half measures ... DO IT ALL THE WAY ....

WHY believe in something if you arent willing to fully accept it's 'truths' ? ....

I know this will be controversial to some here, but it must be pointed out that this creedal hypocrisy is the norm, and constitutes a form of apostasy, and is at least slightly dishonest ...

WHY hedge your bets with medical science when Christ could heal you ?

</rant>

[Toots]

25. Hypocrites will never see their errors

There are sooo many contradictory messages in the Bible that they just pick and chose which ones to follow. Amazing how so many chose the wrong ones.

[melnjones]

38. What the hell are you talking about.

When the Bible was written there wasn't medical science like there is today. It's not like they could just drive over to a high tech medical facility and get treatment. There are so many errors in what you just said that I'll leave my arguing there.

Drives me nuts when people, Christians or not, spout off about the Bible like they know everything without even trying to study the historical background, the language translation from Hebrew/Greek to English, etc.

[Trajan]

51. Omnipotence ...

transcends mere human history ....

Perhaps something is what drives you nuts ...

[LSU_Subversive]

53. amen brother ! ;)

[daleo]

5. The Church of the Firstborn?

What's up with that then?

[madeline_con]

9. Church of the Firstborn

Ironic, isn't it?

[anotherdrew]

52. church of the firstborn? since christ had all those younger siblings?

Little Jimmy Christ and his sister Sally Christ

Jimmy never could measure up to his older brother, "the firstborn" and wound up living a very ordinary life. Little is known of Sally's later years.

[LSU_Subversive]

55. don't these names just tickle you? my s.o. likes to play a game where he

comes up with church names by combining random religious-sound words. much fun.

[MnFats]

6. Shoulda seen signs of trouble when they named their child...

...after a Stevie Nicks song.

(sorry; don't mean to be flippant but come ON!)

[BlueIris]

11. If you "didn't mean to be flippant," why did you POST THAT???

Good Lord, DUers.

No matter how you feel about what these people did or why they did it, the original post in this thread addresses the aggravated homicide of an infant.

Would you repeat any of these comments out loud? In front of others? How about in front of people whom you may or may not know. If not, why in the name of polite behavior and good taste are you posting them here?

[short bus president]

32. because people who kill other people

over superstitious nonsense deserve ridicule.

[DiverDave]

65. I would call them MURDERERS to

their face...and I would say the same to ANYBODY.
Polite?
They KILLED their own baby...sheesh.

[delen]

34. "Rhiannon" is the song

and if they had named her that we probably wouldn't have this thread.
Rhiannon is part of the Wiccan trilogy of Goddesses
The Maiden, the Mother(Rhiannon)who also represents female sexuality, and the Crone.
The names given these goddesses have many variations, which is why I didn't name all of them.

[MnFats]

50. I know. I was being flippant, which is entirely inappropriate here...

....I'm sorry. I repent of my callousness.

[AtomicKitten]

7. sounds like our media is gun shy.

Doesn't want to ruffle the featers of the religious wrong.
Too bad, really. Tales of dumbass parents like this just might prevent other dumbass parents from repeating this sorry episode.

[IndianaGreen]

12. The Church should have been prosecuted!

It was the Church of the Firstborn that teaches its congregants to ignore science and rely on hocus pocus religious faith to treat illnesses. For far too long religious jihadists have been hiding behind the First Amendment to spread their poisonous lies to an unsuspecting public. These churches should be held accountable for the lies they spread, and the deaths they cause.

They are waging war against us, and we must surely wage war against them!

[entanglement]

18. I agree that what this church taught was dangerous

but unless they forced their followers to abide by their rules, I don't see how they can be prosecuted

[VegasWolf]

30. Yes, the church left themselves a "legal" loophole by advocating

prayer healing but not "absolutely requiring" it. Fanatics!

[IndianaGreen]

31. We complain about Islamic madrassas teaching hate

while we have our own brand of Christian madrassas in our country teaching hate, intolerance, and stupidity.

If they want to remove the wall that separates the Church from the State, then they should be subjected to the wrath of the State for all of the ills they have brought to our nation in the name of their Gawd.

We must settle accounts with the rightwing right after the Bush regime collapses.

[dbt]

13. There IS such a thing as faith healing. But the term is used WAY too

carelessly, to encompass too many things. For instance, a faith healer can stop bleeding that is "not of natural causes." They can stop the pain of burns and they can heal the oral condition of infants known as "thrush."

But a true faith healer knows when to call a doctor.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Say what?

Which "faith" healers can stop bleeding of any causes? Or any of the other stuff? I never heard of such a thing.

Don

[dbt]

58. It's well-documented in The Foxfire Books.

[Beetwasher]

68. No, It Is Not Well Documented

Not at all. It's about as well documented as any fiction in any book.

The Orc Wars are well documented in some books too. They never really happened though.

[mondo joe]

26. What sort of bleeding is "not of natural causes"?

[dbt]

57. Cuts, for instance.

[arwalden]

29. Oh Brother!

:eyes:

[melnjones]

35. I'm with you

that faith healing really does exist, and a real faith healer should not be opposed to the medical community. Too bad that these crazies make real faith healing look bad.

[Beetwasher]

37. Real Faith Healing? Baloney.

It's ALL bullshit and dangerous bullshit at that. This story is a clear example of why it's dangerous. I defy you or anyone to provide evidence of such a thing, and anecdotes are NOT evidence.

[melnjones]

40. Our country has freedom of religion, might I remind you,

so please continue insulting me and anyone else who has any sort of faith belief that you don't agree with, regardless of whether or not they use it dangerously. I have nothing against medical science. I'm all for it. I just think that faith healing is something that can and does happen as well, and sometimes that's even in the context of medical science. I'm sure you could find some doctors even who would agree with me.

[Beetwasher]

41. No, It's NOT in the Context Of Medical Science

Not at all. If your insulted because I say faith healing is dangerous bullshit, too bad. What the hell does freedom of religion have to do w/ anything? That's a load of crap. Your freedom of religion doesn't extend to denying babies proper medical attention, and that's directly where faith healing leads. Faith healing is dangerous bullshit and I will shout it fromt he rooftops and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

[melnjones]

44. One more thing and I'm done...

I do not ever advocate denying anyone proper medical attention. I only believe miracles do exist that even medical science can't explain. My beliefs hurt no one, they are not dangerous to anyone, and I have every right to have them. Geez.

[arwalden]

46. Nobody Is Denying You Your Freedom Of Religion...

... when they state that "faith healing" is nonsense. How does someone's DIS-belief in faith healing interfere with your right to believe?

Why should *you* be so personally offended and feel personally attacked when someone expresses their opinions about faith healing?

<< My beliefs hurt no one, they are not dangerous to anyone, and I have every right to have them. >>

I'm sure the parents of that poor child thought the EXACT same thing as you do. Pity.

[Beetwasher]

47. No One Says You Don't Have A Right To Believe, Where Did I Say That?

However, I have every right to call your belief's dangerous bullshit. This story is evidence of just how dangerous a belief in faith healing is and is evidence of where such a belief always and ivariably leads. This shit happens over and over and over.

[mondo joe]

61. You are free to believe in any fairy tale or religion you like.

Just because others disagree doesn't mean your rights are diminished.

[dbt]

59. Baloney to your baloney.

I have seen it done. I would also tell you that I've done it myself, but I was only the instrument through which it was accomplished.

[arwalden]

64. The Plural Of Anecdote Is Not Data.

All the anecdotes in the world are worthless. It's the controlled double-blind peer-reviewed duplicatable tests that are the only proof. And such tests have already proved that "faith healing" and prayers are ineffective.

[Beetwasher]

67. Uh Huh, Sure You Did

:eyes:

[Beetwasher]

36. No, There Is Not Such a Thing. I Defy You To Provide Evidence That Such A

thing exists. Oh, and anecdotes are NOT evidence.

[arwalden]

45. It's All The "Placebo Effect"...

... and that's why so many folks are convinced of the other "miracle" cures: magnets, crystals, ionized water, etc.

In order for "faith healing" to work, the person being healed (or in the case of infants, the caregivers) must know about it and must believe in it so that they can give testament to its power.

However, when such miracles are attempted in double-blind tests (where the person being healed--and the person making the determination of the patient's health--is unaware of whether or not a "faith healing" has been performed, then all the claims of the believers fall apart.

-- Allen

[dbt]

60. You are wrong about the person being healed having to believe in it.

[arwalden]

63. Fatuous Statements That Do Nothing But Contradict Are Worthless.

But if you have any evidence to back up your assertions then please feel free to present it. As evidenced by this story, we have yet ANOTHER bit of concrete evidence that faith healing does NOT work.

[madmom]

14. this is ok, .....but abortion is wrong?....n/t

[xxqqqzme]

27. well, of course it is silly!

When I was in Indiana in June one of the first billboards I saw on the interstate was 'Welcome to Indiana, Proud to be a Pro-Life State".

They might want 2 look N2 that one a bit closer.

[mondo joe]

15. Wouldn't her death fall under the heading of INTELLIGENT DESIGN?

If you don't believe in evolution why believe in antibiotics?

[Ariana Celeste]

17. I know a man who believes in this stuff.

My uncle. Big follower of Benny Hinn (sp?). Funny thing- he got a disease in his lungs, met faith healers, went to the hospital and got an operation, claimed it was the prayer and not the doctor who fixed it. :eyes:

Poor child. I see absolutely NO excuse to shorten their sentence. What message does that send people who believe this crap other than, there are judges who may sympathize?


edit, spelling

[SillyGoose]

19. This is incredibly tragic. That poor little baby.

This is the 3rd baby to die of parents that belong to this church since 1998 so this has come up in the past.

I can't help but notice this sentence:

The Schmidts' church, the General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn, advocates prayer and faith healing over medical intervention but does not require members to shun medical care.

What if one of these churchmembers were a pharmacist. Would he be allowed to not fill prescritions that violate his religious beliefs? Just wondering since thie issue of pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions for b/c pills has been in the news lately.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

21. Until recently the only religion that was anti birth control...

was Catholic. Now it seems it's trendy to be anti birth control, even though most right wing fundies you'll talk to you who are protestant think the catholic church is full of mumbo jumbo because we pray to others besides God.
Duckie

[Dulcinea]

28. They're taking their cue from the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church has more than a billion members. How do you suppose that happened?

[barb162]

42. I think there are about a billion Moslems too

[YellowRubberDuckie]

20. Why do people who kill their babies get little time in prison...

but people who get caught with pot get life? It makes no sense. Fucking republican Nazi system we have going here, isn't it?
Duckie

[barb162]

43. I think intent has something to do with it

[LSU_Subversive]

54. as with seemingly everything else done in the name of our judicial system

completely inconsisent and hypocritical. therefore, ineffective.

[VegasWolf]

39. Don't they know that bloody chicken feathers and feet do not really work?

[ecoalex]

48. Shudda Tried Yogurt

A family in Pa. tried to revive a dead child with yogurt. It didn't work.For a week they smeared yogurt on the body and prayed. Finally a neighbor reported them. Charges: one; illegal use of a dead body, and a suspended sentence.

[HockeyMom]

56. Why didn't they charge SANTORUM

for illegal use of a dead body in Pa.?

[fedupwithbush]

62. Medical science doesn't interfere with

the belief in miracles.

At least that's what I tell my friends.

Think about it.

If you believe in a "higher power", which I do, why do you not believe in the power of the mind?

This "higher power" gave us our brain and the thinking behind it. Why can't these fundies and any other religion that outlaws doctors and medical attention look outside the box?

Any and all cures today came from thinking. WHO GAVE YOU YOUR BRAIN?

I know some on here are atheist and I've seriously thought about that. In the end I can't explain a lot of stuff with that scenario. But I can explain most anything with the belief that there is some great power that caused evolution, us and the evolving of our ability to think and create.

Maybe I'm crazy. But maybe not. At least my beliefs don't kill people.

When I hear of people not using the medical science we have, (pardon the pun), with the brain God gave us, it makes me sick.

And for those of you who haven't heard that saying,(with the brain God gave us) my grandmother said that a lot. It stays with me every day.

I know I'm from Kansas and a lot of you have no use for us. But not all of us are re pugs and not all of us are brain dead. I've felt many times ashamed and hurt by some postings about Kansas. We live here because we love it. But that doesn't mean all of us are stupid, illiterate or ignorant of the world. I personally just don't like living in the fast lane like most do on the coasts and in the huge cities. It's not a bad thing to live here. Just different. And I won't apologize for where I live, nor should I have to.

As to this story again, these people should have been sent to prison for a long time. And I hope they are practicing birth control from now on. I'd like to see that as a penalty too. As my grandma would have said, "God forbid they have another child."

Common sense, what a concept!

[VegasWolf]

66. Should'a just waved their picture of Bush over the kid. Bush talks

to the sky people all of the time.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

69. They'll never realize that what they did was wrong...

They will forever believe that their baby's death was God's will.