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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:17 PM
Original message
B.C. pot activist arrested in extradition bid
Police raided a marijuana seed store run by the B.C. Marijuana Party leader in Vancouver Friday, at the request of U.S. authorities in Seattle.

In connection with the 11 a.m. raid, Greg Williams a.k.a. "Marijuana Man" was arrested at the store, Michele Rainey at her Vancouver home and high-profile B.C. Marijuana Party leader Marc Emery was picked up in Nova Scotia while attending "Hempfest 2005."

U.S. officials are accusing the trio of growing marijuana, distributing marijuana seeds and conspiring to engage in money laundering, following an 18-month investigation by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA).

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1122667113835_118076313/?hub=TopStories


I have not saw this posted yet so i thought i'd throw it out there. Potentially very bad news for those who might like to partake in a bit of covert gardening. I remember when *ush #1 did the same thing to my friend Neville Schonenbottom of the Seedbank.



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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Story from The Globe and Mail
The Globe's lead says it right up front and bluntly:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050729.wpotp0729/BNStory/National

Police raided a business run by the head of the B.C. Marijuana Party on Friday based on a search warrant that was requested by the U.S. government.

... Several people gathered outside the store to protest the raid, many holding anti-American signs.
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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks,
I really don't like Marc, i think he's a twit. Yet i don't condone whats happened. It's a sad sign for those who are in my social group.
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opusprime Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. This is about more than Marc...
I think Marc is a hero personally.

But I just wanted to remind you that on September 11, 2001, there were approximately 40 FBI agents working on the cleanup investigation where an FBI sniper had shot a Marijuana Activist the week before.

I hardly think our FBI agents time is being used properly. I'm more afraid of the DEA hit squads than I am of Marijuana user.

http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread10880.shtml
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ridgerunner Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Marc is not well loved
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ScamUSA.Com Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. thats lame dude
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ScamUSA.Com Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. yep
Marc Emery is an old school hero of mine.

Someday I'll open a Cannabis Cafe in the US
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Emery's a lightning rod

He made himself that. He did it earlier in life (he's an old buddy of my little brother) in a different crusade, as a bookstore owner.

People tend to like and dislike such people strongly.

Me, I bought my seeds from a local supplier at a little shop on the main street hereabouts. ;)

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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Absolutely Fucking Disgusting.
They will be lucky if they don't spend the rest of their lives in an American gulag. Canadians of good conscience should have a general strike. Fuckers, fuckers, fuckers.

Jay
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Kick
What ever happened to "kick to combine"?

Jay
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BCBud Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am stunned!!!!
This hits close to home. The DEA can initiate an investigation and request arrests in Canada??????????? Never mind that MJ is relatively harmless. How's your drug problem America???? Isn't Meth an epidemic!!!! Coke, Crack, Heroine. My god this is fucked up!!! Stay out of our country!!!!! We've got a good thing going. Of course you're all welcome to join in.
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XboxWarrior Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Odd.....
fell right off the front page.......

i would think there might be a concern over this?

wtf do I know.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
30. I agree, so I'm kicking it -- because ...
I really do think that people in the US should know about this, and think about it.

It isn't an act against the sovereignty of Canada, because the searches and arrests were made under bilateral treaties Canada voluntarily sought out and signed.

But the action has political implications, on both sides of the border, and they are worth thinking about.

On the Canadian side, the point is that someone can be arrested and possibly extradited for doing something, in Canada, that our authorities were perfectly aware of and not at all concerned about.

On the US side, it's a story of "your tax dollars in action", and of the ongoing attempt (by the specious and quite ridiculous connection being drawn to terrorism) to manipulate public opinion and maintain the level of feelings of insecurity, and of hostility to things and people outside the borders, that the US administration needs.

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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. NO meth's not a problem...
...simply because meth users tend not to be politically active. If they kill themselves off, who cares, right? :sarcasm:

The American government's war on drugs isn't about protecting us from ourselves, it's about protecting themselves from us. Marijuana users are a threat to the status quo.
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nookiemonster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
40. Reefer madness is alive and well
in the good ole U S of A. It's a shame.

:mad:
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jim3775 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
9. I fully support this guy, but...
it was a foolish selling across the border, he should have known this was going to happen. Maybe it was was his plan all along to get arrested and be a martyr for pot users.
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XboxWarrior Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. He's an oddity.
I guess my concern is not whether people like the guy(thats debatable), but more along the lines of WTF is the DEA doing in Canada busting a fucking seed dealer? :wtf:




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jim3775 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. He is an oddity
But what I liked about his operation is that he took the crime out of it. One of the main excuses used by anti-pot folks is "marijuana funds terrorism" "marijuana funds organized crime" "buying drugs is like supporting violent criminals" this guy sold something which should be legal for lack of a better term legitimately.


CMA:I have never bought anything from him and I don’t smoke.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Protest demonstration today at 2PM PDT in Vancouver
Anybody in the immediate Vancouver vicinity should be down in the 300 block of West Hastings at 2PM.

This is a serious attack on Canada's relaxed attitudes toward marijuana. Emery has conducted business there for a decade with no problems. Now, the DEA wants to send him to prison for LIFE for his seed sales. Just coincidentally, he is probably the most prominent voice for marijuana legalization in Canada.

This is going to put the Canadian government in a difficult position. Do you extradite one of your own citizens to face life in prison for selling pot seeds?

I realize there is a marijuana distribution charge, but I find that hard to believe, given that Emery made millions from seed sales. I am curious to see the basis of that charge.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
45. Probably this...
...here's one US State's definition of marijuana (emphasis added):

"Marijuana" means all parts of plants of the Genus Cannabis, whether growing or not; the seeds thereof; the resin extracted from any part of such plant; and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative mixture, or preparation of such plant, its seeds or resin, but shall not include the mature stalks of such plant, fiber produced from such stalks, oil or cake made from the seeds of such plant, any other compound , manufacture, salt derivative, mixture, or preparation of such mature stalks (except the resin extracted therefrom), fiber, oil, or cake, of the sterilized seed of such plant which is incapable of germination. -R.S. 47:2602
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Protest in Toronto Monday
From the Cannabis Culture forums (Cannabis Culture is Emery's magazine):

Distribute Wide And Far ASAP

Toronto Rally To Stop The DEA! All Canabians At EXTRADITION Risk!

MONDAY, AUGUST 4, 2005
3 PM
TORONTO, ON
U.S. Consulate 360 University Ave.

Attention all Ontario Canabians. Pick up your bongs to preserve Canadian
sovereignty by marching on the consulate.

Something red, white & blue not just green will be burned on 4:20, Monday,
August 4 at the Toronto based U.S. Consulate on 360 University Ave.

Do not let the U.S. openly wage their War on Drugs in our nation. Send the
U.S. consulate a message they won¹t soon forget.

Stop the extradition of Canadian marijuana activists Marc "Prince of Pot"
Emery, Michelle Rainey-Fenkarek and Gregory Williams.

The fascist empire, not content with hauling American drug war resisters
Renee Boje & Steve Kubby before their mockery judicial system now want
Canadians to face their un-justice too.

WE SAY HELL NO! WE WON'T LET THEM GO!
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. There is talk of shutting down border crossings
This is really, really pissing off Canadian pot activists, as well as Canadians who are sick to death of having US policies rammed down their throats.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. This seems like a version of extra-territoriality.
He is quoted as saying that he hadn't left Canada for 6 years, as he knew U.S. authorities would go after him. There is no way Canada should have gone along with this. But the Liberal government always does a dance of going along on some things (e.g. this pot arrest), to get some political capital to not go along on others (e.g. ballistic missile defense). That is how the politicians see it anyway.

The Liberals better watch it - they could lose votes in B.C. to the NDP over this.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. I feel so much safer !!
Assholes.

Since when has Canada done the bidding of US authorities? I thought they wanted to catch criminals that produce victims up there.

What a waste of time for law enforcement. Pot smokers are no danger to me.

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William Bloode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Theres a lot of folks who feel real safe now.
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 02:34 PM by William Bloode
I was thinking of all those folks in the U.S. who have bought seeds from him as they did seize his records. Now i don't know what all he did save, but i know for sure Marc has commented on saving addresses and stuff before.......scary!
Bad thing is Marc has no capital with U.S. heads. He most of the time(or the empolyees) have/had a bad habit of never sending to the U.S., yet keeping the money. He also has a bad reputation for sending knockoffs, or bagseed instead of what was ordered. And last and surely worst Marc has been known to threaten folks who complain about his service, or his lack thereof. Hell he even posted pictures online, and the address of a buddy of mine....shall we call him ReeferMan for the world to see just because ReeferMan was publically complaining because Marc would not pay him for stock sent. :mad:


Iyt really chills me to the bone as it was something similar to this that got many of us busted in the late 80's early 90's with poppa Shrub's operation Green Merchant.

I guess i should be worried to. I spent the last 4yrs running an operation that gave away high quality seeds. Looks like i am out of buisness now. :scared:
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XboxWarrior Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. yes, he sold seeds thru the mail.......
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 04:10 PM by XboxWarrior
but :wtf:

and yes many peeps are freaked right now, as he has threatened to turn in some of his customers in the past(long story)......but in all Honesty, he ran a pretty cool ship.......and ran a treatment center in B.C. FOR FREE!!!
http://www.ibeginagain.org/articles/gail_johnson.shtml
albeit controversial.......it works
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. He does not keep a running list.
But if you wish to be terrified... go ahead.

This was designed to scare.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. he didn't have to keep a running list: electronic surveillance warrants
You can be pretty sure that his internet communications were being intercepted under warrants obtained in Canada, long before these searches took place. A request for mutual legal assistance could have been made in Canada that involved seeking electronic surveillance warrants, and the information seized from those communications could have been used to provide grounds for the search warrants. That's my surmise.

The people in the US with whom he was in contact electronically, and the content of their communications, would be known as a result of such surveillance.

Under the Criminal Code of Canada, identified individuals in Canada would have to be given notice of the fact that their communications were intercepted. Such individuals in the US would not be entitled to notice.

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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Only a 'moran' would use the internet for transactions
w/him. I doubt many w/ more than a few brain cells to rub together would utilize the net.
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. If
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 12:54 AM by CHIMO
A purchase was made using a credit card, then at the minimum the approval for that transaction was processed in the USA. I would imagine that anyone holding a credit card from a US entity would have the transaction completed through US facilities. Some of the Canadian transactions, such as MB NA are also done in the US.

Thus whether or not he has records is really a question of what is admissible in court. I would be quite certain that a money laundering charge would get the patriot act into action and it may just be a question of how this is brought into everyday use.

Another aspect to consider is the recent floating of a gaming house in GB were gambling can be conducted over the internet to some safe haven location. It was the largest such issue. There is the potential for a huge amount of cash. Perhaps even in competition with Vegas.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. WHY would anyone do that!!? If they rubbed a few
brain cells together they would get a money order or a plane ticket.
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Money
Orders can be traced.

It was stated that three million a year was the amount being transferred, That comes to eight or nine thousand a day, day in and day out. So a plane trip and the chance of having seeds found crossing the border has to be factored into the equation.

This has been going on for ten years. There is a certain sense of safety in knowing that it has been occurring for half a generation.

There would seem to be bigger fish to fry than just this case. Think about three million a year that has been going on for ten years. Not that huge in the course of things.

A question that I have, and perhaps someone could answer it for me, is that there are many states that have said that cannabis use is not illegal or at least not a criminal offense. How would this play out if someone in one of those states would have received the seeds?

I didn't see anything about using the mail in the charges which may just indicate that there was no cross border mail being used?
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. They can be if you choose to let them be.
Cash.
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. OK
Not my understanding, but I have never used them. I thought that it could always be traced back. Dug up this from google:

http://www.westernunion.com/info/howToCashPayments.asp

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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Cash payments have NO trace
unless you want thyen to.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. but here we have a red herring
Yes, money orders can be bought with cash and be traceable only to the location where they were sold.

Yes, cash can be sent through the mail.

But it's reasonable to assume that some people did use traceable means to make purchases. All that's needed is one such filled order from the US to provide evidence of an offence committed in the US, I'd think.

The issue really isn't how stupid Marc Emery's customers were.

It's how appropriate it is for the US to be devoting this time, energy and money to pursuing them, and to trying to shut down a business in Canada and prosecute a Canadian resident for the operation of a business that did not seem to be of concern to Canadians.

for our info:
http://www.emeryseeds.com/order.html

Please read and follow all of our ordering and security instructions. We will not be responsible for problems created by a failure to do so.

1. I accept postal money orders, bank money orders, or cashier's checks (available at 7-11, Walmart etc) all made payable to Marc Emery. You do not need to fill out the rest of the money order or put any personal info on it. Keep the receipt in a safe place. Send payment in the mail with your order, alternate selections and name and address. Send Canadian or US funds only.

2. Western Union wires. Contact us by phone or email for the instructions.

I do not accept credit card payments or bank transfers. Do not send cash. There is far too great a possibility for it to become 'lost' in the mail.

Keep your money order or wire receipt.

FILLING OUT YOUR ORDER

Please write clearly and include all requested info in one communication. Do not use just initials or pot-related pseudonyms for the return name. Using these is not a good security measure and attracts more scrutiny, not less. Put a return address on the envelope as well. If it should get misdirected, you'll want it back. Nor do you need to use any other tricky return addressing. Just follow our instructions and security tips.
and more info there.

Of course, the business is no longer operating:
http://www.emeryseeds.com/index.html




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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. A federal offense can be charged even if
there is no state offense. But how far would the DEA go? They are likely out to prove a point with him (and Canada) and get at the customers (unless there are some they want for other reasons).

They are nuts. Under this administration they outlawed any hemp products that were eaten (or even put on the lips) despite the nutritional benefits of hemp products and the lack of THC content.

This business through the mail/computer seems risky anyways. Hope he is careful with addresses, rather then being complacent because he has been safe so long.
When I have purchasing things for even legal indoor gardening here at small gardening supply stores it's suggested that paying with cash is a good idea, even their records have been looked at.

We are such petty bullies.
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. I cant believe this isn't on this greatest page!
People need to know.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. it is now!
And I absolutely agree -- people in the US need to know what new international adventure their govt has embarked on.

But I hope people will also consider the facts as they relate to these kind of bilateral actions (which I've posted in this thread). To summarize it:

Canada and the US have a treaty that provides for searches like this to be conducted in Canada at the request of US authorities (and vice versa) -- as long as the searches are conduced in accordance with Cdn law. That means that the information presented to obtain the search warrants must meet the standards required by the Charter (constitutional) guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure, much as in the US.

And we have a treaty that provides for extradition from Canada to the US (and vice versa) of people charged with offences in the US, as long as the offences are covered by the treaty -- and as long as the individual cannot show that extradition would in some way be a violation of his/her Charter rights.

And this is where our courts will come into it -- all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada. The courts determine the legality of the searches, if they are challenged. And the courts determine the legality of extraditing someone, if the extradition request is fought (which of course it will be).

The Supreme Court of Canada recently refused to extradite two men charged with murder in Washington state, because the prosecution was seeking the death penalty. The SCC held that the procedural guarantees in death penalty cases in the US were insufficient, and so extraditing them would violate their Canadian constitutional rights. (They were Canadian citizens, but US and other nationals would have the same rights here).
http://www.canlii.org/ca/cas/scc/2001/2001scc7.html
Washington state was forced to undertake not to seek the death penalty, in order to have the men extradited.

I expect that Emery will raise several Charter arguments.

The sentences imposed on drug offenders in the US are almost always cruel and unusual by Canadian standards, and so extraditing him to face such a sentence would be a Charter violation.

And even though Canada signed the treaty agreeing to extradite cannabis offenders, and even though the treaty says it applies even if the offence is not an offence in Canada, it would still be a violation of Charter rights to extradite someone to face a charge that is itself unconstitutional in Canada, i.e. it would violate his rights if he were extradited to be tried and punished for something that it is his right to do under the Cdn constitution. Now, it has never been held that laws against trafficking in pot seeds are unconstitutional in Canada, but here would be Emery's opportunity to argue that.

Canadians overwhelmingly regard the courts as the most trustworthy guardians of our constitutional rights and freedoms, and with pretty good reason. I wouldn't say that Emery's extradition is a foregone conclusion, at this point, or in any event that it's likely to happen any time soon.

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. >> please read this
This is a really interesting situation, and a case any lefty / constitutional lawyer would love to get his/her mitts on. (I assisted in one extradition case when I was articling, but they're not very common.)

It is also, obviously, rather significant in terms of the nature of the Canada-US relationship.

CTV said:

The warrant cited a request from U.S. officials.

... "I can express a pretty significant disappointment that police would choose to go this route to go after Marc and others who have been operating there for years with no harm to anyone," Tousaw told CTV.ca News.

This search was conducted in response to a request from the US govt, on the authority of the federal Minister of Justice; the police didn't have a lot to do with it.

(From other experience, I can assure everyone that there had been at least months of investigation, including wiretaps, including Internet surveillance, witness interviews and other surveillance, and the affidavits in support of the request for the wiretap warrants and search warrants would probably have run to the 100s of pages.)

"Request" has a very technical meaning here. It's a "request for mutual legal assistance". It's made under a bilateral agreement between the two countries involved. It's how we went after evidence of corruption against Karlheinz Schreiber and the boys (Brian Mulroney, Frank Moores) in Switzerland, remember?

1997 Justice press release

"This signing is yet another step in helping us to create an international network of mutual legal assistance," said Minister McLellan. " I would like to thank Minister Parkanova and the government of the Czech Republic for taking this step with us."

This is the second such treaty Canada has recently signed with another state. In early September, Canada signed a mutual legal assistance treaty with Trinidad and Tobago. Canada currently has 16 of these treaties in effect, including those with the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and France.
It's international cooperation and the rule of law and all that jazz. It's what we Canadians do, and actively promote throughout the world.

Here's the actual treaty itself:

Canada-US mutual legal assistance treaty

THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

DESIRING to improve the effectiveness of both countries in the investigation, prosecution and suppression of crime through cooperation and mutual assistance in law enforcement matters,

HAVE AGREED AS FOLLOWS:

... Article II
Scope of Application

1. The Parties shall provide, in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty, mutual legal assistance in all matters relating to the investigation, prosecution and suppression of offences.

2. Assistance shall include:

a) examining objects and sites;
b) exchanging information and objects;
c) locating or identifying persons;
d) serving documents;
e) taking the evidence of persons;
f) providing documents and records;
g) transferring persons in custody;
h) executing requests for searches and seizures.

3. Assistance shall be provided without regard to whether the conduct under investigation or prosecution in the Requesting State <here, the US> constitutes an offence or may be prosecuted by the Requested State<here, Canada>.

4. This Treaty is intended solely for mutual legal assistance between the Parties. The provisions of this Treaty shall not give rise to a right on the part of a private party to obtain, suppress or exclude any evidence or to impede the execution of a request.

... Article V
Limitations on Compliance

1. The Requested State may deny assistance to the extent that

a) the request is not made in conformity with the provisions of this Treaty; or
b) execution of the request is contrary to its public interest, as determined by its Central Authority. ...

Article XVI
Search and Seizure

1. A request for search and seizure shall be executed in accordance with the requirements of the law of the Requested State. ...

DONE in duplicate, in the English and French languages, each language version being equally authentic, at Quebec City, this 18th day of March, 1985.
BRIAN MULRONEY For the Government of Canada
RONALD REAGAN For the Government of the United States of America
Haha, just threw that last bit in for fun.

What has happened is that the US has made a request for the extradition of Emery and his associates, and made a request for mutual legal assistance so that it can acquire the evidence that it believes is located in Canada, that it needs in order to make out its case against Emery. That is all on the up and up -- it is entitled to do these things under the treaties.

We have an extradition treaty with the US as well, of course, and it is what the extradition request is made and considered, and ultimately (possibly) the extradition carried out, under:

Canada-US extradition treaty

Article 1

Each Contracting Party agrees to extradite to the other, in the circumstances and subject to the conditions described in this Treaty, persons found in its territory who have been charged with, or convicted of, any of the offenses covered by Article 2 of this Treaty committed within the territory of the other ... .

Schedule

... 26. Offenses against the laws relating to the traffic in, production, manufacture, or importation of narcotic drugs, Cannabis sativa L., hallucinogenic drugs, amphetamines, barbiturates, cocaine and its derivatives.
<I'm not seeing money laundering in there, or in the 1974 protocol, but I'm no expert>
... Article 4

(1) Extradition shall not be granted in any of the following circumstances:

... (iii) When the offense in respect of which extradition is requested is of a political character, or the person whose extradition is requested proves that the extradition request has been made for the purpose of trying or punishing him for an offense of the above-mentioned character. If any question arises as to whether a case comes within the provisions of this subparagraph, the authorities of the Government on which the requisition is made shall decide. ...
What we can now expect to see, if I've sussed out what's going on accurately, is protracted proceedings in which Emery maybe claims that he is exempt from extradition under (1)(iii) just above there -- political prosecution, heh -- but certainly makes various Charter arguments against extraditing him. Recall that the Supreme Court did refuse to allow extradition to the US in the fairly recent case of the two men charged with murder in a northwestern US state and liable to the death penalty.

The arguments will be very interesting. In the death-penalty extradition case, the decision was essentially based on procedure -- the inability of the US state to guarantee procedural fairness in applying the death penalty, not the unconstitutionality in Canada of the death penalty or of extraditing someone to be executed. We haven't gone quite as far as, say, France, which has formally announced its refusal to deport in death penalty cases.

But Emery will have substantive Charter arguments as well, about the nature of the laws that relate to cannabis -- and the cruel and unusual sentences imposed for drug offences in the US. He wouldn't have much of a Charter argument against money-laundering charges, for instance.

Karlheinz Schreiber had argued that the search in Switzerland did not meet Charter standards. The fed govt here wondered how the hell they were supposed to ensure that a search in another country met Charter standards. The Supreme Court disposed of the question in the govt's favour: Schreiber v. Canada, 1998

Per L'Heureux-Dubé, McLachlin, Bastarache and Binnie JJ.:

By virtue of s. 32 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Charter is applicable to all matters within the authority of Parliament and the government of Canada. The specific actions undertaken by Canadian officials must be assessed to determine if they infringe a right or freedom guaranteed by the Charter.

Section 8 of the Charter protects S from intrusions upon his privacy by the government of Canada through unreasonable use of the power of search or seizure.

By itself, the sending of the letter of request does not engage s. 8 of the Charter. All of those actions that rely on state compulsion in order to interfere with S's privacy interests were undertaken in Switzerland by Swiss authorities and are not subject to Charter scrutiny. Drawing a line between those Canadian actions that did not implicate the Charter, and the actions by Swiss authorities that would have implicated the Charter had they been undertaken by Canadian authorities, is consistent with this Court's jurisprudence on matters involving Canada's international co-operation in criminal investigations and prosecutions. ...
This might actually go in Emery's favour in his case -- according to the SCC, Canada's standards apply when the search is carried out in Canada. So if he has a successful Charter argument of some sort against the search, the US would be shit out of luck in that regard.

He will probably also challenge Canada's entitlement to extradite him at all, arguing that the provision of the treaty relating to cannabis is unconstitutional.

Like I say, it should be long and interesting.

But let's keep in mind -- Canada was, at least as far as I can tell from the scant facts -- NOT acting as a puppet of the US, it was acting under and in accordance with the international obligations that it had voluntarily assumed:

- to provide mutual legal assistance by conducting searches that would be legal if the Cdn police authorities were conducting them;

- to provisionally arrest a person for extradition where the other party to the treaty has requested extradition.

Emery *is* entitled to a hearing on the extradition request, under the Extradition Act:

11. (1) A request by an extradition partner for the provisional arrest or extradition of a person shall be made to the Minister.

(2) A request by an extradition partner for the provisional arrest of a person may also be made to the Minister through Interpol.

... 12. The Minister may, after receiving a request by an extradition partner for the provisional arrest of a person, authorize the Attorney General to apply for a provisional arrest warrant, if the Minister is satisfied that

(a) the offence in respect of which the provisional arrest is requested is punishable in accordance with paragraph 3(1)(a); and

(b) the extradition partner will make a request for the extradition of the person.

... 15. (1) The Minister may, after receiving a request for extradition and being satisfied that the conditions set out in paragraph 3(1)(a) and subsection 3(3) are met in respect of one or more offences mentioned in the request, issue an authority to proceed that authorizes the Attorney General to seek, on behalf of the extradition partner, an order of a court for the committal of the person under section 29.

... 24. (1) The judge shall, on receipt of an authority to proceed from the Attorney General, hold an extradition hearing.

I mean, we could just send him to, oh, the Netherlands so he could be tortured or something until he confessed, of course.



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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Wow thanks very much! Extremely informative!
What do you think will happen to any customer lists? Does the US get them in any form and are they free to undertake legal investigations of those people. or odes all of te eveidence have to wait until the matter of extradition is cleared up?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. that's an interesting question!
What do you think will happen to any customer lists? Does the US get them in any form and are they free to undertake legal investigations of those people. or odes all of te eveidence have to wait until the matter of extradition is cleared up?

First, to isolate the issue: the search warrants and extradition request are separate. The US could have requested "mutual legal assistance" to get the information, even if no Canadians were involved in the alleged offences at all. If they were purely investigating individuals in the US for offences allegedly committed in the US, they could have asked for search warrants (and electronic surveillance warrants) for Emery's premises and communications lines, for instance.

Then, if the targets were US residents, they would have to challenge the searches in the US courts, under US law. That's what happened in the Canadian case of former Prime Minister Mulroney and his cohorts, who were being investigated for corruption in Canada. The Cdn govt obtained mutual legal assistance from Switzerland, which searched bank records there. One of the men challenged the searches in Canada. He didn't challenge anything in Switzerland, since he wasn't being investigated or charged there -- although if the searches hadn't complied with *Swiss* law, he could have done something maybe. But hmm, Canada did already have the information, yes. But hmm, if the information had been illegally obtained in Switzerland, perhaps he could have had it excluded here ...

The *targets* of these searches in Canada would have recourse in Canada -- if they argued searches were improper, and if the information obtained was submitted to a court here, they could seek to have it excluded from Canadian courts. What would happen to it if it were excluded ... I don't actually know! If it were improperly obtained, the police would surely have to destroy it. (I'm passingly familiar with obtaining warrants for wiretaps, e.g., and they have really very strict rules for executing them -- things like not listening to conversations with lawyers and then having the judge listen to the tapes and decide whether the police may hear them. Nonetheless, if they had obtained names and so on after executing a warrant issued by a judge, it would be difficult to un-learn them if the warrant was successfully challenged.)

The incidental people, the ones whose information was discovered and who aren't resident in Canada and who weren't named in the search warrants ... that's a tough one. (Damnably, if I'd finished the big job of work I was supposed to be doing these last few weeks, my research might have led me to the answer.) People inside Canada ultimately have to be notified of any interception of their communications under a warrant -- even if they were not named in the warrant -- but people outside Canada don't.

Because of the obvious fact that third-party info would be obtained in these searches (and was obviously being sought, as evidence of the commission of a crime *in the US*, and of conspiracy) ... well, I really just don't know! I would have thought that the judge might have included a condition requiring the sealing of the evidence until s/he could determine what rights third parties might have, or some such.

I'm going to listen out for something about that, now that you raise it. It's obviously a matter of concern in these mutual legal assistance actions, on both sides of the border. Emery's own communications may have been intercepted in the course of surveillance of people in the US under warrants there, as well, so the question goes both ways in this case.

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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. Can't have outsiders cutting Govt. profits
now can we
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
36. Perhaps A Simple
Reason might be the best. We sometimes don't consider the obvious.

Just imagine that you are charged with protecting the border. Your neighbour finds a tunnel into your backyard. Your boss wants to know why you aren't doing your job, how come you didn't find this?

"Well we have a lot of cases going on and we have a case that has been going on and we are about to break. It is a big case". "Just watch the news boss".

Perhaps? Maybe? Someone may have a red face? Just an idea.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. simple reason - but not that one
The visible/business end of the tunnel was on the Cdn side -- in a hut, which is where all the dirt came out and construction supplies went in. Nothing was actually going on, on the US side -- the tunnel was going to come up under someone's living room, once it was completed.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2005/07/22/build/nation/50-tunnel-border.inc

Authorities had been monitoring construction of the tunnel for six months and had allowed its operators to make at least a few trips -- all under surveillance -- before sealing the passage Wednesday, McKay said.

... Canadian authorities learned of the tunnel in February and alerted U.S. officials.

Pat Fogarty, a law enforcement official in British Columbia, said Canadian border guards "saw dirt going out and construction materials going in. They thought it was something we should check out."

On July 2, U.S. agents entered the home on the American side to examine the passageway. They later installed cameras and listening devices in the home.

"We were in there before it was completed. There was not a day they did anything that we weren't assessing them," said Greg Gassett, a Drug Enforcement Administration agent.
It was a joint surveillance operation, and not a surprise on the US side that anyone would be red-faced about. The only detectable activity had been on the Canadian side.

The surveillance of Emery himself may not have been as extensive as I had surmised. If the evidence found at the US grow-ops (see my other post) indicated that seeds had been purchased from him, that's all the grounds that would have been needed for the warrant requests and extradition requests, and they could have been made in short order. Of course, the US authorities were no doubt actively looking for evidence of shipments from him to the US already.


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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
43. info from on-line discussion clarifies some things - US grow-ops
From an associate of Marc Emery's:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=1126206

The charges are from the US. Marc and the others are being charged with conspiracy to <produce> marijuana in the US (by selling seeds to Americans.)

Everything is seed-related. I think they busted some US grows which <they> can show were grown from seeds bought from Marc.

The US authorities bust grow-ops in the US.

They obtain evidence that the seeds used by the grow-ops were purchased from Emery.

This provides a basis for a charge against Emery of conspiracy to cultivate cannabis in the US.

If the grow-ops in question were using money obtained from sales of cannabis or other drugs (or other illegal activities; grow-ops are often operated by elements of organized crime) to purchase seeds from Emery, it seems there would be a basis for the money-laundering charges.


It all really isn't likely to be trumped-up out of thin air with no evidentiary basis, and we shouldn't think or suggest that it is.

On the other hand, we shouldn't think that there wasn't considerable pressure on the Cdn govt to obtain the warrants etc., even though the Cdn authorities really don't give a shit what Emery gets up to.


Now, what I want to see is: next time a handgun used to facilitate a robbery or commit a homicide in Toronto is traced to a dealer in the US, the US BAFTE raids the dealer at Canada's request, and Canada seeks extradition on charges of conspiring to smuggle firearms into Canada, etc. etc.

Ha. Ha. Ha. We do know who wears the pants in this relationship.

And we'd already heard the sabres rattling when it came to what the junior partner was going to be allowed to do within its own borders:

http://www.canadawebpages.com/pc-editorial.asp?Key=415&editorPrimeKeyword=PoliticsCanada&editorType=site&editorLink=

Boston Globe Newspaper -
interview
26/06/2003

Cellucci warns Canada on marijuana - Says law change would force US to hike security
- By Associated Press, 6/2/2003:

WORCESTER -- US Ambassador to Canada Paul Cellucci says he has told Canadian leaders that their proposal to decriminalize marijuana for personal use would result in much tighter security along its 5,500-mile border with the United States. ...
And undoubtedly not just that.

This action is a plain indication that the US will be the one deciding what goes on in Canada. Unfortunately, Canada's hands are tied, in the first instance, by our extradition and mutual legal assistance treaties.

And also by our adherence to the 1988 United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances.
http://www.unac.org/en/link_learn/monitoring/susdev_bodies_drugs.asp
That United Nations that so many right-wingers in the US love to hate because it will force the US to do things it doesn't want to do. Of course, once again, when it's the US doing the forcing ...



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ScamUSA.Com Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
46. BUMP
free marc emery
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. boot

It is to be hoped that our USAmerican cousins have read the story and learned of their government's actions, even if they haven't commented ...

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Running Free Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-04-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
49. My letter E-Mailed to the entire NDP Caucus...
Edited on Thu Aug-04-05 10:16 AM by Running Free
Note: Nobody is called a bitch here...

Dear Honourable Members:

During the January 2003 leadership campaign, Jack Layton spoke out in favour of the legalisation of cannabis, a promise that Liberal governments have consistently made and broken in the wake of the Canadian Senate’s 1972 Le Dain Report, which recommended that cannabis be legalised and appropriately regulated. Le Dain’s recommendations were reiterated (but not subsequently acted upon) in a 2002 report from the Senate’s Special Committee on Illegal Drugs. Subsequently, Mr. Layton would appear with Marc Emery in the fall of 2003 (coincidentally the same time that I joined the party), garnering considerable public support for the NDP by again expressing support for the liberalisation of our cannabis laws. Mr. Layton, however, has since back-pedalled, remaining silent when Saskatchewan arrested Mr. Emery for passing a joint in the summer of 2004.

Lamentably, the silence has since grown all the more deafening, with neither Mr. Layton nor the party making a statement regarding Mr. Emery’s recent arrest and potential extradition to the United States of America for selling cannabis seeds to Americans, even though he has never violated the law while on American soil, even though he has sold enough seeds to face life in prison in a jurisdiction where capital punishment is prescribed for the cultivation of over 60,000 cannabis plants, even though a majority of Canadians do not view his behaviour as criminal, even though Canada’s laws prohibiting the distribution of viable cannabis seats have not been enforced in over 35 years, even though the seeds that Emery sold may not even meet the definition of “viable” that exists under our current cannabis laws, and even though Washington and Beijing-led prohibitionist policies have proven to be a miserable failure, both in Canada and abroad. To be fair however, NDP MP Libby Davies did release statements on both the recent situation and the 2004 prison sentence, although the party failed to amplify her words and take any official position.

This disenchanting show of weakness represents a direct contradiction to the strong core of ideals that has led me and millions of progressive-minded Canadians to join or support the New Democratic Party. These ideals include an unwavering commitment to the protection and the expansion of our civil liberties, a desire for a strong and sovereign Canada governed by and for Canadians, a willingness to work for social justice, for economic fairness, and for sustainable development within the framework of a vibrant mixed economy comprising a strong labour movement, and an ethos that strives for social change when the status quo is simply not acceptable.

The NDP now stands at a crossroads, in a position to do one of two things: First, the party can take a strong, uncompromising stance in support of our civil liberties and of Canadian sovereignty, proving beyond doubt’s ever-looming shadow that it truly is the movement that we and millions of our predecessors have strived and struggled to build. Alternatively, we can waver and lay down when strength remains the only option, a road that -- as Bob Rae proved to us -- is paved only in ruin. For it was not the timid that unveiled Quebec’s great cloak of darkness, it was not the meek that allowed Tommy Douglas to corral Saskatchewan’s Liberal and Conservative robber bandits, and it was not the cowards that kicked Maggie out of 10 Downing Street.

In liberty, equality, and democracy,

Running Free


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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-04-05 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
50. The DEA is an arm of the corporate interests.
Edited on Thu Aug-04-05 11:11 AM by DiverDave
Big Pharma, the Dupont's, et al...

Fuck them and FUCK the DEA.

Yeah I said it, what are ya gonna do about it?

(Thats for agent mike)

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Running Free Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-04-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. What will I do about it?
If the NDP does nothing, I will run as an independent candidate in my riding and focus my entire campaign on discrediting the party I once loved.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-04-05 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Agent mike is the fibbie
assigned to "watch over" DU...
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