Hillary Clinton to take on Rockstar over Hot Coffee

[Joz]

Tomorrow in the country's capital, Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) will call on the Federal Trade Commission to launch an inquiry into the "Hot Coffee" mod, sources have told GameSpot.

Clinton, a vociferous critic of violence in the media, will be joined by David Walsh, president and founder of the National Institute on Media and the Family; Mary Bissell, fellow at the New America Foundation; and Kiersten Stewart, director of public policy for the Family Violence Prevention Fund.

Clinton is expected to call on the FTC to determine who is responsible for the Hot Coffee mod, a modification that unlocks sexually explicit minigames in Rockstar's recently published PC version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

While the game is rated M, and therefore not readily sold to those below the age of 17, the mod is easily available online.

A statement distributed by the Senator's office this afternoon sets the scene, stating that "following recent reports revealing that the video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has graphic pornographic content which may be unlocked by following instructions on the Internet, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton will hold a press conference to discuss legislative solutions to keep inappropriate video game content out of the hands of young people." The statement makes no mention of asking the FTC to step in, but sources tell GameSpot that this request will be the centerpiece of the Senator's plea tomorrow.

Although there are far more outspoken politicians when it comes to regulating game content inappropriate for children, this is not the first time Clinton has looked into the issue. On her official Web site, Clinton lists "fighting the culture of sex and violence in the media" as part of her platform, and in March, she joined with Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Sam Brownback (R-KS), and Rick Santorum (R-PA) to cosponsor legislation seeking $90 million over five years for research into how viewing different types of media (television, video games, and the Internet in particular) affects children's development.

Clinton plans on holding the press event at 10am in Room 485 of the Russell Senate Office Building.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/13/news_6129021.html

[arcos]

1. damn... I was just about to post this...

and from exactly the same source...

:P

[Joz]

2. Hah, been trying to post it for the past half hour but my connection

kept going bunk!

[Ken Burch]

3. Question:

Will Hillary demand that "HOT COFFEE" be banned, or will she settle for the release of a less-violent version called "DECAF"?

[Joz]

4. haha! n/t

[wmills551]

5. Good for Hillary

We don't need porn in kid's games!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. GTA is NOT a kids' game.

Unless blowing away cops during a drug deal and then yelling "shit, motherfucker" is your idea of good clean fun.

[wmills551]

7. Do you know a lot of adults who play it?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. Yes, actually.

I just posted down-thread that I don't understand. It's a game about murdering cops, and Hillary is mad about it including... porn?

[wmills551]

11. So you would support her if her focus was the violence?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

15. No. n/t

[wmills551]

18. would you have a problem with

graphic porn being hidden but available to DVDs? I would.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. This isn't something you can just stumble across...

You have to go actively download something from the internet and install it in order to get at it. I would suggest that the same internet connection could very easily take you to sites that would make anything that happens to be hidden in GTA look quite tame.

And no, I don't have a problem with pictures of naked people being in a game where the objective is to murder people and conduct drug deals.

[youspeakmylanguage]

61. You obviously don't know what "graphic porn" is either...

These are hilarious clips of animated, 3-D cartoon people simulating sex. If you think this is graphic porn, then someone here has been woefully missing out on the good stuff.

[Occulus]

183. I think I see where you're going with this

and it's just NOT going to fly. This is nothing like a DVD. At all.

There's a new game coming, an adventure game called Oblivion. It's going to be the most visually stunning RPG yet, judging from the screenshots (which say nothing for seeing it in motion in a video), and the characters are some of the most realistic-looking characters yet. We can thanks Half-Life 2's Source engine for this.

Here's a screenie, to illustrate the realism of the overall world I'm talking about:



You can walk through that, by the way; that's a still of the world in which you will play Oblivion.

Games are becoming more and ever more realistic, with a greater and greater ability to add professional-quality user-created content. So, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that, in Oblivion's case, someone could (for example) come up with an elaborate user-created mod in which the questing hero embarks upon a mission to save the quintessential Damsel in Distress- and the reward is, he has sex with her. However, the modder carefully creates the mod in such a way that the actual sex act itself is an integral part of the plot, and for good reason as far as the plot is concerned (say, the actual union causes the woman's God to appear and grant your character some grand abilities or some such).

That's a little silly of an example; ironically, exactly such an act occurs in Terry Goodkind's novel "Temple of the Winds". It's a legitimate, if adult, plot device.

If we allow our legislators to go after Rockstar for the Hot Coffee mod (and wasn't the mod itself created by a user of the game?), they could, for example, amend the DMCA to make modding illegal, or severely limited (having to provide proof of age for the ability to edit the game, for example; or requiring additional content used to do so sold in a separate package); legislators here have, in their uninformed, almost completely ignorant minds, an opportunity to deal a serious blow to user created content as a whole.

They'll think they're only addressing this one particular instance, and they'll go and overreach by making content not directly associated with the final gaming product impossible to include with the game itself, or they'll go and do something equally stupid that puts a chill upon user content.

I don't see a very good outcome here, regardless of what they intend to do.

[Joz]

13. Me and about 5+ of my twenty-something friends play it..

and thats who the target audience of this game is.. I think we qualify as adults.

[wmills551]

17. Oh, I see, the target audience is young adults

just like the cigarette companies never would target youth.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. So as far as you're concerned....

what is the solution? Ban the game?

[wmills551]

23. sensible government regulation

of the entertainment industry. Hillary is off to a good start!

[drhilarius]

24. Yes, much better than parents actually parenting.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

25. So...

1) Should they be allowed to sell a game with that amount of violence to adults?

2) Should they be allowed to sell a game with porn to adults?

3) How is it Rockstar's responsibility to ensure retailers do what they're supposed to do.

[wmills551]

30. Yes they should be able to sell a violent and pornographic

video game to adults. They should not be allowed to market them to adolescents. GTA is only heavily marketed to children much younger than 21, much younger than 17, for that matter.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

31. How do you decide what constitutes marketing to adolescents? n/t

[wmills551]

32. print and tv advertisements

In magazines and on TV shows that are primarily watched by adolescents. Do you see GTA running spots on CNN or MTV?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. Do you really think that will stop kids from playing it?

I sure don't.

I'm sure glad we made the tobacco companies stop marketing to children, because now no children smoke.

I'm not suggesting that it should be legal to sell booze or cigs to 10 year olds. I'm only pointing out that this solution doesn't actually work well.

[wmills551]

39. Just because government regulation

doesn't work 100% of the time we should just give up?

[Bob3]

45. As far as regulating the amount of Mercury in the water supply

for example yes we should and must push for regulations - there is solid evidence that mercury does hideous things to people. However despite years of frothing at the mouth nobody's been able to prove video games or movies or books or tv shows have that kind of effect. And since Freedom of speech is a basic right of this republic - it behooves one to err on the side of caution when speaking of government control of such a right.

[KittyWampus]

94. Bullshit, Violence On TV/Videos Has CERTAINLY Been Proved To Have

an ill effect on individuals and society.

First of all, Your Subconscious mind does NOT distinguish between taking a gun and actually shooting someone and playing a "game" of shooting a gun with visuals in front of you showing all the gorey action.

Second, the simple truth is that watching that crap contributes to the Violence in our Collective Unconscious.

If you don't want Violence in your immediate personal or surrounding environment then don't freaking support it by engaging in it ON ANY LEVEL.

Every hear the saying Garbage in- Garbage out?

You put Violence in and it's going to come out somewheres, somehow.

If you watch that crap, you are a hypocrite if you then complain about violence in your home, violence on the streets or violence perpetrated by our government upon foreign countries.

If you want Peace in the world then make that your goal 100% of your time.

[youspeakmylanguage]

96. Utter BS...

There have literally been tens of MILLIONS of these games sold. There are not tens of millions of teens and adults who are violent criminals or have even committed violent crimes.

Anyone who blames video games for inspiring them to commit violence was already mentally or emotionally unhinged to begin with.

I've played violent video games for over 10 years. I have never committed a violent crime.

[KittyWampus]

104. You Didn't Read What Was Written. Go Back & Reread My Post. Engaging In

video violence may not "inspire" YOU to commit said violence but it feeds on the violence around you.

It effects you in other ways.

Haven't you ever heard the saying "be the change you want to see in the world".

Make a decision, support Peace 100% or you are contributing to the violence in the world.

[youspeakmylanguage]

114. I support real efforts to bring about peace...

I think politicians should stop wasting time on BS like this and get back to working on ending our violent and deadly occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Perhaps you should study the Japanese popular media. Their books, comics, movies, and games are chock full of sex and violence in many perverted shapes and flavors. They also have an incredibly peaceful society where violent crime is minimal.

I believe that denying people harmless and entertaining outlets to relieve their aggression leads to more real, harmful aggression.

But hey, it's your utopia, right? We all just live here.

[Zhade]

213. Great point about the Japanese.

NT!

[JHB]

207. When you put it like that...

...then I guess I'll contribute to the violence in the world.

Congratulations.

[LanternWaste]

273. I don't know whether to hug you or hate you!

"Make a decision, support Peace 100% or you are contributing to the violence in the world. "

SLAP. With that line, you have allowed me to see a perspective that I have not looked at before. Now, I'm going to re-evaluate this statement over and over again for the next month and look at it from as many different side as possible, but...

I have a strong feeling there are some PC games my friends and I play that I won't be a part of too much longer.

I don't know whether to hug you and say thanks, or get mad at you for illustrating this to me.

[mccoyn]

169. Reality and fantasy are different things.

I woke up this morning and thought it would be nice to not go into work today. Would it be fair for my boss to fire me or reduce my pay?

I enjoy violent fantasy games. Would it be fair for the government to consider me violent or reduce my free speech rights?

[Zhade]

211. First, you have to prove there IS a Collective Unconscious.

NT!

[n0_data]

292. Ugh

First of all, Your Subconscious mind does NOT distinguish between taking a gun and actually shooting someone and playing a "game" of shooting a gun with visuals in front of you showing all the gorey action.

Prove it.

Second, the simple truth is that watching that crap contributes to the Violence in our Collective Unconscious.

:eyes:

If you watch that crap, you are a hypocrite if you then complain about violence in your home, violence on the streets or violence perpetrated by our government upon foreign countries.

If you want Peace in the world then make that your goal 100% of your time.

Lobotomies for everyone!

[LivingInTheBubble]

372. a post full of fallacious arguments, congratulations.

I used to love Sim City and spent hours a day on it, i never once tried to build a real house or even thought of it.
I used to play a multiplayer game online that involved killing the enemy team. After playing it 5 hours a day for at least a year (a few years ago) not only didnt I kill anyone but I never laid a finger on anyone.

Do you watch any television at all, do you find yourself acting out what you see. Or do you watch TV programmes about fallacious arguments :-)

provide some evidence of your "CERTAINLY been proved" or pipe down.

[iconoclastNYC]

353. Parents are what stops children from playing it. n/t

[chopper]

46. huh

the only commercials i've seen for GTA have been during prime time or at night.

got any proof of this statement that its primarily advertised in mags and TV shows for adolescents? full-page ads in teen people magazine?

[Cocoa]

54. I've seen it advertised during WWE

and I wasn't watching WWE, I was just passing thru. :-)

[evolved Anarchopunk]

63. 21 is the drinking age and applies to nothing else in law n/t

[Moochy]

97. Lets see, being 30 something years old

and looking at MY copy of GRAND THEFT AUTO : San Andreas, I see a
Mature 17+ rating on it. Seems pretty clear to me.

Why the hell can't parents take away the computer or ps2? oh thats right it's SOCIETY's place to dumb down itself so that your lazy ass doesnt have to take some active role in your childrens lives?

Give me a break, so disappointed.

"How can i possibly know what they are playing?"

[seaglass]

243. You can prevent your child from playing this game at your

home - you can't prevent your child from playing it at someone else's home. Respectable-seeming parents allow their kids to have these games.

My daughter at 12 played one of these games at her friend's house before I had ever heard of the game (yes, as a parent I'm expected to know all).

If you REALLY think that a parent is supposed to be able to control what goes on in their child's life every moment of the day, whether they are with you or not - then you have very unrealistic expectations.

[PittPoliSci]

311. i'm sorry

I'm terribly sorry if your child was offended by stuff like this, but please, don't tell me what kind of games an adult can or cannot purchase.

[EchoV]

329. It's not the adults they're talking about.

Look, an adult of course can buy anything they want. But if I'm a parent and I see a 'mature' rating on the game... I'm thinking ok, my 15 year old boy is mature enough for this game. Now if my 15 year old can modify this game... that's when I have a problem. Just say on the package... can be modified into pornographic material. Then I say, sorry kid, you can't play it. How on earth is that violating any adult's right to buy this game? I'm not saying ban the game. Just give parent's the proper information. Now then, if this is not the manufactor's fault... fine. But making the public aware that this can happen is important because now I can say, if it's rated 'M' kid you aren't playing it.

[mccoyn]

334. Microsoft Word can be modified into pornographic material.

Also Mozilla Firefox and every other piece of software ever written. And lets not forget that to get the mod, they have to go online, where pornographic material is already widely available.

You are suggesting that all software carry a 'Can be modified into pornographic material' sticker?

[fujiyama]

340. The "M" Rating

clearly has an age listed on that. Just like R rated films, it says it should be for 17 years and older:



Does every R Rated film you rent or buy at the store say why it's rated R? No, most don't. You have to be ready for sex (some R rated films have full frontal nudity, violence, and explicit language).

[LivingInTheBubble]

373. Your kid is mature enough to simulate killing but not sex?

oh dear.

[fujiyama]

341. That's a poor excuse

What if there was an R rated film at your daughter's friend's home? What if an irrisponsible older sibling of your daughter's friend gave your daughter alcohol? Clearly that's not meant to be consumed by anyone younger, but people do all the time. That's the risk of a free society. We have labels to tell the parents what's on the media (whether it's a film, video game, or music album).

Look at the ratings guide on the above post. It's very simple to follow.

[iconoclastNYC]

354. So it's the governments responsibility to shield your children

From objectional material?

Do you really want to hand teh government that power just to save your kid from seeing some animated simulated sex?

[eShirl]

33. just what we need: government censorship of media

Maybe novels can be next.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

35. I do not want the Republicans in Congress...

...telling me what my children can or can't watch. Hell, I don't want the democrats in congress telling me that.

Can you hear me, Joe Lieberman?

[VegasWolf]

149. Exactly, or Hillary. She's pandering to the wing nuts for 2008. nt

[wmills551]

38. I am sure

the corporations that make violent and pornographic entertainment that is marketed for are children would love that argument.

[Bassic]

44. I don't know about the states

but in Canada (at least where I live), they're not selling to minors. Hell I got carded when I bought and I'm frikin' 26!

Course they can pirate it, but it's pretty hard to hide a big game on a hard drive.

So if children are playing this game, their parents aren't paying enough attention.

[eShirl]

47. the solution is not selling to children, rather than censoring what adults

can buy. Sheesh!

[youspeakmylanguage]

64. You have offered no proof you back this assertion up...

Provide one, just one, concrete example of Rockstar Games advertising this product, "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas", during:

1) A childrens' television show.
2) In a childrens' magazine.
3) On a childrens' website.
4) On a childrens' radio station.

I think you're just repeating a talking point you picked up from some "concerned" parents group. Prove me wrong.

[LynneSin]

221. How about you proove that....

Children have never watched:

1)TV shows geared more towards adults
2)Magazines geared more torwards adults
3)Websites geared towards grownups
4)Radio stations geared for adults.

Now, I"m not talking about porn mags/websites etc. I'm talking stuff that is available out there for everyone to read, watch or purchase even if you're a 12 year old kid. I've seen GTA:San Andreas on MTV plenty of times when it first came out and believe me, kids under the age of 18 play the game.

Personally, I find it amusing they go after GTA and yet a game like The Sims, especially Sims1 (don't know if they cleaned it up for Sim2) is filled with tons of sexual stuff in it including homosexuality (yes, I left my Sims on Free Will and found out one of them was gay - go figure). AND you can easily find downloads on the net to remove the censor page and include add-ins for your Sims to all sorts of interesting stuff!

Personally, my only issue is the hidden stuff on GTA. There are 2 things that we all know - GTA is a very violent video game and that kids can easily get ahold of it even if it's rated 17+. I know that 'Easter Eggs' are hidden all over games & DVD, my concern is if this is graphic porn that the game should be labelled as such even if it is a hidden egg.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

228. The content in question is not included with the game

It is not an Easter Egg included within the game itself.

It's outside content created by a user that must be downloaded and installed into the game.

It's a lot easier to just download straight porn than installing this little mini-game.

[AlGore-08.com]

262. That's the $64,000 question - - Rockstar has denied that it's their code

But ESRB hasn't finished it's probe into whether the hack is totally responsible for the sex scenes, or whether the scenes are included in the game and the hack just accesses them.

This will be very interesting if it turns out the hack is completely responsible for the content and the ESRB gave the game the right rating...

[evermind]

342. That's surprising - I've read at GTA fan sites that the code was present

in the released build of GTA-SA but not enabled (i.e. unreachable without modifying the released executable) so the modification just "unlocked" it - as though R* had planned to include it but had second thoughts and didn't remove the code.

That was what I was reading at what I'd consider the most informed sources - places like www.gtasanandreas.net and www.gtaforums.com

I have to say I've purchased, played, and greatly enjoyed, the (official unmodified version of!) the game..

[iconoclastNYC]

357. That's not what the author said.

The author said the mod only 'unlocks' what is in the game itself. I read this on his site.

[Bob3]

41. "sensible government regulation"

so chemical companies can pour poison into the water, other firms can fill the air with chemicals, flood the market with highly touted drugs that don't work - and what is really needed is the regulation of the video game industry - that's going to make everything okay?

My head hurts now.

[youspeakmylanguage]

69. "sensible government regulation" = censorship (n/t)

[Beware the Beast Man]

152. "sensible government regulation"= censorship.

oops. Just saw reply #69 :D

[iconoclastNYC]

352. What is sensible?

And do you think Focus on the Family (who have a hugely disproportunate amount of power) are going to agree with you?

WE should not open Pandoras Box.

Parents have the responsibility to monitor what thier children are doing.

If i was a parent i wouldn't let my child play video games or watch TV.

But i dont want the government playing Nanny so lazy parents can further abdicate thier responsibility to monitor what thier children are doing.

[NNguyenMD]

107. last I checked, 18 plus was considered an adult, big f----ing deal if we

play naughty videogames with porn on them.

[youspeakmylanguage]

68. A lot of adults you play it post to this board...

The only people I know who play it are adults. The parents I know who have kids old enough to play video games are competent and caring enough to pick age-appropriate games for their kids.

[bspence]

80. Yes, I'm one of them. I'm 30 and I play it.

[bspence]

86. ...and my 28 year old brother plays it, my 25 year old assistant plays...

...and on and on.

It's like attacking that evil rock and roll music. STFU Hillary.

[NNguyenMD]

103. 24 yrs old, and I play GTA:San Andreas with a grin from ear to ear

[Kraklen]

137. The average video game player is in their late twenties.

But everybody under 70 already knew that.

[Sterling]

200. I do and I am in my 30's

A truly great game. I guess I am just a bad person, I like freedom to say and think what I want.

[Dr Fate]

223. I play it. I'm an adult. I dont know any children who bought it legally.

n/t

[PittPoliSci]

310. over the last year...

I've worked in both a toy store and a video rental store.

I've ID'ed everyone who didn't look obviously 20 for the game, and I always told parents what the game was about before I've sold it to a minor.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

224. The only people I know who play it are adults

My friends with kids are savvy enough not to buy that game for their kids.

It's highly publicized that it's an Adult game -- and says so right on the box.

[NEDem]

268. I'm playing it right now and I'm in my mid 30's.

It's NOT a kids game.

[PittPoliSci]

309. I happen to be one.

When I see liberals attacking art, I cringe. That's stuff for the fundies to do.

I'm an adult, I play GTA, back off.

[progressivebydesign]

121. Unfortunately parents try too hard to be "cool" and let their kids own it.

Most people who play it are probably under 17, but I guess some parents feel that graphic violence is somehow entertainment.

[iwantmycountryback]

362. It's not MEANT to be a kids game

But believe me kids play it.

[iwantmycountryback]

363. It's not MEANT to be a kids game

But believe me kids play it.

[youspeakmylanguage]

60. This isn't a kids game. It's rated for MATURE audiences.

Try again, or take your self-rightous ignorance elsewhere.

[Name removed]

235. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drfresh]

302. There goes my vote... again

Hillary is making it reaaally difficult for me to like her. Find a something else to take on... anything!

[evermind]

339. It's an offence to sell it to under 18s in the UK, similar elsewhere.

So it's not a kids' game at all. No doubt kids play it, but whoever supplied it to them is breaking the law, just like they would be in supplying porn to minors.

Also the "porn" isn't available in the game as supplied. Modifications circulating on the net need to be downloaded and applied to enable it.

Though it's true that the "copulation mini-game" is present in Rockstar's distributed code, just not enabled. A modification is needed to unlock it, and a further one to disrobe the participants.

[pengu1n]

8. And this is the opposition!

War, Global warming, 9 billion missing Iraq slush fund, Torture, Election fraud,etc, etc, etc.


And you have Clinton - the next "great white hope" talking about.................Modified/PC/hacked Video game sex.

Wake up. Proof if any more needed there is no Political Opposition. Just mouthing off - on issues that do not really matter. Nothing that seriously rocks the boat. There is no voice for the citizens against the warcorp.

How about.."Clinton plans on holding the press event at 10am in Room 485 of the Russell Senate Office Building - TO TALK ABOUT IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS"!!!!!


(Sorry for being cranky - too much coffee....)

[bushisanidiot]

57. You're acting as if this is Clinton's primary issue. give me a break!

she's actively participating in many issues.. how did you miss her recent criticism of pres. nosepicker? she's signed a petition (with other dem. senators) to investigate halliburton's war profits..

gawd. is she not allowed to talk about anything you aren't interested in hearing about??

[Moochy]

105. Demagoguery

She's allowed to talk about any trivial bs she wants to..
She's allowed to lose my support because of demagoguery like this crap.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Voltaire99]

244. Some of the other issues she's "participating" in...

Outsourcing: she supports it.

Iraq war: she supports it.

Israeli occupation: she supports it.

"War on drugs": she supports it.

Reducing corporate taxes: she supports it.

Abortion: if it's "rare," she supports it.


Really, Hillary is wrong about so many critical issues that she is a towering embarrassment. With Dems like her, who needs Republicans?

[iconoclastNYC]

355. Sounds like a great ad against her in 2008 primaries!

We need a democrat who will leave the party in the right direction. Hilary is going to lead us further to the mushy middle. America wants true leadership, not triangulation.

[LivingInTheBubble]

374. and..

"she's actively participating in many issues.. " many of them quite right wing such as this example.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

9. OK, I just want to point something out...

Grand Theft Auto is a game where some of the main objectives include assasinating police officers, running drug deals, and cold-blooded murder.

And that's OK.

But NAKED PEOPLE? What were they THINKING?!?

[Joz]

12. Not only that

but the naked people/sex stuff aren't even supposed to be in the game, it's a hack that you have to download and install that some dude made for the game!! So now what, releasing game modifications should be illegal, JEEZ hil..

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. You're kidding...

Somebody buy her a clue. Or a goddamn computer.

[toopers]

81. Actually, the modifications are illegal.

They were done without licensing from the creator/or rights owner of the game. In other words, we already have a law on the books to take care of this specific situation. Secondly, we already have a rating system/law in place to take care of any legally released software. There is no need for HC to get involved here, except to make the papers.

[livinginphotographs]

167. Not true.

The hot coffee scene was originally supposed to be in the game. In fact, Rockstar released a video of it to prove that this was not just an internet legend.

Still, I agree that HC needs to stop spouting bullshit just to get attention.

[toopers]

251. While I am not an attorney . . .

the scene was not part of any public release. Therefore, if you, as an end user, re insert the code into the game you are probably violating the license associated with using the game, which typically says you will not alter the code without the consent of the company that owns the code. I do not think they are an open source type company.

[evermind]

343. "modifications illegal"? Nope. Circumventing security measures is illegal

in the US, under the DMCA, but modifying program functionality is not illegal - it happens to many games without legal consequences. Both previous GTA games have extensive modification sites providing new vehicles, different appearances for characters, new maps, etc.

In fact producers Rockstar had support for modding as one of the features of San Andreas - such support taking the form of open and easily modified file formats used to store game data.

If the file formats had been encrypted, and circumvention of that encryption was needed to perform modifications, there might have been a legal case under the DMCA against modding, but that plainly was not the case.

[Nihil]

26. Don't go bringing sense into the equation - this is politics!

> some of the main objectives include assasinating police officers,
> running drug deals, and cold-blooded murder.

Hey, these are good all-American hobbies, simple fun partaken by
thousands all over the country ... next you'll be saying that Mom's
Apple Pie is fattening ...

> in March, she joined with Senators Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Sam
> Brownback (R-KS), and Rick Santorum (R-PA) ...

From across the pond, Hillary's credibility is plummetting rapidly.
Dumb actions like this with allies like the above really don't help.
(Ok, I don't know who Brownback is but joining the other two ...?)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

29. Brownback.

I don't know him either, but I think "(R-KS)" tells me as much as I need to know. :)

[sidpleasant]

53. Has Hillary Clinton gone insane? Working with Brownback?!!

Brownback is one of the worst extreme American Taliban. He's threatened to filibuster the bill removing Shrub's restrictions on federal funding of stem cell research. His NARAL rating is 0% and the ACLU rates him at a miserable 20% on votes on civil rights issues. He has "F" ratings from the AFL-CIO and the League of Conservation Voters for support of unions and environmental issues. He's rated at 100% by the Christian Coalition and the US Chamber of Commerce. Brownback is a member of the highly secretive Catholic cult Opus Dei and he lives in a house in DC owned by an affiliate of a secret Christian organization called the Fellowship. He used anti - Semitic smears in ads against his challenger in 1996. His hypocrisy is breath - taking: "family values" Brownback took $17K in campaign contributions from the porn industry! He's clearly running for president in '98 and positioning himself as the heir - apparent to Pat Robertson.

Hillary is teaming up with this dangerous dirt bag? Is she out of her mind?

[youspeakmylanguage]

66. I guess she thinks pandering the sh*tty parent crowd will win her votes...

Someone needs to clue her in to the real demographics of the video game market - mainly people old enough to vote for her opponent or stay home on election day.

[Zhade]

219. Ah yes, the "Shitty Parent Bloc"...

To be fair to parents, they ARE overworked these days. However, this is a case of someone having to go the extra mile in order to play the mini-game (which is in an ADULT game not intended for children, people).

Clinton won't lose my support over this - she never had it in the first place - but it's pretty fucking stupid and a waste of time and taxpayer money (just like the war she should oppose is).

[sidpleasant]

135. Oops- make that "Brownback's clearly running for president in '08"

Not '98 as I wrote. So far as I know the GOP does not yet have a wayback machine to go back in time and alter the present, although I have no doubt they'd use one in a heartbeat if they could ("Liddy, I need you to go back to 1950 and kill Woodward and Bernstein). Thinking about the awful Brownback for more than a few seconds must have given me temporary vapor lock of the brain.

[MN ChimpH8R]

176. I can bearly stand it

Need any more good reasons to NOT support Hillary in '08??

[davepc]

37. Brownback is a flag bearer in the family values/moral majority world

The guy is a HARDCORE fundy. Anti-abortion, Anti-gay marrage...10 commandments everywhere, think of a social issue...think of the far "religious right" position on it. Thats Sam Brownback.

Oh yeah, he's also a corporatist of the highest order and never met a tax he couldn't cut, or a corporation he couldn't bend over backwards for.

[Nihil]

49. Wow!

Thanks for the info.

Nice running mates you're choosing these days Hillary old girl ...

[youspeakmylanguage]

72. self-edit - I'm too angry right now after reading this thread...

sorry, folks.

[Moochy]

151. Cmon CJ

You too? we should hit the lounge and steal their cars.

that would help allevieate our anger. :)

Cmon CJ!

[youspeakmylanguage]

153. Actually, I haven't played San Andreas yet...

I burned out after countless hours of Vice City and later sold my PS2.

[Sin]

161. Its really good.

They added role play aspects to to with skill up grades such as driveing ablity, for all types of cars and other forms of transport shooting ablity, and physical atributes. Its all around good and the map is as big as all previous Gta's combined, Ive been a big fan of it since gta came out on computer still have my pc gamer floppy with the demo on it.

[Moochy]

168. PC version lets you use mouse

and the pc version has superior controls, mouse and keyboard for the win!

The xbox 360 is going to have keyboard and a mouse available after launch, but Microsoft has said that they are disallowing any developer from using them for in-game controls.

[Moochy]

154. WWNGD

I wonder what would Newt say about this?

WWNGD? What would Newt Gingrich Do?

[cosmicdot]

259. yep - "a corporatist of the highest order"

you'll find his name here ...

US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce
http://www.usacc.org/contents.php?cid=2

... along side James Baker III & IV, Lloyd Bentsen, Zbigniew
Brzezinski, Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft, John Sununu, Betty Blair, Dick Cheney, Richard Armitage, Richard Perle, John Roberts et al.

Azerbaijan's number one export is oil.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/aj.html

located in the PNAC line of dominoes -- next to the Caspian Sea, bordered by Iran, Russia, and Georgia -- PNAC Mission 'almost' Accomplished

Azerbaijan - a nation with a Turkic and majority-Muslim population





The USACC also owns a four-floor historic building located in the heart of Georgetown, Washington, D.C., and hosts the Azerbaijan Gallery, the USACC offices and an apartment for USACC interns. Located on two floors, the Azerbaijan Gallery displays an exhibition of rugs, paintings and ethnic crafts from Azerbaijan.

USACC MEMBERS DIRECTORY

American International Group (John Roberts)
Eni
American-Turkish Council
ExxonMobil
Assembly of Turkish American Associations
Eurasia Foundation
Azerbaijan International
Grand Hotel Europe
AzEuroTel
Halliburton Company
Baker Botts, LLP
Hyatt Regency
Baker & McKenzie J.
Ray McDermott
Bertling Logistics
Karasu Operating Company
Boeing Company
The Livingston Group
BP Ocean Energy
Burns & Roe
Petroleum Finance Company
Caspian American Telecom (CATEL)
Prince Street Capital Management
Consolidated Contractors Company
Salans Hertzfeld & Heilbronn
ChevronTexaco
SABA
Coca-Cola
Shell EP Int'l. Venture
ConocoPhillips
Solar Turbines
Creative Associates International
Trans Global Project, Inc
Devon Energy Corporation
University of Kansas
Unocal

[progressivebydesign]

124. I'm with you on that... we have totally messed up values in America. n/t

[drhilarius]

14. This is a very important issue...

I don't know if any of you are aware, but sex and gun violence only became manifest in American society after the introduction of Grand Theft Auto 3. This, surprisingly enough, may also be around the time parents said, "fuck this 'parenting' thing. Let's just censor everything, that we we can do less work and single, childless adults can feel the burden of having children". It all works out.

[VegasWolf]

157. Yes, and there were no illegal drugs until GT3 either! I don't trust

Hillary at all. I'm voting 3rd party.

[Zhade]

319. Best. Post. Ever.

Well, not ever, but in this thread anyway!

[Joz]

19. Bad for Hillary & Democratic Party

I followed the LBN forum rules, so I didn't do it, but I really wanted to start/end the article post with "Notice the sound of the youth vote for Hillary going kerplunk". Seriously though, she keeps going after video games, and young people(17+) don't like censorship attempts at their entertainment. Not that older people do, either. This is why me and many friends of mine (that didn't know much about politics when we were 16, surprise) were so upset with Bill Clinton for censoring our Internet, hated the Gore/Lieberman ticket because Lieberman swore he would "clean up video games", Tipper was out to censor our music, and so we excitedly voted for Bush in 2000, who never talked about curbing our freedom of speech/expression by censoring. Perhaps the victory margin for Gore would have been quite a bit higher if his ticket wasn't running on the censorship tip. It's really disappointing for me after having such cool candidates that didn't talk about this censorship crap at all (Dean, Kerry), to now have Hillary be the "front runner" for the 2008 nomination, falling back to this censorship crap that does such a wonderful job of recruiting young voters for republicans.

Sorry by the way for that 2000 vote, if I only knew!! But then again, maybe Joe/Tipper should be the ones apologizing.

[paper chase guy]

79. Yes...

Stuff like this completely damages the democratic party among young kids. I can't count the number of times I've seen something like this come up, and it has a big "D" attached to its name, and I hear, "oh great, another liberal democrat at work."

(Yeah, I know, the people who do this stuff are neither liberal nor democrat.)

[Uncle Joe]

260. Tipper was never out to censor music,

she believed it should have rating system just like the movies have had for years. Parents generally because of age/cultural differences from their offspring do not listen to the same music, so how is a parent to know if their eleven year old daughter were to buy music that it would not be filled with language that the parents would deem offensive and inappropriate unless it had a rating system?

[ToeBot]

22. Lieberman threw a fit over Mortal Kombat and other games...

back in the day. It cost Gore votes in the tech community, mine included. If Clinton wants to play this game, fine. I don't need another reason not to vote for her, but every little bit helps.

[Joz]

28. Ah yes, all those days spent in the arcade playing Mortal Kombat...

..and now that I'm grown up, everytime I meet somebody, instead of shaking their hand I rip their arms out of their sockets!! I don't know why I do this.

[RandiFan1290]

27. What a waste!

I think we have bigger fish to fry. Get off it Hillary. You are gonna lose your Joementum. :eyes:

[ikri]

36. Don't blame the industry on this one

The real cause of the issue here is that the game is designed for adults. There's a rating system that means the game shouldn't be sold to minors and it won't be if it is sold by a responsible store.

The problem arises when an adult buys the game for a kid.

Stop blaming the game industry for creating mature (ok I'll admit that GTA isn't exactly what most people would call mature) computer games. Do people complain when film producers make films that aren't aimed at kids and may contain adult material?

Educate the parents and make them understand that there's a difference between a kid's computer game like super mario brothers and adult titles like GTA. If you wouldn't allow your child to watch an R rated movie then you shouldn't allow them to play an M rated computer game.

[Doremus]

40. Good god. You could take out her name and put in Chimpco

The names are interchangeable: Hillary - (insert religious pandering rightwinger name of choice)

Why do the freaking DEMS court the REPUKE vote? :nuke: :grr:

[pimpbot]

42. Hopefully they will release another hack...

This time with a character that resembles Hillary, and we can blow her brains out in the game! I wonder what she'd do then!

BTW I really like the 'ripping arms out of their sockets' post. I'm in the same camp. Playing GTA 1, Mortal Kombat, Postal, back in the day when I was 18 sure F'd me up good. Now all I think about is killing people with dirty shovels. (SARCASM)

[Warren Stupidity]

43. Nanny state Demopublican moral mommy bullshit

Stop it. Get a fucking life. Game rated M mature adult not for sale to people under the age of 17. Hack not part of game.

War oil terrorism environmental disaster fascism - any issues there Hillary? Guess not. Guess you have to go join the rest of the stupid nanny state demopublicans censoring music movies and games lest a little tits and ass show up.

[youspeakmylanguage]

62. BRAVO!!!

You are the wind beneath my wings!

[bushisanidiot]

77. Too bad they don't make a video game about AWOL Bush & his

butt buddy Gannon. What would you rate that? M for mature, T for twisted, or R for repressed repuke?

give the Fox channel time. I'm sure they'll make a television series out of GTA to feed the public's thirst for porn and cop killer action.

hey, as long as they make a buck and give the people what they want, eh?

[Moochy]

172. a video game about AWOL Bush & his butt buddy Gannon

Hey, Now we agree on something :)

I'd pay to see that lol.

The Game of Wife
Gay marriage comes to video games.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2098406/

[Moochy]

98. BRAVO, well said

Well here we get a preview of therepublicrat demopublican agenda thats going to be vital to Hillary.

Reheated BS for the scared 911 soccer moms?

[high density]

163. Thanks

I agree completely.

[KareBear]

48. She just lost my future vote.

Hillary has been taking more and more actions that seem to be pushing the envelope of what I want in a leader of this country. This one is the straw that breaks the camels back. Why on EARTH are we fretting about things like this? We have traitors in the WHITE HOUSE for gods sakes!

Being in the IT industry I've seen the effect that blatant ignorance and bureaucracy can have on it. PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT TECHNOLOGY SHOULD NOT BE IN CHARGE OF REGULATING IT! *sighs* Time to donate more to the Electronic Frontier Foundation and hope that some sanity can be brought back into the world.

So far, Dean is the only sane choice I've seen for the Democratic party. <sarcasm> but oh, right, he's UNELECTABLE </sarcasm> .

Hillary, you had potential. I really liked you a few years ago. Now your just another pawn in someone else's game. Congrats. You've lived down to my expectations of an American Politician.

[mccoyn]

50. I guess some people are just oblivious

http://www.detnews.com/2005/technology/0504/29/D06-165564.htm

Overall, the average age of a gamer is 30

In fact, nearly one-quarter of all gamers today are older than age 40.

And we have a rating system. I'm 25 and I got carded when I bought GTA3. I will agree in a heartbeat that the GTA games should not be played by kids and most teenagers, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be available, when the majority of gamers are not kids and teenagers. Its parents who buy the games for kids and allow them to play them that are a problem. If a parent were to give an R rated movie to a kid to watch would that be reason to increase censorship on R rated movies? The rating system is there to advise parents and the only reason it doesn't work is when parents ignore it.

[Moochy]

109. I'm stupider for even participating in this thread

Good point.

A sensible response would be to point out the existing ratings system and encourage "concerned parents" :eyes: to keep better tabs on what kinds of media their children are consuming.

Not to waste money on some government panel investigating this issue.
WASTE OF MONEY, waste of time, waste of bandwidth..

Hell I've been rendered stupid-er for even participating in this thread.

:)

[lizzieforkerry]

51. I think until the Rove scandal is over, no Democrat should do

Anything that will take away any focus the media is giving to it. Just sit quietly! If no new news happens they have to keep talking about Rove. Why is this so hard for them to understand? This just feeds the "family values" rhetoric machine.

[youspeakmylanguage]

75. No democrat should be pandering to the censorship zealots, no matter...

...the time or place. They can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that they'll lose more votes than they'll gain.

[ScamUSA.Com]

52. and here I thought it was a mod to scald someone with hot mcdonalds coffee

[bushisanidiot]

55. Any parent who buys "grand theft auto" for their kids deserve what they

get.

that's all i'm gonna say about it.

good for Hillary!! where are the "moral values" repukes now? where's "focus on the family"? oh yeah.. they just want gays to stay in their place.. it's the only thing on their agenda.

[StaggerLee]

67. I agree but don't forget

Bittorrents make this game available to anyone who understands the technology. So kids can easily download this stuff.

So in the end it's parenting issue, period.

I personally like the GTA series. I don't play it a lot but I do find it entertaining. It's a game for cryin' out loud.

:hi:

[paper chase guy]

76. Uhhhhhh....

Bittorrent also makes any form of porn (up to the really weird fetish stuff) also available to kids. What's your point? It'd be illegal for them to do so in either case.

edit: Oh, ok, I see your point. Sorry. :)

[Moochy]

111. Media Diet

Ok, so the solution is for parents to get their heads out of their collective arses and get involved with their childrens media diet.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

56. this is stupid

just plain idiotic.

[htuttle]

58. I cannot bring myself to vote for her

Not because I care that much about a video game (that I don't even play).

It's because with all the shit going on right now, THIS is the banner she takes up? You can't get any more irrelevent than this.

She's become a corporate toady, and I'll have no part of it.

Keep working on that Joementum, Hillary. The more useless you become, the more likely the corporate media will back you for president.

But I won't.

[evermind]

345. If she's up against Coleman, Bolton, or some other NeoCon puke..

... as a UK citizen, I humbly entreat you (nay, I beg you!) to vote for her.

Even if they ban good computer games altogether, she's still got to be better than her repukenik opponent.

By all means vote for someone else in the primaries, though! :)

[youspeakmylanguage]

59. Hillary just lost my vote and a hell of a lot of other 18-45 male votes..

I don't give a sh*t who is elected - if trashing the first amendment is part of her MO now, then she can kiss my support goodbye.

Those on this thread that would advocate restricting my rights just because you're too stupid or lazy to take responsibility for your own children can, in the immortal words of Peter Griffin, kiss the fattest part of my ass, you censoring f*cks.

[evolved Anarchopunk]

65. fuck yeah! my language, you do speak

[bushisanidiot]

74. Hey if you wait a couple years, I'm sure the Fox network will turn

the game into a t.v. series. I'm sure you'd like to watch that, huh?

[youspeakmylanguage]

78. Not really...

However, a "Battle Royale"-type show with an island full of moral zealots and incompetent, censoring parents would be great prime-time entertainment. I'd set my Tivo.

[bushisanidiot]

87. Heh, don't forget to throw in the loser 20 somethings who live in their

moms basements and play video games and jack off all day.

THAT'D BE FUNNY!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!

[youspeakmylanguage]

89. Yeah, there must be a lot of "those people" out there...

I mean, it isn't like we think it's appropriate to stereotype and belittle a group of people just because their lifestyles puts them in the margins of mainstream society, right? It also sure wouldn't be progressive of us to belittle someone's sexual habits, either. But hey, let's stereotype a group of people because they play video games as freeloading, sexually-deviant pigs. Nice.

:eyes:

[Moochy]

95. Onward Christian Soldiers!!

Hey the prude squad has spoken, fall into line soldier.

Onward secular humanist and christian soldiers!!
marching against sex in video games..
We will fight the pixelated naughty bits!!

Our Children, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!?!?!?!

Who will fight our wars, in IRAQ and IRAN ?

These kids must be well-adjusted if they are going to die for our foreign wars of agressions.

grr.

[bushisanidiot]

99. Screaming like banshees over "censorship" doesn't help their

cause. the freeptards who play these games don't vote anyway, so who really gives a fuck? eh? bah..

she's bringing attention to an issue that a lot of people were previously unaware of. how many here knew that porn could be downloaded for use with GTA before this news article came out today? how many? oh, yeah.. just the few who were already downloading it. guess they got caught with their pants down..

pun INTENDED.

it's not like hillary is running into our bedrooms trying to keep adults from comitting consentual sex acts.. that's the republican's job.

even though freepers and the FOX channel think otherwise, kids and porn don't go together.

[Moochy]

100. Yeah you only have to worry about this if you are a pervert

...and more explicit REAL porn, cant be downloaded?

GIVE ME A BREAK!

How about "Singles: sex up your life" google that title.
A kid could download that just as well?

Nannystate - by the Prude Squad

[bushisanidiot]

106. heh..

funny.

too bad hillary is required to ok kids downloading porn in order to get your vote.

it's sad.

[youspeakmylanguage]

112. Such a completely fallacious and ridiculous statement...

...leads me to believe you aren't interested in serious discussion.

[Moochy]

115. prude squad

And Hillary must so closely adopt the agenda of the brain-dead knee-jerk reactionary pro-censorship right to garner your sorry vote?

and you know what? If a kid downloads porn, the parent should bear some responsiblity? nah lets just make all porn illegal.

No, I beleive you are making a sad and lousy argument.

I think theres some porn being downloaded somewhere you can stop.

[bushisanidiot]

119. Hey, as long as it doesn't affect you it's not a problem, eh?

guess i'm a little biased because i have two kids. i am no prude and i don't appreciate the name calling.

i am fully aware of the video games and movies my kids see.. believe me, it's not all G rated stuff as you would like to believe. however, i know there are parents out there who work two jobs and aren't able to keep an eye on what their kids do.. these are the parents that the repukes call "lazy" because they're supposedly letting their kids do whatever they want.

then there are the parents who have no moral values whatsoever and do let their kids do whatever the hell they want.. they will buy their kids whatever video game they ask for..

these two types of parents have kids who need protection that their parents aren't providing them. those are the kids I care about. what's so wrong with wanting some goddamn regulation when it comes to video games and porn? "anything goes" is fine for adults.. i'm no prude, but be real.. the main audience we're talking about when it comes to video games is kids.

calling me a prude or "nanny" because i care about kids is a bit of a stretch.

[youspeakmylanguage]

129. Wrong again...

the main audience we're talking about when it comes to video games is kids.

WRONG!

[bushisanidiot]

143. ok, statistically there are more adults in the population than there

are children (children able to play video games ages 4yr. - 21yr. VS. adults able to play video games 21yr. - 99yrs), but the vast majority of CHILDREN play video games. whereas, the vast majority of ADULTS do not.

Clinton is saying don't sell R rated or X rated games. She's saying, don't let the kids get to X rated video games so easily. Right now, kids can figure out how to get the porn into their GTA games. What's so wrong with trying to make it more difficult for them to do this? The GTA manufacturers profits go up if the porn is easily downloadable, they don't give a shit about who's doing the downloaded.. and they SHOULD!

[youspeakmylanguage]

145. Because of Clinton and folks like you, Rockstar's profits are going...

...to SOAR! Just like the record sales of 2 Live Crew, NWA, Body Count, Doom, etc...

We won't even be able to measure how many more people, including unsupervised kids, will now download this mod since it's gotten so much publicity.

You don't own stock in these companies, do you?

Oh, and see my other post before you claim again, falsely, that the VAST MAJORITY!!! of video game players are kids.

[bushisanidiot]

158. I suppose we should just do away with all rating systems too

god forbid anyone would dream of complaining when porn finds its way into a popular video game.

by the way.. 9 in 10 kids play video games. 2 in 10 adults play video games. yes, more adults do play video games simply because adults outnumber children in the population. so just incase you think you are in the majority because you think most adults play video games.. uh.. you're wrong.

[youspeakmylanguage]

166. No, again, you're wrong...

You could claim that 9 out of 10 kids go to the movies, or that 9 out of 10 kids read books. Does that mean that all movies should be geared towards kids? What about all books?

More fallacy and strawmen. Try again.

[bushisanidiot]

177. As long as you're comparing movies and books to video games

i'll ask this..

why isn't playboy displayed next to the comic books in the convenience store? don't you think they try to make the playboys and penthouse magazines a little harder to get to for a reason, or how about cigarettes? that's the same type of concept i'm talking about. don't stop selling it altogether, just don't make it so damn easily accessible to children.

again, it's not rocket science.

[paper chase guy]

187. It's not easily accessible.

Retail shops will not sell any game with a M (for "Mature") rating to minors. This is similar to a movie shop not selling Rated R movies to someone under 17.

The only way a child can get his hands on the game is either through illegal means (which means you should monitor your child's internet usage to make sure they're not doing anything illegal), or if the parent buys the game for the child (in which case the parent has decided they feel the child can handle a rated "M" game.)

[bushisanidiot]

193. I'm fully aware of the restrictions in the stores. Most kids don't buy

video games because their parents are the ones with the money. the problem is when the kids get their hands on the game (however they are able to do it) and download the porn for the game with no restricitons whatsoever. What's so wrong imposing some restrictive downloading hoops for the kids to jump through before allowing them to get the porn? aren't adult players of GTA willing to jump through a few hoops to help protect the kids??

[paper chase guy]

196. I don't even get your point.

If you're worried about kids getting their hands on things on pornography, why not worry about them getting their hands on actual hardcore pornography, and not something that can have pornography injected into it by a separate hack?

Again, this is a hack. An unauthorized modification. Similarly, when the game Tomb Raider came out, people made nude graphics hacks for the game's protagonist. There's not a whole lot a publisher can do to prevent a user who wishes to add pornographic content to a game.

Edit: Another example: The Sims line of games blurs out nudity in the game, but user-created patches easily remove this. Since the game data is directly modified by the user patches, there's not a whole lot a game creator can do, except perhaps obfuscate the data, which any game pirate will tell you is a waste of time. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[bushisanidiot]

206. Just because there isn't a way to prevent the patches from being

being applied to the games, doesn't mean that it can't be researched until a security solution is found.

[paper chase guy]

220. It's nearly impossible.

Game modding is parallel to game cracks that allow users to pirate games. The software industry has been trying for years to prevent piracy by implementing security solutions that prevent copied versions of the game from being run. However, in almost every situation, the game will be successfully cracked and successfully pirated. Even the relatively successful game protections such as Starforce often cause huge problems that prevent people with legit copies from playing the game they paid for.

The main difference is, game modding is usually seen as beneficial because it adds extra content to the game for free in a benign manner. So when it happens, publishers usually don't mind.

[Emerson]

231. You obviously have no clue

how writing code for games works.

First of all what you're asking for would not be classified as a "security" solution.

Second of all it would require a fundamental change in writing code. So much so that it's not even practical to consider.

You'd even have to eliminate DirectX and OpenGL from the equation as ANY unified code base or public API is susceptible to reverse engineering. That step alone would throw software development as far as games are concerned back 20 years.

Almost all games use DirectX/OpenGL (used to use glide but that died) and use a common language like C++, C#, etc. No, developers don't create an entirely new language and API for every game they create. They also re-use engines and license those used by other devs. The software written is easy to modify due to this code unification and vast public knowledge of it.

What you ask would LITERALLY require reinventing computer software development as we know it. It's laughable and anyone who's ever so much as written "Hello world" should dismiss the suggestion at once.

[youspeakmylanguage]

248. It's pretty obvious to everyone except her (n/t)

[Joz]

266. Uh, haven't you ever been to 7-11? n/t

[Moochy]

257. Majority rules

pointless.. Statistics don't drive my opposition to your boostering of this pointless issue. 2 in 10? oh man i better stop playing games.

fucking ay.

Why do I bother to keep posting on this? Because you are wrong, and I guess I think its important for everyone to see how far you are willing to go to impose your morals on others.

Please explain how your enforcement scheme will work.

Your posts betray a very willfully ignorant attitude, with no concept of what the law or the technology involved.. just knee jerk feel good politics.. its about the kids.

[Zhade]

325. "Clinton is saying don't sell R rated or X rated games."

Yeah, and that's censorship.

Fuck Clinton, on this and many other things.

[LivingInTheBubble]

375. It isnt easy

"kids can figure out how to get the porn into their GTA games" if this is true (which i'm sure it is) they can also download nastier porn than you can even imagine from the same place, the internet. The only solution is parents take responsibility is for what their (17 year old!) children do.
"The GTA manufacturers profits go up if the porn is easily downloadable" GTA is one of the most successfull games around believe me they never had this as a business plan, the stealing and murder was quite enough.

[Moochy]

133. Your responsiblity, your kids

then there are the parents who have no moral values whatsoever and do let their kids do whatever the hell they want.. they will buy their kids whatever video game they ask for..

...and why the hell does their failure as parents affect my rights?
The ratings system is there. Parents fail to use it? Sounds like a problem for the parents.

these two types of parents have kids who need protection that their parents aren't providing them. those are the kids I care about. what's so wrong with wanting some goddamn regulation when it comes to video games and porn? "anything goes" is fine for adults.. i'm no prude, but be real.. the main audience we're talking about when it comes to video games is kids.

There is regulation. It's there. there is a ratings system.
My copy of GTA: san andreas says M17+. Mature audiences. ESRB.

Being against more regulation and a congressional study to find the evil in GTA and video games, is NOT tantamount to being against regulation for porn and violent video games in general.

calling me a prude or "nanny" because i care about kids is a bit of a stretch.

And saying that Hilary has to be for allowing kids to downloading porn to get my vote wasnt a stretch? Pot meet kettle?

Heres a deal, you don't impugn my morality, and I won't call you a prudish pro-censorship democrat?

[bushisanidiot]

150. Preventing kids from EASILY downloading porn should all of our

concern. NO ONE, including Senator Clinton is saying adults can't do it. So don't go throwing the censorship card around so frivilously.

if you want to download porn for your video game.. fine. but you should have to jump through a few hoops to get it downloaded as a safety precaution to the kids.

sounds like you aren't willing to do that.

[youspeakmylanguage]

156. Please explain to me...

...how Rockstar, Senator Clinton, or anyone else is going to prevent or safeguard the distribution of an UNAUTHORIZED, homemade mod created by a guy in Europe and now being distributed by thousands of sources around the world?

[bushisanidiot]

162. guess we shouldn't even try.

let the kids play whatever games they want and download whatever they want because there's no way to oversee any of it. that's the easiest (and most profitable) thing to do.

[youspeakmylanguage]

173. The profitable thing to do...

...is to publicize crap like this until all of the kids are trampling each other running to their computers to download it.

[bushisanidiot]

179. ah, so they weren't going to download porn until Hillary brought it

up. heh.. that's funny.

[youspeakmylanguage]

227. You tell me. Were you aware of it before Hillary...

...brought it to your attention?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, that fringe programs like making cartoon video game characters simulate sexual acts aren't exactly on the AOL Homepage? How do you think the word gets out?

[bushisanidiot]

232. So we should just stop talking about it and pretend that it isn't

happening then it will go away on it's own.. cuz as we all know, kids don't share cheat or patch secrets with eachother.. the only way for them to find out about it is when a senator speaks out about it.. cuz (laugh) kids watch the news. BWAHAHAHAHAHA@!@

[youspeakmylanguage]

234. You're getting desperate now...

...and this is getting less and less interesting with each post.

cuz as we all know, kids don't share cheat or patch secrets with eachother

Apparently you didn't know it, because you claimed on numerous posts that we needed to somehow "place some extra steps in the download process". If these "cheat or patch secrets" (an oxymoron, since patches are distributed officially by the game companies and made very public) are so secret, then how are we supposed to "place some extra steps in the download process" to keep them out of the hands of the poor widdle kiddies?

At least try to be consistent. Or better yet, just admit you have no idea what you're talking about and move on.

[bushisanidiot]

237. Newsflash: parents are often the last to know about this stuff.

i know it's convenient for you to think of parents of these children as being "lazy", but there's simply no way to monitor your kids activities 24/7. no fucking way. and i shouldn't HAVE to. all that's being asked of is that the porn not be so GOD DAMNED EASILY ACCESSIBLE. is that so hard to understand??

[youspeakmylanguage]

240. My last word on the subject...

You "shouldn't HAVE to" monitor your kid's activities "24/7" if you trust that you have instilled the right values in him. 15 is three years away from 18 - then he is responsible for himself.

If you haven't instilled the right values, or at least gotten through to the kid the difference between legal and illegal, then no amount of government oversight or regulation of the internet, videogames, or anything else is going to stop them from finding whatever material they want to find and then doing whatever it is irresponsible kids will do with that material.

Either way, what the kid does is your responsibility. Not mine, not Rockstar's, not Senator Clinton's, and certainly not the Internet community as a whole. It doesn't take a village to "protect" your kid from magazines, pictures, videogames, whatever. It just takes you.

Now, run along and debate with someone else.

[bushisanidiot]

242. I'm glad my kid can't buy a gun, buy cigarettes, buy alcohol, etc.

does that mean i think he would do it if the law allowed him to? i don't know.. he might, the temptation would be there if all the other kids were doing it.

these regulations are in place for a reason. it's a straw man argument to scream "censorship" when what we're talking about is kids downloading EASILY ACCESSIBLE porn. no one is trying to keep YOU from downloading the porn.. it's the kids we're concerned about. make them at least jump through a few hoops first. i'm sure there's some type of software someone could invent to solve this type of problem.. and she will make a million dollars when it hits the market.

[youspeakmylanguage]

245. There has been software like that for years...

It's called CyberSitter. It's right up your alley. Look it up.

Of course, I don't think Senator Clinton has held a press conference touting it, so you've probably never heard of it...

[bushisanidiot]

250. If CyberSitter solves the problem Senator Clinton is referring to

then you've made my day. thank you.

[youspeakmylanguage]

254. Sure...

It will definitely block porn. It may also block this site, GLAAD's site, the ACLU, and even sites dealing with breast cancer. Whoops, I said a dirty word - BREAST!

But hey, censorship is a bitch of a double-edged sword.

[bushisanidiot]

316. censorship, censorship, censorship.. wah wah wah

nice straw man... heh..

nobody said breast was a bad word. infact, it's very GOOD word. ;)

the repressed freeptards are the ones all up in arms when a woman DARES to breastfeed her child in public. all i'm talking about is kids downloading porn to "enhance" their video games.

but i guess that's the exact same thing, isn't it?

[Zhade]

328. Uh, blocking sites for having words like "breast" IS censorship.

I know, it's all the rage to blow off things like censorship these days, but you should at least be aware that the other poster was factually correct in calling it censorship.

Main Entry: censor
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): cen·sored; cen·sor·ing /'sen(t)-s&-ri, 'sen(t)s-ri/
: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable

Just a handy tip.

[bushisanidiot]

335. Nobody's talking about blocking a site because of the word

"breast".

what we're talking about is whether we can find a way to prevent kids from downloading porn to use in their video games.

NOT the same thing.

[Zhade]

327. It's not "easily accessible".

It takes effort and intention - kids can't stumble onto this unknowingly. It's physically impossible - the code doesn't connect to allow it to do so.

[LivingInTheBubble]

376. how easily accessible is it?

you have said numerous times how easy it is, please will you inform us of the procedure? I bet you have no idea what you are talking about though and are simply repeating what you have heard like our dear right wing friend Hilary.

[Joz]

267. My god, I am constantly slapping my forehead at your posts..

Kids watch the news, bwahahahahahahah. Yeah sure, did you HAPPEN to notice that the article of this story comes from GAMESPOT, thats the news source, a video game news website, that I'm sure no kids read either.

By the way for some reason I thought DU prevented annoyingly large signatures with big pictures in them, but I guess I was wrong. Anyway, thanks for making me constantly look at bush, love it.

[mccoyn]

215. Perhaps the parents could oversee it?

They seem to be the biggest stake holders.

[Moochy]

164. Oh now I'm throwing cards around?

Sigh I'm not the enemy but you have already told me to go to Free republic, and that the president bush should be my choice.

Sounds like im tired of this non-argument.

Read about the mod, understand it's illegal. against the eula agreement from rockstar. Rockstar can't change how people modify the game after its released on a PC. They can benefit from the hype and marketing surrounding this thing.

Should a site like gamespot.com or fileplanet.com that offers the modification file to users be responsible for what USERS do with the downloaded files ? Should they be subject to the pornorgraphy laws and the rules about age limits and age verification for models? Clearly no, there are no models involved in these video games.

Remember 'Hot Coffee' is a contact-violating third-party modification that one must seek out,online, an after market add on.

This is no different than the Sims nude patches etc.
Just educate yourself about the issues instead of reacting like a knee-jerk sheeple.

[bspence]

139. Didn't you just say that they condone porn for kids?

Isn't that name calling?

By the way, if the parents have two jobs and can't look after the kids, the kids most likely won't have the $50 to go out and buy the game.

"...but be real.. the main audience we're talking about when it comes to video games is kids."

Both the PlayStation and X-Box are not primarily marketed to kids.

How about you read this:

The Entertainment Software Association provides a wealth of data,
statistics and information regarding the Video Game Market.

“The U.S. computer and video game software sales grew four percent in
2004 to $7.3 billion -- a more than doubling of industry software
sales since 1996.”

“Seventy-five percent of American heads of households play computer
and video games.”

“In 2004, more than 248 million computer and video games were sold,
almost two games for every household in America”

“The average game player is 30 years old and has been playing games for 9.5 years”

“The average game buyer is 37 years old. In 2005, 95 percent of
computer game buyers and 84 percent of console game buyers were over
the age of 18.”

“Eighty-three percent of all games sold in 2004 were rated "E" for
Everyone or "T" for Teen.”

“Eighty-seven percent of game players under the age of 18 report that
they get their parents’ permission when renting or buying games, and
92 percent say their parents are present when they buy games.”

“Forty-three percent of all game players are women. In fact, women
over the age of 18 represent a greater portion of the game-playing
population (28 percent) than boys from ages 6 to 17 (21 percent).”

“In 2004, 19 percent of Americans over the age of 50 played video
games, an increase from nine percent in 1999.”

“Forty-two percent of game players say they play games online one or
more hours per week. In addition, 34 percent of heads of households
play games on a wireless device, such as a cell phone or PDA, up from
20 percent in 2002.”

Source: Entertainment Software Association
http://www.theesa.com/facts/top_10_facts.php

[bushisanidiot]

147. Whatever. ALL of my kids' friends play video games. I know very

few adults who do.. but I do know they play them. I was a huge arcade geek back in the 80's and just found a classic Defender game for my kids' X-Box. I've got the all-time high score right now, so yeah, I'm a gamer too.

Clinton isn't trying to take away your GTA game or keep you from being able to download porn to it. She just doesn't want your kids to have such easy access to those downloads. Just add a few extra steps in the download process.. something to make sure it's actually ADULTS who are downloading the porn. Why does that make her a nanny or a prude?

[bspence]

204. You clearly don't understand the issue

Rockstar Games (publisher of Grand Theft Auto) is not making this download available to anyone, kids or adults. I have the game, but no interest in downloading this HACK to the game, which is what it really is. Someone hacked the code to alter the game so you can have sex with your girlfriend. In fact, the person who came up with this hack lives in the Netherlands, and Rockstar Games feels that he broke the law.

[bushisanidiot]

216. And you don't think the porn hack helps at all to boost GTA's sales?

heh..

[bspence]

344. If it helps sales, they'd have put it in there to begin with

God Of War has sex and nudity, and it's not getting hammered like this.

Putting an AO sticker on it will kill it. It won't be in stores, so it'll be doomed. This is censorship, make no mistake. Hillary's goal is to get GTA out of everyone's homes, including mine. That's not America, nor is it what I thought Democrats stood for.

If they wanted nudity in the game, why don't the X-Box and PS2 systems have this feature?

[mccoyn]

225. And lets look at the hoops that are already in the way.

First the kid has to get the game. The kid needs the money. Then he or she needs to find a store that will sell it to a minor or an adult to buy it. At this point the kid needs to install the game on a computer. That will require administrative access to the computer. Now the kid will need to learn about the game somehow. That probally means reading forums that discuss such things. Finally the kid needs to find a site to download the hack from. A little understanding of the installation instructions isn't hard to do. Finally the kid can actually play the modified game.

This leads to several questions about parental responsibility.
1. How did the kid get the game? Did the parent approve of it then?
2. How did the kid install the game? Did the parent give the kid complete, unmonitored access to a computer?
3. How did the kid find out about the mod and download it? Did the parent give the kid complete, unmonitored access to the internet?
4. How did the kid actually play the mod? Did the parent give the kid complete, unmonitored time to use a computer?

There are plenty of hoops and opportunities for a parent who cares, just a little bit, to intervene.

[Zhade]

321. There already IS regulation.

Going past the already-established regulations means getting into censorship, like it or not.

We don't have a sure-fire way to prevent kids from seeing violent movies or R-rated films - should we thus further regulate those?

I can sympathize with the overworked parents thing. Maybe that's where you should focus your ire: on a wage-slave society and those who force wage slavery on all of us, rather than on games kids aren't supposed to be playing anyway.

The world will never, ever, ever be 100% safe and padded to protect kids from things that they shouldn't see. If it were, it would be so controlled and so regulated that no one would want to live in it - and rules would STILL be broken. It's human nature.

Can you change human nature? If so, may I suggest paying more attention to the causes (say, corporatism and outsourcing - which btw Clinton APPROVES) and less to the symptoms?

[Emerson]

178. Porn will not permanently damage kids

(depending on what kind of "porn" you are talking about) You make it sound like a kid that sees someone having sex is destroyed for life.

I find it interesting americans think a kid seeing two adults having sex is the worst thing that can happen, but they don't mind their kids watching people get shot to hell on TV at all. (which IMO is FAR more dangerous and is not a common and nice thing like sex) They also don't mind starting BS wars so their kids can go to war - which is also FAR more damaging than seeing two people having sex.

In damn near all of europe sex is aired on tv. (and I mean sex - not the soft stuff that airs here) Kids watch it all the time on tv, yet the majority of european kids grow up fine.

[youspeakmylanguage]

110. You're wrong on all counts...

1) This is a MATURE game. It was produced and advertised for ADULTS. Kids have NO BUSINESS playing this game. If they are, then they're parents AREN'T PARENTING.

2) The VAST MAJORITY (87%) of video game players are ADULTS. A significant portion of them are FEMALE. Sorry, I don't have any statistics on how many of them vote, but calling all of them "freeptards" demonstrates nothing but your own ignorance.

3) As far as "porn could be downloaded for use with GTA", your point is so irrelevant it's ridiculous. If a kid can figure out how to download and install this MODIFICATION to the GTA game, that kid is knowledgeable enough to download anything he or she wants, including graphic, hardcore porn involving REAL LIVE PEOPLE and not animated, blocky video game people.

4) And to top it all off, where have you read that FOX or even freepers think kids and porn "go together"? There is PLENTY of stuff to attack both of those groups with without resorting to ridiculous assertions that you know you can't back up with any sort of reasonable facts.

Your post is so ridiculous, overall, that it's really pointless to continue any sort of reasonable discussion with you. Let me know if you want to continue throwing out insults, though.

[bushisanidiot]

132. 87% of video game players are adults? uh.. no. the webpage you

refer to for that statistic (which I question) claims that 87% of console video games are PURCHASED by adults. it's a HUGE leap to assume the adult purchasing the console game is actually going to play it him or herself. It is most likely that the console game was bought for a CHILD. my gawd.. this isn't rocket science.

yes, a lot of adults play video games. by the VAST MAJORITY are children.

[youspeakmylanguage]

140. Survey says? BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

...the VAST MAJORITY are children

Really?

Of the frequent users who play computer games, 28 percent are under eighteen years old, 30 percent are between 18 and 35 years old and 42 percent are over 35 years old. Of the frequent users who play on video game consoles, 42 percent are under eighteen years old, 37 percent are between 18 and 35 years old and 21 percent are over 35 years old.

http://www.games-advertising.com/assets/Piracy99.htm

[Moochy]

142. Intuition trumps Statistics

...knows in her gut that us evil pedestrian killing pornography loving video game freaks just want to make society lawless, so that kids can download pr0n.

REPENT YE

[Emerson]

175. How old are you?

"the freeptards who play these games don't vote anyway"

What BS is this? Damn near every 18-20 something owns a video game console and plays these types of games. I work retail, and this is one of our biggest (if not the biggest) customer groups for video game sales. Although young people vote less a good amount of them DO vote.

If you are over 50 I can understand that you don't relate. But today most young people of voting age buy these things like hot cakes.

Therefore you are essentially jeopardizing the youth vote (which generally goes democratic) with this.

[IA_Seth]

198. Wow

"the freeptards who play these games don't vote anyway, so who really gives a fuck? eh? bah.."

Way to court those younger voters. Hillary's involvement in stifling young adult's expression (however valid or invalid you may find that expression) is certainly not going to win over any of the 18-30 year olds that I know.

This is as bad as Tipper Gore going after rap lyrics. Since when did the Dems get hijacked into being censors?

[Occulus]

202. Do you even KNOW what is being used to get this content?

It's a hack. It's a downloadable hack which unlocks otherwise locked content that isn't even referred to ingame.

It's a MOD. Do you know what a MOD is? It means "modification". As in, a change to the game. A change which unlocks otherwise locked content.

My guess is, if you want to do this on the PS2, you need a mod chip. I could be wrong on that particular point; in the end, if your child has a PS2 connected to the internet, this content can be obtained, but only if you have a network card. If you want to use a disc of some sort to load the patch, for the PS2, you need a mod chip to do so, as well as a working boot disc.

As for the PC, if it's content that can be unlocked with a simple patch, it is still content that needs a patch to access, much like the nudity mods for The Sims. It's still user-created, be it a code to unlock otherwise locked content, or a user-created skin or model.

We're still, regardless, speaking of otherwise locked or unavailable content. She's going to end up going after user mods in general, and that will be that for the gaming industry as a whole.

(First-person shooters, in particular, have thrived specifically as a result of id software's practice of allowing user content, which stems from their original "Doom"- which spawned a huge outcry in its day as well.)

[Zhade]

331. Unfortunately, it turns out you may be wrong on the mod chip.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200507/N05.0713.1608.42362.htm

In their first official statement in response to the Hot Coffee sex mod, Rockstar blames hackers for the X-rated scenes in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

"So far we have learned that the "hot coffee" modification is the work of a determined group of hackers who have gone to significant trouble to alter scenes in the official version of the game. In violation of the software user agreement, hackers created the 'hot coffee' modification by disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code," Rockstar said.

"Since the 'hot coffee' scenes cannot be created without intentional and significant technical modifications and reverse engineering of the game's source code, we are currently investigating ways that we can increase the security protection of the source code and prevent the game from being altered by the 'hot coffee' modification."

Until now, Hot Coffee was believed to be confined to the PC version of the game. But several websites are now claiming that gamers can use Action Replay Max codes to unlock the scenes on PlayStation 2. If this is true, Rockstar may have a harder time convincing the ESRB's investigators of their outside hacker theory.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bspence]

141. You're a hypocrite

You complain about people calling you a prude and you resort to this.

I'm 30 years old, I have a great job making $75K a year, I have a beautiful girlfriend, my own condo, another house that I rent out, I travel the world twice a year. And I played GTA: San Andreas last night for three hours. How do I fit your description?

[Moochy]

144. indeed

:sarcasm:
but but...but you don't fit my perception of what a good person is, and so therefore i'm going to pooh pooh your choices. you obviously have an anti-kid agenda...

so sad, I'm just trying to protect the childrens!! :cry:

:sarcasm:

[bushisanidiot]

146. Hey, I've got no problem with it.

if you wanted to download porn into your GTA game dont' you think it would be worth it to put some extra steps in the download process for security reasons.. so kids couldn't get to that kind of stuff too?

Clinton isn't trying to remove your GTA game.

[youspeakmylanguage]

148. "some extra steps in the download process"?!?!?!?

Please, please tell me you're being sarcastic at this point.

Have you even studied the details of this? Do you know what an unauthorized mod is? Or how they are distributed? As in freely, across "The Internet"?

:rofl:

[bushisanidiot]

159. so you're saying it's pretty easy to download, huh?

is that really your point?

[youspeakmylanguage]

160. I don't own the game, actually, but having been part...

...of the Internet community for almost 10 years, and part of local BBS boards before that, I have a pretty good understanding of how unauthorized modifications to video games work.

But hey, you're the expert here, right?
:rofl:

[bushisanidiot]

165. I'm no expert. What scares me is that my 15 year old son knows

more about computers than I do and I've been using them since the 80's. Kids today pick this stupid up "super duper" fast.. if there aren't any safe guards to protect them from downloading porn into their video games, then we've failed them as a society.

btw, no one is trying to keep grown up gamers from playing whatever games they want to play or downloading whatever they want to download. this is about kids and their apparent "easily accessible" porn downloads.

[youspeakmylanguage]

171. The government is not responsible for your 15 year old son...

...nor is Rockstar games. YOU are responsible for what your son does online - no one else.

If your son is as knowledgeable and experienced as you claim, then no amount of government-imposed "safeguards" are going to prevent him from downloading material he shouldn't be downloading - not unless that material is removed completely.

What makes porn downloads "easily accessible" to kids is unsupervised Internet usage. Who is responsible for that?

I didn't choose to have children. You did. So take responsibility or, heaven forbid, actually trust that you've raised your kid properly and he can make correct and legal decisions for himself.

[bushisanidiot]

184. wow. it's just a black and white issue, isn't it? no room for making

exceptions or providing safeguards.

[paper chase guy]

191. Let me reiterate...

That this is an unauthorized modification. Yes, the content exists in the unused nether region of the game's data, but it requires an unauthorized third party hack to enable it.

From an end-user point of view, it is no harder or easier to install a third party hack that injects pornography into a spongebob squarepants game.

You can't hold the publisher responsible for the modifications end-users make to the game.

[bspence]

205. Exactly, it's completely black and white

It's by far, MUCH easier for your kid to download REAL PORN than it is to download and install this mod. Why don't you go after that?

[Moochy]

186. Net Nanny ( firewall your kid )

Unsupervised Internet useage for the win Alex!

Devils advocate time:

A Law is passed that makes it illegal for minors to download the hot coffee mod.

The hot coffee mod disappears from major US servers due to the liability to the service providers.

Somehow the law fails to eliminate the files outside of the US. Imagine that.

So, what you are advocating is that the fileplanets and the 3dgamers.coms of the world, the sites that cater to gamers files, making demos and game files available are going to have some liability as to the content of the files that modify existing games, or have lewd content? Not sure how that law could be written and doesnt this get into the slippery slope of community standards for offensive material? who decides what is offensive?

[paper chase guy]

181. That's what everyone has been trying to tell you...

That safeguard is parenting.

The free flow of information is a central aspect of the internet, and to completely prevent a knowledgeable person (such as your children who know more than you about computers) from accessing pornography would require restricting that flow to such a degree as to damage it. Thus, any restriction should be at the end of the pipe and be up to the individual who desires it.

If you are worried about kids doing things you don't want behind your back on the computer, then deny them access to the computer when you are away or not watching. Don't ask the government to do that for you, as it gives them a great deal of power they will surely abuse.

[Sin]

182. Lets say it would be

counter productive to download porn into his video game ( it would take longer) rather then just go out and find the real stuff.

person with average computer skill could get a mod like this running in 10 min or so thats just for a general number. finding real porn on the net that isn't fake video game players will take about 30 sec.
and if you got broad band 10 sec.

so if your uber concerned about porn on video games there a point in the game were you have to dress in a gimp suit and get a big Dildo that you carry in your hand,( you can actually use it as a weapon to beat people with) to help get girl friend you so you can get her security card for a Casino. Thats all ready in the game with no mod.

[Joz]

272. Argued against your own point..

You want extra hoops for people to jump through in order to get this porn mod.. yet you just argued that kids know way more about computers than most parents, which is true... so how is adding these extra hoops to jump through to get the modification going to stop these kids from getting it. These kids are the ones who their parents ask for tech help when using a computer.

[Emerson]

188. Gross ignorance

thank you for recognizing and calling the poster on it youspeak.

The poster is likely very old and does not relate to youth today. It's very very different than he seems to believe. A very naive attitude.

[Name removed]

238. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StaggerLee]

70. A mod I'd like to see for GTA

Something with models of

Sean Hannity
Rush Limbaugh
Ann Coulter

All all the other usual suspects.

That way you can rampage through the game puttin' some serious hurt on these fascists without really hurting anyone.

That would be sweet.

[youspeakmylanguage]

71. Something like that would be much easier to do with the old Doom games...

Perhaps a DUer with a lot of time on his hands could come up with something like that?

The sprites would have to be cartoonish, though. We don't need anyone thinking we're advocating real-life violence.

[paper chase guy]

73. Hillary, no, no, no, just... no.

This was a feature that was axed and so is only available by deliberately modifying the game. Also, the feature is only easily "unlocked" in the PC version, which accounts for a fraction of the sales. The Playstation 2 and Xbox versions account for the lion's share. I understand it is also possible with the Playstation 2 version, but for this, an Action Replay is needed. (An extra piece of hardware.)

The feature was obviously axed early on because it's extremely rough. The main character is even wearing all his clothes through it! What's more, is that the ESRB rated the game as "Mature", and retail chains will already not sell it to anyone under 18. The PS2 game God of War has a sex minigame, and features characters with naked breasts, and it is rated M as well. (Although the camera does pan away during the minigame, it's pretty obvious what's going on.)

I think the M rating is reasonable given that this is how the game ships. When Doom came out over ten years ago, it wasn't very long before people modified that to have pornographic content, as well.

This is not something we need as a distraction right now. Thanks, Hilary.

[Sin]

82. Yep shes nuts.

basically it was non used content basically like stuff that hit the cutting room floor for movies they just left it in there for hunters of such easter eggs to find.

on the issue at hand she just shot her self in the foot really shes flushing her votes down the drain at this point. all most ever were I buy video games they always card younger people for games and inform the parents of whats on them if they don't know.

another thing is this is only found though program that unlocks it on the pc version not the console. I'm betting most of the young ins that have the game have it on console because it came out for it there first hell I even have it for console and would not spend more money on it for pc again just for that.

Hillary and her DLC asses with trunks can go take a long walk off a short peer as far as I'm concerned. wonder what she is going to mouth off at the press conference I'm guessing its about how Satan hand crafts these games in his evil work shop has demons hand deliver them to kids just running out of sunday school.

Bet she wont get up and condemn say Medal of Honor and how you gun down hundreds of Germans. Then again what do I know I'm just a demented video game player they have effected my mind since I was young, you know no one is safe around me. so lock up your daughters I'm coming for them. (give me a F***ing break)

[bspence]

83. Hillary Needs to Read This: (an explanation)

The unlocked content that GTA: San Andreas isn't really something you unlock. You have to go to a website, download a program, and it adds the content to it. Someone in the Netherlands came up with this "hot coffee" thing. It's not Rockstar games' fault.

Even the Sims has mods you can make that will show your characters naked when they shower, or whatever.

If I took a picture of Hillary, and posted her head on a naked body, it's much the same thing. I wouldn't go after Hillary because there are 'naked' pictures of her floating around, right?

This is why I don't like Hillary. She doesn't understand an issue, and she just comes forth and acts like she knows all the answers. The only thing she knows is that coming out against video games is an issue that polls well.

I actually hate her. I don't know how Bill has put up with her. He seems so genuine and she seems so fake.

[bspence]

108. The IRONIC thing is...

I play GTA and I wouldn't have ever heard of this mod if it weren't for the hysterical Democrats (SHEEZ!) that have come out against it.

I believe some guy from California was the first to go ballistic.

By speaking out against it, they're actually getting more kids to buy it.

[architect359]

84. It's not about the sale of the game

Nor should it be about the game's authors. The game is labelled and sale is prohibited (as much as possible). The problem is the relative ease in getting the mod. Children will get a hold of the game if they want to through clueless (careless) parents or from older siblings or whatever.

Yes, parents should pay more attention to their kids so that this issue isn't as prevelent. But the person that released the mod should also bear some responsibility in at least understanding the consequences of this action. The internet isn't some arcane obscure territory anymore - it's a free for all where all comers are welcome - and the means to getting online is getting easier by the day. We can't be cavelier about what we put on the internet anymore.

The internet's environment is what it is. All ideas and actions are possible. Because of this nature and its freedoms, we should be very careful to not abuse it or be careless with it. Freedom doesn't mean freedom from personal responsibility or not caring what our actions might do. In a sense the internet today is a brand new world and we best protect it because we all know that there are people that want to control it for their own gain and redefine it into a more restricted and intolerant place.

[K-W]

92. "Freedom doesn't mean freedom from personal responsibility"

Well not exactly, but it does mean freedom from unjust accountability.

Just because someone is responsible for something doesn't necessarily mean you or anyone has a right to hold them accountable for it.

[architect359]

256. I disagree

Being responsible for an action means that you have ownership of that action. A person cannot just do something in a public place and walk away. If that was the case, there'd be social anarchy.

[K-W]

265. I assume you mean chaos, not anarchy?

"Being responsible for an action means that you have ownership of that action. A person cannot just do something in a public place and walk away. If that was the case, there'd be social anarchy."

Actually that isnt what responsible means. And yes, a person can just do something in a public place and walk away, as long as what that person did didnt infringe on the rights of others. Freedom means being able to do what you want without being punished.

[architect359]

348. Yup

You're right I meant to say chaos.

Yes, I agree that Freedom does mean that you can do whatever you want. But I believe that a person also has an obligation to the others living / functioning in the same community. Sure, you have a right to do whatever you want as an absolute freedom, but freedom also means choices. There are always choices to be made and all choices have consequences (big or small) that will affect that individual and to some extent others too.

All I'm trying to express here is that based on how easy it is to access whatever we wish, people contributing to that knowledge pool should be more aware of who will be come around to use that information. We live in a community and for it to function there are certain guidelines that a whole, we tacitly agree to abid by. One can choose to disregard that - and one is absolutely free to do that - but that is a choice.

[paper chase guy]

85. So that everyone knows what they're talking about...

Here's a link to some pictures of the unlocked content.

http://www.gtasanandreas.net/news/single.php?id=1469

Not safe for work, obviously, although it's really hilariously bad and rather tame.

[DS1]

88. This is BULLSHIT, and Hillary is a fucking FOOL to go after this

CRAP!

It's a downloadable customized mod NOT produced by the manufacturer you inunformed attention whore

[Moochy]

91. She's an idiot

but but the chilluns? who will protect them from the otherwise harmless game?

I'm not a freeper, she's an idiot. I'm a liberal who has always been irked by the neos. lib or con.

[Deja Q]

118. Harmless?!!

3 years ago I bought and played GTA3. I got addicted to running over pedestrians. Soon enough I felt the urge to do it in real life. So you're damn right I stopped. I value life, even human life, too much. Besides, it's illegal.

Impressionable minds CAN BE affected by this stuff. And I offer myself as an example, feel free to flame and insult me as far as you want.

[Moochy]

125. Lessons in Life : GTA Style

Ok, its not harmless, the GTA games are VITAL training for my active lifestyle.

Last time I was out stealing cars and mugging old ladies, the cops finally caught on, and eventually the helicopters and the SWAT team were after me. Jesus if I hadn't trained so much on GTA games I would have been ill-prepared for their assault. HOWEVER, I knew that if you were just able to get to the rotating floppy disk in my kitchen, I would be able to save, and I'd lose the cops. Well I only had a sliver of health left, and four wanted stars, but you'll be happy to know i'm the proud onwer of a Rhino Tank in my garage. Also having 3 or 4 girlfriends is something I learned in the GTA games.

Thanks Rockstar for giving me the tools and training I needed to live my active lifestyle.

[paper chase guy]

126. I think you're alone there.

I've never heard of anything like this. Most people can easily separate fantasy from reality.

[jayfish]

252. Well, I Did TryTo Get Some Extra Style Points...

the last time I jumped my car off the top level of the local parking garage. Trouble was I didn't get a damn thing for it but three stars and a trip to Macco.

Jay

[youspeakmylanguage]

127. Hypno, I have always liked you...

...so I'm sorry if this ends our on-line friendliness, but if a videogame can realistically inspire you to commit vehicular homicide, then you seriously, seriously need professional psychiatric help.

If you're being serious, than so am I. As serious as heart attack. Because you're a threat to society.

[Sin]

131. ? wow

you really need to seek help quickly because if a video game can make you want to do that what would books do to you or tv hell id be even worried if you watch nature shows. But you know if you really want to do it even better theres this great movie called "The Deer hunter" plz get this movie and watch over and over and over again.

[Moochy]

138. goo hypnotoad!!

ROFL

the other responses on this thread are great.. the sarcasm impaired.

[Ambrose]

185. Seek help

If playing a computer game made you want to run people over you should seek some professional help. No offense is intended, just want you to be better.

As for the game; it is a game. The media has made it more than it is. It had some great inovations for sure, but there isn't any more or less violence than exists in a multitude of games. Hillary is wrong here, but it doesn't matter...she is going after the soccer moms again. It's just a puff of air that will amount to nothing.

[VegasWolf]

189. Me too!!! I ran over three Freepers on the same day after just playing

twice. Thank god i can resist the evil call to the joystick
now!

[Emerson]

195. I call BS

I hope this post was sarcasm.

You felt the urge to do it in real life? If that is really true I would suggest you see someone about it. That is NOT a normal reaction.

[Endangered Specie]

270. GTA games are a good way to release pent up rage...

I often feel less violent after playing a GTA game.

[onebox30]

274. Harmful?!!

3 years ago I was driving home from work in a very angry mood. I had an urge to run-over pedestrians as they ambled slowly across the crosswalk. Thankfully, I knew that I could play-out that fantasy at home on my Playstation2 with GTA3. If not for that outlet, who knows whether I would have ended-up killing some of those people with my car?

[Moochy]

90. OOh there's my hot button issue

Sigh. And some folks want her in 2008? Boggles the mind!!

My question is, how much WORSE is it to have sex with your girlfriend in that game, when you can run around shooting grannys heads off, collecting the money for fun and profit?

I'm really disgustipated by this. Oh what an important issue.

Bull shit.

[NNguyenMD]

101. here's the solution to violent videogames...TAKE AWAY YOUR KID'S GAME!!!

And if that doesn't work then take away their game console, PS2, Xbox, whatevers.

I also find it ironic that the Army recruiting PC game "America's Army" depicts graphic combat violence. Maybe they should slap a big restriction on that too instead of sticking it in every box of peripheral hardware I buy.

[delhurgo]

102. I wonder how much of a role racism plays

with how offended Hillary is with this? Because the scenes include 'interracial couples' (with their clothes on! Wow, big deal, kids heads will asplode! heh)

I wouldn't be surprised though if race is a reason why she's so outraged about this. She may not even realise it, but the scenes are so.... tame that it seems odd that someone would choose to make such a big issue about it. It seems like making a mountain out of a mole hill to me.

Hillary may think she can get mileage out of playing on peoples... discomfort about interracial couples too. I understand that politics is about winning, but there are some places you just shouldn;t go.

[JPZenger]

113. GTA is Already Rated "M"

Grand Theft Auto is already rated M. If you let your kids play that game, you deserve to have them be corrupted.

By the way, you can tell Blockbuster to block "M" games from being rented on your card.

[Deja Q]

116. Is she worried the games will make men more like her hubby? Worse,

why the hell isn't she addressing the VIOLENCE concern, which is far more a concern than sex?!

Of course, what do these sex minigames entail? Seeking a hooker? Or overly raping one, beating her afterwards with a baseball bat, and then stealing the money? If it's the latter then there's a good here... but even then, why not go after the filthy POS company in the first place? GTA3 alone is so downright dirty it's despicable...

I dunno. Video game profits improve while intellectual-oriented jobs continue to go overseas... Is America no longer concerned about raising brilliant people, in favor of angry devolved robots, ripe for picking into the military? (obviousy, yes. Peak oil is real...)

[flvegan]

117. This story will probably cause another million downloads of "Hot Coffee"

to occur. Rockstar should be thanking Sen. Clinton.

[youspeakmylanguage]

123. Not to mention the people that will run out and buy the game...

...before Rockstar makes a grand show of amending the code on future copies to prevent the mod from working.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out Rockstar is donating big to Senator Clinton.

[progressivebydesign]

120. Hillary.. I am MUCH more concerned about the violence.

But America is so fucked up beyond reason.. that sex gets people upset, but graphic virtual murders and beatings register zero on the Richter scale of morality.

[sleipnir]

128. If the kids aren't' going to get SexEd in school, let's let Rockstar do it

Why not?

I found the clip to be highly educational. Just look at the way he's working it. And you have to move to the rhythm. That's not something you'll learn in class! Hot damn, if I were a parent, I'd MAKE my kid play this thing.

And I learned that the next time the girl at the deli asks me if I want my coffee hot or iced, I know what she's talking about. And I do like it hot!

[JackieO]

130. This from someone instrumental in the slaughter of Iraqis

Nice priorities, lady.

[VegasWolf]

170. Well said, JackieO!!! nt

[Moochy]

190. Kind of makes sense...

Well, she wants well adjusted soldiers to fight in her foreign wars of aggression.

[ismnotwasm]

136. I've watched my kids play some of the violent games

They're all over 18. The games to me are stupid, with silly goals. But I'm not a gamer enthusiast.. My daughter works with younger children who have been allowed to play violent games. She sees a difference in behavior between the ones who are allowed and the ones that are not. The ones who are allowed, definitely hit more, act out more. Play more violently, as do the ones who watch such things on TV. She feels the age limit is the most important factor. She doesn't feel the violent content affects adults the same way. Of course this is anecdotal, but children need to stay away from these games. (Obviously, I know) Senator Clinton has her hands full on this issue but I do understand her point. The combination of sex and violence feeds a culture of sex and violence. But how to regulate or even prosecute? I have no answers, and don't even know if regulation and/or prosecution is the answer. We may need to go further back, Why are these games so attractive to so many? What alternatives can we offer? They are not going to go away, banning them would just create a black market.

[Kitsune]

155. Oh for crying out loud

You're in the middle of the most corrupt administration in the history of the United States, who are blatantly lying their way into yet more and more criminality, and when things finally start to get traction in the mainstream media, what do you do?

You try to start up your ridiculous "video games are bad, mkay?" crusade again.

For fuck's sake, what on Earth is the matter with you?!

And people wonder why I'll never vote for her...

[VegasWolf]

174. Hillary will add a new cabinet position - Secretary of Media Content. nt

[maxwall]

180. There's a good way to lose my vote...

It's just like Tipper and the PMRC... I understand wanting to keep violence/sex out of the hands of children. But PARENTING is what works. And it's not like it isn't obvious from the literature about the game, and that it's RATED MATURE, that kids under 17 shouldn't play it.
The first amendment law is very clear - you can't prohibit adults from seeing things just because kids shouldn't be seeing them - just because you don't want 6 year olds to see this, doesn't mean that 26 year olds shouldn't.
Besides the fact that Rockstar had (supposedly) nothing to do with this. Programmers have made "mods" for thousands of games for at least a decade now. The problem is, these politicians are so behind the times and out of touch with gaming culture, that they have no idea how mods work, or even what they are....
Hillary - don't get involved in this. I hated Lieberman for all the bull he was pulling with blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine. She's gonna pick up fleas from laying down with the censorship dogs....

[Blue_Tires]

192. oh jfc

this will be a REAL worthwhile use of her time

[Endangered Specie]

194. Well, Ill have to make sure to download that mod then...

sorry, Hill, but there are a lot of other things more important, any kid with half a brain can find porn at the age of 15, San Andreas or not.

Seriously, in GTA you can kill anyone (cops, men, women, whomever appears) with just about anything (knives, bats, ak47's sub machine guns, flamethrowers, old fashioned rifles, etc...) Also, you can destroy any vehicle you come across, and whoever is in them.

Every naughty word in the book is in the game too, not to mention 'lesser' crimes, such as carjacking, burglary, extortion, larceny, defacement, arson and others Im probably forgetting.

Plus theres also gambling, hit and run, every traffic violation in the book.........


And shes worried about the porn. Seriously, this game shouldnt be sold to a minor, porn or sans porn. (wasnt there a similiar outrage when it was found that a Lara Croft game had a cheat where she would be bucknaked?)

By the way, though it may not sound like it, I enjoy playing the game :evilgrin:

[Sin]

201. actually the Lara Croft thing

was another mod hehe :) the cheat that every one said always existed never did the same type rumor got circulated with metroid from the nes were as the quicker you beat the game the less of the samus's suit would be on eventually you would get all the suit off and see she was a girl ( some said that if ya did it really quick at the end she would have nothing on at all.)

On a side note for neat easter eggs go out and get "Destroy all humans" it makes fun of fundies repukes and * alot in that game im still cracking up from the captured thoughts were you will get most of your 1 liners from.

[bspence]

210. I remember that!!

She'd just have a bikini on :(

[jayfish]

241. Here Is Another Fine Example.

NVIDA creates technology demos for each class of video cards they release. One of them is called Dawn and features a scantily clad pixie dancing on a tree branch. There are mods available that allow you to remove Dawns cloths. Mind you this demo is not a crude graphical representation like GTA or Tomb Raider. They are as close as you can come to PIXAR level stuff.

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_dawndemo_home.html

Jay

[Name removed]

253. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[youspeakmylanguage]

255. Female domination videos already exists...

...check out the bondage and domination section of your local Adult video store. But you probably couldn't bring yourself to enter one of those places because they're MALE DOMINATED and they DEGRADE WOMEN!

The REAL reason for the 1st amendment is to guarantee freedom of speech and expression, which includes creative expression.

"Give the girls their celebrity gossip magazines, wine, and quarts of Ben and Jerry's...that'll shut 'em up and keep them occupied." Does that sound any less bigoted and ridiculous coming from my mouth than it does yours?

[Name removed]

261. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[youspeakmylanguage]

263. LOL

I don't have to justify my level of activism to you or anyone else. And my ego is stronger and more secure than yours will ever be, judging by the tone of your post.

The 1st Amendment is the 1st Amendment. It protects pornographers, video game enthusiasts and bitter, spiteful women who get their jollies from dishing out sexist condescension on progressive message boards. Its kind of universal in that way.

[Chovexani]

271. Ya know

As a bitter, spiteful woman who's been a video game enthusiast for over 15 years, dresses up as video game characters at conventions, and posts gay porn about video game characters all over her blog, I salute you. :yourock:

I learned a long time ago on DU that, as a lifelong gamer, I am stupid, lazy, violent and/or apathetic. This is why I generally hang out in the Gamer group and Lounge, and only occasionally bring up my hobby on other areas of the site. On this issue at least, I have learned the hard way that liberals are no more your friend as a gamer than conservatives.

[youspeakmylanguage]

338. I learned a long time ago...

...that many "liberals" can be just as uninformed, close-minded, bigoted, and nasty as their conservative counterparts, some even more so. The only difference is the ideology fueling their "activism". The 1st Amendment, especially, seems to be the punching bag of choice for intellectual fascists on both sides. This thread seems to by flypaper for the worst of them.

I'm more of a retro gamer myself - I'll buy another PS2 when the price drops to $100, but right now I'm happy with my PS1 games. I'm even more retro on my PC - PrBoom for Linux and some ancient DOOM WADS are all I need to stay happy.

If cosplay and other forms of fantasy make you happy, then by all means enjoy them to the fullest. Don't let the prudes bring you down.

[Name removed]

317. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[youspeakmylanguage]

337. You can call me all the names you want...

...as long as you follow the rules. We're open like that here. Again, it's that beautiful concept of free expression.

Since this little "debate" began, only you have been talking obsessively about male masturbation and the thought of me engaging in it.

Unfortunately, I do not "perform" publicly or privately for money. You mentioned before that you frequent adult boutiques for sexual aides - perhaps you can find masturbation videos there? Or magazines with classifieds? Or maybe even other men here who would be happy to perform for you.

You are free, though, to continue fantasizing about me if you wish. I'm flattered by the attention!

[Zhade]

350. HAHAHAHA!!!

Can I just say, OWNED!

Nicely done.

:yourock:

[youspeakmylanguage]

264. .

duplicate

[Zhade]

349. You have no argument, so you resort to personal attacks.

That's a violation of the rules here.

[bspence]

346. You...don't...understand

This game doesn't have nudity in it. At. All.

Some geek in the Netherlands hacked it to put nudity in it.

[bspence]

347. and it's interesting, because Lara Croft IS a woman who kills men

Doesn't bother me one bit.

[mattclearing]

197. This is so dumb.

The sex thing is her problem.

Nevermind the violence and the ultra-criminal elements in the game that encourage cop-killing and God-knows-what-else.

Looks like we're back to square one with bullshit moralizing.

Nice one, Hillary. She, of all people, should know how little patience the electorate has with politicians who are anti-sex.

[Sterling]

199. I truly hate this lady.

I cannot believe I wasted a vote on her. She has yet to do something I like.

[JHB]

203. Clarification needed:

Is this about something that's in the game as installed from the disk (an unlockable feature or "easter egg") produced by Rockstar and included on the disk by Rockstar? Does it appear in all versions of the game? (for PC, X-Box, PS2)

Or is this a Mod (a modification of the game written by outside parties, downloaded and installed on a PC (and only PC))?

[Sin]

208. From my understanding

Its in the data buried all be some one had to do some serious digging to find it in the first place then make a mod to unlock it
so its kinda like a easter egg but not. you cant unlock it through natural progression of the game you have activity seek the modding program to use it the cut out data.

its only on the pc version from what i gather as well because console games are not really built for modding Pc games always had that trump card over consoles.

[AlGore-08.com]

275. Unconfirmed: the game company claims that it's NOT in the game

That the sexual content was created by the dutch hacker who has admitted to creating the mod and posting it online. The ESRB (ratings board) is already investigating whether the code is in the game, or whether it's in the hack. Until they issue their findings, we won't know for certain.

[freedom_to_read]

209. i believe it's a mod

and this is a very silly thing to be making a big deal out of IMHO. In fact, all it does is raise the buzz about it.

I think our country has bigger problems than worrying about its children getting a glimpse of digital boobies.

[K-W]

214. We all know that seeing breasts scars children.

:eyes:

[paper chase guy]

217. It's something in between.

The feature was apparently part of the game originally, but axed early on. (I mean, CJ still does the deed in his clothes, ferchrissake!)

However, the leftover animations, skins, and data was apparently left on the disc. This is pretty common, as games are hugely complex these days and things can get inadvertantly left in, in the rush to complete the game.

So what the hack does, is it re-enables the buried content.

I think under normal circumstances, in say, a Teen rated game, having such content would be questionable and care should have been taken to remove any trace of it.

However, this is a rated M game with a lot of adult content. In the retail version of the game, the sex is actually present. You hear but don't see what's going on, and you can't control it.

[Occulus]

218. My understanding is

it is a mod which unlocks previously locked and unused "cutting room floor" content. In other words, the content isn't in the game in the unmodified version, and the part that unlocks it is itself a user-created mod.

What she's going to end up going after, if she continues along this course allied with whom she currently is on this issue, will be a total ban on user-created content itself, or as much of a ban as possible. No more editors, no more easy interface possible between the user and the game as far as editing or modding is concerned.

"It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling" will be a statement we'll see on the outseide of the box. Meaning, don't edit; if you do, you're breaking the law. (Take a look at who else is supporting this cause of hers and you'll see what I mean when I say this could occur.)

[TroubleMan]

301. THIS IS A MOD

I have the game and the hot coffee mod.

The game had a sex game with clothes on, but it cut it out of the game. There's no way that you can get to it in the game....no cheating, no easter egg, nothing.

But they never deleted the code.

Then the hot coffee mod came along, it enables that code in the game, and the creators of the mod added naked skins to the characters.

In fact, using the hot coffee mod violates the EULA that you agree to when you install the game.

[Spider Jerusalem]

212. Um...FUCK Hillary.

Apparently all of the moralistic idiots aren't on the other side of the aisle.

[ConfuZed]

226. Exactly

In 2008 don't vote for another Clinton in 2012 don't vote for another Bush, these people just need to go away I've had it with all of them.

[Joz]

278. Hell yeah (Bush Clinton Bush Clinton Bush Clinton Bush Clinton)....

This is just stupid:

President Bush, George H.W. (1988-1992)
President Clinton, William J. (1992-2000)
President Bush, George W. (2000-2008) <- hopefully shorter
President Clinton, Hillary R. (2008-2016)
President Bush, Jeb E. (2016-2024)
President Clinton, Chelsea V. (2024-2032)

LAAAAME!! And pathetic. Get them out of here!!! I thought we broke away from England for a reason.

[Zhade]

351. Nope - a couple of posters in this thread fit that description.

I won't say who, of course. :)

[Dr Fate]

222. Yet she can't say a WORD about the DSM.

I will not be supporting her in the primaries.

[Voltaire99]

236. I'm with you.

Let's nominate a Democrat, instead.

[Orsino]

229. GREAT Excuse Not to Pursue Important issues, Hil!

You waste of space.

[jayfish]

230. This Is The Same Kind Of Shite That Turned...

me off to Al Gore and Joementum. People who don't know what the hell they are talking about, deciding how I entertain myself. The game has the equivalent of an NC17 rating already. What's the point? A ban of the game? Extortion of the publishers. If she continues on this track she can kiss my support goodbye. This coming from a gamer of 20+ years.

BTW, I haven't shot, stabbed or bludgeoned anyone yet.

Jay

[Voltaire99]

233. Hillary pulls a Lieberman: How to doom the Democratic Party

Acting the pious scold is always a losing proposition in American history.

It puts one on the side of Prohibitionistists, anti-sex campaigners, anti-Elvis nuts, political correctness freaks, and Bible thumpers.

Hillary's always had a taste for repression, but she's been convulsing toward the right more and more lately. Whether backing the Iraq war or backing down on abortion, she's become an embarrassment.

As her latest nuttiness shows, the DLC wing of the Democratic Party thinks its fortunes are best served by pandering to right wing intolerance.

It's laughable, really. This is a calculated attempt to reach out to NASCAR America. But it's going to cost the Dems a generation of young voters as well as anyone who hates censorship and the nanny state alike.

Mess with video games--the most profitable form of entertainment today--and you can kiss those votes goodbye.

I can't hide my satisfaction, however. I expect this will destroy her chances of being the candidate, thus making way for a Democrat to run on the ticket.

[BattyDem]

239. DSM, Rove, BBV, Patriot Act ....

and THIS is what Hillary decides to go after? :eyes:

The games have ratings for a reason. If parents ignore them, it's not the government's problem.

Why does the whole f*cking country have to live with what's appropriate for a five year old? There are many, many things that are bad for children. Are we going to censor everything? Let's ban R-rated movies because children might see them. Sexy books and magazines should also be outlawed, right? HBO, Showtime, Cinemax ... not appropriate for kids, so let's get rid of them. Let's not forget alcohol and cigarettes! Where the f*ck does it end?

Adults are entitled to the entertainment of their choice. I know PLENTY of adults who play video games ... I'm one of them. I'm sick of these stupid "nanny laws" because people are too freakin' lazy to be parents, so they want the government to do their job for them!

There are ratings on all movies and video games. There are warning labels on CDs with explicit lyrics. TVs have V-chips. Cable boxes have parental control features. There is plenty of software available to lock-out adult content on the internet - many ISPs offer filters with their service. You can have the phone company lock out "976" numbers if you want. The tools are available to protect children and if parents don't use them, that's not my problem. Sure, there's always the possibility that your kid will see something at a friend's house, but they could also get into alcohol or cigarettes at a friend's house or have access to a gun! Should parents lock-up their kids 24/7?

I was in grade school in the 70's and in third grade, some kid brought several dirty magazines to school and was showing them to everyone in the schoolyard. He said he "borrowed" them from his older brother. No internet ... no cable TV ... no DVDs ... no video games ... no PCs - and yet there we were, a bunch of 8 year olds, looking at dirty pictures! My point is ... it is IMPOSSIBLE to prevent a child from ever seeing a nude picture or a violent movie unless ALL sex and violence is banned in every form of media. Do we really want that?


On her official Web site, Clinton lists "fighting the culture of sex and violence in the media" as part of her platform

Hey Hillary ... over 100,000 innocent Iraqis have been killed by the US - that's not violence? Besides, other countries have the same sexual and violent content in their games and movies, yet teen pregnancy rates and crime rates are much lower. Maybe you should be investigating that!

[Voltaire99]

246. Brilliant post.

On her official Web site, Clinton lists "fighting the culture of sex and violence in the media" as part of her platform

Hey Hillary ... over 100,000 innocent Iraqis have been killed by the US - that's not violence? Besides, other countries have the same sexual and violent content in their games and movies, yet teen pregnancy rates and crime rates are much lower. Maybe you should be investigating that!


Well said.

Her priorities are pathetic.

[Generator]

247. That's it man!

Hillary is against COFFEE and ROCKSTARS. What is she the devil or something? Weirdest title in awhile...

$90 million for research into how video games ruin the young ones morals heh?

Screw you, Hillary. Every day I find another reason to not vote for you (like any real liberal would at this point.)

[RandiFan1290]

249. Thanks Hillary!!

After reading this thread I went directly to Google to download the mod. I don't even have the game yet. :evilgrin:


Some of these responses remind me of my ex girlfriend. She had no problem bringing her 9 yo kid to the movies to see The Matrix and various other PG13 or R rated movies that SHE wanted to see, but she threw a fit if he wanted to watch The Simpsons. She claimed that a cartoon with a kid that talks back to his parents would be a bad influence. :shrug:

She actually said that cartoons like The Simpsons and South Park should be banned because cartoons were only for kids. :eyes:

[Endangered Specie]

269. Shes obviously never seen Hentai

:evilgrin:

[RandiFan1290]

287. Holy cow!

Obviously not! :spray: :rofl:

[Sean Reynolds]

258. Hey Hill...how 'bout we focus on REAL problems.

You know, like the Iraq war, poverty in America and the lies of Mr. Bush?

I don't understand our government sometimes...and yes that includes Democrats as well! Their priorities are all out of whack. They'll sit there and talk about violence in video games, TV, movies and music; yet ignore the mounting violence in Iraq. They'll sit there and say we need to ban Grand Theft Auto because it entices violent rebellion. Yet they'll ignore the fact that LONG before GTA came out our youth were stealing cars, raping women and killing people on our streets.

They're so hell-bent on using video games, TV, movies and music as a scapegoat for our problems, that they can't even see that these problems have been apart of our culture long before movies, TV or video games.

Did TV make our founding fathers racist? Did TV force our founding fathers to adopt slavery? No!

Did music make us slaughter the Native Americans? Did music force us to steal their land and claim it as our own? No!

Did movies force Franklin Roosevelt to relocate thousands of Japanese Americans to internment camps? No!

Did video games force Hillary Clinton to vote YES on Mr. Bush's illegal war? No!

Violence in video games does not change from country to country. The same stuff you get here you can get in Canada, England and France. Yet their murder rates, violent crime rates and sexual assault rates are much lower than that of the United States.

So if violent video games, TV, movies and music in Canada aren't causing crime, why is it here?

I'm sorry, but her argument is flawed and maybe she needs to take a look at not only our sensationalist media, but our government as the root problem for these crimes.

Violence is a tool of fear. America's media and government can only prosper by way of fear. We scared the citizens into believing Native Americans were savages and a threat to our society. We scared Americans into believing slavery was ok. We scared Americans into believing it was ok to throw Japanse-Americans into camps and we scared Americans into believing we had to go to war with Iraq.

[Rex]

276. That's it Hill, worry about virtual violence, sex, etc

and ignore the real violence, sex and war in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know, the one you signed off on? :eyes:

[LanternWaste]

277. Game Over

Just did some research on the game (not the mod/hak/whateveryouwannacallit itself, mind you) and it seems that part and parcel of the "fun" comes from killing police officers, running over people and drug-running?

This is a game? Some Du-er's play this game? Some *adult* DU-er's play this game? Sen. Clinton's position aside, I have a difficult time understanding how anyone could justify this as "amusement".

I don't give a cat's hair how badly I get flamed, but... it's one of the most asinine, "lowest-common-denominator", knuckle-dragging, barely literate, half-educated things I've ever encountered.

So go ahead and raise your fists in some bizarre, false righteous-rage about how it feeds your synapses or increases your hand-eye coordination or makes you a better and more decent person, but you just lost 15 credibility points. Game Over.

Jeez.

[Kraklen]

279. Yes, it's a game. A real fun one.

false righteous rage indeed.

[LanternWaste]

280. I have no doubt

I have no doubts you think that shooting police officers (albeit PC simulations of them) is great entertainment. We all advertise ourselves in numerous ways. Enjoy yourself

:)

[Kraklen]

283. It's more fun to beat them with a double headed dildo.

But as long as real cops are shooting and beating unarmed black men in real life I think there's more important things for congress to worry about.

[LanternWaste]

286. I intentionally left out my opnion on Sen. Clinton's position

As I previously said, Sen. Clinton's position aside, it's *my* personal opinion that this is an asinine and vaguely stupid thrill. I'm not stating what I think Congress should or should not be worrying about.

"But as long as real cops are shooting and beating unarmed black men in real life I think there's more important things" that we the people should be doing other than playing games that advertise our class (as in "classy", not in the contect of wealth, 'cause we all know that even the poorest person can have more class than the wealthy), our focus and our direction.

Just my opinion is all. Not that I think I should or should not be censored, but that the game is a fundamental waste of time, energy and money.

[Joz]

288. Ridiculous statement

Just my opinion is all. Not that I think I should or should not be censored, but that the game is a fundamental waste of time, energy and money.

That is very opinionated as you just stated. Who cares what you think is a fundamental waste of time, energy, and money. Thats subjective by anybody towards any form of entertainment. What if I think reading is a fundamental waste of time, or watching movies, sex, or anything else that is entertaining? I'm sure many think that paying close attention to politics and reading message boards like DU is a fundamental waste of time, especially when your party is virtually powerless at the moment. Of course I don't think any of these things, I believe people need entertainment, whatever they like is fine.

[LanternWaste]

291. as important and as relevant as all other opinions

My opinion is as important and as relevant as all other opinions on this board. No more, no less. If you thought reading was a waste of energy, I would disagree, but I wouldn't say, "Who cares what you think?".

Should I bow down before the gaming-masses and say, "I had an epiphany! You're all working toward a better tomorrow each and every time you play this game!" No gonna happen my friend.

[Joz]

332. You're going off-track

The point I'm making is "who cares if you think playing games is a waste of time/money/energy" in relation to this thread, not in general. It has nothing to do with the point of the news, which is should the government be regulating entertainment, should democratic leaders be endorsing censoring media/speaking out against video games. If you're going to side track off of that and make an offensive sweeping declaration that people who enjoy these types of games as wasting their money/time/energy, you should expect nothing less than justification positions and people challenging YOUR hobbies.

Also, writing off the gaming masses in a sarcastic manner that they are working toward a better tomorrow shows considerable ignorance. There are many technologies that work toward a better tomorrow that come from video games. Flight simulators, virtual reality environments for people to overcome their fears, software that helps certain types of blind people be able to see, perhaps this 3-D graphics technology could be used in the future to render a somewhat decent visual of the outside world to the blind altogether. Spending money on games that keep pushing and developing the technology farther and farther towards these goals is working toward a better tomorrow. The same game engine used in a gory shooting game is now used by real estate to show off properties to people far away. Those 9/11 visuals you watched on the news showing what happened would have likely looked horribly bad if not for video game technology. The technology is good and all around us, I'm sure others have many more examples.

[Kraklen]

289. That's OK.

I personally think apologetics is a waste of time, energy, and money; but if somebody in congress tries to ban it you won't see me whining about it.

[LanternWaste]

293. Again

Again, I must state that I intentionally left out my position on what Sen. Clinton and/or congress is doing about this, so to bring that up, even in an analogy is pointless.

My post had to do with my opinion of the game and how it can affect (part and parcel-- important qualifier) my opinion of the people who play it.

[Joz]

285. It IS great entertainment :-)

It's a role playing game, you play the role of a gangster, that is what gangsters do. Since you are a zen of peace and meditation that never faces anger in their lives, you cannot relate. Haven't you ever gotten pulled over by a cop for a stupid reason, been given an unwarranted speeding ticket or a parking violation that you had to go fight because you were NOT in the wrong, and wanted to knock the cop out? But you know you can't because you'll go to jail. All police officers are A+ great citizens, those studies showing that many people become police officers because they have abusive personalities are all bogus, right? Never met an asshole cop? Well, now you can put it to the pig out in the game, big freakin deal.

I also hate sitting on the freeway in ridiculous traffic for hours caused by no apparent reason other than people not paying attention to road, talking on their cell phones in their monster SUVs wasting the earth's natural resources. I get so pissed off and enjoy going home, putting on Grand Theft Auto, causing a blockade on the freeway, and blowing up everything. Feels good, good release. Everybody has their own version of meditation, you can sit there in an awkward position with your hands out, I can play the game, then we can all be friendly at dinner.

And by the way, your shock that people on DU would play this game shows that you are living in some sort of fake bubble of wanting to fulfill the right wing's propaganda image of democrats, tree hugging "how dare you speak to me in that fashion?" anti-gun type apologists, which is not an accurate reflection of democrats.

[LanternWaste]

290. More power to ya, chief!

Justify it how you want to. If you feel good by simulating blowing things/people up, more power to ya, chief. But I haven't seen anything that would make me hesitate to state my position again.

Sure, I've gotten angry at people... and in my youth, I took it out in what I thought were constructive ways. But over the years, I've realized that no one *makes* me angry-- I either choose to get angry or not. My choice. My emotions. No one else's.

Not shock so much as sadness. And if I live in a bubble world of idealism, I can't see that as a bad thing. Hey, I know bad things happen... it's simply the closer one gets involved in a community (i.e., DU), the sadder one gets when he sees perceived banality and frivolity defended.

I'll never worry about how the right (or the left) percieves/translates me. It just ain't that important.

By the way, you can speak to me any way you want to, and I'd never say "how dare you", I'd just quietly walk away and shake my head. If you interpreted my statement as a "how dare you" kind of thing, I think you're wrong. It's more a "Jeez... how stupid can some people be" kind of thing (and I doubt I'm the only liberal who ever thought that phrase).

Have fun playing your game, though...

:)

[Rex]

281. LOL

They need to make a video game called Self Righteous Rage! You stand on a virtual soap box and your score depends on how effective you are with the audience surrounding the box.

Bet it would sell. :evilgrin:

[Kraklen]

284. You know what kind of game would sell?

A game where you get to go around and shoot tired old prudes who have nothing better to do with their lives then worry about other people having fun.

And then you get to skull fuck the corpse.

[LanternWaste]

294. I suppose it might sell at that.

I suppose it might sell at that.

Although the inference that I'm worried about what other people do is misplaced at best. Call it "saddened by what other people are doing" instead.

[LanternWaste]

295. "Entertaining and Educational"

"Entertaining and Educational"

Points are reflected by how high you can build your box.

Good thing I wouldn't play it though, what may perceived as rage is merely sadness.

[Rex]

300. Hell I'd play it

it could be fun!

[LanternWaste]

299. Done and done

My opinion that the game is a waste of time seems to have angered a few people. We can't have that now, can we?

"You're opinion is invalid and you are a stupid-head" is what many of the responses appear as.

Play the game. Or don't. I'm not pushing for legislation to prevent you from it, or legislation to force you to play it. Son don't go there. I'm merely stating that it's one of the most banal things I've ever come across.

I have no doubt there are things I do you would find equally pointless... but I doubt I'd get to the point where my response-posts come across like someone's giving me a Nuclear Wedgie.

So have fun with your game...

:)

[Rex]

308. If you posted about something I found pointless then I wouldn't

reply to it - what would be the point? The fact that some people like to play games you find 'pointless' seems to have angered you.

Like you say, done and done. :eyes:

[slutticus]

324. It's awesome.

You can also pimp hoes, get in gang wars....and actually....you can keep the gang territory you win....but you have to defend it.....and man IS THAT a pain in the ass. You haven't lived until you've had about 30 of those Vagos motherfuckers coming for you and your boys from every fucking direction. Sometimes the cops do get in the way... What do you expect a gansta to do?

But if violence isn't your thing (which i take it....it isn't)....then you can fly planes, go skydiving, drive boats, go mountain biking and even fly a fighter jet. You can also date some of the women you meet. Racing low-riders is also fun. You can also gamble in Las Venturas....if that's your thing.

This one goes out to Grove Street....

Don't be hatin' on the game. Pimpin' ain't easy...

B.T.W....Hand-eye coordination? :rofl: good one :D

[Moochy]

360. MY DU STREET CRED!!?!?!

Good thing I saved before I posted that I played GTA:SA.

Can't have my precious rep tarnished :)

[aresef]

282. I just saw her on NBC Nightly News...what happened to her?

"The ability of our children to acceess pornographic material in an M-Rated game is spiraling out of control."

Uhm.........it only happened once.

And the ESRB's already investigating. Apparently if it turns out the Hot Coffee stuff was already there and was simply unlocked by the mod, the rating will be changed to AO and Rockstar will be punished accordingly, because it was their responsibility to be honest with the ESRB.

[jazzcat1]

296. Hillary?

Can somebody explain to me what Hillary wants to do about this
problem? Does she want to have the game-maker revise the
product, or make it more difficult for minors to access this
material (probably the best option, as making the game-maker
revise the content of their work would open a pandora's box of
censorship that nobody wants). It's the retailers absolute
responsibility to make sure their complying with the rules,
and the manufacturers should not have to deal with this. 
They're selling a legal product, no matter how unethical it
is.

Peace Out

[Chicago Democrat]

297. I guess I would call this pure politics and not really important

please move along folks to issues like the bringing the troops home.

[killbotfactory]

298. they had their friggin clothes on!

it's not real!

oh but this link, she's naked.
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2673401

man that's one hot squarish fake ass she's got there...

[slay]

303. If you don't want the mod - don't use it

Hillary is so fuckin stupid for getting involved with this shit. I'll never vote for her Republican-lite ass.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

304. A couple of points:

Children can't drive to the store to buy the game.

Children don't have jobs that enable them to pay for the game.

What the hell happened to good parenting? And why the hell is Hillary trying to appeal to fundies that will NEVER vote for her in the first place?

[TroubleMan]

306. Also it's not part of the game.....you have to modify the original game

see my post here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4105427

[Starbucks Anarchist]

307. Yes, I forgot to mention that.

Also, why the hell does everything have to be appealing to children?

[ozone_man]

305. Hillary shouldn't have voted for violent Iraq war.

That's no simulation over there. 100,000 dead and almost 2,000 Americans. Forget GTA, it's a game. Iraq is real. :wtf:

[gulfcoastliberal]

318. Exactly

Hillary is nothing but an enormous dissapointment. A repuke pretending to be a dem. Nothing more, nothing less. She wants to crack down on video games? Uh, ok.

[0rganism]

312. In other news, GTA: San Andreas sales increased 500% in 24 hours

Rockstar Games really should give Hillary a sales commission for launching this "inquiry". Heck, put her on the payroll.

[norml]

313. Spoil Sport!

Let the people have whatever harmless games and entertainments they want.

[MrSlayer]

314. Rockstar to Hillary: Fuck Off.

Focus on the important issues Mrs. Clinton, not this silly shit. Rockstar did not create this modification.

[Phoonzang]

315. While Hillary goes after...

..an ADULT video game where people have sex with their clothes on, the repugs are stacking the courts with religious-right wackos and giving the country over to corporations.

Always good to see the liberals sticking true to their principles to protect first amendment rights wherever possible. /sarcasm off

Leave my video games the fuck alone! Clark '08!

[inthebrain]

320. This is why I have my doubts on Hillary

And probably won't vote for her.

This does nothing to help anybody.

If I want a right wing whacko I'll vote Republican.

I dont vote Republican so therefor I dont want a right wing whacko. THis is seriously treading on Falwells territory.

[DaDeacon]

322. Lookit' this is just stupid...

Hey Hill do something worth while like help get Rove or Make sure Billy Is getting "hot Coffee" at home will ya!!!!!!!!

[EchoV]

330. "hot Coffee"

Nice... you disagree with a woman so you make some degrading remark. Maybe you think she should just keep herself barefoot and pregnant too?

[DaDeacon]

358. Noty at all ....

You seem to think that this "cursade against a M raterd game " is ok you must like censorship. Come on ...I think she would be more effective making sure her man isn't getting his "needs" elsewhere, what a bad person I am! Check yourself you really sound like a fool.

[slutticus]

323. Damn!

So you can't do this with the PS2 version?

Why do they have to put the cool shit on the PC version only?

I wonder if Hillary has seen the sex mini-game in "God of War".
I thought it was brilliant.

[Joz]

333. You can do it on PS2

but you need an action replay to unlock it.

[Jack_DeLeon]

326. Holy fucking shit, and some people want her to run for President...

where the fuck are our real fucking leaders the ones who actually know thier shit and if they dont they atleast wont fucking making shit up just so they can say they have an opinion on whatever fucking shit is the topic of the day.

Hillary doesnt know shit about video games and neither do alot of these pricks in congress that are making a deal of this yet they see absolutely nothing wrong talking out of thier ass just to say that they have an opinion about games.

[0007]

336. What a mindless waste of energy & time for anyone that indulges

in this kind of entertainment. This will definitely attract more teenagers than adults.

Hooray for Clinton!

[Kraklen]

356. You're right. If only kids these days spent more time...

getting elected to congress and then spending their time as a senator to fight the first amendment and spending time posting on internet message boards complaining about what a waste of time video games are.

[Boo Boo]

359. Sister Soulja Moment

Forget it, Hillarious, it ain't gonna work. Some day a woman will be President of the United States, and it isn't going to be you.

[muchacho]

361. culture war

There's a real war going on...this is a diversion. If parents are allowing kids to play this game then shame on them.

[wmills551]

364. Shame on the parents?

But it is a diversion to go after the corporation that runs adds for GTA on MTV and sporting events, then allows graphic porn to be "enabled" in the content.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

365. They DON'T ALLOW graphic porn in the game.

The graphic porn stuff is enabled through a download made by a 3rd-party hacker in Europe. The guy made an illegal modification to the game.

Rockstar had nothing to do with it. It's kind of like those "family-edited" DVDs (but content-wise, in reverse) that have illegal modifications to movies while still showing the credits of the individuals who made the unedited movie in the first place.

[wmills551]

366. And Rockstar loves it!

And what moves have they made as a company to try and remedy the situation. None!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

367. This is the first time many have even heard of the modification.

And it only applies to the PC version, so it's not like you can access it on any platform.

[bvar22]

368. Have I got it right?

Hillary is taking a strong stand against some light weight cartoon sex in a video game,
but supports the ongoing violent mass murder of Iraqi children in the REAL World?

I'm having trouble connecting these dots.

[wmills551]

369. I bet the corporate owner of GTA would love your post!

[bvar22]

370. It is clear

It is clear that Rockstar hasn't sent Hillary her large campaign check yet.
That's all it would take to shut her up!

AFAIK, Rockstar hasn't outsourced design and development jobs to India.
I have no problem with Corporations. They are great tools.

I DO have problems with RICH Corporate Owners buying influence and legislation from the Democratic Party that HURTS the Working American.

I ALSO have a BIG problem with our government's steady encroachment into our individual lives.

BTW: I am currently playing GTA San Andreas. It is a SUPERB game.
No compulsion to "killa cop" or "pimp a ho" yet. I'll keep you posted.
The game DOES have some trancendental value in the development and evolution of the main character.

GROVE STREET!!!!

[LivingInTheBubble]

377. its a good point.

what are your thoughts on it wmills551, why is it ok to kill and occupy(she is also pro israeli actions) but not see a very poorly rendered naked person.

[wmills551]

379. my thoughts are

that you seem to be setting a pretty high standard. Only those Democrats who are for Israel's withdraw from occupied lands and for the United States' immediate withdraw from Iraq can have legitimate points on other topics. Thats a really small group of Democrats (please name someone on it). These are different issues and Hillary is right to take on Rockstar over this violent and pornographic game that is marketed to kids.

[carlvs]

371. Oh lookie here:

This non-issue has drawn the attention of that ambulance-chasing, anti-gaming zealot Jack Thompson. :puke: Read this letter demanding (figuratively speaking) the head of the Entertainment Software Association's president.

I especially like the fact that he provided his e-mail address in his rant: apparently he is so wedded to the "only kids play computer and video games" stereotype that he apparently thinks he would suffer no repercussion from this MAJOR violation of internet security (especially someone that has so many "friends" in the gaming community...) :evilgrin:

[The Stranger]

378. Why in the fuck is she consumed with a video game when there is

a fucking illegal world war going on?

[Zodiak]

380. I'm proud to be a Democrat

But I am not proud of the fact that the Southern DLC wing of the party takes on these issues to impose a "nerf" society on us because it polls well. Tipper's little crusade in the 80's made me want to puke....I was a metal musician then so I felt the bite strongly.

Soccer moms and safety nazis are some of my least favorite members of the big tent, and I think they push moderate Republicans away from voting for us. (Yeah I said it. You want moderate republicans to vote Democrat in the next election?, then stop the nanny state BS..it turns moderate Republicans off, but the fundies like it...too bad fundies will NEVER vote Democrat...a losing strategy if I ever saw one, but that is what the DLC is about, isn't it?).