Matt Cooper's Source -What Karl Rove told Time magazine's reporter

[OKNancy]

Readers: I am starting a new thread with the original source and with the correct subject line to avoid confusion. Thanks


Matt Cooper's Source
What Karl Rove told Time magazine's reporter


By Michael Isikoff
Newsweek
July 18 issue - It was 11:07 on a Friday morning, July 11, 2003, and Time magazine correspondent Matt Cooper was tapping out an e-mail to his bureau chief, Michael Duffy. "Subject: Rove/P&C," (for personal and confidential), Cooper began. "Spoke to Rove on double super secret background for about two mins before he went on vacation..." Cooper proceeded to spell out some guidance on a story that was beginning to roil Washington. He finished, "please don't source this to rove or even WH " and suggested another reporter check with the CIA.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek

[ruggerson]

1. Huff Post: Newsweek Docs Show Rove Leaked CIA Agent's Name

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/david-corn/explosive-new-rove-revela_3933.html

And the Newsweek story is up:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek

What Karl Rove told Time magazine's reporter


YES!!!!!!!!

[Occulus]

2. Bye-bye, Karl.

Think on this: could such a potentially disastrous political ploy have ever been given the green light completely without the knowledge of the President or the Vice President?

[jaysunb]

6. no.....

n/t

[leveymg]

34. People will see through to the fact that Bush-Cheney broke the law, Big

Time. This is a really bad breach of security by Rove. Treasonous.

But, in strictly legal terms -- if this is all that Rove said about Plame -- it might be difficult to nail Karl with violation of the Covert Agent Identities Protection Act (CAIPA). That would require a showing that Rove knew Plame was an undercover agent.

Plame's covert role was sourced from a second person in the know. That may have been Miller, who has been covering the WMD beat for years. They might well have known each other, personally, in which case Miller would have a pretty good idea what Plame's job was.

Anyway, in the end, if Rove lied to the Grand Jury about telling Cooper that Wilson's wife was CIA, that's perjury. It wouldn't be hard for Fitzgerald to convince a jury that Rove directed journalists to other sources so that they would easily discover Plame's covert job, thus outing her. That's conspiracy.

The American people won't put up with this. No way. Karl's going to jail, but Bush-Cheney are out the door -- at the very least.

I'll settle for that. This is the last chapter for Bush-Cheney.

[leveymg]

52. There's another huge scandal connected to this, Espionage Act

prosecutions may be in the works for the long-standing allegations against Cheney's office as the source of this leak. This goes back to FBI investigations into WMD intelligence that were funneled through the OSP to the White House. OSP Iran desk officer Lawrence Franklin will be tried in Sept for his connections with Israeli intelligence.

[janx]

85. They were desperate to cover up their trumped up reasons

for this war. Joe Wilson knew that they were lying, so Rove outed his wife in an attempt to shut him up.

But Wilson didn't shut up.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

99. In addition to that, and I think this was the primary reason for their....

...actions, the NeoCons had to shut down Plame's global WMD tracking network, because that was one of the last two groups not going along with the official story that "Iraq has WMDs". The other group was the UN weapons inspectors who were eventually ordered out of Iraq by the NeoCons.

This is a VERY ugly story, and the more that the public knows, the angrier they're going to get.

[janx]

112. Thanks for pointing that out.

It had not occurred to me.

[bribri16]

147. BINGO!!! Bush and admin lied on purpose about WMDs. They knew

what they were doing from the very beginning. THIS IS TREASON!!!!
But only hurricane Dennis will get the coverage.

[Zhade]

158. Yes - the fact that people lying about the threat of WMDs...

...blew the cover of a CIA agent tracking the trafficking of WMD to terrorists (!!!) really blows my mind.

The sheer audacity, not to mention irony!

[jazzjunkysue]

166. and all that left us undefended, and in danger, too. Treason, on

several levels.

[skip fox]

137. Perhaps a conspiracy charge will hold? RICO?

See post #135 below.

[BCBud]

150. I think what has become absoloutely clear....

... is that he was obviously attempting to discredit Joe Wilson, at the very least. Joe wilson turned out to be correct. This is the story. Misrepresenting the facts in covering-up the lie about the WMD's. This leads to the DSM's. I can't believe the American public is going to go along with this much longer. Its just getting worse and worse. The house is going to have to act on behalf of a very outraged majority.

[Nite Owl]

46. The 'buck stops here'

never seems to apply with them.

It does or they are totally incompetent and show bad judgement in the people that they trust to work for them.

[FourStarDemocrat]

61. Don't forget to rate the story up people. n/t

[Scout1071]

78. Rated a 5. Thanks for the reminder!

[LiberallyInclined]

144. i'll believe it when i see it-

and i ain't holding my breathe-

but it would be to sweet to describe with mere words.

[lovuian]

3. They got him on perjury and obstruction of justice and Abuse of

power!!!

Not small things!!! and on top of it he was close to Treason charge!!!

Bush is going to have to ask for his resignation and when he doesn't then we know Bush will never ever follow the law then Fitzgerald will have to convict Rove!!!

and will Rove go quietly in the night or take others with him???

[hang a left]

64. According to the article..

Rove's counsel states that he has not perjured himself and that he has identified all reporters that he spoke with to Fitzgerald.

Conspiracy is probably the most likely charge. Then again, who knows the artlcle is carefully worded.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

92. "Rove's counsel" is an excellent source of information. NOT.

[Roland99]

155. The same counsel that said Rove *wasn't* the source?

[Auntie Bush]

74. He may go quietly..but, he'll just continue his dirty/evil work from home.

That's probably the real reason that Karen Hughs returned to Texas, where she can secretly coordinate conspiracies from home. Who knows what secret evil lurks from that ranch in Crawford?

Inquiring minds want to know if there are any records kept of what transpires between all those greedy war mongering Villon's? :shrug:

[Olney Blue]

153. Yes, Rove could resign to "spend more time with his family"...

ala Karen Hughes.

I always thought her leaving was strange....

[bilgewaterbill]

4. Curiouser and curiouser. nt

[Fovea]

5. I am getting a message from the past

it's coming through the aether from the Washington Post, Ben Bradlee's office.

It says-- What did the president know, and when did he know it?
<EOM>

[Media_Lies_Daily]

93. And WHY did Herr Busch retain a lawyer almost immediately?

[wookie294]

7. Worse than Watergate !!

This will help make moderate voters finally accept that the Bush administration completely LIED about Iraq, just as far lefties like me have been saying for years! And, hopefully, Rove ends up in jail along with Cheney!

[Peace Patriot]

107. "Moderate voters" were onto the Bush Cartel long ago.

I can't let this go by, wookie294:

"This will help make moderate voters finally accept that the Bush administration completely LIED about Iraq...." --wookie294

1. The Dems blew the Repubs away in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40.
2. New voters voted overwhelmingly for Kerry.
3. Young voters voted overwhelmingly for Kerry.
4. Independent voters voted overwhelmingly for Kerry.
5. Nader voters voted overwhelmingly for Kerry.
6. Gore/Bush 2000 voters canceled each other out (switch voters were a wash), with Gore 2000 voters voting overwhelmingly for Kerry, and getting all their non-voting family members, friends and co-workers (the new voters) to register and vote "THIS TIME" ("the most important election in our history").

Who else is there? Karl Rove's "invisible" get out the vote campaign? Right.

When is everybody going to realize that Bush LOST?

I think the general recognition of this fact is coming. But, like the 100% lies the Bush Cartel told about Iraq, it takes time for word of mouth, the internet and other alternative sources to overcome the news monopoly CONSPIRACY to hide the truth. (The TV networks, acting as one, ALTERED the exit polls on everybody's TV screens on election night--"adjusted" the exit polls (Kerry won) to fit the official tally (Bush won), thus depriving the American people of major evidence of election fraud, and stifling protest and calls for investigation that would have uncovered facts such as the eastern time zone skew to Bush in the exit polls vs the official tally--a literally impossible skew in the official tally.)

Now, in addition to the overwhelming evidence of 2004 election fraud, we have Bush's approval rating sinking like the Titanic--low over the last year (so low that Zogby said he could not win), hitting an unprecedented 49% on the very day of his inauguration (no way a re-elected 2nd term president could be that low), and down to about 40% today--and, in addition, ALL POLLS over the last year showing huge disapproval of every Bush policy, foreign and domestic, way up in the 60% to 70% range. Iraq. Torture policy. The deficit. Social Security. You name it.

Nearly 60% of Americans disapproved of the Iraq war BEFORE the invasion. I will never forget that statistic. They got it BEFORE the invasion. They didn't buy the lies BEFORE the invasion, even before we all knew they were 100% lies. And, after the initial fighting (US troops at risk in the field), it went right back up to nearly 60% and stayed there throughout, and is now up to something like 80%!

It is a measure of the news monopoly war profiteering CONSPIRACY that there is virtually NO MENTION of the plain meaning of these polls: that the Bush Cartel DOES NOT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS and WAS NOT ELECTED. It is staring them in the face. It is a no-brainer. And when you look at WHO COUNTED THE VOTES--two rightwing, major Bush supporter companies, Diebold and ES&S, who managed to sell the states electronic voting systems that use "trade secret," proprietary programming code--code that not even election officials are permitted to review--you know how they did it.

So, what I'm saying, wookie294, is that "moderate voters" overwhelmingly rejected Bush BEFORE the election, and helped vote him out of office by a very big margin (in the 10% range), but we cannot get the will of the majority enforced in this country.

And if you choose to ignore ALL OF THESE NUMBERS, think about this: Where is Bush's support TODAY? WHERE ARE those Bushite greedbags, Christian nutcases and "moderate voters" who "voted" for Bush TODAY? WHAT has changed so that that support--that mysterious "mandate" the Bush Cartel claimed to have from the election--has completely vanished in six months time?

The Iraq war was a quagmire BEFORE the election, and remains so today. The Bush Cartel policies on establishing a religion in this country have not changed. The Bush Cartel looting of our treasury, tax cuts for the rich, and astronomical deficit have not changed. WHAT has changed that all those mythical "moderate voters" for Bush, and/or the highly propagandized surge of rightwing church political activism that supposedly accounted for Bush's win, has completely vanished, leaving Bush with a 40% approval rating?

I think "moderate" votes were stolen. I think Republican votes (for Kerry) were stolen. And I think Democratic votes for Kerry were stolen--for a total of 4 to 8 million stolen votes, flipping the election result to Bush, mostly in small stolen %'s here and there, all over the country, with the most concentration of them in the eastern states, all done by Diebold and ES&S control of the electronic voting machines and central tabulators. (The UC Berkeley statistical team found 130,000 to 260,000 phantom votes for Bush in Florida's three main Democratic counties--Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach--in electronic vs paper voting. Another study found an inexplicable 9% edge for Bush in No. Carolina, in electronic vs. paper. And there were strange anomalous numbers in New Mexico, Iowa and other swing states--not to mention the egregious vote stealing and vote suppression in Ohio.)

"Moderate voters"--and all other honest voters--don't need to realize or accept ANYTHING about the Bush regime. They already know. They have already made a judgment. What they DO need to know is how their votes were stolen--by what mechanism. Because THIS can be changed--with election reform at the state/local level.

Power over the purchase of election systems still resides in state/local jurisdictions, where ordinary people still have some say. This state/local power is the only mechanism we have left to recover our right to vote, and to save our democracy. (Bush's "pod people" in Congress are never, never going to give us back our right to vote. And beware of Democrats who show no interest in how our votes are counted, support paperless voting, and/or have attended lavish lobbying junkets put on by Diebold and ES&S--such as the one at the Beverly Hilton this August.)

For information, and action ideas, see:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

For the Diebold/ES&S love fest with our state/local election officials at the Beverly Hilton this August, see:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

For further information on the 2004 election, see this excellent TruthIsAll post, at:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x366974

[bearfan454]

125. Hey Peace Patriot

You have an excellent grasp of the facts.

[wookie294]

141. Yes, but there weren't enough moderate voters

If just a few hundred thousand more moderate voters had voted against Bush in Ohio, no amount of fraud could have saved Bush. Instead, those moderate voters had voted for Bush, thinking he was an honest man.

Also, opinion polls showed that, in March 2003, most Americans supported the invasion of Iraq. That's alot of moderate voters!

[Doremus]

161. An outstanding post, Peace Patriot!

I've bookmarked it for future reference.

[Zhade]

162. "Nearly 60% of Americans disapproved of the Iraq war BEFORE the invasion."

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU.

I have seen so many Republicans, and DLCer 'centrists' here on DU, LIE about that fact and say that the majority was in favor of invading. Almost always, this is said when people talk about the IWR - apologists insist, WRONGLY, that the majority was in favor of invasion, when in actuality it was in favor of continuing inspections and NOT invading without UN approval (which, of course, WE NEVER RECEIVED - there was no second resolution).

Thanks for pointing out the truth.

[Iowa]

167. This is the best analysis I've seen of this issue...

Thanks Peace Patriot!

[AndyTiedye]

136. Infinitely Worse Than Watergate - This Could Get us Nuked!

Watergate could not have caused a mushroom cloud. This could.

They have destroyed the intelligence network that looked for WMDs.
That network no longer exists. It cannot be replaced any time soon.

They said they were going to war in Iraq to protect us from :nuke::nuke:
Instead, they have left us completely vulnerable to them.
:nuke::scared::nuke::scared:

[wli]

168. not just ruining WMD sting operations

The shenanigans in Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere are "escalating tension" so much they could very well result in overt armed conflict between the US and several different nuclear powers.

[Erika]

8. Just another piece of Bush legacy

This is the most illegal administration to ever be in power in the history of this country.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

32. Kick.... absolutely. Never before has your government been so

completely under the control of corporations, war profiteers and opportunists.

[lovuian]

9. It will be Karma for the man who stole the 2000 & 2004 elections

ends up in jail because of a woman he tried to destroy!!!

[aquart]

18. Now, now.

Don't make me salivate. That's just wrong.

I hadn't considered that angle. But it's sweetness...ahhhhh.

[bluestateguy]

10. Don't. Celebrate. Yet.

I've been through too many door slams for the last 5 years to start jumping up and down now. You don't get to where Rove has gotten today without knowing how to fight this kind of stuff off.

"Oooh! Oh! But this is different!"

No, it isn't. Never underestimate the ability of a white male conservative in a position of power to avoid the consequences of his actions.

[brentspeak]

14. Yeah, there's a couple of things that concern me

One is that Cooper hasn't testified yet; we don't know what he's going to say.

Two is that we were told Cooper's source waived his confidentiality agreement. If Rove is that source, it sounds like he might have a trick up his sleeve.

[goclark]

69. Exactly

Why would ROVE wave his confidentiality agreement NOW? He could have let Cooper trot off to jail.

Unless he was falling on the sword to protect BUSH, and that I believe he would do. He knows that if he did not protect BUSH he would be pushing up daisies. Maybe he will give up Cheney but NEVER the Chimp.

It is another ROVE trick IMO.

I pray that this one sticks to them and their evil deeds roll back to all of them like a mighty stream.

ps/Why is he willing to give it up for Newsweek? They hate NEWSWEEK don't they?

[xxqqqzme]

96. Hate Newsweek? Hell these

Kreapy, Kristian Kriminals hate anyone or thing that is not like them...male, white w/ filthy wealth and stolen power!

[GoBlue]

175. They brag about it too...

Red White & Proud

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8524608/site/newsweek/

[Rockholm]

146. There were two sources.

Maybe Rove is not the one who waived confidentiality?

[daleo]

20. Well put.

"Never underestimate the ability of a white male conservative in a position of power to avoid the consequences of his actions."

[acmejack]

33. Indeed, we know just how slippery Karl is

Despite all of his myriad shortcomings (at least in our eyes) we know, if nothing else, he is a slick customer. But this still brightens my day!

[powwowdancer]

53. Absotively Posolutely Right...

Remember, on the second page of this story about which we're all tittering with such justifiable glee, lurks a damnable disclaimer... "Nothing" in the Cooper e-mail suggests that Rove used Plame's name or knew she was a covert operative." What's publicly known is all circumstantial, so don't break out the party hats just yet. This is NOT the smoking gun. If you're gonna lock horns with "The Man," you need compelling evidence. Someone or something has to come out and say, in plain english, "KKKarl did it." Here's hoping that this big, butt-ugly chicken finally comes home to roost. KKKarl seems like the kind of blubbery, fascist grease-ball that'd rat out someone higher up the food chain to keep from getting his doughy ass pimped out in D-block. Cross yer fingers.

:dem:
powwowdancer out

[Jack Rabbit]

82. Thank you. Somebody has to point that out

EDITED for typing

Nothing in the Cooper e-mail suggests that Rove used Plame's name or knew she was a covert operative.

Ok, he didn't have to know her name, just that she was Wilson's wife and that she worked at the CIA. It shouldn't be too much trouble for a good journalist with that information to find out that Mr. Wilson is married to is married to a lady named Valerie Plame. Moreover, a journalist might be able to find that Ms. Plame worked for Brewster Jennings & Associates and an energy analyst.

However, somebody knew she was a covert operative. David Corn raised the issue of an illegal disclosure of Ms. Plame's identity as a covert agent days after the Novak piece appeared:

Did senior Bush officials blow the cover of a US intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security--and break the law--in order to strike at a Bush administration critic and intimidate others?

It sure looks that way, if conservative journalist Bob Novak can be trusted.

So, here's my theory. Rove told reporters just enough to suggest that Wilson's trip to Niger was a junket arranged by his wife and that his report said something different than Wilson said it did in his article for The New York Times that appeared on July 6, 2003.

The second point was willful disinformation. It was already known long before Wilson wrote his piece for The Times that the Niger document was a forgery. IAEA chairman Mohammad ElBaradei said as much to the UN Security Council in March 2003 while the council was debating the enabling resolution (which was never voted on) two weeks prior to the invasion. What Wilson said that was new was that the Bush regime's policymakers knew that this information was debunked some time prior to Mr. Bush's use of it in his State of the Union message in January 2003; of course, Wilson knew that they knew it had been debunked because he told them.

That explains part of what Rove wanted the press to say, but not the part about Ms. Plame.

Here, Rove simply gave supposedly good reporters just enough information to allow them to connect the dots themselves. If Ms. Plame had enough influence at the CIA to make sure her husband was sent on a special assignment, then she was obviously something more than a file clerk. And if she worked for the CIA and said she worked for somebody else, then she must be undercover. As it turns out, it wasn't very hard to determine that Brewster Jennings is a CIA front.

The idea that this was just a junket doesn't work. Why send Wilson on any assignment if all he is supposed to do is is soak up rays or play golf and otherwise pretend he's working? And he obviously did some work there. At least Rove said he did; Rove told the reporters that Wilson's work was useful to their case against Saddam. Why Wilson? Because his wife worked in the CIA? Or could it be because he is the former ambassador to Gabon, the former acting ambassador to Iraq and considered an expert on uranium mining in Africa?

This may have been one of those rare occasions in the Bushies sent the best qualified man and, as a result, the taxpayers got their money's worth. Unfortunately, the Bush regime's policymakers weren't looking for a report that debunked their case for war, but a report that supported their case for war even if it was a pack of lies.

Returning to the matter of whether Rove outed Valerie Plame, it seems difficult to answer. Perhaps Mr. Rove should ask a jury of his peers.

[notadmblnd]

95. yes, but as you state in your comments

it had already been debunked by more than one source, Al Baradi(sp?) being one of them. So why then did they need Wilson, a third person to go to Africa and debunk it? At first I though it was because they thought Wilson would go along with them and say it was true. But it makes more sense when you throw in the other reason for the outing which was to disrupt the work Ms Plame was doing and getting the dogs off of Cheney and his involvement in selling illegal arms.

[Jack Rabbit]

102. They expected him to go along with them. Exactly.

Perhaps they forgot to give him the memo. Perhaps they did and just didn't know with whom they were dealing.

In September 1990, Wilson, then acting ambassador to Iraq, gave refuge to about a hundred American citizens in the US embassy in Baghdad in defiance of Saddam's orders. Saddam threatened to execute anybody harboring foreigners. Wilson called a press conference and showed up wearing a noose in lieu of a necktie. He said his message to Saddam was: "If you want to execute me, I'll bring my own (expletive deleted) rope."

Did the Bushies really expect anything but straight shooting from a man like that? They may have gotten other people to tell them anything they wanted hear, regardless of the facts, but hat possessed them to think Wilson would do that?

[fishnfla]

105. "what Rove wanted the press to say"

Its interesting to note that in part of the conversation, Rove implied that there was still plenty of evidence linking Iraq to Niger uranium.

In other words, in the double secret background talks, he was still pushing the WMD lies

[Jack Rabbit]

109. Yes. They were still doing that in the Summer of 2003.

There were even some supporters of the invasion here who were still confident that they would be found eventually.

The idea was quickly losing whatever credibility it had, but it still had some with the general American public. For my part, I argued that if Saddam had a biochemical arsenal, he would have used it in the first hours of the war. The best time to attack with WMDs would have been when American and British troops were massed on the frontier in Kuwait. Iraq was facing an immanent threat of attack; if Saddam actually had weapons and used them, it would have been, in the proper sense of the term, a preemptive strike. He would have been within his rights, although it would have proved the case against him.

[saskatoon]

142. Cross your fingers

Good advice for as pointed out these people are not new to this. They are smart,sly powerful people with endless money resources to tempt people to change their testimony amd they are above all RUTHLESS and will do anything required to get the job done so beware!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

101. But this is the first time they've faced a grand jury, a very determined..

...prosecutor, and judges willing to push ahead with the case.

Additionally, the corporate masters of the mainstream media have apparently decided that the NeoCons need to be either removed from office or rendered ineffectual. They are NOT happy with the economy, and they are not happy to have also been lied to about the reaons for going into Iraq.

[janx]

117. And they no longer have any reason to push the war.

It is no longer profitable to do so.

[Im with Rosey]

145. This is exactly what infuriates me the most!

I am so angry that the odds are in karl's favor that he will get out of this, just like every other things these a$$hats have done. Nothing ever sticks.

[Massachusetts]

172. True, true, true, don't uncork the champagne.

[brentspeak]

11. I'm glad this is from David Corn

He's a pretty reliable source. But stranger things have happened...let's hope this holds.

[Duer 157099]

12. Is this it?

Is this it?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek/

Matt Cooper's Source
What Karl Rove told Time magazine's reporter
By Michael Isikoff
Newsweek

July 18 issue - It was 11:07 on a Friday morning, July 11, 2003, and Time magazine correspondent Matt Cooper was tapping out an e-mail to his bureau chief, Michael Duffy. "Subject: Rove/P&C," (for personal and confidential), Cooper began. "Spoke to Rove on double super secret background for about two mins before he went on vacation..." Cooper proceeded to spell out some guidance on a story that was beginning to roil Washington. He finished, "please don't source this to rove or even WH " and suggested another reporter check with the CIA.

(snip)

In a brief conversation with Rove, Cooper asked what to make of the flap over Wilson's criticisms. NEWSWEEK obtained a copy of the e-mail that Cooper sent his bureau chief after speaking to Rove. (The e-mail was authenticated by a source intimately familiar with Time's editorial handling of the Wilson story, but who has asked not to be identified because of the magazine's corporate decision not to disclose its contents.) Cooper wrote that Rove offered him a "big warning" not to "get too far out on Wilson." Rove told Cooper that Wilson's trip had not been authorized by "DCIA"—CIA Director George Tenet—or Vice President Dick Cheney. Rather, "it was, KR said, wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd issues who authorized the trip." Wilson's wife is Plame, then an undercover agent working as an analyst in the CIA's Directorate of Operations counterproliferation division. (Cooper later included the essence of what Rove told him in an online story.) The e-mail characterizing the conversation continues: "not only the genesis of the trip is flawed an suspect but so is the report. he implied strongly there's still plenty to implicate iraqi interest in acquiring uranium fro Niger... "

Nothing in the Cooper e-mail suggests that Rove used Plame's name or knew she was a covert operative. Nonetheless, it is significant that Rove was speaking to Cooper before Novak's column appeared; in other words, before Plame's identity had been published. Fitzgerald has been looking for evidence that Rove spoke to other reporters as well. "Karl Rove has shared with Fitzgerald all the information he has about any potentially relevant contacts he has had with any reporters, including Matt Cooper," Luskin told NEWSWEEK.

[stepnw1f]

13. EXPOSED: Crooked Republicans Dressed as Angels

Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr., and finally Bush jr = CON MEN!

Republican Voter = 0

DUH...

:patriot:

[Writer]

15. If this is the case, Newsweek sure as hell got their revenge.

And good for them after being duped by the jackasses in this administration on their Guantanamo Bay story.

It's like a hard left hook right into the gut of this disgusting group of men and women. I hope several more follow. Poetic justice will never have a better definition than this.

I keep remembering how much political mileage they gained over the bodies of 3,000 dead, Rove being the mastermind behind that pernicious operation.

Go to Hades, Karl, where Satan and Saddam are awaiting their threesome with you.

Writer.

[bklyncowgirl]

21. Note that this story is by Michael Isakoff

It must have been very soul satisfying for him, don't you think?

[Writer]

115. Heck, yeah.

Rove never was this "boy genius." Rove is nothing more than a political hack and deserves to be strung up on an oak tree and have cat turds thrown at him. He is such a low human being.

Keep going, Michael. You'll find your day in Heaven.

[CJCRANE]

16. "double super secret background"

Certainly makes it clear that Plame was covert and meant to stay that way.

[deacon]

17. If they weren't trying to manipulate the intelligence on iraq they

wouldn't have had to do this. I think this also ties in with the DSM's/

[aquart]

19. That's his quibble? He didn't say her name?

"it was, KR said, wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd issues who authorized the trip."

He also didn't say she was covert. HOWEVER, he said she works "on wmd issues"??????????????????????? So he KNEW she worked in an area of acute national security. He knew that. And his argument is that he's innocent because HE DIDN'T BOTHER TO CHECK WHETHER MENTIONING HER JOB WAS AN ISSUE OF NATIONAL SECURITY? That's his claim to innocence????

You know what I DON'T get? Why would it matter who sent him to check on the Niger story? Was the story true or not? Rove always muddies the water with side garbage that doesn't affect the TRUTH of the story.

[alcuno]

40. Who told Karl?

Or did Karl go looking for information he could use to discredit Wilson? If that's what he was doing, while on the government payroll, isn't that a crime?

[janx]

73. Yes indeed it is. His identification of a CIA agent alone is

a crime, whether or not he actually used her name.

[johnfunk]

65. Plame's CIA company, Brewster Jennings, researched petrobusiness...

... as a partial cover for their efforts to stop WMd proliferation.

The Misadministration's attempt to smear Wilson by outing his wife, a NOC (non-official cover) with the CIA just two steps down the food chain from George Tenet, was of immeasurable help to the islamic republic of Iran and the People's Republic of North Korea.

What DID the Popular Wartime Prezznit know/ and WHEN did he know it?

[Melodybe]

22. MSNBC/Newsweek: Rove IS Matt Cooper's source!!!!

Here:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek

As usual their article completely sucks and is as uninformative as possible, but it sure as fuck does confirm that Karl Rove is a traitorous POS and he is under investigation by Fitzgerald.

Now here is a well written article that connects all the dots for you.

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=13546

And her is the link to Miller saying that "I won't testify. The risks are too great. The government is too powerful."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/07/national/main707048.shtml

Send these three to everyone you know.

Enjoy the moment, savour it, lap it up with a spoon.

Love you guys,

Melodybe

[truthisfreedom]

23. tokyo rove is going down, baby!

bye bye rovie! hope you like prison food! it's mostly expired garbage, turdblossum.

[ClintonTyree]

25. Presidential pardon forthcoming.............

georgie couldn't function without his brain, Rove is not going to prison. On the contrary, he'll get the Medal of Freedom and a promotion.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

94. Even his fellow GOPers won't stand for that.

[joeunderdog]

157. Even Shrub would have trouble "backing his man" on this.

It's damn near treason and flies in the face of his whole PatriotACT/Save the Country platform. He'd be married to this in a catastrophic way. He'd be better to accept the resignation and say "See... I'll do anything to protect our wonderful country."

[gatorboy]

24. "I won't testify. The risks are too great. The government is too powerful.

Chilling words....

[SHRED]

27. Yeah...

well maybe that explains why Miller was such a tool-cheerleader leading to the Iraq invasion. She is right where she belongs. She isn't protecting some valuble whistle blower. She is covering (cowering) for a crime against our country.

[janx]

98. Miller knows something

that Cooper does not.

[johnfunk]

111. Judy Miller ratfucked Fitzgerald, killed his investigation into terror $

Lest we forget,

Fitzgerald had been investigating three Islamic charities accused of supporting terrorism -- the Holy Land Foundation, the Global Relief Foundation, and the Benevolence International Foundation. But just before his investigators could swoop in with warrants, two of the charities in question got wind of what was coming and, apparently, were able to destroy a good deal of evidence.

What tipped them off were calls from two reporters at the New York Times who'd been leaked information about the investigation by folks at the White House.

One of those two reporters was Judy Miller.

Ruh-roh!
Can
you
say
TREASON?

[janx]

121. YIKES.

No wonder she doesn't want to talk.

[joeunderdog]

159. I guess you have immunity if you commit treason as a reporter.

That whole 1st ammendment thing is a bunch of crap in this case. It's criminal what's happening here.

[ixion]

28. the government she lied for, shilled for, wrote propaganda for is too

powerful. Yeah, right, whatvever, Judith.

I believe in protecting a source. Certainly this case is a paradox, but my feeling she is not serving journalism's best interest in this case, but the interest of PNAC.

[NYdemocrat089]

84. I thought the same exact thing when I read that.

"I won't testify. The risks are too great. The government is too powerful."

Very scary.:scared:

[AndyTiedye]

169. That Should be the Headline of the Article!

"I won't testify. The risks are too great. The government is too powerful."

Miller is refusing to testify because her fear of the BFEE is obviously greater than her fear of being sent to prison.

That is most certainly news, and very bad news at that.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[splat@14]

45. Hope this works better than the DSM to put a dent in this administration!

[wookie294]

47. Kick this mutha !!

:toast:

Time to party!

[Jawja]

76. Well I'm glad to see

that Michael Isikoff is on this story. He was riding real high after breaking the Monica Lewinsky thing. At least he is being non-partisan in his reporting.

Kinda sweet to see him hitting the White House back with this after he was chastised for reporting the TRUTHFUL Korans in the toilet story.

:evilgrin: :popcorn: :applause:

[damntexdem]

113. If Rove did tell Cooper, and Cooper will testify to it, ...

that will be big. Even if Rove didn't say the name, saying something like "Wilson's wife," that is still knowingly revealing. Now, whether or not Rove can be prosecuted is another matter -- but the intent to prosecute Rove is certainly one explanation of why Fitzgerald would have held onto Cooper and Miller as he has.

Then, it would be on to: who gave the info to Rove?

[Ravy]

118. What they all want you to forget....

is that Wilson got the story right.

There is a controversy about who authorized the trip, but there is NO controversy that Wilson was dead on in his findings.

When the WH says it was just trying to prevent Time from printing a "false" story they are referring to the controversy over the origins of the trip. They (RWers) don't like to point that out.

[cornermouse]

29. Something's wrong with this.

Why would Rove give Cooper permission to identify his source?

[truthisfreedom]

30. how did a copy of the email get leaked? i hope it's not Rathergate again.

it would make me very angry not to see tokyo rove frogmarched up and down Pennsylvania Ave.

[cornermouse]

37. Sooner or later, I guess we'll find out.

Unless they declare this "national security" as well. (A little dry humor there)

[bklyncowgirl]

35. Maybe it was coming out anyway.

Getting it out in the media before the DA comes out with his report allows them to blunt the effect of have it be a surprise.

[cornermouse]

36. Certainly a possibility, but Rove always seems to have an

angle and this angle appears rather weak. At first look, not typical of Rove.

[goclark]

72. Not typical at all

If anything, he would get Scottie or some other Clown to announce that the emperor and his court would NEVER leak anything to any news agency. If they had anything to say they would "say it publicly to the Amercan people."

Something is fishy.

[janx]

79. Exactly. n/t

[KnaveRupe]

38. Simple.

The documents that Time released implicated Rove. If Rove DIDN'T release Cooper, then it would be obvious that ROVE was making Cooper and Miller go to jail to cover his bloated ass.

By releasing Cooper to speak, but not Miller, he makes it look like there's another leaker out there BESIDES him, who has more of a need to hide. He feels that he can spin away his conversations with Cooper which were going to come out anyways.

The more he can create confusion, the more opportunities he creates for the RW Propaganda engine to spin a rationalization that the sheeple will buy. For example: "Obviously Rove did nothing wrong - otherwise, why would Rove give Cooper permission to identify his source?" :)

[reprobate]

89. The point seems to be that she is scared.

She said she's afraid of the consequences and this government is too powerful, implying there's no place to hide if she reveals what she knows. That means that anyone who ever accused the misadministration of disposing of those who tried to go against them is backed up by Miller.

[Skwmom]

39. Because he wants to give the impression he has nothing to hide.

That he did not commit a crime. I don't think this article is bad news at all for Rove.

[zanne]

42. Because Rove knows that nothing will happen to him.

Nothing happened to Bush when he lied to Congress; why should his political advisor even break a sweat?..

[johnfunk]

66. Why would Rove give Cooper permission to identify his source?

Maybe because he knew that someone had leaked the Rove-Cooper missives.

Rove's been acting awfully like the target of a criminal investigation of late. The nod to let Cooper talk is a ploy to make it seem he's not involved in a coverup.

But it's too late.

Cue the March of the Frogs. Ribbit, ribbit...

[Shakespeare]

178. I've been wondering about that. Was "permission" given sarcastically?

Or angrily? The comment that the waiver was given "in dramatic fashion" makes me wonder how it was given. It's never been said that it wasn't given grudgingly or angrily--and in fact, that strikes me as quite Rove's style, as he's quite the vindictive, vicious little prick.

[janx]

77. Because he knew it would come out anyway, probably.

Once emails were turned over as evidence, there was no hiding it.

[dooner]

100. because KR's line of defense is already set...

He's in the trap and he's trying to adjust his suit.

The news about his role with Cooper was already out of the bag due to Time's turnover of Cooper's notes. Obviously Karl was Cooper's source. BUT, Karl has a defense as we have noted: he didn't say her name, and he didn't say her exact job, in fact he could argue that he didn't exactly know what she did in the CIA. So it might look better to the judge for him to save Cooper from jail. Makes him look slightly less BAD, once it all comes out.

But Judith Miller must certainly hold an important key. She either is a confirming source, or got more info from another source.

Karl didn't have the clearance to know any of this... except I suppose he can "fairly" say that he asked Dick Cheney and George Tenet, and both denied sending Wilson to Niger. You probably wouldn't need a security clearance to learn that bit.

Does anyone recall another reporter at the time, claiming they called the CIA for confirmation/denial of the Plame name and that the CIA didn't say what they should have said... they should have warned the reporter that revealing the name would be illegal, but they didn't?

[leftchick]

31. A "messy case"?!

~snip~

Fitzgerald is known as a tenacious, thorough prosecutor. He refused to comment, and it is not clear whether he is pursuing evidence that will result in indictments, or just tying up loose ends in a messy case. But the Cooper e-mail offers one new clue to the mystery of what Fitzgerald is probing—and provides a glimpse of what was unfolding at the highest levels as the administration defended a part of its case for going to war in Iraq.


Don't go too deep here Isikoff! :mad:

[janx]

119. I don't think Isikoff understands that this isn't just part of

Bushco's case. The Wilson/Plame matter is at the very heart of all of the BS pieces of "evidence" that Bushco trumped up for the war. If there were any two people in better position to know and be horrified at what Bushco was attempting to do, it would be they.

[Maine-ah]

41. linky no worky....

[OKNancy]

44. It's working fine for me

?

[NVMojo]

43. the ratbastard is stinking to high heaven or is it low hell??

[dave29]

48. "implied strongly..."

"implied strongly there's still plenty to implicate iraqi interest in acquiring uranium fro Niger..."

still plenty? Like what, pray tell?

[Jack Rabbit]

57. That was in July 2003

They were still trying to take that position. It wasn't any more credible then than it is now.

[cap]

49. Maybe Karl is thinking Miller will take the rap for him

Maybe Miller knew Palme. I wonder if Karl could have released Palme's name without explicitly stating she was an agent. Maybe it was Miller who connected the dots without Rove saying so (yet knowing that Rove would want this to be done).

[fishnfla]

106. It think there is something to this

she was working the wmd beat, she may have known and spilled the beans. maybe thats why you get the fearful quote from her too

[TacticalPeek]

50. Rove has caught it! He's caught the WHANGDEPOOTENAWAH!

WHANGDEPOOTENAWAH, n.
In the Ojibwa tongue, disaster; an unexpected affliction that strikes hard.

Should you ask me whence this laughter,
Whence this audible big-smiling,
With its labial extension,
With its maxillar distortion
And its diaphragmic rhythmus
Like the billowing of an ocean,
Like the shaking of a carpet,
I should answer, I should tell you:
From the great deeps of the spirit,
From the unplummeted abysmus
Of the soul this laughter welleth
As the fountain, the gug-guggle,
Like the river from the canon,
To entoken and give warning
That my present mood is sunny.
Should you ask me further question --
Why the great deeps of the spirit,
Why the unplummeted abysmus
Of the soule extrudes this laughter,
This all audible big-smiling,
I should answer, I should tell you
With a white heart, tumpitumpy,
With a true tongue, honest Injun:
Karl Rove, he has Caught It,
Caught the Whangdepootenawah!

Is't the sandhill crane, the shankank,
Standing in the marsh, the kneedeep,
Standing silent in the kneedeep
With his wing-tips crossed behind him
And his neck close-reefed before him,
With his bill, his william, buried
In the down upon his bosom,
With his head retracted inly,
While his shoulders overlook it?
Does the sandhill crane, the shankank,
Shiver grayly in the north wind,
Wishing he had died when little,
As the sparrow, the chipchip, does?
No 'tis not the Shankank standing,
Standing in the gray and dismal
Marsh, the gray and dismal kneedeep.
No, 'tis peerless Karl Rove,
Realizing that he's Caught It,
Caught the Whangdepootenawah!


(Apologies to Ambrose Bierce.)
:)

[Bent Corner]

51. Couldn't Bush just PARDON Rove for any crimes he may have committed?

[berni_mccoy]

67. Not for treason...

The political backlash of that would be too severe.

For perjury, yes, he could. But he couldn't keep Rove in his official position.

[NYdemocrat089]

87. Wouldn't that backfire

and cause people to get really, really pissed?

[janx]

110. YES, it would.

It would be ridiculous, and I'd love it, because by that time people would understand exactly what Bushco did in order to get us to attack and occupy Iraq.

[kentuck]

54. It appears Rove gave permission to Cooper to name source after...

Cooper had already made the deal with the special prosecutor, so it didn't matter much if he gave his permission or not, it was already a done deal. Perhaps he wanted to give the appearnce of "cooperating"?

[berni_mccoy]

68. Ah, that explains it

There were some other theories as to why he gave permission, but this explanation seems quite reassuring.

[Writer]

116. It sounds like Cooper forced Rove's hand

Sometimes it is just what it is. Nothing more to read into it.

[Jack Rabbit]

55. For reference: Cooper's story in Time magazine (7.17.2003)

From Time Magazine
Dated July 17, 2003

A War on Wilson?
Inside the Bush Administration's feud with the diplomat who poured cold water on the Iraq-uranium connection
by Matthew Cooper, Massimo Calabresi and John F. Dickerson

Has the Bush Administration declared war on a former ambassador who conducted a fact-finding mission to probe possible Iraqi interest in African uranium? Perhaps.

Former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson raised the Administration's ire with an op-ed piece in The New York Times on July 6 saying that the Administration had "twisted" intelligence to "exaggerate" the Iraqi threat. Since then Administration officials have taken public and private whacks at Wilson, charging that his 2002 report, made at the behest of U.S. intelligence, was faulty and that his mission was a scheme cooked up by mid-level operatives. George Tenet, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, took a shot at Wilson last week as did ex-White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. Both contended that Wilson's report on an alleged Iraqi effort to purchase uranium from Niger, far from undermining the president's claim in his State of the Union address that Iraq sought uranium in Africa, as Wilson had said, actually strengthened it. And some government officials have noted to TIME in interviews, (as well as to syndicated columnist Robert Novak) that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, is a CIA official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. These officials have suggested that she was involved in her husband's being dispatched Niger to investigate reports that Saddam Hussein's government had sought to purchase large quantities of uranium ore, sometimes referred to as yellow cake, which is used to build nuclear devices.

Read more.

[Kagemusha]

56. I see Rove's game now.

He says, "I never SAID her name, I just said she was the wife of Joe Wilson. That's not saying her name."

I sure as hell would argue in a court of law it is giving and disclosing her identity, which I think is plenty enough

[sendero]

58. I sincerely hope..

... that is his defense, because that won't fly.

The issue is not "naming" it is "identifying", and citing the spouse of a person is indeed "identifying".

[janx]

70. You're right--it won't.

Let him try it.

[Seabiscuit]

59. Ribbit! Ribbit! Ribbit!

[lateo]

60. Stick a fork in KKKarl...he is done.

I hope he enjoys his stay in Federal "pound him in the ass" prison.

[Renew Deal]

91. Federal pound me in the ass prison

[bitchkitty]

103. Love your Initech ID -

that was probably one of the funniest movies I ever saw!

[6000eliot]

151. From what I hear, I think he'd like that.

[lateo]

174. True...

Maybe they will put him in isolation.

[okasha]

62. The thing to remember about Grand Juries

is that anything that's allowed to go public before indictments come down is 5-10% or less of what's actually going on. If this much of the investigation is being published in Newsweek, Time or other sources, there's a whole lot more to come.

Rove had to give Cooper permission to testify. The whole White House staff signed waivers of confidentiality back at the beginning of the investigation. That means that technically, Cooper already had permission both in ethics and in law, though the necessity for a second release on top of that shows just how much of a sham the "waivers" were. It also means that Miller has permission to talk, so there's something else at work in her case.

[txindy]

129. I have to wonder if Miller's jailing is over something other than a source

It may have little to do with Novak's article, at all.

I'm very interested in finding out just what Fitzgerald is after with her. Whatever it is, she's decided jail is far better than talking. Which says a lot right there and absolutely nothing about her ethics.

[doodadem]

63. I find it just as disturbing

that the admin is saying Wilson was not on an "authorized" trip to Africa. Does anyone know the rest of the story behind that? They're saying Plame actually sent Wilson to Africa to investigate?

[janx]

71. Desperate freeper justification and spin:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1440027/posts

[Jack Rabbit]

83. The usual denial from people who should know better

:boring:

[janx]

86. When political partisanship gets that bad--to the point

of willful ignorance about the security of the nation--we have a problem.

[Jack Rabbit]

90. There's always going to be a lot of that

In a two-way race, any major party presidential nominee can always count on getting forty percent of the vote.

[berni_mccoy]

75. So much for the "Multiple Sources" theory

Glad to see that fully dismissed...

As is the theory that Rove can denie culpability because a reporter may have given HIM Plame's idenity... I new that was total B.S.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

97. "Fully dismissed" by whom? Rove is the tip of the iceberg, IMHO....

...Rove worked in concert with other senior White House staffers in a group called the White House Iraq Group (WHIG), and they reported to Cheney and Herr Busch. When this story first broke, both Cheney and Herr Busch lawyered up, and they have both testified to the Grand Jury. The BIG question is what did they say, and what did they leave out?

Newsweek is reporting on what they THINK they have been able to confirm at this point in time. Only the Grand Jury knows the FULL story.

The NeoCons are trying everything at this point in time to keep Cheney and Bush out of legal harm's way...and I don't believe they're going to succeed.

[joeunderdog]

163. Methinks the WH got greedy after they laundered their first "hot tip"

thru Miller on the Islamic charity scandal. Too easy? Maybe they went back to the well too many times.

I can't believe the Bushco Teflon has lasted this long, but this will be a real challenge now.

[DubyaSux]

80. How about Judith Miller?

Does it make it more clear she is hiding a crime instead of protecting a source?

What is she hiding? Is she hiding the direct evidence that ties the loose ends together?

I'm very disappointed Newsweek didn't even bring this up.

[janx]

81. One thing at a time...

They'll get to it.

[Jack Rabbit]

88. We don't know

Given Ms. Miller's history as a reporter, we should wonder if she bothered to check any "facts" Rove might have given her.

I don't know what Fitzgerald thinks she's got that he needs. Another valid question is: Does she herself know what she's got? After all, stenographers don't have to think about what they're writing.

[shraby]

104. If Fitz has enough to bring charges with

Cooper's testimony, when it gets to court he can call Miller as a witness then she'll have to talk or take the 5th.

[janx]

108. When is Cooper supposed to testify? n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

114. How could she take the 5th?

She's been jailed for contempt of court. No one suspects her of crime. She can't take the fifth. She can't even be offered immunity to make her talk.

[janx]

120. So, ultimately, she has to talk? n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

122. Technically, yes

Otherwise, they couldn't jail her for contempt.

[notadmblnd]

124. Depending on what cooper testifies to

little Judy could indeed be charged with a crime. And if that happens, she will be forced to testify or take the 5th. Get it?

[Jack Rabbit]

126. Right now, she hasn't been charged

There is no reason to believe she will be charged with anything. It is doubtful that Cooper, who works for Time magazine, knows anything that implicate a reporter from The New York Times.

She is in contempt of court and, assuming she keeps her silence, will be released when the grand jury ends it term in October.

[notadmblnd]

131. we don't have any reason to believe she won't

What if it wasn't Rove who gave Cooper permission? What if it was Judy? I mean it would explain why she didn't receive permission to talk. We don't know what the GJ knows and all we can do is speculate. Judy is in jail now for refusing to talk, she is hiding something and depending on what Cooper testifies to, obstructing justice would be the least of the offences she could be charged with.

[Jack Rabbit]

133. Oh, yes, she's hiding something, all right

She's hiding the identity of a confidential source. She believes she's honor bound to do that. There's nothing unusual about it. All journalists believe this is part of their professional ethics. Being threatened with jail for protecting a source is almost a badge of honor with them.

It would be unusual for a reporter to be part of a criminal conspiracy. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd prefer to speculate on the more mundane possibilities first.

Normally, there is a practical point to a journalist protecting his source. If Bob Woodward had to reveal the identity of Deep Throat to Archibald Cox or Leon Jaworski, Mark Felt would never have spoken to Woodward and we probably would never have uncovered Watergate and the related crimes that brought Nixon down. This case is quite different.

Now, having said that, if there is a case where things have been turned upside down, it's this one. The problem is that we have a criminal regime and the reporters' sources for what goes on inside the regime are the criminals themselves. What's worse is that the stories they're gathering aren't that will inform the public, but the criminals' self-serving versions which are designed to disinform. Karl Rove is certainly not Deep Throat; if anything, he's Bob Haldeman and Charles Colson rolled into one.

So, here's one ethical issue: Does the journalist have an ethical obligation to protect a source who is using him to disseminate lies?

Imagine this scenario: the journalist interviews someone about a recent murder. He promises his source confidentiality. The source confesses to the crime. Is the journalist ethically bound to maintain the confidence? I believe most journalists would say not in that case.

[notadmblnd]

143. I agree

If a journalist is protecting someone revealing a crime, then the journalist has the moral right to protect their source. But I also think if that journalist chooses to protect the person who committed the crime (when a known crime has been committed and is being investigated), then they are involved in obstructing justice and are under no moral obligation to keep their mouth shut.

[janx]

123. Keep

this







kicked

[txindy]

127. I've always felt that KKKarl would eventually overreach his abilities

He's great (i.e., evil) on a local, even statewide, more manageable scale. But national? Too many variables.

Then there's that massive ego for which his body is obviously inflating to match. And it still has a loooooong way to go.

[janx]

128. Howard Dean has maintained

for quite some time that Bushco would eventually destroy itself. That time may well be near.

[txindy]

130. Then I agree with Howard

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that I think that eventually these sociopaths are going to turn on each other to save themselves. They aren't exactly principled 'people' in any way, shape, or form.

As an aside: The more I hear and read about Howard Dean, the more I like him. Now I'm exceptionally happy that he's the DNC Chairman.

[janx]

132. It's a matter of character. And after all of the despicable

things Bushco has done, you're probably right. They very well may start turning on each other. They may even be beginning to do so now!

[joeunderdog]

164. Embarrassing post....

Didn't a psychic gets some print here on DU when she predicted right around the election that Bush would get in office but that his office would be the subject of a devestating scandal? I'm having deja vu. Anyone rememer this? I remember thinking that it could never happen because they had the media and the courts in their pockets. This kind of anti-American crime has true scandal potential for the WH, well beyond the usual shit that never sticks.

[TacticalPeek]

134. Kick.

[skip fox]

135. Other Rovian nightmares . . .

I'll bet there's a charge reflecting the fact that he coordinated the calls since there were at least 6 initial calls (corresponding to the 6 contacted reporters) by at least 2 different callers (one release Cooper, the other did not do so with Miller), which means Rove likely ran the conspiracy by directing the calls and preparing the confirmations (of which threre were at least 3: Novak, Miller, Cooper). It also means there will be more than one indictment of the administration's top officials. Read on.

Scenario:

In order to make sure the story leaked properly, discrediting Wilson's yellow-cake findings (concerning Iraq's supposed activity to acquire materials for nuclear bombs) by implying he and his wife, Valerie Plame, had an agenda against the current administration since before the Iraq War, a single person talented in this realm would be very likely have to coordinate the calling. (Of course he could have made calls as well.) He would insure, for instance, that neither of the 2 or more primary sources should call the other's initial contact(s) (that would seem too eager, perhaps a dirty trick). In addition, 4-5 others would have to know the story was true in order to confirm it, and they had to be encouraged to do so.

Who better to coordinate and a historic master of the odious activity of defaming an opponent, Karl Rove? Perhaps Cheney (who would have felt responsibility in such a matter since it was the behest of his office that the CIA sent Wilson to Niger) used his clearance to discover this information and brought it to Rove at a meeting of the White House Iraq Group (see snippy's beautiful post in DU, link at bottom of this post). Then Rove would go into high gear, doing what he does best (worst). He coordinated the callings, made sure there were the requisite secondary sources ready and willing to confirm (perhaps each having different details or a different slant to make it sound realistic and not a set-up).

Therefore, Rove may well be both a conspirator (a little RICO, anybody?), and the leaker of illegal information, AND we may have at least one other indictment handed down. Think of the possibilities! Rice, Cheney, Libby, Hughes (why the hell did she retire before?), Matalin, etc. Maybe even W. (But the more I think about it, I wonder how many real reporters wouldn't be suspicious of a call from Rove? He might be the primary source for the likes of Novak, but few others.)

How's that for "knowingly"??? He will have no way to plead innocent to having "knowlingly" revealed the name of a CIA undercover agent since he coordinated several in that very activity (i.e., it wasn't a slip of the tongue or inadvertant blunder).

But think about the above and then read snippy's lovely item backed up by a Washington Post article:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=142863&mesg_id=142952

[Jack Rabbit]

138. If Fitzgerald can prove that, it would make our day

It sounds like a good theory and your list of suspects is pretty much my list of suspects. I think this happened at a time when Karen Hughes was out of the loop, they really didn't trust Mary Matalin and it doesn't seem like Condi's style, but Cheney and Libby would be up for it.

No matter how suspicious of Rove a reporter might be, he would still be in Rove's power. Rove could tell the journalist to print what he wants printed if the journalist wants any future access of key White House personnel. That's one of the ways the Bush White House has tamed the press corps. This operation may not have been that crude; apparently the story was given to several reporters with the idea that one of them would run with it, as Robert Novak did.

On the other hand, this might be hard to prove.

[skip fox]

139. Substantively rich DU thread on Rove's role with hot links to

recent stories and even to this discussion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x137848

[WinkyDink]

140. Rove

Rove will NEVER turn on Bush, never, never, never.
He is a true believer, and perhaps even a man in love.
Gannon/Guckert, however, might.

[freeEarthLove]

148. omigod

he's going down

[Roland99]

149. It's all over but the sentencing!!

:woohoo:

[against all enemies]

152. Please take your reality pills. Rove nor anyone else in Bush's

Administration will go to jail over this. They are already spinning it. Rove won't even lose his job, little prick thay he is. I wish these bastards would get what they deserve, but there is no one going to push this investigation. The Justice Department won't, Fitzy won't and the Republican House and Senate won't. Nor will the White House either seeing Rove is in charge.

[wli]

170. scandal vs. influence

The fact info about their corruption is leaking like crazy is already a sign of a "rebellion" against them. What we can't do with PR the FBI et al are doing by exposing their corruption. This reduces their influence, and by so doing opens them up to further prosecution.

It's a matter of degree. If a president were seen murdering someone on national TV no one would bother waiting for an impeachment to incarcerate him. Now downgrade the crime from murder to treason, and the evidence from live TV to other incontrovertible evidence, and we more or less get the sort of affair we're seeing. The number of remaining supporters is inversely proportional to the quality of the body of evidence and the number of scandals. This, of course, assumes the judiciary isn't complicit in the affair. If it is, we're in extralegal territory and things get "ugly" like a banana republic.

All this only underscores the point that the government is neither for nor by the people, and we have absolutely no control of it. Bush is not being removed because he's corrupt or insane or immoral, but rather because he's incompetent, failing to serve the interests of his masters, and threatening to mire what was once a nicely profitable center for money laundering, narcotrafficking, and bid rigging in a currency crisis.

[Paula Sims]

154. Let's not do "the dance of joy" just yet. . .

Although I want to believe this is karma, I just don't know. The only thing we can hope is that the media is *horing the other way and when they smell a story, one that will have others "sticking out their necks" it will then hit the MSM. However, if this does turn out to be "the story", anyone wanna dance?

On an semi-unrelated note -- anyone notice the resemblance between Rove and Starr?? They never are in the same room at the same time -- are they??


Paula

:pals:

Edit: I meant Ken Starr, not Ringo!!

[Blaq Dem]

156. Can the Impeachment starts before the SCOTUS nominations?

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

160. WP: Bush aide Rove was Time reporter's source-Newsweek

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/10/AR2005071000758.html

Snip:
"It is illegal to knowingly reveal the identity of an undercover CIA agent."

"Although Rove has made statements about the Plame leak, he has never publicly acknowledged talking to any reporter about the CIA agent."

[ScamUSA.Com]

165. doesn't matter if he didn't use her name, he leaked her identity

[GetTheRightVote]

171. Great thread and informative as well, thank you

:kick:

[Roland99]

173. NBC's Today Show just covered this as a top headline!!

They did say that Rove claims to have never mentioned Plame by name but that he was the "secret source" for Matt Cooper and that "a few days later" Plame's name appeared in an article by Bob Novak.


Certainly the implication by NBC News is there.

[GoBlue]

176. Gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency, by rove

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend - but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

- Senior adviser to Bush Summer 2002, as told to Ron Suskind.

Search for it: http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/printer_101704A.shtml

[Oreegone]

177. Yeah Right

If they didn't give him the authority in Africa, but his wife did and she is a CIA agent, having to do with WMD's, wouldn't even a half wit figure she must really be in some position of awesome power....excuse me what shit. That said it doesn't matter whether he knew her position or not you can't go outing any CIA officer especially in a time of war, so now what is his lame argument? He has admitted guilt, whether the crazy bastard realizes it or not.

[skip fox]

179. Rove going down in Plames. Prob. at least 2 indictments.

One or more indictments for Rove is nearly certain. One or more indictments for one or more high-ranking administrative official is likely.

The logic is very simple:

If Rove acted alone he made at least SIX calls (six reporters were contacted). Repeatedly and deliberately telling national reporters at the least that the Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and "arranged" his trip to Niger shows he KNOWINGLY exposed her identity (it was far from a slip or even a lapse), whether or not he used her name or knew she was covert. In addition, if he was the only primary caller, he would have had to arrange for confirmation by at least one other administration official at least THREE times (for Novak, Cooper, and Miller). Therefore he CONSPIRED to expose a CIA official (since he knew the result of his leak would lead to exposure).

If Rove was the only primary source, however, that means he released Matt Cooper from his confidentiality agreement but he did not Judith Miller from hers. The logical reason is that his leak to her included a much more obvious case of illegal activity. Rove's hope, then, is that such a case will never be known. But with the national attention on the Plame matter and, especially, a tenacious and objective prosecutor tracking him down, Rove has little hope (especially with the fact that he had to have done this SIX times and arranged for at least one other to support his story THREE times).

But if Rove was one of at least two or more sources (which would explain why Cooper's released him but Miller's did not release hers), then it's far worse for him since he probably coordinated the entire leak with both planning and foresight (two elements which again indicate that he KNOWINGLY leaked Plame's identity).

Any administrative official originally realizing the Wilson-Plame-CIA link would immediately realize it could discredit Wilson, but much more importantly he would have known who to take the information to, the master of such discreditations (among so much else), Karl Rove. Rove would then insure that the leaks did not overlap and that at least FEW other officials could be counted upon who would readily confirm the information of the original sources (perhaps each having different details or a different slant to make it sound realistic and not a set-up), since he could not insure who the reporter would call for a confirmation.

How do you do ANY of this UNKNOWINGLY?????

Think of the possibilities! At least two indictments for Rove (leaking Plame and leading a conspiracy to leak) and likely indictments (leaking Plame) for other high administrative officials: Rice, Cheney, Libby, etc. Maybe even W.