(Bill) Clinton opposed to Iraq withdrawal deadline

[sabra]

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http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=fc529f5d-0abe-421a-0082-783e9bcc45f0&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

Clinton opposed to Iraq withdrawal deadline

ASPEN, Colo. (AP) - Former President Bill Clinton says setting deadline for a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq would aid terrorists trying to destroy a growing democracy.


"They are dying beside us in the service of what they hope will be an independent country," said Clinton, speaking at the 2005 Aspen Ideas Festival on Friday night.

"I wouldn't give it up yet. I'd stick in there and try to make it work. And I wouldn't set a deadline either. I think that's a mistake. If we set a deadline, (the terrorists) will believe all they have to do is wait. So unless you know you can take out all these insurgents coming in from other countries ... you shouldn't set a deadline, otherwise they will wait us out and it would be demoralizing for the Iraqis," Clinton said in a speech at the Aspen Ideas Festival.

He noted 58 percent of Iraqis voted in their national election, more than in some recent U.S. elections. "It's clearly a legitimate process and the people want it to work, so I think we can try to make it work," he said.


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[xultar]

.

:popcorn:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Thanks for fellating Bushco, Clinton

[CatWoman]

4. I really don't get him sometimes........

[blm]

14. The more I see the connex between BCCI, terrorism, Bushes and Bin Ladens,

the more I wonder why Clinton shut down further investigation.

I always let him off the hook because of his concern at the time for the collapse of the global economy if the depth of BCCI's criminality was revealed, but now I am certain that the world would have survived a few years of economic downturn easier than a BFEE agenda operating at full strength for years to come.

Sorry....but Kerry had it right and Clinton proved to be wrong....terrorism and ALL its funding should have been exposed back then BEFORE it took hold to be used as a manipulative tool by the BFEE and their international financiers and fascist cronies.

[MH1]

28. You got that right.

"terrorism and ALL its funding should have been exposed back then BEFORE it took hold to be used as a manipulative tool by the BFEE and their international financiers and fascist cronies."

Amen, brother. You see what this war is all about.

That said... putting a deadline on a troop withdrawal now is a very, very tricky matter. Personally I think there should be a withdrawal plan - but I don't think it should necessarily be published. Politicians who agree with me are in a tough rhetorical spot.

[Southsideirish]

19. I get him all the time - he is, was and always will be a republican.

And so is his wife.

[devinsgram]

25. As Mike Malloy says

"He is the best Republican president we ever had."

[stlsaxman]

42. So, did you save YOUR "Blue Dress", Bill?

... or did you have it dry-cleaned under pain of death?

[Deja Q]

44. Actually, Clinton was engaged in bushlicking.

:D

[Straight Shooter]

2. Did they implant a RW chip in his brain when he had the heart surgery?

Or is he just being "Slick" and setting things up all nice and convenient for Hillary to run?

:wtf:

[wellst0nev0ter]

32. Not Just Any Republican, An "Eisenhower Republican"

""We're Eisenhower Republicans here… We stand for lower deficits, free trade, and the bond market. Isn't that great?"

-Bill Clinton as quoted in The Agenda by Bob Woodward.

Wake me up when he learns he's a Democrat and not a Bush enabler.

[Vincardog]

3. I am sorry to see the Big Dog has started drinking the Kool Aid.

The US policies in the ME are the cause of Terrorism. aWoL MIHOP. Staying in Iraq guarantees endless resistance.

[leftchick]

5. uh bill?

STFU! :grr:

[OneBlueSky]

6. Clinton is part of the corporate oligarchy . . . always has been . . .

as is Hillary, btw . . .

[WhiteTara]

56. He likes the money

and the blow jobs

[mikita]

67. you got that right...

Peter Paul and Mary

When will they ever learn...

[liberalnurse]

7. He has yet to accept

Howard Dean....He can't let go of first place. Thats it in a nut shell. He needs to let go and facilitation the unification of the Party.

[KittyWampus]

36. Has Dean Called For Deadlines?

[Missy M]

8. He has been in support of the Iraq war since the beginning...

and I don't understand it. I admire him but he really disappoints me with his stand on this war. He sounds just like bush and crew and his new found friendship with poppy has me baffled. I think he needs some new ideas.

[ckramer]

12. Is the ten year embargo of Iraq Clinton's Iraq policy?

Clinton was wrong. He hand has Iraqis' children's blood too.

[Zorra]

9. I'll take you seriously when Chelsea is on the front lines, Bubba.

Send your daughter to get her face blown off or die in Iraq with the poor kids and we'll know you are sincere.

Until then...

....how many defense stocks are in your "portfolio"?

[elehhhhna]

10. He is so over. I'd much rather hear from Jimmy Carter.

[leesa]

11. No surprise here. The DLC is for war in the ME. They know we need the

oil and like the GOP, they are A-OK with stealing it. We've always stolen the riches and resources of the ME...go check out the British Museum.

[barbaraann]

13. I'm going to rethink my membership in the Democratic Party.

As someone who as virtually always voted Dem, donated hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to the party, and is currently an activist Dem, I just don't know if I can continue. Apparently, the Dems want to sacrifice my only child in an unjust war as much as the Republicans and I refuse to enable that sacrifice.

[Rose Siding]

17. Offically, the DNC has demanded clear goals and timetables from bush

I feel as you do, but I have hope that our continued input to the party will guide its positions. Clinton speaks for Clinton.

snip>
"Every day as Americans turn on their televisions and open their newspapers, they can see for themselves that the Bush Administration's rhetoric about the real situation in Iraq does not reflect the truth about the facts on the ground. The Iraqi insurgency has gotten stronger, reconstruction efforts lag behind and billions of dollars have been lost and still the President has not put forth a clear timetable of military and political goals, yet he continues to ignore these facts. It's time for President Bush to stop ignoring the facts, stop ignoring the concerns of the American people and parents of America, put forward a clear plan for success in Iraq.

"The President's failure to face the facts and his failure to lay out a plan have put our nation - and our troops - in greater danger. Our troops fighting in Iraq have the full support and eternal gratitude of the American people but what they need more than anything else right now is a long-awaited, realistic plan from their Commander-in-Chief."

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/06/radio_actuality.php

[barbaraann]

18. Here's something that expresses how I feel.

Published on Friday, April 29, 2005 by The Nation
Open Letter to Howard Dean
by Katrina vanden Heuvel

"Now that we're there, we're there and we can't get out," Democratic National Committee Chair Howard Dean told an audience of nearly 1,000 at the Minneapolis Convention Center on April 20th. "The president has created an enormous security problem for the US where none existed before. But I hope the president is incredibly successful with his policy now that he's there."

I agree with Dean--a political figure I admire-- that the war in Iraq has put the US in greater danger. But the question facing us today is who will speak for the millions of Americans who believe that continued occupation increases the danger? Who will speak for the millions who believe that the US has gotten bogged down in Iraq? Who will speak out against the (majority of the) Democratic Party's silent consent to the Bush Administration's Iraq war policies? Who will speak out about the wrenching human and economic costs of occupation? Who will speak out in support of a clear and honorable exit strategy? Who will make a clear, unequivocal declaration that the US will not maintain permanent military bases in Iraq?

For those who believe that America needs to change course, Tom Hayden's open letter to Howard Dean appealing to him not to take the antiwar majority of the Democratic Party for granted is an eloquent and important document. Read it, share it. - Katrina vanden Heuvel
...
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0429-23.htm

[Theduckno2]

52. You made the point that needs to be made here.

This is about framing the issue and numbskull Clinton fell into their trap. This can't be about deadlines, it has to be about goals, timetables and maybe target dates. Everybody hates to be subjected to a deadline, especially one with unclear goals. But a target date with specific timetables and goals is very doable. We CAN'T be sucked into debating deadlines and we have to stay on message about goals and timetables!! Timetables can be adjusted if goals are reached sooner or later than schedule. By the way what would be so bad about the insurgency lying low, waiting us out? We could shift into higher gear on infrastructure improvements and maybe a lot of their support would dry up as the water began to flow again. :rant:

[Rose Siding]

15. Well, *that's* depressing

He just hung a lot of his party out to dry.

[hopein08]

16. Lost in translation

What Bill Clinton is really saying is...

Please, Republicans, vote for Hillary!! We're (I'm mean she's) with you 210%!!!

I was 11 when he ran for President in 1992. My mom hadn't voted since she voted for Carter (in '76, I think) and I convinced her to register in order to vote for him. Now, for her, the man can do no wrong! Apparently I was just a silly little kid who now knows better. I hope.

[barb162]

20. has he gone over to the Dark Side, hanging around with Bush Sr....

[oneold1-4u]

21. The rough and the tough

It doesn't seem like many democrats are tough enough to get going!
Things have been rough for Dems for nearly 5 years! Don't be stepping on anyone who is tough enough to at least THINK!
Where we are today in the war against radical islamic militants cannot be simply set aside! 9/11 was the largest strike and it cost the destruction of two militarist islamic countries. They now consider that smaller strikes, killing and maiming fewer in hundreds of different strikes will simply give them more attention from the liberal side who believe they are only wanting recognition for their islamic faith. If every serious Democrat would take the time to study about the history of the ME and Islamic traditions, they would begin to understand that their only progress has been accomplished with destruction and fear! Don't ever think that they will just seek a peaceful means of recognition!
There was certainly no real intelligent plan on the part of this administration for going to Afghanistan or Iran. We do need some qualified people who can think, learn, and act with much more responsibility if islamic aggression is to be stopped!

[Frederik]

33. Oh, I'm sure you have

"studied about the history of the ME and Islamic traditions".

"their only progress has been accomplished with destruction and fear!"

:rofl:

Yeah, you must have been studying really hard. Studying the Weekly Standard perhaps? Are you perchance aware of the origin of the numbers you use (1,2,3 etc)? They were brought to Europe by the Arabs. Islam was an advanced civilization at a time when there wasn't a single real city in Europe.

[AndyTiedye]

35. "Going" Where? If You think a Crusade is a Good Idea You Go Fight It

It doesn't seem like many democrats are tough enough to get going!

Going where? You are sounding like you think the Crusade is a good idea.

Things have been rough for Dems for nearly 5 years!

It sucks getting robbed and murdered. We've been robbed 3 elections
in a row, and Wellstone and Carnahan were murdered.

Don't be stepping on anyone who is tough enough to at least THINK!

I think it's pretty obvious that what we are doing in Iraq
is making things worse for everyone, including us.

Where we are today in the war against radical islamic militants cannot be simply set aside!

But Bush** DID set it aside to invade Iraq, the most secular country
in the Middle East.

9/11 was the largest strike

Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.

and it cost the destruction of two militarist islamic countries.

What is the second one? Iraq probably qualifies as a destroyed
country by now, and the people might be getting a bit militaristic
about that by now, but they were in no way a "militaristic islamic
country" when we invaded them!

They now consider that smaller strikes, killing and maiming fewer in hundreds of different strikes will simply give them more attention

Who is "they" and who are "they" working for? These things always
seem to happen at a time that is maximally convenient for Bush**.

from the liberal side who believe they are only wanting recognition for their islamic faith. If every serious Democrat would take the time to study about the history of the ME and Islamic traditions, they would begin to understand that their only progress has been accomplished with destruction and fear! Don't ever think that they will just seek a peaceful means of recognition!

The fanatics won't, just as the fanatics here won't.

The way to deal with that is to strengthen international cooperation
and treat it as a police matter when fanatics become violent.

That could have been done, even in Afghanistan, but Bush** wanted
"regime change" because of the pipeline deal.

Iraq was innocent, but Bush** wanted to invade them no matter how
many lies he had to make up to justify it, as we now know.

There was certainly no real intelligent plan on the part of this administration for going to Afghanistan or Iran. We do need some qualified people who can think, learn, and act with much more responsibility if islamic aggression is to be stopped!

We need to stop the Crusade. We don't just need more competent
people running it. Bush** and his people are stirring up hatred
against us on purpose. What else can explain Abu Ghraib?

[PsN2Wind]

39. In your extensive studies

of the Middle East and Islamic countries, did you happen to note that Iraq had zero to do with 9-11 and was the singular example of a secular nation in that part of the world? Hardly a "militaristic,Islamic, country" then, but probably will be now.. Oh, and toughness is not exemplified by someone else fighting in your stead. That is more of an example of the Chickenhawks that started this mess.

[AlwaysQuestion]

63. Think? Is that what you said? Nah!

Islamic aggression? What are you doing here? If you weren't a progressive before you hit this board, have you learned nothing since you've arrived?

The west has plundered the ME for its oil and only a few of their citizens have reaped the rewards. A well fed, well clothed, well housed and well educated people rarely if ever decide to turn to terrorism. The U.S. and Great Britain et al had absolutely no moral authority to invade an already downtrodden country who posed absolutely no threat to the U.S. And now, we have yet another country we have decimated beyond recognition with a fatality and injured rate that will breed terrorists like rats.

The problem with too many people is that they lack the imagination to be able to comprehend abject misery--they don't relate to it; they can't feel it; they have no idea what it's like. Couple that with the propaganda they so willingly sop up and voila we have someone like you. Wakey wakey. You and those like you who refuse to exercise your brain will be the downfall of us all

Clinton who I once held in semi-regard is a conniver and like most politicians, a polished liar. He is part of the problem as is anyone who supports imperialistic actions. Ultimately, it won't work. We human idiots seem to have learned absolutely nothing from history--we will fall on our own petard. You can count on it.

[FloridaPat]

22. Another person that didn't serve in the military.

[acmavm]

24. You are so right. He still apparently thinks war is fine as long as

someone else, or someone elses kids have to fight and die.

[lancdem]

23. I don't favor a deadline, either

But that doesn't mean I don't know Bush's Iraq policy is an absolute disaster.

[MaineDem]

26. A deadline...he doesn't like the idea of a DEADLINE

He also said: "The key thing is to put them (the Iraqis) in a position to defend themselves to protect their gains as quickly as possible. The more they are capable of defending themselves, the less it'll look like an American takeover, the less there'll be sympathy for terrorists coming in from the outside, and the more incentive there'll be for the various factions to join the government and be full participants," he said.

Not speaking for him, of course, but he didn't say he doesn't support the eventual withdrawal - just not setting a public deadline. That's not a stupid idea.

Flame away. :eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

27. But without a deadline, what's the incentive of Iraqis to go it alone?

It's like paying someone by the hour or paying them by the job. If you pay them by the hour, what's their incentive for doing the job quickly if they can string it along? I'm of course referring to those who take advantage of the situation.

The Iraqi police are clearly caught between a rock and a hard place. What is their position? Do they want a deadline?

[MH1]

30. Incentive? They want us GONE.

Don't they?

[jamesinca]

37. I don't agree with a deadline

I think a deadline would be foolish, insurgents would only have to stay a day longer. Now to set a plan in place ( which has not been done) to withdraw the troops should be done. To say 11/9/05 would be irresponsible, we have broken the place and not fixing it would be wrong. Not having a plan in place makes sure it stays broke. But a plan must be done in a timely fashion and the US must put a certain degree of pressure, to make sure that the plan is being implemented.

[okieinpain]

53. split, I agree with clinton, and I agree with most of you. things are

not going to quiet down over there until we leave. but if we set a deadline, the bombing will just get worse. bush has really screwed up, and we are now where his father said we would be if we invaded iraq.

[fob]

60. Deadline? I think they'd prefer a LIFEline.

[MH1]

29. I agree with you, kind of.

Like I said upthread, I'm all for a withdrawal plan. But I don't think it should necessarily be published.

I guarantee you if Kerry had taken office in January, we'd be seeing troops starting to be pulled out - but not a published timetable. Also though we would see an effort from Kerry to increase the overall size of the active military - to take the pressure off the Guard and Reserves, and the stop-loss troops - who are really, really being treated unfairly here. So some people on the left would be all pissed about the increase in the size of the military. But it would still be the right thing to do.

[blm]

59. Yes...you don't have to telegraph your plan with words if you are ACTING

wisely in the first place.

Kerry would be ACTING wisely and the military and the citizens would SEE it.

[Frederik]

31. And if you don't set a deadline, the terrorists

will believe... all they have to do is wait.

"So unless you know you can take out all these insurgents coming in from other countries ... you shouldn't set a deadline"

In other words, the troops stay until pigs fly.

[CityDem]

34. Calculated comment

Clinton does not open his mouth without first calculating the political impact of his statement. His job at this moment is to make Hillary appear to be more moderate/conservative and this statement seems to directed at that goal.

On Edit: correct spelling

[Writer]

43. Yup. Exactly. It ain't all ideology.

Politics is just that - politics. For some, at least. For many of us it entails ideology. For others it's a game. Rule #1 of that game is capturing power. Then you can do what you want.

[PsN2Wind]

38. Dare we say?

Clinton=Chickenhawk

[drduffy]

40. 'in with the new boss...'

'same as the old boss' . Think of GHWBush and Bill playing together. Think of all of them including John Edwards playing with the Bilderbirgers. Think of the fortuitous 9/11 events, and now the London bombings. Always ask: "Who does it benefit?" and Who preplanned the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq long before 9/11 and why? Ask what the 14 permanent bases being built in Iraq are for. Ask about the plans for Iran and Syria. Ask about the plans for Central and South America.

Hillary is just another Bush. America will have to suffer the effects of Peak Oil if we do not control the middle east. Who will we have the biggest clash with in the future (spelled Russia and China). Ask why it is that the 'powers that be' can only think in terms of military domination of the rest of the world (global hegemony, global empire). Ask where the money goes. (and it comes from the middle class tax payers and now the Chinese who buy our debt)Ask 'Who' really has the power? Presidents? Ask if the democrats are really any different from the republicans when it comes to corporatist interests.

I can't believe how naive I was a few months ago before I reallly began to read and study these issues. Now I am simply depressed, reduced to the forelorn hope that Peak Oil really does occur, and perhaps devastatingly so. Enough so to destroy the military industrial complex, the extreme corporatists. I don't believe in the 'cause'. I detest the American Empire and any democrats and/or republicans who support it and seek to further its ambitions.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. I haven't given a goddamn what Bill Clinton thought since I heard of him

And I still don't.

[FlemingsGhost]

45. Thanks, Bill. Now ... go fuck off.

The DLC must be destroyed.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

46. Just another chickenhawk, asking brave men to fight when he wouldn't.

Clinton is brilliant and charismatic but lacks any basic level of morality or character. He will sellout any principal or anyone for another shot at power through his wife. He and his wife do not give a damn about working class Americans. They are both members of the elitist ruling class that think they know what is best for America (the rich like themselves) no matter what harm it does to the drones (the working class).

[MaineDem]

47. Good Lord!!!

Elitist ruling class??? Any idea how he got there, if indeed he is a part of it? Clue, he wasn't born into it that's for sure.


I give up with this thread. How quickly some - many - Democrats here are to disown Clinton. Now we're complaining about his lack of military service? If I remember correctly it was an educational deferment but don't hold me to that. Not like he was AWOL from a cushy NG job.

Oh... brave women are fighting, too. Don't forget them.

Holy crap!

[FreeStateDemocrat]

49. He became a member by kissing the Bush families collective ass, repeatedly

I gave him credit for being brilliant, which is how he dodged the draft during the Vietnam War. You are correct about brave women even if they are not suppose to be serve in combat operations their life is on the line wherever they serve in Iraq and far too many have been killed and maimed in this senseless war. I have no tolerance for anybody who plays lapdog to the neo-cons and Billy boy is fulfilling that role quite admirably.

[Andromeda]

51. Yeah, what's up with that?

Elite ruling class indeed.

Many forget that he came up the hard way and not on his daddy's name.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

68. I’m not referring to how he “came up” but what he is today, an elitist

He is an elitist now even if he may have “worked” (if kissing ass is work) his way into the ruling class but so did Bob Dole and I don’t trust either to represent working class Americans today. NAFTA is only one example of why I don’t trust any Clinton. Another is not being willing to fight for this country himself but willing to encourage the sacrifice other people’s children to die in an unnecessary war while you and your brat live the good life in a totally protected and elite environment. He needs to just STFU.

[otohara]

48. Bill Doesn't Care What We Think Either

hmmm....fuck what the American people want. St. Bill has spoken and all must listen who are democrats.

[NNN0LHI]

50. Shut up Bill. You've had your 15 minutes of fame. Just STFU n/t

[johnnie]

54. Clinton has his moments

This isn't one of them.
Of course unlike the repukes, we call 'em as we see 'em and not follow blindly. If one of "ours" fucks up, we call them on it. It makes me feel good to not be one of the other side.

[Vladimir]

55. Yeah, but its clearly not working

and the reason is clearly our presence.

Troops. Out. Now.

[brentspeak]

57. We need not so much a deadline

as we do an exit strategy.

We can get out of Iraq, leave it in a semi-secure state, if we somehow persuade other nations to lend their troops -- a lot of troops. Enough to secure Iraqi borders and police Baghdad without being outnumbered by insurgents.

Bush got us (and Iraq) into this mess; he's going to have to get Iraq out of it by begging other nations to take our place. But in much greater numbers than we've been able to provide.

[brentspeak]

58. If Clinton doesn't agree with a deadline

he at least better agree that a ton more troops need to be dispatched to Iraq if he expect Iraqi Democracy to work. Not our troops - foreign troops.

Because as it, with the numbers of troops, the poorly-guarded borders, it is a total disaster that's not going to get better with time.

Clinton is performing a public misservice if he just touts "no deadline" without also advocating for more international support.

[tabasco]

61. Add a name to the roster of the Chickenhawk Brigade.

[0007]

62. C'mon Bill, 'ya know the right thing to do is to bring the Troops Home

today.

[FlyByNight]

64. Hey Bill, the US government has destroyed...

growing democracies in the past. That's been, practically, US government policy in the post-WWII period.

And how about those dozen or so new bases that are being built? What type of "withdrawal" are you talking about?

And don't think the US wouldn't exert military force again if ANY minimal nationalization of the oil industry were to occur - assuming Iraq ever becomes somewhat sovereign.

Please Bill, stop being a whore.

:rant:

[reprobate]

65. Couldn't be Clinton. That was Bill the Cat speaking thru Clinton.

[GracieM]

66. Bill Clinton for Supreme Court!

Scotty didn't deny it....lol

[Emillereid]

69. God, I wish this whore would just shut up and go away --

I wonder why I ever defended this asshole. He's such a shill for the corporate class. He really doesn't have any moral core.

Yeah, 58% of the Iraqis voted -- and the overwhelming majority voted for the US to leave!!