Police unknowingly use Taser on diabetic officer (KY)

[struggle4progress]

By Adam Sichko
[e-mail]
The Courier-Journal

Louisville Metro Police officers used a Taser Monday night on a man who turned out to be a police officer for the small city of Lincolnshire -- and a diabetic with low blood sugar. <snip>

Before that, the driver had bumped into several cars in "hit-and-run-type situations" going northwest in the 4100 block of Bardstown Road, near Buechel Bank Road, Mitchell said. <snip>

At the time, the Lincolnshire officer had an extremely low blood-sugar count, said his chief, Mark Jones. Doctors at University Hospital told him the officer went into a "diabetic coma," Jones said. <snip>

The man had been driving about 5 mph when Louisville officers boxed in the car at Bardstown Road and the Buechel Bypass. <snip>

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=taser&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d


A 5 mph chase with a suspect who was lapsing into a diabetic coma ...

[Demit]

1. Let's see the "tasers are better than guns!" folks defend this one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. the victim is still alive

that is the defense for these things... the other choice is... a bullet... that is the argument

Now this one... will be used as an example of waht NOT to do. This falls on the category of ooops... and quite possibly, contempt of cop

[merwin]

5. No, the other choice is to shoot out tires and grab the guy.

Until they see a weapon, there is NO reason to fire any of their weapons.

Also, people with low blood sugar (low enough to be crashing your car i mean), generally aren't moving too much to begin with... so there was NO reason to taser the guy.

[TX-RAT]

17. "No, the other choice is to shoot out tires and grab the guy."

Excellent response.
Lets just send rounds bouncing down the road, and neighborhood. Surely thats got to be safer than actually taking him into custody without firing a shot.

[merwin]

19. That was assuming that they thought he was a real threat.

He was only going 5mph, so shooting his tires wouldn't exactly be sending rounds bouncing down the road. One would hope a police officer's aim is good enough to hit a barely moving car tire from 20 feet.

[TX-RAT]

20. assuming that they thought he was a real threat."

Hitting several cars and not responding to officers constitutes a real threat.

(One would hope a police officer's aim is good enough to hit a barely moving car tire from 20 feet.)
Shot a whole lot of car tires, have ya?

[merwin]

22. Bumping into several cars at 5mph should indicate (to any sane person

at the scene) that 1 or more of the following is true:
- The driver is too short to see out the window
- The driver is too drunk to find the gas/brake pedal
- The driver is too drunk to see out the window
- The driver is having some kind of medical episode
- The driver got out of the vehicle while it was in gear

None of these constitutes a 'real threat' to the officer (have you seen a person with low enough blood sugar to go into a diabetic coma? They don't move a lot to begin with). Standard procedure for events like this USED to be to either block the car off, lay out a spike strip down the road (if possible), or cause the car tires to go flat by some other means (ie: gunshot).

"Shot a whole lot of car tires, have ya?"
I've shot a handgun several times, at various targets. A car tire is not a hard target to hit when the car is barely moving.

[TX-RAT]

27. slammed into dozens of cars on Bardstown road

Read the other links to the same story. They have a different accounting of what happen. Plus updates on the actual investigation.

This particular link seems a little biased.

Go to page 4 and scroll down

LMPD Officers Use Taser To Subdue Lincolnshire Officer.

[merwin]

47. That officer's report sounds fishy. "He definately had his wits about him"

Yeah right. It's not physically possible to have your wits about you when you're going into a diabetic coma. You can barely speak. You can barely move. You probably can't even stand on your own. You might be mumbling things, but nothing coherent. Let me put it this way... at that point, there would have been NO WAY the diabetic officer could have had even enough wits to even pick up his cell phone and dial 911 for someone to help him.

The fact is, when they stopped him, he was going 5mph, without a weapon, and physically unable to hurt anyone.

[TX-RAT]

51. Did you even read the other link?

[merwin]

63. So they saw his gun, but not his badge? Both of which were apparently

plainly displayed outside of his clothing (according to the second article).

We are coming into a world where 'agressively resisting' can mean raising your voice at an officer. Do you want to go there? Do you notice how they never actually say what the people they taser are doing when they are 'agressively resisting'?

[TX-RAT]

57. he was going 5mph, without a weapon

If you had read the other link, you would have known he was wearing a weapon.

[blondeatlast]

65. Seems to me all the accounts are biased, hust in differing ways.

One tells the story the way you like it, the others don't.

[TX-RAT]

71. One had eye witness statements, the other didn't.

I've always found eye witness statements to be very helpful, to an investigation.

[one_true_leroy]

60. your assumtion is wrong...

some diabetic crashers are VERY vigorous right up to the point of unconsiousness.

[blondeatlast]

64. Not necessarily. As a longtime diabetic, at the age of 7 I had a brutal

hypo and managed to fight off my 6'4" father.

Still, I would think they would have assumed that there was a consciousness issue here, and thus they effed up big times.

[Lerkfish]

2. oh, they "knowingly" used it alright, they just didn't know it was a

fellow police officer having a diabetic event.

the headline is misleading.

[TX-RAT]

28. The whole story's misleading

Go to page 4 in the link and scroll down.

[Lerkfish]

39. ok, now that I've done that, I don't see what's misleading about the

story.

[TX-RAT]

52. Dozens of vehicles, 2 shredded tires, and head on into traffic.

Not counting all the lights he blew.

[one_true_leroy]

4. it may have seemed appropriate at the time...

diabetic crashers are sometimes violently belligerent, to the point that they must be forcibly restrained in order to administer D50 (sugar solution) through IV. though a terrible situation, it is true that this ended better than it would have with a gun and bullet. PDs are rarely trained to respond to diabetic emergencies, do not carry glucometers, and have no scope of practice to administer any diabetic treatment, so they probably suspected drugs (a diabetic coma can resemble PCP or meth OD) or mental disorder.

edit for spelling

[Bluebear]

6. You're right, officers should be trained for diabetic emergencies

Since diabetes is extremely prevelant amongst our citizens and is on the rise, the officers should be trained to respond to these emergencies.

[one_true_leroy]

7. i love the quote in your sig...

i'm always surprised at such rare candor, but find nothing he says shocking.

[MrPrax]

9. So your saying...

cops are stupid and ill-trained to deal with the public with other than 'restraint'.

Not being a member of law enforcement, I had to use my own training to deal with a diabetic and deaf guy who collapsed off a staircase and needed help...sure at first I thought he was a 'drunken drug addict'--but like I say, I haven't been trained in law enforcement, so I talked to him and through basic 'signing' and compassion, I figured out he was in distress and not a taser case.

If you reply I will give you the details on the 911 call and trying to explain to other the people trained in law enforcement to send help and pleading to them to ignore 'the circumstances' and the 'location' which according to law enforcement is indicative of a 'bad call' sectors...

I am not even sure that law enforcement types can even do CPR actually and so suggesting diabetic training seems a distance second to suggesting that these people put away their kill toys and focus on other aspects of protecting the public... :-(

[SouthernDem2004]

10. Lol, For someone not sure of some things you have certainly formed some

negative opinions.

Police have to meet state standards to be certified. My state, like most, requires CPR training. We have it annually.

I have encountered the violent diabetic. Its hard to determine if someone has a medical problem when they are being resistive and combative.

Yes, in some cases it can be determined rather quickly if someone is having sugar issues. Diabetics are not uncommon. In most cases we call and ambulance and they take care of the person.

So, before you call Cops "stupid and ill-trained" maybe you should do a little research.

"I am not even sure that law enforcement types can even do CPR actually and so suggesting diabetic training seems a distance second to suggesting that these people put away their kill toys and focus on other aspects of protecting the public."

Lol, nice opinion based on a lack of knowledge.

If the person you talked to had punched or attacked you I am sure your compassion would have been enough to determine he was diabetic and the power of your compassion alone would have stopped the man's assault!

[MrPrax]

14. "stupid and ill-trained"?

Well dispensing with another tirade about the "stupid and ill-trained" cop I heard on the news today caught in the usual racist hijinx on tape (no doubt certified and given appropriate 'community sensitivity') where he was shaking down a citizen like you and me...luckily he didn't use his taser or flashlight or cuffs or 'other cops' or anything to subdue the 'perp'.

But no doubt the 'code of silence' will triumph over his other oaths as have done forever and a day.

Now on to your points--sure I am negative about an institution that has changed not one iota since the 19th century and used consistently as a control mechanism on the underclasses and in this case, such an institution has failed miserably ...and I am definitely negative about the 'law and order' types that missed the forum thread about cops using a taser on a diabetic in crisis.

Are you proposing any other types of 'perps' that might be handled by electrical shock by certified state employees?

"If the person you talked to had punched or attacked" --then so what, not being law enforcement I would have had to defend myself (another point you missed)

As a member of the public not certified to shoot, shock or otherwise harm the public or in this case, someone in need of medical assistance and state certified cops unable to do little more than USE RESTRAINT and shock the 'perp' into a coma.

Now you know as well as I --to law enforcement there are ONLY three sets of people in the world: cops, criminals and citizens...those three Cs

[SouthernDem2004]

15. Hmmm

I am a Police Officer.

You seem to be getting your information from TV shows and movies. We do not use the term "perp", that is TV.

If you do not think law enforcement has changed since the 19th Century you might want to do a little research. Just a suggestion.

You might want to research some actual facts before you make such broad generalizations about hundreds of thousands of people.

"Now you know as well as I --to law enforcement there are ONLY three sets of people in the world: cops, criminals and citizens...those three Cs"

What is your point in the above statement. I see nothing wrong with it.

There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Alot of people are ignorant.

[Lerkfish]

23. with all due respect, does defending your profession also

justify obvious misuse of force?
I have lived in many parts of the US, and EVERYWHERE I have lived, there have been repeated incidents of overzealous cops killing or injuring innocent people...either the wrong address or a misidentification, or they weren't white enough...

everywhere I've lived: Los Angeles, NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, Seattle, Las Vegas....

EVERY SINGLE PLACE has some incident of abuse by police.

does that mean all police are bad? of course not. It would be wrong to jump to that conclusion...but by the same token, I don't see the need to blindly defend the profession as completely innocent, either.

The fact is, there is at least some people who enter the police force because they like or come to like abusing authority. And, there are "dirty" cops.

I understand that you are a good cop, which is more than wonderful. But I think its disingenuous to pretend that all cops are like you. They aren't. They're human and represent a range of personalities. Unfortunately, a person with a bad personality problem, in a position of authority, with a dangerous or deadly weapon IS something the rest of us are concerned about.

[SouthernDem2004]

48. I have never stated such...

Just the opposite... Police are people, there are good ones and there are bad ones. I merely commented here on a few ignorant statements posted.

[Lerkfish]

50. ahhh... my apologies.

rereading your posts, I see you are correct. Not sure why I came away with a different impression on the first run through.

[slaveplanet]

49. The problem is, Things, have fundamentally changed

The police have been militarized. The police now wear black masks when doing raids. The police are now very concerned with watching you-and they will do anything , go to ANY length to keep you from watching them.
Here's a perfect recent case:
http://tinyurl.com/e3ob4

The Police , no longer civil servants ... are Praetorian guard

They are no longer "Peace officers" they are corporate "enforcement officers" that are mere employees for the corporate municipality agencies that enforce "regulations" that fly in the face of constitutional or common law. They fall under the corporate municipality jurisdiction, and there is very little recourse for the common law citizen. The municipal courts do not recognize the common law "flesh and blood" person to which they have no jurisdiction over.

When you signed on the dotted line for your "driver license". You unknowingly signed your self over to the corporate municipality. This is why your name is printed in capital letters(legal fiction). When you operate your vehicle you are subject to the laws that apply to corporate entities. All motorized travel, with few exceptions, is a commercial endeavor. This is how they can bind you to the UCC (uniform commercial code/codification).

As agency employees the police operate under the use of "Force Continuum (FC)" the first step of FC starts the moment they put on the uniform. The last step of FC is your death. FC is used every time you come into contact with an agency employee "enforcement officer". They WILL use FC up to and including your death to gain control of the situation. These are the terms you signed onto as part of the contract.

steps in FC:
1. First read the 107.101 intent of the disclaimer as evidence.
2. 107.020 (A)(1) the purpose of the use of the force is to gain control of a person, etc.
3. 107.020 (B), when practical, a verbal warning should be used before force is being used.
4. 107.020 (C)(1) Can't use force as punishment or retaliation.
5. 107.020 (C)(2) Accomplish the officers "lawful" objectives, etc including physical control.
6. 107.020 (C)(3) can use any level of force
7. 107.020 (C)(4) The Use of Force Continuum
a. Officer presence, uniform
b. Verbal Commands
c. Soft hand techniques - grabbing you and a heel hand hit.
d. OC - pepper spray
e. Batons
f. TASERS
g. Deadly force
8. 107.030 A use of Force Form just be filled out.


So the three c's is in reality a farce. another illusion in the world of illusions.

There are 6 or more types of people -
1. government(only the members of US Congress, everything under Congress is an Agency)
2. military (created by congress)
3. Authorities(employees of agencies)
4. diplomats (one who travels with diplomatic immunity)
5. civilians- (the authorities militarized term for citizens)
6. accused civilians- what most so-called "cops" refer to as criminals
6b. enemy combatants- added with passage of patriot act


So what's strange about this case, is an agency employee used FC on another agency employee... but did so under the assumption that it was a civilian...OOOPs..guess he shouldn't have skipped steps, c,d, & e . But they regularly do these days...because those take effort, and who the f cares about some dead or tortured civilians in the long run...collateral damage.

[one_true_leroy]

58. whoa!!

i never said anything about cops being stupid or ill-trained, so please don't make up junk. it's deceitful and not appreciated.

training cannot accomodate every eventuality or scenario. i'm a medic, so my first thought in this type of situation would be to look at a short list of elements that may present an altered level of consciousness... diabetes, OD, mental instability, head injury, fever, among others. i'm educated and trained to rule these out in the field, because it is my scope of practice. it is not the police's scope to do so, nor do they have any legal or medical standing to adminster the treatments for most of these. most PD's i know do have some basic trauma training, including CPR, but i would not expect them to be presented with the scenario outlined in the story and be able to rule out a threat to public safety. the car had already hit others, and a uncontrolled car in motion is dangerous, irrespective of intent or cause, and the police were responding to a public safety threat. i'm glad they had available a non-lethel (usually) means of controlling the situation, and i'm sure they felt badly about the outcome.

your story is not typical of a true diabetic coma... the patient is usually unable to articulate (even through signing) in any meaningful way, and are often violent. i have seen an ederly lady nearly amputate a medics finger by biting him while in a coma (the term coma is misleading in these cases, as the person can usually move around, if erratically). she didn't remember it at all, and was mortified to find out what she'd done. people react differently to varying levels of blood sugar.

[0007]

8. When are the folks of America gonna take back their country

and knock off this kind of bullshit? junior has all the police thinking everyone is a terrorist.

And junior wanted to install the Taser King, Bernard B. Kerik, in charge of HomeLand Security!


Two fucking asswipes on one stick with no life.

[Miss Chybil]

11. Oh, here's a guy who's acting strangely. As opposed to trying to figure

out what's wrong with him, let's just Taser his ass. Oops. He's a cop. So solly!

A Taser is a deadly weapon and must be treated as such. When will they learn?

[Berserker]

12. OPPS

They really fucked up instead of tasering a person on the street they tasered a fellow officer. Does that make it different? Only in America when you wear a cop uniform do you become and instant fucking hero. In my judgment you have to prove yourself a hero and not just because you wear a uniform with a badge.

[LisaL]

13. He wasn't just acting strangely. He was driving around and

hitting other cars.

[Lerkfish]

26. at 5 mph.

[TX-RAT]

29. Only after he'd hit dozens of vehicles

Blown 2 driver side tires, and was spewing transmission fluid and radiator fluid all over the road. according to eye witnesses.

[Lerkfish]

34. was he tasered BEFORE he was traveling at 5 mph or after? stay focused

on the issue.
Was tasering justified?
the question wasn't whether while in a diabetic episode he caused property damage.

Unless you're saying its justified to taser a nonthreatening suspect based on how much property damage they cause.

[Miss Chybil]

44. Yep. That's a reason to Taser him.

You'd think if they were close enough to Taser the guy, they were close enough to take him down - without the high-tech assistance - and then perhaps try to ascertain why he was acting the way he was acting. Good thing they didn't kill him playing with their toys.

[bdot]

16. If it moves, taser it!

[Roland99]

18. Wow...officer lives in the subdivision next to my ex's parents.

[BiggJawn]

21. Every time the TASER Stings......

"Damn, Bernie, you makin' a BUTTLOAD of cash offa them buzzers!"

Lovely, just fucking lovely...
As an Insulin Dependant diabetic myself, can you "Tasers are A-OK" Sheep understand WHY I might just possibly be a LITTLE PISSED at this story?

What the fucking good does it do to carry a bracelet, necklace, whatever when they zap ya first, figure out what's going on later.

Guess I could always get a big fuckin' red "D" tatted in the middle of my forehead...

[Lerkfish]

24. Another diabetic here...and yes, I'm ticked as well.

I have a card in my wallet, and used to wear a bracelet, which was absolutely pointless.
I was wearing the bracelet when I was admitted to the ER, and someone just removed the bracelet without reading it, and I was unable to anticipate that amount of stupidity, so treatment given to me while unconscious did not take into effect my diabetes.
If medical personnel can overlook an obvious thing like a bracelet, we are certainly at the mercy of police.

[BiggJawn]

25. I don't wear a bracelet, either.

We have a "Shoot first, Apologise later, and besides, the Shooting Board NEVER goes against us" policy around here.

Given the same situation, the Lafayette Polizei would have filled the car with Lead to stop it, and the officers would have been exonerated of any wrong-doing.

Why wear a god-damn constant reminder that I'm not normal if it's not going to serve its intended purpose, anyway?

Fucking "9-11 Changed EVERYTHING" mentality.

[TX-RAT]

30. Maybe it should pop up when they run your LP

Maybe a special LP for your car

[Lerkfish]

40. before or after they shoot you?

in that situation, which would occur first?

[TX-RAT]

54. Your really getting to be a waste of time.

[BiggJawn]

41. Part of me says "What a great idea" and part of me doesn't.

Not sure I want my medical problems being a part of what you get from NCIC.

[TX-RAT]

53. Thats exactly why i said it.

It's a damned if you do damned if you don't position. Theres no way an officer can determine the difference between a drunk, a diabetic. All i can say is if it's my ass responding, he's going to be treated like a DUI until i can determine the difference. And i can't determine the difference just looking at him. This happens way to often, and i wish there was a fool proof way of determine their condition. A special plate would have made a world of difference in the way this was handled, but like you I'm not sure people really want to advertise their medical conditions while driving down the road, or have it pop up on an NCIC check.
Thanks for looking at this logically.

[BiggJawn]

61. Problem is, the 2 condtions are similar...

Some of the symptoms of Hypoglycemia are dis-orientation, slurred speech, loss of motor skills, mood changes, beligerence, stumbling...

Of course, diabetics don't usually smell like a tavern dumpster, so there's the first clue...

I get pretty obstinate when my glucose is crashing, like "Shut the fuck up and give me some sugar, asshole!"(yes, I HAVE had to apologise to people) I'm sure that'd endear me to some cop who thought he'd just made the DUI bust of the week....

My biggest problem with having it "pop up" is what's to stop somebody from deciding that it'd be great to have OTHER chronic conditions available on NCIC?

[TX-RAT]

73. Of course, diabetics don't usually smell like a tavern dumpster,

Your absolutely right.

The only problem there,is I need to either have a cooperative suspect, or have them in custody to determine that.

I've also had DUI suspects go to great extremes to cover the smell of alcohol, cigars,gum,mouthwash,air fresheners, I've even had them spritz themselves with a little gasoline just to cover the smell.

[BiggJawn]

74. Therein lies The Problem...

You need a cooperative subject, and once the glucose level goes down enough that you suspect you're dealing with an intoxicated person, the brain function has slowed down enough that they either won't comprehend what you're asking them to do, or, like me, they're getting a major 'Tude... What to do, what to do....

Gasoline? hope they don't try to light a smoke after that...

[TX-RAT]

76. I've often wondered if the gasoline, was just a cover for perfume.

[blondeatlast]

69. "No way an officer can determine the difference between a drunk

and a diabetic."

BULLSHIT.

Smell his breath, for one. Look for medical ID for another. But hell, I need medical attention, so go ahead, shoot me or taser me.

Just realize there will be many groups with whom I work that will be all over your "shoot first, assist later" ass if you do.

[TX-RAT]

72. What part of , ( by looking at him, did you not understand)?

(Smell his breath, for one. Look for medical ID for another.)
Thats a little difficult to do, when their attempting to flee, or not wanting to comply with the officer.
The ID is a great idea, to bad most diabetics don't wear one.
How do you feel about requiring every person whose been diagnosed as a diabetic, to wear a bracelet? Good luck enforcing that one.
"Heres another one" How about denying driving privileges to anyone whose been diagnosed as a diabetic. Think that might be fair?

(Just realize there will be many groups with whom I work that will be all over your "shoot first, assist later" ass if you do.)
Unless you can show me where I've ever condoned that then I'll have to take that as a meaningless threat.

[blondeatlast]

68. I've had the same damn experience (ID diabetic for 39 years).

I wear my MedicAlert quite obviously and religiously, and when I've had an emergency, it's routimely ignored.

Mine very clearly states that I wear an insulin pump, yet I've had to stop nurses from administering an insulin shot.

This isn't rocket science. A diabetic in shock doesn't really resemble a drunk or high.

This scares me more than I can even say here. Of all the things this man did not need, it's further disruption of neurologic function. I'm surprised he survived.

God help the sick in this America. We are no longer welcome, it would appear. We're threats, apparently.

[genieroze]

31. A better link

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050601/NEWS01/506010447/1008/NEWS01

[genieroze]

32. I really like this part

"At that point, they didn't know he was a police officer," Mitchell said.

"He wasn't in a uniform, and he wasn't in a police car."

Jones said the officer has been on staff for less than a year and has a clean record.

Blood tests at University Hospital found that he had no alcohol or drugs in his system.

Mitchell said no criminal charges will be filed.

The officer will be on administrative leave during the investigation, Jones said.



Lets see if it was anyone of us regular mortals unlike the cop gods, they wouldn't have given a rats ass if we were diabetic and we would have had charges pressed against us while in a coma. Plus the cop who did it would have gotten a promotion. How much do ya wanna bet?

[rocktivity]

33. Working link

link

"They commanded him to exit his vehicle. That didn't get a result,"...said Officer Dwight Mitchell, a metro police spokesman...Officers finally forced him out of the car but didn't use weapons.

They got one handcuff on the man, who then began "aggressively resisting." That's when the Taser was used, Mitchell said.

Do diabetics in low-blood sugar mode tend to be agressive? I thought they got groggy--as in, to groggy to get out of car?

:shrug:
rocknation

[Lerkfish]

35. depends, most likely extreme confusion at being handcuffed..

in low sugar episodes one can become disoriented and critical thinking impaired. Its just as likely he suddenly "came to", surrounding by officers and having his arms pulled behind his back. Without realizing what the hell was going on, he might have appeared to resist, when he was just reacting after being (or still in the throes of) disorientation.

In light amounts of sugar deficiency, one can become irritable, though normally not combative or aggressive. But this sounds like a severe episode, so my money is on that he was completely disoriented.

If you think about it, a diabetic with extreme low blood sugar has a brain functioning at impaired capacity, since blood sugar is important to brain function. Essentially, it'd be like a boxer who's had his bell rung in a fight...he might "appear" to be ok, but still not be able to count how many fingers are being held up.

[FlaGranny]

36. Diabetics with low blood sugar

can do about anything. The brain NEEDS enough glucose to function. Not enough glucose and strange behavior AND grogginess occurs - as in so groggy that you're driving 5 mph and hitting cars. If you are groggy and in a "daze" and someone grabs you, the normal instinct will be to resist.

[Lerkfish]

37. we posted similar posts simultaneously.

good post.

[FlaGranny]

38. Great minds, and all. n/t

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

43. wow, ignorance is truly the enemy of compassion.

maybe you should get to know a few diabetics.

[SpeedwayDemocrat]

45. Too scared to get to know us...

Thank you, lerkfish, for standing up for us! There are 18 million diabetics in the U.S., and over a quarter of them don't know they have it. And for those I speak to about it (I'm a type 1 on a pump), they are extremely uncomfortable with the topic. While they acknowledge that they have someone in their family with it, the thought that they might be next is too scary to contemplate. Then the conversation turns to comments like "well you must have eaten a lot of candy growing up" or some such nonsense that further reveals they really don't know anything about this disease.
In this country, a standard doctor's physical DOES NOT include a test for blood sugar/glucose; you have to ask. If my doc misdiagnosed me in the clinical setting, it would extremely unlikely that a police officer not familiar with the symptoms would know any different.
I have to ask - where is the AMERICAN DIABETES ASSOCIATION on the education of law enforcement issue??? If the ADA isn't helping diabetics, they certainly aren't going to waste time trying to educate law enforcement. Another need goes unmet, by those in a position to do something about it. Shame on you, ADA!

[Lerkfish]

46. hey, no problem, standing up for myself as well!

I'm a type 2 diabetic and wasn't diagnosed until I was over 35. I had had low sugar episodes, but DIDN'T REALIZE WHAT IT WAS. I'd feel better after eating, but again, never made the connection with blood sugar.

Luckily, for me, I"m not yet bad enough that episodes every caused serious problems...though I do recall one time while in the Chicago art museum that my fiance had to run and get me a candy bar after I had slid down to the floor, unable to do much but tell her I needed to eat immediately. I'm diet and pill controlled at the moment, though I know things could change later in life.

further, even if you KNOW you're a diabetic, an episode can sneak up on you, based on certain triggers. For me, if I go to the mall, and walk around a lot, it'll hit me, and I'll have to eat something. Dunno why, since I can do more arduous excercise without the same problem -- go figure.

This cop could have been a newly discovered diabetic and unfamiliar with his own warning signs.

[TankLV]

56. I am a "newly" diagnosed diabetic - of 4 years.

I have been struggling to get my sugar levels DOWN all that time - and now that I am finally approaching it, I have occasionally run into the low blood sugar a couple of times - it sneaks up on me almost INSTANTLY - and I feel like near collapse after a short while until (usually other around me) figure out what's happening.

I've been told that if you get too low - you could die. If I have too much, like I have, you could eventually loose limbs or other organs, etc.

I've been erring on the side of too high.

The experts say that by 2015 or so, 75% of the EARTH's population will be diabetic. 75%!!!!!

And only less than 25% of the people who are know it.

[Lerkfish]

67. yeah, my wife notices something is amiss before I do...

she'll say "honey are you alright?" and I haven't noticed a change but she can tell, because I am normally very talkative and gregarious and I'll start being very moody and quiet. Just a little bit after she notices something, I'll be able to tell it myself and know I need to eat something.

actually, I have a HARDER time with regulation on this medication I'm taking, because its a little TOO efficient at lowering my blood sugar, so I really can't miss my timed feedings.

[one_true_leroy]

62. the problem, as i see it, is in the numbers...

most areas have far more police units than medic units, so it really boils down to response and who gets called. if a person crashes in their home or familiar environs, the caller is usually familiar with the patient and would know to call EMS for a medical emergency. 'on the streets,' a stranger is far more likely to call the police. police can only responde to situation based on descriptions from the scene. onlookers and witness are more likely to describe damages, crahes, dangerous/suspicious behavior, while family and friends are more likely to describe onset of erratic behavior and (if known) medical history and underlying causative factors. i've read one of the bracelt posts above, and there really is no excuse. "patches, pacers, zippers, scars, tubes and bracelets" is drilled into us as part of our assessment algorithm (nitro patches, pacemakers, and telltale open heart sugery scars for heart pts, tubes for GI pts, bracelets for diabetics and allergies).

[Lerkfish]

66. thanks for making some very valid points.

and making me rethink what I've already posted.
ok, I'll cut the police a little slack in this instance.

[one_true_leroy]

70. thank you for being open minded...

since earning my medic license, i've gained a lot more respect for police officers. sure, there are some (quite few) with a chip on their shoulder, but BY FAR, most really do strive 'to serve and protect'

unfortunately, we only hear about it when things go sour, which are the exceptions. me, personally, i'm all for tasers. i'm for very specific and clear protocols and training for their usage, and for policy oversight by either elected or appointed citizens. the clear majority of the time, tasers really do leave no harm, unlike other non-lethals (clubs and macing, both of which have higher incidences of lasting damage).

i would suggest anyone reading this to take even just a first responder course and become a volunteer in their community. not only is it an excellent pro-active and beneficial service, but participating really does open your eyes to what the 'other side' is like, and you realize police officers are mostly doing the best they can.

[TankLV]

55. It's just to easy to reach for something and shoot, when this previously

wasn't the case.

If a cop shot someone and later found out it wasn't justified, they had to answer for it. But because this is supposedly "harmless" - the self-imposed caution in using the tazer is gone.

Tazers are supposedly "not lethal" - so go ahead and shoot - instead of thinking.

It's just too fucking easy to SHOOT FIRST and ask questions later.

The MAKERS of the tazer have promoted this as an ALTERNATIVE to situations where shooting may be necessary.

What all of these instances show is that the cops involved park their brain and shoot first - THAT seems to be the problem.

Until that issue is addressed, we will have lots more of this.

Now, of course, in all of the COUNTLESS instances dayly that engender interaction between a cop and the public, this is an amazingly small percentage of unfortunate decisions - but because this is the latest and newest "toy" in the arsenal, it makes news whenever something bad happens.

I have a friend who is a former cop who became fed up with all of the hoops he had to go thru whenever a cituation to use force came up. He eventually quit the force because of all the hassels. And this was an amazing person anyone would have been proud to have as a friend.

Life "on the line" is unimaginable for those who've never experienced it. Don't shoot - you are DEAD. Shoot at the wront time, and an innocent person DIES. Not an easy position to be in.

[thecai]

59. Maybe NOW They Will Consider Banning Tazers

Since this time the victim was a cop. :eyes:

[Gregorian]

75. Folks, Tazers are very bad for police.

I am now, totally paranoid of any cop I see.
I am now, much more likely to do something I would regret when faced with a cop, to avoid a 50,000 volt shock.

That is probably what most people are thinking now.

Tazers are something that should be uninvented. If I were a cop, I'd be very upset that people now see me in a new way. And I'm putting this post mildly. I don't want to say what I really think.

[Bouncy Ball]

77. THANK YOU

that is EXACTLY what I have been trying to say.

I am a VERY law-abiding person, never one speeding ticket, nothing. Only been pulled over twice in my life, got a warning each time. I was highly cooperative each time. I do NOT break laws.

But I DO see police officers differently now, and I hate that. These tasers make my blood run cold. I think the potential for abuse, for taser first, ask questions later is WAY too high.

It scares me. For the first time in my entire life, I can honestly say I am afraid of the police.

And I am horribly saddened to say that. I really am. Because part of me knows MOST police officers are good people. But this taser business gives me the creeps five ways to Sunday. I do NOT want to run into a police officer now. In any way. I saw one the other day and got chills.