NYT: Health Leaders Seek Consensus Over Uninsured(Secret Meetings)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/29/national/29insure.html?hp&ex=1117339200&en=4ee7fc0aa141bf73&ei=5094&partner=homepage

At a time when Congress has been torn by partisan battles, 24 ideologically disparate leaders representing the health care industry, corporations and unions, and conservative and liberal groups have been meeting secretly for months to seek a consensus on proposals to provide coverage for the growing number of people with no health insurance.

The participants, ranging from the liberal Families USA to the conservative Heritage Foundation and the United States Chamber of Commerce, said they had made progress in trying to overcome the ideological impasse that has stymied action on the problem for eight years.

The group, which first came together last October, has not endorsed any specific plan, but has discussed a range of options, including tax incentives for the purchase of insurance, changes in Medicaid to cover more low-income adults and the creation of insurance purchasing pools at the state level.

"This effort holds as much promise as any I've participated in over the last decade, probably more," said Kate Sullivan Hare, the executive director of health care policy at the United States Chamber of Commerce.

[aquart]

1. Remind me to be impressed.

They've done such a great job on American health care so far.

[EST]

2. When will these idiots learn?

We don't need effn' health insurance, dammit, we need health care!

[KT2000]

3. Good Point!

they can meet till the cows come home but their objectives are likely to satisfy the profit motive above all else.

[Nite Owl]

4. Unless they are talking about

universal, single payor health care which would not be tied to employment don't bother.

[bvar22]

5. These people are NOT meeting for National Interests,

they are DESPERATELY looking for a way to SAVE the rapidly failing FOR PROFIT HealthCare Industry.

Universal HealthCare...NOW.

[SusanF_CA]

6. hello...

If I don't have the money to pay a monthly premium on insurance, what the hell is a tax incentative going to do? Am I missing something here?

[Lugnut]

10. You took the words right out of my keyboard

They obviously haven't considered that the wages being paid these days barely cover basic expenses. It's mind boggling.

Welcome to DU SusanF! :hi:

[Coastie for Truth]

12. Don't forget

--we have a President who never worked a day in his life

--we have a President who got into Yale University as a "Legacy"

--we have a President who got into the Harvard Business School on the "set aside for dumb rich kids from powerful families"

--we have a President who sincerely believes that the New Deal and the Great Society were bad for America

--we have a President who sincerely believes that people are poor because they are either dumb or lazy.

--we have a President who sincerely believes that he is a person of Faith and that he has found favor in God's eyes.

What you are missing is a clinical subtlety-->

WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO IS SERIOUSLY CLINICALLY DELUSIONAL

[suziedemocrat]

7. We (DU) need to brainstorm on the perfect plan and present it to congress.

Especially after all the threads on Andy's surgery.

Collectively DU has a lot of experience and knowledge.

Personally - this is what I would like to see:
1) More studies and emphasis on nutrition and healthy living and disease prevention.
2) Less emphasis on prescription and over the counter drugs or even some herbal remedies.
3) More alternatives to surgery.
4) More emphasis on educating the patients so THEY can make informed decisions.
5) Cheaper screenings available to everyone without a doctors recommendation. Even MRIs.
6) Medical records, including x-rays, kept by patient. Doctors and hospitals can keep copies if they like.
7) More information on doctors avaialbe to enable people to pick the good doctors and avoid "bad' doctors. Complaints against doctors need to be posted on the web. There needs to be some sort of sytem for patients to rate doctors like ebay has for buyers and sellers.
8) Some sort of catastrophic insurance provided to everyone by the government.


The entire systems needs to be overhauled. It appears that it would be far to costly to provide national health care under our current system. But maybe that is because the system is inefficient. Are we really getting our money's worth when it comes to health care. I know the drug and insurance companies are making money like bandits. But supposedly doctors and hospitals are not. (Although that appears to be a matter of opinion.) I also suspect some surgeries are over-performed, like heart surgery, hysterectomies, etc. I think there is a better way - but it would require giving more power to the patients and would almost certainly mean less easy money for the drug and insurance companies.

[TahitiNut]

9. Once upon a time, homeowners' insurance was a catastrophe ...

... where the insurance companies sold every arcane and esoteric kind of policies imaginable. There was no way that any homeowner was able to compare the value of any policy against any other policy.

Then the states (led by New York State) and the federal government collaborated to require that all homeowners' insurance follow standard forms. That's how we got "Homeowners Form A" etc. That was a Depression era reform, as I'm told.

We're long past the time when such a reform is necessary for health care. I think it's too late.

The US pays nearly 15% of its GDP on health care. Canada (and other 'nationalized' countries) pay less than 10%. The US pays 50% more for far, far less coverage. Wealthy people are getting wealthier off the illness, injury, and death of others. No system of that kind can be allowed in a truly democratic nation.

[suziedemocrat]

11. Maybe Eliot Spitzer can take on a new challenge? n/t

[area51]

22. disagree

suziedemocrat said:

"It appears that it would be far to costly to provide national health care under our current system."

It's actually far more expensive to let our current wealthcare system {healthcare only for the rich} continue.

We don't have to pay more in taxes for single-payer healthcare; we just have to stop letting the military steal most of our tax dollars.

As we are now, (1) we're at a disadvantage in the USA b/c we don't have as healthy workers as other countries; simple logic tells us healthier workers are more productive workers; and (2) we're a pandemic waiting to happen since our healthcare system only ensures the wealthiest get needed access to healthcare. Gated communities of the über-wealthy won't stop a virus.

[pokercat999]

25. Without a doubt we have the best

military in the world.

It's simple use the military as a model for the health care system.

[AlamoDemoc]

8. I smell deception by punch lobbyists funded with taxpayers' dollars

[lovuian]

13. the only solution that works is single payer insurance

you can have multi number of ideas but its going to go there!!!

[Coastie for Truth]

14. Some serious reading---

REQUIRED READING

Himmelstein DU, Warren E, Thorne D, Woolhandler S.,
MarketWatch: Illness And Injury As Contributors To Bankruptcy.
Health Aff (Millwood). 2005 Feb
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15689369&query_hl=1
Link (Adobe Acrobat full text): http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/reprint/hlthaff.w5.63v1

1. Himmelstein & Woolhandler, The high costs of for-profit care.
CMAJ. 2004 Jun 8;170(12):1814-5.
Link: (full text, HTML) http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/170/12/1814
Link: (full text, Adobe Acrobat PDF) http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/170/12/1814

2. Int J Health Serv. 2004;34(1) 79-86. Administrative waste in the U.S. health care system in 2003: the cost to the nation, the states, and the District of Columbia, with state-specific estimates of potential savings. Himmelstein DU, Woolhandler S, Wolfe SM.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15088674&query_hl=3

3. Int J Health Serv. 2004;34(1):65-78, Health care administration in the United States and Canada: micromanagement, macro costs, Woolhandler S, Campbell T, Himmelstein DU.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15088673&query_hl=3

4. Woolhandler S, Himmelstein DU. National health insurance: falling expectations and the safety net. Med Care. 2004 May;42(5):403-5. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15083098&query_hl=3

5. Woolhandler S, Campbell T, Himmelstein DU. Free Full Text Costs of health care administration in the United States and Canada.
N Engl J Med. 2003 Aug 21;349(8) 768-75.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12930930&query_hl=3

I found 108 papers by Woolhander and Himmelstein on the advantages of "single payer" and the overwhelming shortcomings" of our present non-system.

Search here:

The only reasons we don't have it--

1. Karen Ignagni ran her infamous "Harry and Louise" informercials. Ignagni is the President of the health insurance industry lobbying group "America's Health Insurance Plans, USA" - the "Swift Boat Veterans" and "NRA" of health care -- and Ignagni is the Joe Corsi and John O'Neill of health care.

2. Newton Leroy Gingrich didn't want it.

3. It was a convenient stick to beat Hillary Clinton over the head with.

4. The middlemen and arbitrageurs (the Health Insurance Industry) are making billions off of our present thoroughly broken system.

Why the push now--

1. The airlines are hurting.

2. Junk Bond GM and Junk Bond Ford are in deep trouble.

[OzarkDem]

18. But can we trust Vichy Dems

to negotiate something workable?

I fear many of them have been waiting so long for an opportunity to fix the health care access problem, they'll jump at every bad idea the Heritage Foundation floats.

We already saw their baffling reaction to Repubs disastrous Medicaid Reform bill. I don't trust their judgement to negotiate anything at this point. They're far too willing to listen to Repubs and the news media than the average American.

[Coastie for Truth]

19. With an epidemic of

off shoring

out sourcing

Chapter XI reorganizations

pension plan terminations

health plan terminations

and even non-dischargeable medical bankruptcies (see the "Required reading" block in my append)

we are at the same point with much of American industry that we were with Chrysler at the time of Carter's loan bail out of Chrysler.

Things are a lot worse then Bushies sycophants tell him.

[moondust]

15. Should have been done in the early 90s.

Actually long before that.

Rather than trash Clinton's health care proposals entirely they should have formed a group like this to propose alternatives and work something out. Waiting more than a decade to do it has cost countless people their health and many their lives.

Dumbass Republican reactionaries.

[AnnInLa]

16. Look at this paragraph from the editorial page of the NYT

((Also on LBN there is an article about the editorial page of the NYT rebuking the repuke congress for getting nothing done. Evidently, great things were expected of this far-right-congress, but..... Look where it says one of the priorities should have been to EXPAND THE MARKET FOR PRIVATE HEALTH CARE. I hate 'em, hate 'em all.))

"Five months in, Congress can point to the following achievements: a bankruptcy bill 10 years in the making, and a class-action reform watered down essentially to a jurisdictional change to federal from state courts," it continues. "That's about it. Among the 2004 campaign promises that aren't close to being fulfilled are making the Bush tax cuts permanent, reforming Social Security and expanding the market for private health care. Instead of any of those big three, Congress next seems poised to pass a subsidy-laden energy bill and a highway bill with some 4,000 earmarks for individual Members. For this we elected Republicans?"

www.rawstory.com

[OzarkDem]

17. If its all the same to the NYT

I'd prefer the wingnuts in Congress do us a favor and forget about SS reform, private insurance access and making tax cuts permanent.

[ovidsen]

20. This is NOT what the NYT said

It was the Wall Street Journal.

Big difference.

[bornskeptic]

21. This is from the WSJ, not the NYT n/t

[AnnInLa]

23. ooo[ps, sorry

[RazzleCat]

24. We need insurance NOW

I just landed in an insurance gap. I was told that I would have insurance by May 1 (so I canceled my personal coverage as of May 1), well the kid mangled himself on the 5th of May so to the emergency room we go. Hey no insurance. In my case it's OK, I went to the owner of the company to ask what happened to the insurance benefit? He apologized that their was going to be a 90 day hold and paid out of his pocket the hospital fees, well over 23,000. plus agreed to pay for all follow up therapy. Here is the thing, most peoples bosses (if they even have insurance offered) would just say, not my problem. I am lucky that my boss is an MD (not practicing) and has a hatred of how we are billed for medical care in this county. He is not a liberal (but I was up in his penthouse and saw a Kerry Edwars button), but one of his dreams is to open a hospital with a totally different type of billing/operating system. I am also lucky that I work in a small office where he has to look at me every day, has met my kid, and knows me, so for him its harder to just go screw you. I truly think that if I was at a larger company I would have been told to just suck it up and deal with it.