Drug deal suspect dies after Taser hit

[Tippy]

Death is first in Metro related to electric gun

By LEE ANN O'NEAL
Staff Writer


A Nashville man who had just put what police say was a rock of crack cocaine in his mouth died minutes after he was touched with a Taser stun gun yesterday.

Police said officers were attempting to force Walter Lamont Seats, 23, to spit out what he had concealed in his mouth when a police sergeant touched him on an arm with the Taser, sending 50,000 volts through his body.

It was the first Metro police incident of a Taser stun in which the recipient died. The safety of the electric gun has been questioned; more than 70 people have died after being shocked with stun guns.

"The cause of Mr. Seats' death is not known at present," Metro police spokes-man Don Aaron said last night. Aaron said police think Seats swallowed crack cocaine but do not know at what point during his confrontation with five officers that Seats may have swallowed it.

More at link:

< http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050528/SERVICES05/505280357 >

[opihimoimoi]

1. Only 70 Peeps died so far....??? I guess we gatta wait unti 86762563.07

peeps die before they outlaw the damn thing.

[merh]

2. Now if that is not torture, I don't know what is!

Spit it out, spit it out "zilt"

The officer's life was not in danger, but he sure needed his evidence.

Blood tests and his testimony would have held up in court. :argh:

[ElectroPrincess]

3. Why don't we try harder to get to the source of this poison?

and get the "Top Dogs" (Drug Kingpins) who ship us this poison?

I can't watch COPs anymore because the "thrill" of busting poor people (even when they are horribly wrong and breaking the law) ... well, it's just not doing it for me anymore. :shrug:

[merh]

5. You want an honest answer to that question?

The drug trade is profitable, not just to the kingpins, but to the agencies fighting the "war on drugs".

Because of the limited resources of law enforcement, the seizure and forfeiture of monies, homes, cars, business, etc. is necessary to supplement the agencies budgets so that they can buy their equipment, increase their manpower and provide training. (Having attended some of the training, imho some of it is just a waste of tax dollars and a free vacation for the attendees, not to mention a chance for private corporations to push their wares and sell their services.)

So the agencies allow the trafficking of the drugs so that there is a market and revenue. They wait for big seizures of cash transactions to help with their budgets or they will seize the cars of mules to sell at auction to supplement their budgets. I know of one instance were a snitch gave an agency the location of a tanker car full of cocaine. The agency let it slide, saying it knew about it and was letting it in so that they could catch the masterminds of the operations. Nothing ever came of it.

Its a vicious, yet lucrative cycle. It helps fuel the economy and it helps keeps the masses controllable, I mean what threat are a bunch of druggies, they are too "out of it" to be angry with the government, they just want their drugs.

Of course, all of this is just my opinion as I am sure the law enforcement posters will begin to flame me. :hi:

But you know, what the heck!

[Mythsaje]

14. People just don't get it

The "War on <some> Drugs" is a big part of the problem, not part of the solution. It's too easy for people to get carried away because of how drugs and drug use have been demonized in modern society. "Oh, he was just a druggie."

Great. "He was just a Jew" was once a popular catch-phrase.

How about punishing people for harm they actually do rather than alleged potential harm? How about realizing how stupid "consensual crimes" actually are and go after the people who are doing really screwed up things whether or not they're on drugs?

How about clearing out space in our prisons for murderers, rapists, and other violent criminals by letting non-violent drug offenders out? Those that actually have a problem (drug abusers, as opposed to recreational users) can be sent to rehab for a fraction of the cost.

Let's get with the program and put our resources where they'll do the most good...chasing REAL criminals.

[merh]

15. There's no money in chasing murderers, rapists and thieves.

There is money to be made in pursuing the "drug wars". All wars are profitable in some way or other. All wars have victims.

I cannot disagree with you on your position, I just point out the truth, there's money to be made in allowing the economy of the drug trade and in fighting the "war on drugs".

:hi:

[Mythsaje]

18. I know

I was expanding on what I thought you were saying, not arguing with you. You've hit it right on the head, and it's something I think a lot of "freedom-loving" progressives really need to consider. That's where a lot of their arguments in general, I believe, fall completely flat. You can't really support freedom if you support the current WO<S>D.

[merh]

19. And I was expounding on your post!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

I don't support any war. There are other ways to solve problems without wars. :hug:

[Mythsaje]

21. Exactly

It says a lot that they keep using that lame rhetoric to describe things that shouldn't be approached as a war.

[SouthernDem2004]

4. Nope.

It is not illegal to have cocaine in your blood. If it was that big of deal they could have pumped his stomach but that would be a little extreme.

[merh]

6. Wrong, the amount of cocaine in his system would have been

taken into consideration as would have the fact that he had no prescription for cocaine. Add that to the testimony of the officers watching him hurriedly ingest the crack like substance (lay/expert opinions of the police are allowed in a court of law) and the evidence would have been ample.

But off course, I have no problems with allowing the guy who swallowed one crack rock go rather than torture him to give up the "evidence", but what the hay, I am just a damned tree hugging, civil rights loving, left wing liberal that believes in the rights of human beings. Call me crazy :crazy:

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. So why do cops pee test suspects?

I have several 'acquaintances' who were charged with crimes based on the results of a pee test. One just last summer was standing outside a bar talking to a guy who was smoking a joint. Two cops drove by, saw the joint, stopped, and arrested both the guy smoking and my friend who was talking to him. She was pee tested and charged with disturbing the peace because she tested positive on the pee test.

[SouthernDem2004]

10. I have never heard of such. Have a link? How did the Police get a warrant

to do the test? They would have to get a warrant to get a sample. That means getting a judge to sign it. Got a link?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. They probably cajoled her into giving the sample...

Since the constitution got thrown out the window in DUI cases, I guess the cops thought that it would be the same in the venue described.

[merh]

20. The same way they get a warrant to test a suspected DUI

driver's blood. The term is "reasonable suspicion" and warrants based on reasonable suspicion are issued every day in every city in the USofA.

[SouthernDem2004]

24. You are mistaken....

Reasonable suspicion is not enough to get a warrant. You must have probable cause. Not a single warrant is ever written in any city of the USofA for reasonable suspicion.

No judge is going to sign a warrant for a Disorderly charge under normal circumstances. Such a charge would not warrant such an invasion. DUI laws are specific and allow for such.

[merh]

25. Sorry, when an officer stops a fellow with beer cans in his car

and the smell of alcohol on his breath, it may be called "probable cause" but it is actually reasonable suspicision. Just as the fellow popping the "crack like substance" into his mouth as observed by the lay/expert witnesses, the police. They call it probable cause, type up their search warrant and get the blood test.

[SouthernDem2004]

27. You are forgeting that...

The Officer also does Field Sobriety Tests. The smell of alcohol alone and beer cans will not float. These combined lead to PC.

I have never heard of a urine test on a Disorderly charge. Does not mean it has not happened. I would like some evidence that it has happened so I can research it.

A link would be nice.

[merh]

28. Wrong, the person can refuse the field sobriety tests and the

the breath test!

You miss the obvious, as explained earlier, if the officers, as lay/expert witness, having developed their expertise from working in the field and having seized and examined crack cocaine, observe the suspect ingest a substance that they believe to be crack, they can get a warrant for his blood.

Don't make me do your research for you. Go try google. :hi:

[SouthernDem2004]

29. Sigh.

Yes, they can refuse the test and get a DUI Refusal charge which is the same as a DUI. It all falls under the Implied Consent laws. In my city we often will get a warrant and take blood.

Sorry, I am not going to look for something that is not there. If someone tests positive for cocaine in there system that does not prove that what they just ingested was cocaine. You can not be charge with cocaine possession if you do not have any cocaine as evidence. The only way to get the cocaine once ingested is by pumping. Having cocaine in ones systems does not prove that what the suspect just ate was cocaine. Your scenario would not hold up in court. You lack PC for a warrant to start with.

[Tippy]

41. If they agree no warrent is needed

Then to we have the Patriot Act...They can do what they want without fear of repercusion in most cases...And if the person is on probation they don't need a warrent..

[SouthernDem2004]

45. You are mistaken.

You are correct with the agreeing part but the question is why do it in the first place. It will not produce a charge unless the person was driving a vehicle.

Not sure why you mentioned the PA. Does not apply.

As for the porbation thing. You are mistaken. The Police can not force him to give a sample. Only their Probation Officer can do that.

[Tippy]

43. Sound to me like in this case their was a probable cause

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

7. Kick

I think this actually makes the number 104 deaths tied to the Taser.

Unless you are Taser International.

[FlaGranny]

9. Compare this

to a new drug on the market. With 70 or more deaths so obviously connected, it would have been pulled off the market. No matter that the drug was safe for most who used it.

I'm of the opinion that the police are much more willing to use a taser because they've been taught it is safe. Rather, they should be taught to use it as a last resort, before resorting to even more deadly means - because experience IS showing it can be deadly.

[Robb]

12. I've been on two calls

(as ambulance driver, mind you)

...where guns were out. Tasers were still in the belts.

Actually, I've never seen the tasers come out. :shrug: I'll ask next time if anyone's ever tased anyone; but mind you, they were prepared to shoot people in both cases. I'm not sure it's a hands-club-taser-gun straight stepladder in their minds.

[Tippy]

44. We all know these articles we are reading

are not a complete picture.....but since Tasers are not suppose to kill I believe something needs to be done. It could be the people being tasered have medical problems known or unknown..but then again who knows if the officers are not tazing them more than once.

I don't believe in high speed chases either...there are way way to many of them...

[liberalnurse]

13. Let's be realistic folks.....

Crack intoxication and abuse is the primary issue.

[ConfuZed]

16. Do you work for "taser"?

...Not that you would give me an honest answer but you have a habit of viciously trying discredit any anti-taser threads including mine :)

[liberalnurse]

17. I have no vested interest in the Taser Company.

I find the Taser to be an extremely valuable tool in Law Enforcement....and advocate for it's use.:applause:

Opponents to the Taser appear to be lounge chair opponent who have not dealt daily with the hostile element of society.

Additionally, I wish to encourage the implementation of clear Taser use guidelines.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NNN0LHI]

23. Misread post n/t

[Book Lover]

26. Then I assume you are also

interested in how it appears that in actual use, the safety claims made by the company aren't holding up?

[liberalnurse]

30. We do not hear of the thousands upon thousands

of successful Taser events....They occur daily and I am grateful.Let us not be selective here as the use of the Taser is only one variable in the lot....

[DrDebug]

34. If taser are no problem then why did Amnesty International

write a long story against them in their annual report?

Ill-treatment and excessive use of force by law enforcement officials

There were reports of ill-treatment and deaths in custody involving “new generation ” tasers::powerful dart-firing electroshock weapons deployed or trialled by more than 5,000 US police and correctional
agencies. More than 40 people died after being struck by US police tasers, bringing to more than 70 the total number of such deaths reported since 2001. While coroners generally attributed cause of death to factors such as drug intoxication, in at least five cases they found the taser played a role.

Most of the people who died were unarmed men who did not appear to pose a serious threat when they were electroshocked. Many were subjected to multiple shocks and some to additional force such as pepper spray or dangerous restraint holds, including hogtyin (placing someone face-down with their hands and feet bound together from behind).

There were reports that tasers were used by officers routinely to shock people who were mentally disturbed or simply refused to obey commands. Children and the elderly were among those shocked. In most such cases, the officers involved were cleared of wrongdoing.In some departments tasers had become the most common force tool used by officers against a wide range of suspects.

AI reiterated its call on the US authorities to suspend use and transfers of tasers and other stun weapons pending a rigorous, independent inquiry into their use and effects.

[Book Lover]

38. You have turned the issue around

The Taser is supposed to kill zero people. That is obviously not the case. Why not go after the manufacturer to issue more honest information? Oh, that's right, because the people the cops are tasering are guilty (hey, why would the cop be arresting him/her?) and after all, who cares how much pain or how close to death a cop puts a suspect. That's his/her job, right? At least that's what I see in your eyes.

You know, my mother was a visiting nurse for many years, and she worked in the worst neighborhoods in New York City; she was stuck with needles, cursed at and spat upon, the whole nine yards, just like (I presume) you have. Yet I never saw her exhibit the attitude you do. I hope to all the gods I'm never in your care.

[doc05]

39. It sounds like your mother would

have developed plenty of patience having had you as a child.

Walk a mile in the shoes of anyone who has spent any amount of time working in law enforcement or a busy urban emergency room before you judge us and our attitudes.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Algorem]

31. 1 more in Ohio yesterday,

Akron man dies; had been stunned with a Taser gun

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1117359309209310.xml&coll=2

Sunday, May 29, 2005
Donna Iacoboni
Plain Dealer Reporter

An 18-year-old Akron man died soon after a Springfield Township policewoman stunned him with a Taser gun Saturday.

Richard T. Holcomb was pronounced dead at 2:05 a.m. at Akron City Hospital. The Summit County medical examiner was performing an autopsy Saturday and declined to release preliminary findings. Holcomb's body was being tested for drugs.

Township police Capt. Garry Moneypenny and resident Deborah Hartman provided the following description of what happened.

Hartman, 48, called police at 12:45 a.m., saying three people were loitering behind her house near her horse barn. She heard them talking through a monitor in her barn that relays sound to a speaker in her house...

[Evergreen Emerald]

32. it is dangerous out there.

TACOMA, Wash. -- A Tacoma Police officer was shot in the leg Saturday during a traffic stop in a south end neighborhood and the shooter was killed, authorities said.

The officer, who was working alone, was interviewing the driver of a Mitsubishi he had pulled over at about 4:30 p.m. when the passenger stepped out the car and began shooting at the officer, said Tacoma Police spokeswoman Tracy Conaway.

The officer, whose name has not been released, was in stable condition and recovering at Tacoma General Hospital from a non-life threatening injury, Conaway said.

Luck and calm communication with the police dispatcher played a big role in saving his life, she added. An off-duty police officer, who just happened to be a few blocks away when the injured officer's call came in, rushed to the scene and joined the shootout. At least a dozen shots were fired.

Edited to comply with DU posting rules.

[liberalnurse]

37. Exactly!

Many everyday citizens do not have a clue into the dangerous abyss our Law Enforcement Officers must confront daily. It's a damn sewer!

[DubyaSux]

33. Here's proof...

...that law enforcement should be suspended if there's a chance someone could be hurt.

In Cincinatti, the mantra was "17 blacks have been killed by cops" while ignoring the fact that 14 of them were trying to kill the officers. But the "civil unrest" was justified because the cops were trying to protect themselves.

Now, nobody is getting shot and police officer injuries are down 80%. And still, the same thing - cops are using the taser too much.

How do they win? Just let them go...let them all go. That seems to be what everyone wants.

[rfkrfk]

35. killed, to preserve evidence n/t

[saigon68]

36. I wonder if dude was Black?

The cops seem to kill a lot of minorities this way.

[Evergreen Emerald]

42. which dude? The police officer or the suspect?