Chirac will blame Blair if France votes Non

[T_i_B]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/28/weu28.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/05/28/ixportaltop.html

Tony Blair and Jacques Chirac will be pitched into a furious six-month dispute over the future direction of the European Union if the French people vote No to the EU constitution tomorrow.

Government sources are braced for the French president to round on the Prime Minister and blame him for making the constitution too "Anglo-Saxon" on economic issues and for plunging Europe into crisis as a result.

British diplomats believe that Mr Chirac will call for France, Germany and other nations to form a "core Europe" in which they can push ahead with integration without being held back by laggards such as Britain.

[aneerkoinos]

1. Hmm

If this means a definitely more socialist core (the heart) of a market librul body, then I'm for it and wish Finland will join the core. If this means French just wan't to imitate US and create a federalist United States of Europe for their own imperialistic purposes, I'm not that enthusiastic.

How this would work in practice, I don't know.

[AP]

4. Chirac is a RW'er. He's not a socialist.

[aneerkoinos]

10. Well yeah

But frog RW'ers are often left of Blair.

[Frederik]

11. Yes, the categories are different

in France. On economic issues, French Conservatives are to the left of New Labour.

[AP]

14. Examples?

Childs Trust Fund? Working Tax Credit?

[Frederik]

16. State ownership

in key industries, for example. That's a no-no in modern-day Britain; in France it's the norm. Which is part of the reason why French companies stay French and on French soil. You may say it's more nationalist than socialist though.

Rover wouldn't have been allowed to go bust if it was French.

This concerns the Anglo-Saxon ideology of laissez-faire, which is less popular in France, left or right.

[AP]

18. I'm not convinced.

Do you have more evidence?

My mind is open, but the idea that Chirac is to the left of UK Labour on economic issues requires a lot more evidence than that.

[malaise]

21. Attila the hun

was to the left of New labour. How hard is that?

[Mass]

22. You are right not to be convinced

Chirac is right wing and is not for state ownership. He has been selling state properties as quickly as he can afford to.

Chirac is definitively at the right of the New Labour, and used to be a lot more to the right years ago, but he had to soften his positions to be elected.

[AP]

13. Only in the minds of a few.

[Tai-chi]

2. The euro is the most important factor

If the confidence in the euro vanish, a plunge in the euro exchange rate and a drop in purchasing power in EU will follow. Together with higher interest rates.
Therefore this French referendum is of so great importance. The euro is a huge threat to the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency, and USA and UK/the anglo-saxon financial axis-of-evil London New York would love a French "NON". Because then the US dollar tyranny could continue for some more years to come.
Robbing the world blind with worthless US fiat currency.

[newyawker99]

3. Hi Tai-chi!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AP]

5. The UK does not want a no vote. The UK is not a part of the Euro-zone

not because they're against it, but because of resistance in a population that is very sentimental about currency.

Labour has been trying to chip away at that sentimentality (can you imagine being sentimental about something as arbitrary as a unit of money?).

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. What, like the US is sentimental about dollar bills?

I don't think there's any other industrialised country that hasn't long got rid of such low denomination notes and replaced them with coins.

But it's not just sentimentality. There are substantial reasons for not wanting to join the Euro. And Labour has done almost nothing to persuade people that the Euro is a good idea. Brown and Blair are fairly sceptical about it themselves.

[AP]

7. I mean sentimental about a unit of measure.

People would rather have their money measured by the term 'pound' with the illusion that a central bank in london determines monetary policy (when it's really a central bank in DC over which Brits have no democratic control) than have it called a 'euro' with monetary policy controled by a central bank over which they actually have political control.

I think it's fairly obvious that the euro is an issue which Brown and Blair are trying to gently move forward knowing that moving too fast would jeopardize their progressive agenda on so many other fronts.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. AP, don't you realise that whenever you say "it's fairly obvious"

all the British posters recognise you have no argument left?

"their progressive agenda on so many other fronts" - :rofl:

[AP]

9. Whatever.

You're just saying that. I know you really don't believe that I ever run out of arguments.

You know that I think the university tuition plan is very progressive. You know that I don't think taxing earned income at 50% is all that progressive. You know that I think the reforms to the legal system -- dividing offices so that the person who appoints judges and prosecutors doesn't also appoint public defenders -- you know that I think that's all progressive. You know that I think building up wealth in the bottom two quintiles faster than any other quintile and lowering unemployment and raising salaries is progressive.

[bicentennial_baby]

15. There are other reasons for keeping the pound

The pound is a major currency, and if both the Euro and the Dollar falter in the future, Britain can hope to have the only other major Western currency standing. Not that I think that's necessarily going to happen, but that's what I've heard as a justification.

[AP]

17. My feeling is that a strong Europe offsetting US hegemony is good for

everyone. It's good for the UK, it's good for europe and it's good for people who work for a living in the US.

I think that if the UK doesn't help make the EU stronger, they're helping the US maintain its hegemony. The UK has no say over what happens in Washington, but they do have a say over what happens in Brussels.

If the dollar and euro drop in vallue, it won't be the UK sitting pretty. It will be China and India and maybe Brazil.

[T_i_B]

19. If the French vote "Non"

Then the British referendum would be dead in the water as there would be no chance whatsoever of getting the British to vote yes. That would actually make life easier for Labour as they could avoid this issue, which is one of the Tories strongest cards.

What I find amusing though, is that the French are against this constitution as it's too "Anglo-Saxon" and the English are against it as it's too "French"! Old emmnities do die hard evidently.

[Frederik]

12. It's an interesting theory but

as long as faith in the dollar is bound to keep diminishing, I would think the euro would do all right anyway. It's not like much is going to change if the constitution is rejected. It will be the same Europe as today, non?

I agree though, that Wall Street-City of London would probably prefer a non.

[T_i_B]

20. Well the French voted "Non"

we can only wait and see if they do try and blame us for this.