Ohio Officials Now Believe More Than $10 Million in Rare Coins Is Missing

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBU3VYM79E.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A scandal over Ohio's investment in rare coins deepened Thursday as authorities learned that more than $10 million in coins may now be missing. The state said it would prosecute and sue the fund's former manager.
Authorities originally had suspected that coins worth an estimated $400,000 had vanished, but an attorney for the fund manager told inspectors that $10 million to $12 million is missing, the state attorney general's office said.

That is about 20 percent of the $55 million investment by the Bureau of Workers' Compensation, which got into rare coins in the late 1990s as a way to hedge its investments in stocks and bonds.

"Such criminal action is outrageous and will not be tolerated," Gov. Bob Taft said in a news release. "We will pursue all legal avenues possible to recover these funds for injured workers and employers."

The focus of the investigation is Tom Noe, a private coin dealer and Republican donor who led the coin investment. Democrats have alleged that Noe was awarded the state's business in return for campaign contributions to Republicans, who control most of state government.

[PartyPooper]

1. Well, there goes another safety net.

[aquart]

2. Wow. That is one dirty state.

Question. Missing? Or never bought at all? Did these coins even exist? With this kind of record keeping free for all, how would we know?

[bunny planet]

7. Wouldn't it be neat if we could link Cruella de Blackwell to this scandal

in some way. A girl can dream can't she?

[hootinholler]

15. Well, did he get a contribution from Noe?

That would be sweet.

-Hoot

[Carla in Ca]

77. From Dailykos...

Did Noe make his donations to Shrubco with money stolen from the workers of the state of Ohio?
The "Coin-Gate" saga spreads deeper and wider.

<http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050529/NEWS24/505290441/-1/NEWS>

"But the question now is whether Democrats will capitalize on the growing Republican scandal surrounding the state's $10 million to $12 million loss in rare-coin investments controlled by Tom Noe, a prominent Toledo-area GOP fund-raiser and coin dealer."

[LeahD]

25. Oh please, let it be so. Let Blackwell tumble.

[drm604]

42. Dreams can come true

Coingate--ready to explode?

[mod mom]

49. Noe was on the Lucas County BOE from 1993-2003. His wife

Bernadette Restivo Noe recently resigned after a scandalous multitude of problems concerning the Nov 2 election. Even Blackwell couldn't ignore these problems:

LINK: Lucas Co Ohio BOE Investigation.

http://serform2.sos.state.oh.us/sos/elections/lucas.htm

[lenidog]

16. I was just wondering if they had ever been bought

then again that is because of a "Law & Order" episode.

[mtnester]

29. Us Ohio Dems have know this state was dirty for a long time

hopefully, the voter fraud, this Noe scandal, school funding, hideous unemployment, and many many more things bodes well for the ouster of the republican dominated government branches from power in 06. They have had my state in their grip for so many years, even their own are starting to suffer.

Not to mention Taft's 19% approval rating.

Ohio is ripe for the Dems, BUT we have to shut down voter fraud and the Patriot Pastors.

[fujiyama]

79. I love the term

"Patriot Pastors".

Hadn't heard that before.

[maxrandb]

51. Sorry, but I have to say it.

"Yeah, but at least gays can't get married"

and yes, Ohio was one of those states with an anti-gay marriage initiative on the ballot. Was that a coin-cidence, or was the aim of that initiative to turn out the so called "Christians".

"Hey Ohio! While all that "moralizing" was going on, the pricks reached into your wallets and made off with your lunch money"

This is just sick. It's like a preacher pontificating to you from the pulpit, while little Timmy is under his robe giving him a blow-job.

[anitar1]

63. " You don't know what you got til it's gone"

Joni Mitchell.

[For PaisAn]

3. Noe is a very bad boy

It's not nice to bite the hand that feeds you. Well one corrupt turn deserves another I guess.

And injured workers and employers are the ones who pay the price. Isn't that always the way with these repunant people.

[Robbien]

4. Taft will make sure the investigation stops short of his activities

Why does this article say that only Democrats are accusing Noe. Jeeze, everyone is accusing Noe but AP is still playing the 'he said/she said' game.

[Roland99]

40. Wasn't Gov. Taft implicated? I believe he was

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/05/ohio-gop-coin-gate-hits-governors.html

[leftofcool]

5. Sounds like Noe is...........

good presidential material. (heavy sarcasm)

Left of Cool

[For PaisAn]

9. LOL, good one!

n/t

[Mr_Spock]

6. Just another Republican mobster

What else is new...

[Old and In the Way]

8. Was he on the HSN?

That name sounds familiar...

[CottonBear]

19. Off topic. Is your screen name from the band w/ Vassar Clements (sp?)?

?

[Old and In the Way]

21. Indeed it is.

The BlueGrass supergroup of our time. I happened to be listening to the band and their namesake song the night I signed on, so I figured, what the hey, it's Old and in the Way.

Old And In The Way

Lyrics: David Grisman
Music: David Grisman

Chorus
Old and in the way, that's what I heard them say
They used to heed the words he said, but that was yesterday
Gold will turn to gray and youth will fade away
They'll never care about you, call you old and in the way

Once I hear tell, he was happy
He had his share of friends and good times
Now, those friends have all passed on
He don't have a place called home
Looking back to a better day, feeling old and in the way



When just a boy, he left his home
Thought he'd have the world on a string
Now the years have come and gone
Through the streets he walks alone
Like the old dog gone astray, he's just old and in the way




Recordings

8 Oct 1973 Old And In The Way

[CottonBear]

39. Cool! Thanks for sharing the lyrics!

I saw Clements play many years ago in Athens, GA.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

67. One of my favorite CD's - My son got to play mandolin

with Grisman last summer - I wondered about your "Old and in the Way" name, too.

[Inland]

10. Well, the mere fact the state went into investments in rare coins

proves to me something is crooked. I've never heard of a government investing in coins, much less 20% of a fund, so it was clearly a means to send some sort of broker or finder fee to this guy, and was a crooked deal before he stole the coins.

[Richard Steele]

13. Gotta agree with Inland 100%...

I wouldn't be surprised if these coins were never bought in the first place.
I hope this scandal sticks to a lot more than just Noe.
It's not so often we see political crimes as clearcut as THEFT, so I hope this case grows some BIG legs.

[Inland]

34. Yes, who ever actually SAW these coins.

And if they saw them, did they check dates and stuff, or just assume they were as described?

[Vanje]

70. I'll bet Ohio's rare coins werent stolen, arent missing.

I'll bet they never existed.

[donkeyotay]

46. a tsunami of Republican crime

The state invested $50 Million in a rare coin fund that just HAPPENED to be owned by a Republican operative who developed a penchant for donating to Republicans, including Republican judges who ruled against those contesting the election, Taft himself and the fraudulent president.

So if Mr. 19%-Approval-Rating Taft would like to help the disabled citizens of Ohio recover their funds from the Republican Crimewave, the Republicans could start by returning to the state the donations that came from this crooked Republican scam.

BTW, the director of that fund wanted to add another $25M to his investment because it was earning such a good return, and this was after an auditor had raised red flags as to the integrity of the investment.

The links here are great. Also visit the Toledo Blade; they're an independently owned paper that actually has investigative reporters on staff.

[justsomegirl]

11. huge!

I think this is going to be a huge story.

americablog has been covering it; the toledo blade broke the story and has done some fantastic investigating.

Five of the nine supreme court justices recused themselves, including the Chief Justice.

I think Ohio should ask for an independent prosecutor.

[lostnfound]

76. The ToledoBlade reporter was interviewed tonight on Sunday Monitor

Should be available at kpftx.org in a day or so.

He mentioned the purchase of a $100,000 coin using worker's compensation money that was then sold for less than $1.

He said he could see no end in sight to the story; it just keeps giving and giving.

[TOhioLiberal]

12. I have to laugh...

...when this story broke, the local talking heads, both Repubs, were pissing and moaning that the Blade was targeting a 'good man' who made money for the state.

Noe has been stonewalling the auditors for the last few days. Today he was served with a search warrant. And what do I hear from the Rush-clones? Not one peep. :rofl:

Think I'll call in tomorrow and point out that the Blade was right...:)

[KaliTracy]

14. Noe used to be Chairman of the Republican Party (93-03)

His wife was the Lucas county BOE and the Chairperson of the Lucas County Republican Party until Blackwell forced her (and others) resignation.

People on the 2004 Election/Discussion group have been busy -- these are "short" threads -- but deep with information. (forgive me if there were others -- didn't leave them out intentionally)

drip...drip....drip...

OH Coingate scandal, how does it relate to OH 2004 elections?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x371866

Connection found between Mr. Noe and the Election - Very cool
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=371329&mesg_id=371329

Mr. Noe and his Billion Dollar Connection
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=371800&mesg_id=371800


More on the Toledo Coins -- Profits "skimmed" Noe contributed to Top
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=371192#372787

Ohio Sues manager (Noe?) of rare coin fund, who steps down
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x372784

[autorank]

17. NNNOLHI, I'm so shocked, I just can't believe it.

Republican political corruption in Ohio! Never, well maybe Taft's positives in the teens reflects this, but theft, fraud, wow!

This couldn't be part of the Ohio Republican plan and execution of said plan to steal the election could it?

Contact the DNC and Give 'em Hell About Acting on Election Fraud

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

[Changenow]

18. Shit happens,

more liberal demagoguery

[cmd]

20. We (OH) even gave them a tax break

This is looking worse and worse for Ohio.

Toledo Blade - Democrats Target Tax Breaks For Coin Deals
Rep. Peter Ujvagi (D-Toledo) introduced a bill last week that would end the 16-year old sales-tax exemption for investment coins. The exemption has deprived the state of $16 million dollars since 1992, money Ujvagi would like to see go to higher education.
News Item  ·  Toledo Blade  ·  May 24, 2005

[Nothing Without Hope]

22. No wonder Ohio is a great farming state, with all that dirt and manure

And now let's hope it ALL hits the fan!!!

:popcorn: :woohoo:

[anitar1]

64. I hope they sink into the muck with toes turned up. n/t

[SoCalDem]

23. Shoulda gone with the magic beans.. Could have at least eaten them

:)

[LeahD]

24. A mushroom cloud is building over the state of Ohio!

Couldn't happen too soon.

Truth cannot be suppressed forever!!

[darkism]

26. A few million Kerry votes are missing in that state too.

Stuff just has a tendency to disappear there, doesn't it?

[DiverDave]

27. Another repuke thief

whoda thunk it??

[KaliTracy]

28. COIN-cidence? Mr. Noe and his Billion Dollar Connection see

thread here....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=371800&mesg_id=371800

[LittleWoman]

30. Noe invested in more than just rare coins

According to the Columbus Dispatch he also purchased a number of other "collectables" including Presidental memorabilia. What I want to know is how much of that memorabilia is Bush related? This guy is also in trouble for violating campaign funding laws with his personal contributions to the Bush campaign. So did he "invest" any Workers Comp money in the kind of stuff you get for contrituting to the Bush campaign? Remember the photo of Bush of AF 1 talking on the phone on 9/11 that went to contributors. I think it is time to clean out the Augean stables otherwise known as the Rebublican dominated government of Ohio.

[teryang]

31. Repukes have a problem with gold investments

...because they reflect adversely on the declining dollar. They really have a problem with workers compensation. So stealing the rare coins was just an altruistic act for the good of working people.

[Tesla]

32. I just have one thing to say

TAFT!!!!!!!

Nepotism at it's best!!!


Man, that is the biggest puss I have ever seen!!

How does he keep getting in!!!

I bet you'll find a nice Swiss bank account full of gold coins in that guy's (family's) name!!

[MadHound]

33. Who was the dumbfuck that nodded his head and said,

"Yeah, let's diversify the state's portfolio by investing in collectibles" While coins is one of the more stable collectible markets, it is still damn risky. Metal prices go down, a large cache is found, etc. etc, and that market can go through basement. You just don't play with people's money like that. What's next, investing in comic books and baseball cards:eyes:

Don't get me wrong, I've played around in collectible markets for years, and made money at it, as have many people. But it is volitile as hell, and it isn't something that you do with money that you can't afford to lose. I've wound up eating some big bucks, or having to sit on product for years before recouping my loss. Your Worker's Comp fund just isn't structure for that kind of gig.

This is crazy stupid on so many levels, and on top of which the coins got ripped off, and are probably gone. Unless somebody did a thourough inventory of the merchandise, those coins are history. They'll be held for a couple of years until the publicity has died down, and then be sold to collectors and shops. I'm sorry for you folks in Ohio, it sounds like you have a bunch of people who are either stupid or crooked running your state into the ground. Come on over to Missouri, and help make this state blue again. At least our so called leaders aren't investing in the collectible market.

[Inland]

35. Do you put 20% of your investments in collectibles?

Some people do, because they love the collections and it's fun plus investment opportunities. But who the hell has ever heard of a state agency collecting coins?

[OzarkDem]

71. Ohio AFL-CIO head Bill Burga did

I hope he resigns, he's such an idiot. He's caused more Dems to lose elections in Ohio than you can count. What a maroon.

[Festivito]

36. Why would any gov suggest "criminal action" might be "tolerated"? LOL

"Such criminal action is outrageous and will not be tolerated,..."

..perhaps, ONLY because it is "outrageous"?

Hey guv! One says: "We will FIND AND PROSECUTE." Not: that crime "will not be tolerated."

This Tovernor Graft is a gem.

[aintitfunny]

37. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha , ha ,ha , ha ha ah ahahahahahahaha

Sorry I missed that episode.

[lonestarnot]

38. Just think... this is how they would handle private SS acounts, no wonder

bushitler salivating to get his hands on that money!

[Dukkha]

41. This sounds like a job for Batman

The "Coin Collector" struck again! This city will not be safe until that fiend is caught.

[Occulus]

43. motherFUCKING REPUBLICANS

Corruption everywhere you look. Find a Republican, find corruption. It is just that simple, isn't it?

I mean, God!!!

[redqueen]

44. And they want us to listen to their advice on Social Security?

NO THANKS!

[elehhhhna]

45. So, they'd have been better off with "Pieces of paper in a file cabinet" !

[Columbus]

47. What the Republicans are saying

From: http://www.ohiohonestelections.org/

Bennett said he is worried that the explosive inquiry involving coin dealer Thomas W. Noe — former Lucas County GOP chairman and contributor to Republican officeholders — is just the latest in a series of scandals that could haunt the party in the 2006 elections.”

“Coupled with fundraising investigations involving former state Treasurer Joseph T. Deters and former House Speaker Larry Householder, the Noe episode could enhance Democrats’ chances of making gains in a state government controlled for a decade by Republicans, Bennett acknowledged.”

“Lucas County Auditor Larry Kaczala, a Republican who plans to seek re-election in 2006, said extensive publicity about the Noe scandal could hurt Toledo-area Republicans next year.”

“Depending on what happens, I’m sure it’s going to taint us if everything doesn’t turn out all right for Tom,” Kaczala said.”

[donkeyotay]

53. Howdy, Columbus!

...extensive publicity about the Noe scandal could hurt Toledo-area Republicans next year.”

Don't you love the Republican-centricism? It's all about them, how it will look. Not the fact of the corruption, but only the idea that people will find out!

They were stealing money from a fund for disabled workers! Should we be concerned that those people will have less money available or concerned that the taxpayers will have to make up the shortage? No, let's worry about how this looks.

Hint: It makes you look like heartless f*n CROOKS!

[Columbus]

62. Ouch, donkeyotay -- I only report the news

Don't blame all Ohioans, only the Reds.

[donkeyotay]

72. Eggsactly, Columbus - only the reds. Not the blues or the messenger

Thanks for sharing that bit of insight. I know they're shocked. I'm waiting for some Republicans to question whether this party loyalty thing has gone too far - kind of let a crime family prosper under the protection of presumed morality and propriety. Who knows, after they pick their jaws up, maybe they'll help us take back the country!

:hi:

[Columbus]

74. Lots of Noe News

Only the reds.

OHEC now has a page devoted exclusively to this story.

http://www.ohiohonestelections.org/index.php?p=republican-thieves-part-1---coingate

The Coin Con

Check out the Ney stuff too.

[mod mom]

48. Link to DU investigation of NOE/Lucas County BOE-really stinks!

Election forum investigating Noe LINK:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=371800&mesg_id=371800

[mod mom]

50. ROVE and NOE connection. see link below.

Tom Noe and Karl Rove:

As a regional chairman of the campaign, Mr. Noe had frequent contact with Karl Rove, the architect of the President’s re-election. And Ohio, it turned out, was the pivotal state in the election, narrowly pushing President Bush to victory.



http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20050428&Category=NEWS24&ArtNo=50428004&SectionCat=&Template=printart

Now remember, Bernadette Noe was chairperson of Lucas County BOE, the county with such horrendous problems INCLUDING ALLOWING REPUBLICAN VOLUNTEERS UNSUPERVISED ACCESS TO UNSECURED BALLOTS PRIOR TO THE NOV 2 ELECTION!

LINK: Lucas Co Ohio BOE Investigation.
Just found at SoS site:
http://serform2.sos.state.oh.us/sos/elections/lucas.htm

[donkeyotay]

54. I am sure that all of this is just coincidence

Ohio wants their money back.

The nation wants its election back.

[OzarkDem]

58. Fundraiser for Bush

also Gov. Taft and many other high ranking puke state officials, possibly Voinovich. No wonder he was crying yesterday. Sorry George, barn door closed, cow already out, etc.


Payback is a bitch.

[TNOE]

52. I AM NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING!!!

ha - just kidding - not me - but way to go dumbass - sullying a good Dem name like Noe!

[Blue Diadem]

55. Transcript of Taft's interview back when he was defending the investments

This was early in the investigation and Taft really showed his nasty side. Too bad more reporters don't ask these kinds of questions. The Toledo Blade has done a terrific job on this.

--------------------------------------

Taft defends state's investment in rare coins
Governor says Noe's funds made money for Ohio, denies favoritism was shown


snip:

BLADE: A number of people have asked for an investigation. Should the state investigate Mr. Noe's rare coin funds?

TAFT: Whether or not I think it's needed, I know the Ohio inspector general is looking at it and he may decide to look into it, which is fine with me. We would welcome that.

In reading the articles, to me it's not unusual for our retirement systems, or any long-term fund, to invest in nonconventional, higher-risk investments to diversify their portfolios, to hedge against inflation, and also to hedge against the stock market downturns.

And accountability is built into the system. The accountability is: Do you perform? I mean, what's the return? If a company doesn't return, they're out. The bureau has probably terminated any number of companies that didn't perform. So there's a bottom line here.

Rest of transcript at:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050408/NEWS24/504080373

[MidwestTransplant]

56. Ohio is a blue state that's just a little confused right now.

[mod mom]

57. We're not confused, only victims of FRAUD! nt

[Bullshot]

59. The head of the Ohio Bureau of Workers' Comp resigned today.

Jim Conrad finally announced his resignation after having a hissy fit with the Toledo Blade over their findings at the beginning of this whole mess.

The Toledo Blade has been on top of this story for 6-7 weeks. Almost every day during that time, they uncover something new and scandalous about Tom Noe and how he's been investing public money in such volatile and speculative areas as rare coins. Now, it appears he's been taking that state money and investing it in even more speculative investments such as antique items bought at auctions. At the beginning of this whole debacle, the Republicans, led by Gov. Taft and Workers' Comp head Jim Conrad were basically writing off the Blade's findings as a partisan witch hunt.

Tom Noe is under FBI investigation for allegedly sending money to other people so that they in turn could contribute it to the Bush/Cheney campaign because Noe had already maxed out on his contributions.

There is suspicion that Noe may have been taking money from the state invested in his coin business and using it for campaign contributions to Bush/Cheney and other prominent Republicans.

But with each day, this whole thing with Tom Noe, his political ties and his investment tracking is looking shadier. And to this day, you still read LTTEs in the Toledo Blade from dumbfuck conservatives who think this whole thing has been nothing but a witch hunt on conservatives conducted by a "liberal" newspaper.

From my observation, the Toledo Blade has been one of the few media that have had the gonads to go after the Republican political machine.

All of these Johnny Come Latelies, like State Auditor Jim Petro, Attorney General Betty Montgomery and Howdy Doody Taft himself are now in damage control mode. They're supporting investigations and distancing themselves from Noe as fast as they can, even though they accepted campaign contributions from him.

Hell, you can't even get most of the Ohio Supreme Court justices to participate in any case involving Noe because most of them accepted contributions from Noe and have recused themselves, including Chief Justice Tom Moyer.

[anitar1]

65. I am sort of old, and if I recall correctly,

Taft is a dirty word from way back. Seems as if the gene is still active.

[gristy]

60. This is my favorite sentence from the NYT article

Bob Bennett, chairman of the state Republican party, said he would require ethical training for any candidate seeking GOP support.

Ethical training!!! Is that like potty training?? :rofl:

[Melynn]

66. Of course that begs the question

Does that mean that Republicans don't have any ethics before they are trained?

[leesa]

61. Well, I guess that's how the Ohio vote was purchased.

[leftofthedial]

68. I'm beginning to think that being a repuke should be a capital offense

[cliss]

69. OK: here's the worst part.

As I worked my way down the thread, a horrible realization dawned on me: this could be happening EVERYWHERE.

We shouldn't just assume that this has been going on in Ohio. Look at other states' pension programs, like CalPers which is huge. In Oregon, we have PERS.

How about all the other union funds, corporate funds, the list goes on and on.

We should start to take a close, hard look at all of them. If Rat-publicans are involved, COUNT on corruption, graft, theft.

There's an old saying: "If you see 1 rat, count 10 that you didn't see".

[donkeyotay]

73. Oh yeah. This is just one small rat in a whole pack of rats

Think AIG. If you look back at all the recent stock fraud schemes like Enron and WorldCom, you see that pension funds just have a way of being heavily invested in the worst frauds. Or, in California, from what I hear, Arnold is busy trying to steal money from the teachers' pension. Or consider the whole Social Security scheme to steal your retirement while you are otherwise occupied. Then there's the way corporations have been walking away from their pension commitments pretty much wholesale, and that's not even counting the pension guarantee fund.

You add it all up, and it looks like a whole bunch of fraud and corruption has been going on under the Republican's free market watch.

God help us. No one else will.

[lovuian]

75. Steal from Teacher State workers Social Security now Workers comp

all these funds allowed thievery and were promote by the state governor!!!

[orleans]

78. and there's blackwell caught jamming them into a black box,

closing his eyes and making wishes!

(did you sign the letter?
here's the link)

[Algorem]

80. Noe persuaded him to contribute $2,000 to Bush then reimbursed him

Governors' ex-aide linked to campaign probe

Friday, June 03, 2005

H. Douglas Talbott, a former top aide to two Ohio governors, told federal authorities that Republican coin dealer Tom Noe persuaded him to contribute $2,000 to President Bush's re-election campaign - then reimbursed him for the donation, The Plain Dealer has learned.

Talbott appeared Wednesday before a federal grand jury in Toledo that is investigating whether Noe illegally reimbursed as many as two dozen contributors to a Bush fund-raiser in October 2003. The grand jury is looking into whether Noe made the reimbursements to circumvent campaign finance laws, which limit individual contributions to $2,000.

Repeated attempts to reach Talbott were unsuccessful.

His appearance before the grand jury marked the first time a former top aide to Gov. Bob Taft and former Gov. George Voinovich has been linked to the federal investigation of possible laundering of Bush campaign money...

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1117791231263120.xml&coll=2