Insurgents Flourish in Iraq's Wild West (US "withdrawing"!)

[Barrett808]

Insurgents Flourish in Iraq's Wild West
The center of the rebel movement has shifted to Al Anbar province, near the border with Syria. But the U.S. has been moving its forces away.
By Mark Mazzetti and Solomon Moore, Times Staff Writers

WASHINGTON — The U.S. military's plan to pacify Iraq has run into trouble in a place where it urgently needs to succeed.

...

Yet U.S. troops and military officials in the embattled province said in recent interviews that they have neither enough combat power nor enough Iraqi military support to mount an effective counterinsurgency against an increasingly sophisticated enemy.

...

Some U.S. military officers in Al Anbar province say that commanders in Baghdad and the Pentagon have denied their repeated requests for more troops.

"(Commanders) can't use the word, but we're withdrawing," said one U.S. military official in Al Anbar province, who asked not to be identified because it is the Pentagon that usually speaks publicly about troop levels. "Slowly, that's what we're doing."

(more)

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-milassess24may24,1,7161030.story?coll=la-headlines-world

[knowbody0]

1. they are so outnumbered

and the "insurgency" just grows. what a plan rummy!

[Carla in Ca]

9. I posted this yesterday. From DailyKos called 'Dumbass'

President Bush:
Q: <...>And if I may ask you, Mr. President, as you know, the casualties of Iraq is again high today -- 50 more people dying. Do you think that insurgence is getting harder now to defeat militarily? Thank you.
PRESIDENT BUSH: No, I don't think so. I think they're being defeated. And that's why they continue to fight.



So if the insurgents stopped fighting, would that mean we were losing? What the hell kind of answer is this? What the hell kind of logic is this supposed to be?

[newscott]

31. I heard that quote on the radio as I was driving to work today

Boy did I get a laugh out of that one.

[jab105]

33. I would laugh...but you got these right-wing banana for brains

nodding right along with the chimp and saying...YEA!! That means we are winning...time to go buy another chinese made magnetic yellow ribbon...

BRING EM ON!(editted to clarify that I don't want them to "bring it on" but Bush seems to be implying that the more they bring it on, the more it means that we are winning...with that kind of logic, how do you lose?!?!)

[JRob]

52. it just keeps getting better.... indeed mr. bush its what you think that

matters (unfortunately).

[amber dog democrat]

10. But the Chimp said " bring em on !"

They are about to fall into our trap anytime now. Stay tuned to Fox.

[xchrom]

2. i didn't know there were enough troops is baghdad

let alone any place else in iraq.

bring them home.

[deutsey]

3. Anti-War Actions in September

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x16074

[NorCalDem]

4. "Mission Accomplished"

Ehh?

[maxsolomon]

5. exposed as a toothless tiger

its the same trap as vietnam. arabs don't think we can be brutal enough to defeat them, and they are right.

after ghandhi & MLK, we shouldn't even try.

[knowbody0]

36. we are learning

the lesson the french learned in Algiers

[bvar22]

49. and the Russians learned in Afghanistan,

and the uS learned in VietNam, but FORGOT.
Those who don't learn from History,....

[Michael_Bush]

50. I completely disagree

The Russians had to deal with mountains and very harsh winters, something we don't have to deal with in Iraq (the North is mountainous but the Kurds have that under control). Most importanly, there is no superpower providing these guys with advanced weapons.

We could have stablized Iraq and Bushco blew it. They did no post war planning to "win the peace". Disbanding the Army was insane, they should have been given some huge noble task, recreating the hanging gardens of babylon or something, anything to keep them busy, give them a sense of ownership in the new country and PAY them. Get their wives nagging hubby to go to work instead of hanging out with the bumbs at the mosque. Give them the job of tearing down aba Grab and some of Saddams palaces and moving the stones across the street and building a new People's Building or something.

We should have secured the ammo dumps, that was criminal negligence on the part of somebody. The borders should have been shut down.

I was against the war for a host of reasons but despite the massive blunders piled on blunders, they did get a parliment elected and almost go the Sunni to participate. A bit more stability and done sooner and it would have worked. I am big enough to recognize my enemies accomplishments. I think if they had listened to the Military they would have pulled it off but Rumsfeld just had to show them who was smarter and now we know.

[oblivious]

64. You say 'they' did get a parliament elected.

I was under the impression that the only reason the US went along with elections is that Sistani demanded it, so figuring they could rig it, they pretended that it was their idea all along, and made that the new reason for the invasion.

[Toots]

61. If you don't think Americans can be & are brutal then you are quite Naive

Americans are perhaps the most brutal fighters on the face of the earth. Barbarians is what they are that enjoy torture and death.

[Straight Shooter]

6. Spin it, Scotty-mouth.

I can't wait to hear what the new definition of "withdrawing" is from the White House :eyes:

[JohnyCanuck]

12. Advancing to the rear, maybe? n/t

[Straight Shooter]

16. LOL!

"Tactical retreat" perhaps?

[NuttyFluffers]

47. bravely ran away! :D n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

60. Ah yes! "Re-deployment of Operations"

What a mess. :cry:

[Career Prole]

7. "...commanders...have denied their repeated requests for more troops"

"Hold on", they probably said. "The conscripts will be here soon!"

[amber dog democrat]

8. We need to start building 'Droids.

and quick. But I am not even sure if battalions of battle bots would be effective against a savvy and adaptive opponant. I sure hope we get an exit strategy soon.
I fear we are going to need it. In the meantime, I am reassured that freedom contuinues to be on the march.

[Selatius]

11. I think the US just admitted defeat in Al Anbar if this is true.

They're slowly pulling out. That province will belong to the resistance now.

[bemildred]

13. Well, a disorderly retreat would not look good either.

Frankly, I'm surprised it took this long.
That "Operation Matador" dog-and-pony show they just
put on was 1000 troops. Fallujah was around 15K.
We have something like that in all of Afghanistan.
This is feeble shit.

[Barrett808]

26. And the Afghanistan adventure faces "complete strategic failure"

Secret UK troops plan for Afghan crisis
BRIAN BRADY
WESTMINSTER EDITOR
22 May 2005

DEFENCE chiefs are planning to rush thousands of British troops to Afghanistan in a bid to stop the country sliding towards civil war, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.

Ministers have been warned they face a "complete strategic failure" of the effort to rebuild Afghanistan and that 5,500 extra troops will be needed within months if the situation continues to deteriorate.

An explosive cocktail of feuding tribal warlords, insurgents, the remnants of the Taliban, and under-performing Afghan institutions has left the fledgling democracy on the verge of disintegration, according to analysts and senior officers.

The looming crisis in Afghanistan is a serious setback for the US-led 'War on Terror' and its bid to promote western democratic values around the world.

Defence analysts say UK forces are already so over-stretched that any operation to restore order in Afghanistan can only succeed if substantial numbers of troops are redeployed from Iraq, itself in the grip of insurgency.

The UK contribution to the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan presently stands at fewer than 500, compared with the contribution of 8,000 troops to the Coalition presence in Iraq.

Planners at the UK military's Northolt headquarters have drawn up emergency proposals to send up to 5,500 troops to Afghanistan to help avert a descent into more widespread bloodshed.

(more)

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=559872005

[JusticeForAll]

55. this is even worse news

thanks for posting, Barrett.

[Barrett808]

57. No problemo, necessary info n/t

[JohnyCanuck]

14. I'm betting they'll bring in the B52s next

and flatten everything in sight.

[bemildred]

19. Maybe, kind of the wrong image though.

But definitely one of the few options left, like just
turning the place into green glass to "save it".

[smoogatz]

20. They tried the equivalent in Fallujah

Didn't work.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

23. Didn't they try that with Fallujah?

If I'm not mistaken it's in Al Anbar Province. Doesn't seem to have cured the problem, does it? They would have to flatten all of Iraq if they want this to stop. I think they just may be beginning to realize that, too.

[UpInArms]

15. OMG! the last paragraph was incredible

"We're here and they're there," said Maj. Todd Waldemar, head of civil affairs for the 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines, a reserve unit stationed at the Haditha Dam in Al Anbar. "We kind of walk around in a security bubble, so to speak, that makes it kind of hard for us to figure out exactly what's going on."

[bemildred]

17. Yeah, isn't that choice. nt

[leftchick]

22. unfuckingbelievable! Can we Say Clusterfuck?

FUBAR? Bring the troops the hell home if you don't know WTF is going on!!

:grr:

[smoogatz]

18. Treason!

The LAT's reporting of this story will cause the insurgents to fight harder, putting our troops at risk! We're only losing because the librul media occasionally report something approaching the truth about Iraq, instead of focusing on the positive--like all the Americans and Iraqis who AREN'T dead. Yet.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smoogatz]

35. Yeah--good catch.

Way over the top.

[Nordmadr]

21. Wow, just wow.

The longer we are there, the more needless death that will happen on both sides. Whether we stay or leave, there is going to be war...civil that is...so we might as well get our soldiers out and leave the dying to others.

As an aside, does it not seem odd that we are now focusing on the Syrian border? I wonder how long before we cross over?

Olaf

[0007]

24. 0h God! what has junior gone and done in his secret society?

Tommy Franks saw the hand writing on the wall, didn't he? And in reality he is a war criminal along with the rest of the generals, including the commander in chief.

[atreides1]

28. Franks saw this coming

He didn't have to retire, he had done such a "great" job that he could have remained in command of CENTCOM, but he knew that Bush and
Rummy had "screwed the pooch" on this whole operation, and he got out
while the getting was good. So now this fiasco will be pinned on General Abizaid, and it's only a matter of time before the fundies and the freepers point out that Abizaid is of Arab ancestry, and maybe his heart wasn't really in killing his "own" people.

Anyone want to bet on this?

And let's not forget that Franks got his Presidental Medal of Freedom too. Along with Paul "let's disband the Iraqi Army" Bremer, and George "It's a Slam Dunk" Tenant, jus like the government, fuck up and move up.

[NNN0LHI]

25. I thought this used to be called retreating?

Yea sure we are going to invade Iran or NKorea which would be about a hundred times worse than Iran. We are witnessing the defeat of an empire. Whoda thunk?

Don

[Selatius]

27. Retreat? Hell no! We're just advancing in the opposite direction!

Who said that? McArthur? I forgot, but the quote came from the Korean War.

[eridani]

32. It was Julius Caesar who always used to say

"We withdrew to a better position." At least that's how we translated it in 2nd year Latin.

[kurtyboy]

45. LT GEN OP Smith, USMC

Battle of Chosin Reservoir

On November 27, 1950, a Chinese army of some 60,000 men poured over
Korea's border intent on wiping out a force of 12,000 U.S. Marines marching north to the Yalu river on General Douglas MacArthur's orders. Three Marine regiments were strung out along 80 miles of a narrow mountain road that snaked its way up sweeping slopes to the high plateau of the Chosin Reservoir. Winter had arrived, a merciless wind driving temperatures down to a bone-chilling 30 below.

Soon the Marines were completely surrounded by eight Chinese divisions who suddenly emerged from hiding to pounce on the unsuspecting Americans. In five days and nights of below-zero winds they fought back the waves of attacking Chinese before they reorganized for the epic escape down frozen mountain trails. Running a bloody gauntlet all the way to the sea, they managed to bring their wounded and equipment with them, giving birth to the ringing battle cry ever after associated with the Marines: "Retreat, hell, no! We're attacking in another direction."

Lieutenant General O.P. Smith

Proud moment for the US Marine Corps--they brought everyone back....

[Gloria]

30. So, no troops to fight OR close the border on the Iraq side....which

means we blame Syria for not stopping all the infiltration, and we have an excuse for another war on that front.....

GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (nuts)


And we now read that Syria is no longer cooperating with the CIA and troops us on the border stuff and intelligence.....

[Strelnikov_]

34. Just Like Nam

Sweep an area, leave, and the opponent just filters back in.

So much for spending as much on our Military as the rest of the world combined. All kinds of bucks spent on high-tech junk, and not enough money/resources for troopers to hold the ground they paid for with their blood.

When do the idiots of this Country see this for what it is . . . Treason.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, the whole lot, should be tried for capital crimes committed against the troops and the people of Iraq.


"It's classically the wrong thing to do," said Kalev Sepp, a professor at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif., who last fall was a counterinsurgency advisor to Army Gen. George W. Casey, the top U.S. general in Iraq. "Sending 1,000 men north of the Euphrates does what? Sometimes these things can be counterproductive, because you just end up shooting things up and then leaving the area."

Military officials in Iraq and Washington said there was little reason to expect that insurgent fighters would not return to the villages.

"The right thing to do would have been to sweep the area with U.S. troops, and hold it with Iraqi troops," said a military official and counterinsurgency expert at the Pentagon who spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not an official Pentagon spokesman.

Yet, there were no Iraqi troops to leave in the area. Just one platoon of Iraqi troops is stationed in the far west Al Anbar province, garrisoned at a phosphate plant in the town of Qaim. But those troops were on leave during the week of Operation Matador, taking their paychecks home to their families.

[Michael_Bush]

37. Guerrilla warfare

You seem to have a grasp of warfare so I got a question for you.

We seem to have taken the counterinsurgency rule book, turned it inside out and are doing everything backwards. We work overtime to piss of the Muslim world, we don't seek to shut down the borders, we are not working to stabilize the farther, more peaceful regions (the Kurds seem to be busy but that is their own doing), I can't see much we are doing that has classically been taught to counter an insurgency.

I constantly hear quotes from mid level officers (as you know, the guys who have actually led in combat) who say, things are going to hell, or at least they are asking rhetorically, "what are we doing".

Somebody higher up with political savvy HAS to see they are breeding a LOT of unrest and resentment in the troops. The troops are being used up in every way as is equipment.

So, what ARE we doing? Do they WANT Iraq to fail?

I was wondering if that was their plan, spend lots of money on defense and "construction" and milk it for as long as they can, let Iraq sink into chaos and then harvest the oil a few decades from now for an even higher price.

[bemildred]

38. It's like this.

The fuckwits that are running this show were low to mid-level
fuckwits back in the day, and they have never admitted that any
mistakes were made in VietNam, hence they have learned NOTHING
from it and are busy repeating ALL the mistakes in the name of
showing that they were actually right all along back then. OK?

[Michael_Bush]

40. Oh that is horrible

but it does make a lot of sense. There is a part of me that was at least hoping there was some reason, even a sinister reason behind all this rather than simply dull witted idiocy.

[Selatius]

54. My folks saw this first hand...in Vietnam

My family was on the receiving end of the US war in Vietnam. What's happening here is pretty much what my folks saw back in Vietnam. US troops would battle VC and even NVA regulars in an area, clean it out, then move on, and the communists would slowly come back in and reclaim the area. It was a pointless waste, and then they would do a number on civilians thought to have collaborated with the US while they held the ground. Of course, by the end of the war, many people had thrown in their lot with the VC and other smaller nationalist resistance groups, or they fled (like my parents), or they died.

[DulceDecorum]

41. President or prophet?

Is George W. Bush insane?
http://www.unknownnews.net/apocalypsenow.html

Are extremist Christians and Zionists trying to force the "Rapture"?
http://www.unknownnews.net/cdd040302.html

"Who is this coming from Edom, with sullied garments from Basra?" (Isaiah 63:1) is the question an anonymous onlooker asks G-d when he sees G-d returning as a warrior from the battlefield of Basra. "I soiled my garments <in My war against evil in Basra>," G-d responds, "for a day of vengeance is in My heart and the year of my redemption has come."
http://www.kabbalaonline.org/Society/currentevents/The_Kabbala_of_Basra.asp

9. . If one can be bold in making a further application to this prophecy, which fits the jig-saw of events the the following is possible:
a) There was never in the history of mankind that the entire World (28 Nations) with GB (Great Brittain) and US (United States America) under the banner of the UN went to war against one little country called Iraq as it happened in 1991, and defeated it by coming over the from the West by ships and planes without touching the ground. This war began at Kuwait and at Basra - This fits items a. b. & c. much more precisely than the old 321BC application of Alexander the Great.. UPDATE- Now the US/GB UN coalition attack on (old Medo Persia- IRAQ/IRAN and Arab States will happen again.The prophecy states that this event is divided into two parts, not one part as it was with Alexander the Great.
b) The first horn (Iraq) was defeated, by the UN forces in 1991, but the second horn ?? is yet to show itself, and then the second stage of this war will continue.
UPDATE The second horn is ready to show itself in the present war with Iraq. (It is feasable that the second horn could represent Iran coalition with other arab nations under the Islamic radicals)
c) There's little doubt that the events of September 11 instigated by Islamic/Arab radicals is part of a the trigger that will bring on stage two of this conflict...UPDATE- Stage 2 has started on 20-3-03
http://www.lastdaysreporter.com/daniel_8.html

The Downing Street "Memo" is actually a document containing meeting minutes transcribed during the British Prime Minister's meeting on July 23, 2002—a full eight months PRIOR to the invasion of Iraq on March 20, 2003. The Times of London printed the text of this document on Sunday, May 1, 2005, but to date US media coverage has been limited. This site is intended to act as a resource for anyone who wants to understand the facts revealed in this document.
The contents of the memo are shocking. The minutes detail how our government did not believe Iraq was a greater threat than other nations; how intelligence was "fixed" to sell the case for war to the American public; and how the Bush administration’s public assurances of "war as a last resort" were at odds with their privately stated intentions.
http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

I tried to believe. I watched those quarter mile high buildings fall through their jaw-dropping catastrophes over and over again. I listened to the announcer and the experts explain what had happened. And I worked at my pitiful lack of faith, pounding my skull with the remote control and staring at the flickering images on the TV screen.
But poor mental peasant that I am, I could not escape the teachings of my forefathers. I fear I am trapped in my time, walled off from further scientific understanding by my inability to abandon the Second Millennium mindset.
But enough of myself. Let us move on to the Science and Technology of the 21st Century. Those of you who cannot believe should learn the official truth by rote and perhaps you will be able to hide your ignorance.
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/mslp_i.htm

Muslims Suspend Laws of Physics!
Part II
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/mslp_ii.htm

[Strelnikov_]

44. Incompetence, Greed, And The Most Cynical Political Leadership

in the history of the country.

Incompetence - Did not listen to military leadership regarding force requirements for stabilization operations. Civilian leadership that feels that modern wiz-bang weapons are all you need. Hell, at one point in the summer of 02 I read an article where the Joint Chiefs were having to talk the civilian leadership out of dropping the 101st into Saddam Intl. the first day of the invasion. As for whiz-bang weapons, it appears that the assault rifle and single man AT weapon (RPG) are pretty big equalizers once you leave the maneuver field.

Greed - Read Harpers, "Baghdad Year Zero". Free market wild west "land grab" prevented restoration of infrastructure and labor market during the critical 9 month window after "Mission Accomplished".

Cynical Political Leadership - Instead of taking the difficult political step of either 1) pulling back and asking for help hat in hand or 2) committing the monetary and manpower requirements to have a chance to succeed (too late now IMO), they chose 3) make due with the resources they could obtain without incurring negative political fallout so they could retain their prime positions for looting the US (loop back to greed). A truly unique way to "Support The Troops".

So, politics is making what would have been a long shot to begin with worse than impossible.

At least LBJ tried to win.

[tuckessee]

59. Yes, they want to "fail" in Iraq.

That's the best way to expand the war to other nations.

A major civil war between Sunni and Shi'ite would please the PNAC'ers immensely because it's likely to eventually draw in or spread to Iran and Syria.

You are very astute to notice that almost everything the US has done in Iraq has been purposely wrong, strategically and politically.

The same is true in this case, essentially abandoning al-Anbar to the Resistance.

This will strengthen the radical element of the Sunnis who will naturally exploit the vaccuum left in the unrepresented and now unoccupied Sunni province. The Americans may let the Sunni's flex their muscles for a while then move in with another Fallujah type operation but this will only strengthen the guerillas and help build a large, angry block of Sunni militants. They will also find themselves better armed with supplies smuggled across the Syrian border.

A significant, armed and pissed-off Shi'ite element exists in Sadr's militia. Remember how we spanked him around with that murder warrant a while back?

Eventually the two sides will fight, just like caged dogs in an arena.

Iran backed Shi'ites vs. Syria based Sunnis - a PNAC'ers wet dream.

[TheGunslinger]

39. Goddamn PNAC bastards!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[oxbow]

42. This quote floored me:

"I really want to believe that we are making great progress right now," said the counterinsurgency expert at the Pentagon. "What's killing us right now, literally and figuratively, is the foreign fighters. We just need to catch a few breaks."

At the same time, the official said he expected it would take years to finish the job.

"If we can win this thing in six years, we're setting new land speed records," he said.

I guess the timeline has moved from years to decades now

[TacticalPeek]

43. Excellent article.

Tip o' the hat to Solomon Moore, for being there.

[Barrett808]

46. Could it be that they were unable to build all 14 bases?

Now they're going to retreat to the four they were able to build? Total speculation, but...

[The_Casual_Observer]

48. It's hell trying to supply 14 of them using those highways.

Four will be safer.

[shanti]

51. we're withdrawing?

that can only mean one thing. this area has a bullseye on it.

[nedbal]

53. Iraq Offensive Launched Against Insurgents in this vast western region

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4600115

About 1,000 US Marines, sailors and soldiers encircled the Euphrates River city of Haditha in the troubled Anbar province, killing at least three insurgents after launching the second major anti-insurgent operation in this vast western region in less than a month.

The offensives are aimed at uprooting insurgents who have killed more than 620 people since a new Iraqi government was announced on April 28.

[leftchick]

56. Withdrawing to Bases. Not out of Iraq.

The USA will never pull out of Iraq as long as bushco** is in charge and there is money to be made.

[Zerex71]

58. Mission Accomplished!

[Norquist Nemesis]

62. So, is this the same operation with 1,000 troops that

I heard about on this morning's news? The news made it sounds like it's only been in operation a couple of days...a "new" offensive in the western part of Iraq.

[Barrett808]

63. It's amazing how the news whiplashes every day

One day it's "Osama on the run," and the next it's "Osama may never be caught."

In Iraq, substitute "Zarqawi."