House Backs Loosening Limits on Stem Cell Funding

[rodeodance]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/24/politics/24cnd-stem.html?hp&ex=1116993600&en=f807a6d4937072b0&ei=5094&partner=homepage


May 24, 2005
House Backs Loosening Limits on Stem Cell Funding


By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
Hours before the House was to vote on federal financing for embryonic stem cell research, President Bush forcefully denounced the practice today, saying that despite the potential for medical breakthroughs, that the use of human embryos in the studies was too high a cost to pay.

"This bill would take us across a critical ethical line by creating new incentives for the ongoing destruction of emerging human life," the president said at the White House. "Crossing this line would be a great mistake."

"Research on stem cells derived from human embryos may offer great promise, but the way those cells are derived today destroys the embryo," said the president who was speaking before a group of parents who had children using embryos that had been created for other couples using fertility treatments. The president's remarks were intended to help sway wavering members of Congress who were scheduled to vote on two bills that would ease restrictions on federal government financing for stem cell research. President Bush has pledged to veto one of the bills because he says it would destroy life to save life.

His remarks on the day the House was scheduled to vote underscored Mr. Bush's personal commitment to holding the line on embryonic stem cell research........

[WI_DEM]

1. It's a victory for Nancy Reagan over George W. Bush

[rodeodance]

2. yes,--and the Dems in the Senate want to get a bill to Bush pronto

--but wonder if Frist will alllow it?

[rodeodance]

3. "This is not about life, this is about saving life." (R. Sen said this)

........Representative Charles Bass, a New Hampshire Republican, who said he will vote for the embryonic stem cell bill, said, "This is not about life, this is about saving life."

Supporters of the embryonic stem cell legislation said they had enough support for passage, but were unsure whether they could pull together the required two-thirds votes to override a presidential veto.

In 2001, President Bush prohibited federal financing of research on embryonic stem cells, except work on the limited number of cell lines developed before his decision.

Addressing the nation in August 2001, Mr. Bush said: "I have concluded that we should allow federal funds to be used for research on these existing stem cell lines, where the life and death decision has already been made.

[K-W]

8. This is a huge winning issue for Democrats,

this is no abortion. It is in fact opposite of abortion in that peoples natural instincts are to side with those who would cure disease, whereas in abortion peoples natural instinct is to be uncomfortable with the termination of pregnancies. Wheareas we must overcome peoples irrational emotions to educate them on the realities of abortion, we need do no such thing to win the stem cell battle. We simply need to hammer home the fact that republicans are holding back medical science and use it to marginalize the religous right.

Evolution and Stem Cells are the issues that can totally reverse the trends and re marginalize the dogmatic religious right.

[DeepModem Mom]

24. FINALLY, a week has begun that's not so good for the "Religious Right"...

how I wish we could, mainstream churches and all, throw off the yoke they've bound us in. I'm a member of a mainstream church, and I'm sick of these misguided nutjobs. Give us life, and light, in the true name of God.

[saigon68]

52. HILL BILLY FASCISM RUN AMOK

They hate gays would stone them to death.

They love their "GOD", GUNS and killing RAGHEADS

They love the Fraud and War Criminal from Connecticut, with the PHONY TEXAS accent.

[connecticut yankee]

53. Don't Blame Connecticut

We don't want him. He was born here, but was raised in Texas.

We're a True Blue state!

[jayctravis]

41. Hypocritical?

How many people did Texas execute when he was governor?

[Coastie for Truth]

31. MISTER Frist

First, "MISTER" is a title of respect in a free democratic republic.

Second, the U.S. Constitution, Article, Section 9, Clause 8, provides

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

I believe that in the case of MISTER Frist, the title of "Doctor" is a "title of nobility" since he isn't any Marcus Welby or Albert Schweitzer.

Back to the original point - I could give a darn what MISTER Frist thinks.

1) He said you can get AIDs from tears.

2) He said condoms are ineffective.

3) He diagnosed Terri Schiavo long distance based on a heavily edited home video.

4) He (his company - HCA Healthcare Corp) closed the busiest Trauma Center in our city -- then held up the County Supervisors to pay him to build a new one at the Alexian Brothers substance abuse rehab center that he (his company - HCA Healthcare Corp) bought.

5) He reminds me of the arse hole thoracic surgeon in Denzel Washington's "John Q."

[Skittles]

47. Nancy Reagan only cares because of her piece of shit husband

she never gave a damn about ordinary folk

[Greylyn58]

4. I have to admit, I am stunned by this outcome

I truly thought this bill would go down in flames because of the "Rapture Rightists". Dobson and his gang won't be happy about this and I have to say this makes me happy.

This is indeed a win for Nancy Reagan and all those who pray that there will someday be a cure to their particular disease.

I'm personally thrilled. :)

[Carla in Ca]

26. my thoughts exactly

Seems Congress is almost defying him this week. They are voting their consciences and if *ush vetoes, he is all alone with nobody else to blame. LOVE IT!


PS-love the pic of your dog. Please tell me how to insert a pic that is permanent with each post. Thanks.

[sadiesworld]

51. There's big $$$ to be made off of stem cell research.

The fundies will always lose when their interests conflict with corporate ones.

[chomskysright]

56. HELLLLOOOOO bubba

[DanCa]

5. Thank you Stem cell supporters

A cure for parkinsons is just arround the corner. I know it. Thanks to stem cell supporters far and wide.

[fishnfla]

6. Those embryos in the fertility clinics are leftovers, toss 'em

What just happens with the frozen embryos leftover?

[Arkansas Granny]

59. Most are discarded

Found a lot of info on this subject here:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_inco.htm

An interesting thought that I heard the other day was to consider the donation of these leftover embryos as you would an organ donation from a baby that had died. To me, the ethics would be much the same.

[AllyCat]

7. Remember, RWs are about creating more taxpayers,

not preserving the ones we have. These people have no interest in life or quality of life. Just sheer numbers...lets just talk about the numbers.

That said, this is a huge boost for those of us that are actually interested in helping those around us with disabling and life-threatening illnesses.

[ooglymoogly]

16. about more poor to rally to their unholy cause

[wryter2000]

9. Never mind

Got my answer

[Vincardog]

10. Isn't it ironic that the first Bill the shrub will veto is the one that

has the potential to actually help people? How much clearer could it be? aWoL LIES to convince US to invade and occupy a country that posed no threat to us, for the benefit of the Carlyle Group and Haliburton. Then his handlers make it illegal for US to escape crushing debt in bankruptcy at the same time their Corporate
Co-Conspirators GO BANKRUPT and shift their retirement costs to the Taxpayer.

The Radical Right works for CAPITAL against US People.
They are FASCIST Thugs and need to be charges and convicted in the World Court.

[mwb970]

35. This was the first thing I thought of too.

Bush hasn't vetoed a single spending or tax cut bill as we slide into national bankruptcy, then when Mr. "Culture Of Life" finally does seriously threaten a veto, it is to restrict life-saving scientific research.

Culture of Life! Don't make me laugh.

[ooglymoogly]

11. this is huge

and it's a huge issue, and a huge win...almost a veto proof win...huge huge huge huge...will make the sob think twice about a veto

[Semi_subversive]

12. Don't you wish for a moment

that Daddy Bush pulled out a little sooner. This idiot is such a piece of sub-human garbage!

[ClintonTyree]

32. Yeah...

the best part of dumbya ran down the crack of Bab's ass. But the human race is stuck with him and we have to do our best to work around him.

[TommyO]

42. Reminds me of the movie, the Granny

The Granny

Picture Babs, to *, "you're the load I should have swallowed."

[nine30]

13. Why * didn't veto

While I am inclined to give *some* credit to * for not vetoing, keep in mind that he no longer has to worry about the votes of the religious fanatics.

[nine30]

14. I take that back

238-194 was almost a veto over riding vote (2/3 majority). If * vetoed he would have looked even more of a dumb ass.

[Old and In the Way]

18. If it passes the Senate, then it goes to him for signature....I think.

If he veto's it, it goes back to the House who can vote to overide...if they have the numbers.

I doubt that it makes it to his desk....watch for Frist to play "hide the bill". Sorta his own version of a filibuster....

[deanathon]

28. 50 votes short

288-142 would have been veto proof.

Bush has already said he will veto it.

Dems should have put the stem cell on an amendment for a must pass bill so they could have gotten the two thirds veto proof requirement.

This issue is too important to waste time passing bills that will be veteod anyway.

[progressivejazz]

15. He hasn't had a chance to veto it yet,

that's why he didn't veto it. But he will if he gets the chance.

He's still playing to the pseudochristian extremists.

[Barak And Roll]

17. Bush Veto

Dems should call it "Bush's Veto Against Life" if it gets to him. Use some of their own methods against them. "Frist's Veto Against Life" would work equally well if they try to kill it in the Senate.

[Skittles]

48. he enjoys f***ing people

any people

[CoolOnion]

19. "...science which destroys life in order to save life, I'm against that."

"I made very clear to the Congress that the use of federal money, taxpayers' money, to promote science which destroys life in order to save life, I'm against that."

So...we're not going to use taxpayer dollars to build any more weapons? We're not going to send any more kids to war?

Is it just me, or is Shrubya being a hypocrite? Wasn't the whole purpose of the war to sacrifice the lives of our soldiers for the freedom of the Iraqi people? So why not sacrifice a frozen embryo--which will be thrown away, otherwise--to give new life to children with diabetes, to elderly people with Alzheimer's, to people with spinal cord injuries?

[nine30]

23. doesn't that make it a zero-sum game then ? :)

[Straight Shooter]

20. bush speaks as if those are itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny babies thrown out.

They aren't. "Embryo" is a scientific term.

bush is a prime candidate for a disease in his upcoming years that will benefit from stem cell research. He should shut his yap and let the adults be in charge, for once.

[ClintonTyree]

34. Scientific?

What is this "scientific" you speak of? You mean GOD made it and all things can be explained through GOD'S word. :eyes: Scientific... :rofl: Stop, you're killing me!

[chomskysright]

57. NC pastor, Chan Chandler's prayers for those....

poor little babies in their mother's wombs.

Yes, I heard him make those prayers....calling forth the demons associated with abortion issues in order to carve out a place for himself within the East Waynesville Baptist Church.

ditto: the gentleman who prayed after him.

Shade of Mary!

[ooglymoogly]

21. bart stupak d. mich. i had to do a double take.... this guy is a dem???

he is one of the 15 or so dems who voted with the religious right and preached a puckup sermon. does anybody have a list of the dems who voted with the gop?

[opusprime]

22. But taking life in an illegitimate war is OK??

I'm getting mexed missages here. Let me see if I got this right.

It's ok to start a war and kill untold tens of thousands for corporatism and profiteering.

But it's immoral to study human embryos that are going to be destroyed regardless?

Once again, Bush makes zero sense. Welcome to the United States of Confusion.

[nine30]

25. Their hearts bleed for a wad of discarded tissue..

..that could otherwise save the life of a living breathing human.

Here they are ..using the Bible to promote a culture of death !!

(letting REAL humans die, while cytoplasm and protoplasm and ectoplasm and what-have-you live happily inside glass jars )


edited for typo

[jmcon007]

27. What are we doing in Iraq, Mr Monkey? Giving life to save it?

President Chimp needs to quit his morality act. Is there anyone anywhere who honestly thinks that Bush gives a damn about anyone's life other than his own?
Give me a frigging break. Please.

[sinkingfeeling]

29. CBS News had Bush saying, "There are no embryos to spare".

I guess he doesn't believe sceience....less than 1/3 of all fertilized eggs ever come to term. Most do not even get implanted and so are miscarried. Guess God thinks there are plenty to spare.

[Coastie for Truth]

30. Stem Cell Research - and Treatments - Are A First Amendment Right

My religious community permits and encourages stem cell research, as set out in this and

The sets out the policy of the Orthodox movement, viz:

Our Torah tradition places great value upon human life; we are taught in the opening chapters of Genesis that each human was created in G-d's very image. The potential to save and heal human lives is an integral part of valuing human life from the traditional Jewish perspective. Moreover, our rabbinic authorities inform us that an isolated fertilized egg does not enjoy the full status of person-hood and its attendant protections. Thus, if embryonic stem cell research can help us preserve and heal humans with greater success, and does not require or encourage the destruction of life in the process, it ought to be pursued.

Nevertheless, we must emphasize, that research on embryonic stem cells must be conducted under careful guidelines. Critical elements of these guidelines, from our perspective, relate to where the embryonic stem cells to be researched upon are taken from. We believe it is entirely appropriate to utilize for this research existing embryos, such as those created for IVF purposes that would otherwise be discarded but for this research. We think it another matter to create embryos ab initio for the sole purpose of conducting this form of research.

Because of the ethical concerns presented by embryonic stem cell research and the reports of potentially garnering similar benefits from research on adult stem cells, we would urge you to simultaneously increase funding for adult stem cell research.

Other elements of an ethically sensitive oversight regime would include a rigorous informed consent process from future IVF procedure participants, a fully funded and empowered oversight body comprised of scientists and bio-ethicists, and periodic reviews by relevant Executive branch agencies and congressional committees.

The is more academic, and sets out a parallel line of reasoning:

May a very early embryo be sacrificed for stem cells? Now that we have analyzed the possible ethical issues in destroying pre-embryos, what is the final outcome? For non-Jews, the issue appears most direct. The combination of the pre-embryo never having existed within a uterus and the generally accepted leniency toward abortion within the first forty days, would strongly argue for a permissive ruling regarding the destruction of pre-embryos for stem cells.

Regarding Jews, the answer is more complicated. Since stem cell research is a new endeavor and cloning of humans has not yet occurred, there are no published responsa on the topic. We must, therefore, look to more practical cases that encompass our question to find an applicable ruling. We find such an issue with respect to the best course of action for couples who wish to avoid having children with Tay Sachs disease when both partners are carriers of the Tay Sachs gene. A similar problem arises in families where the wife carries a gene for a sex-linked disease, such as Fragile-X.

The most promising option for such couples is preimplantation diagnosis, in which a zygote conceived in vitro has a few cells removed to be tested for genetic defects before implantation. Only a zygote that is not homozygous for Tay Sachs or not a male carrier of Fragile-X would be implanted. Rabbi Yosef Shalom Eliyashuv, possibly the most influention posek in Israel today, has permitted preimplantation diagnosis and destruction of affected zygotes to prevent cases of Fragile-X and even in a case of a woman with neurofibromatosis who only had skin lesions. Rabbi Dovid Feinstein has taken a similar view as to the permissibility of discarding "extra" pre-embryos. Pre-implantation diagnosis, which is already accepted by some Rabbinic authorities, is likely to be acceptable to most Jewish legal experts when used to prevent serious diseases in offspring.

Based on these rulings, it would seem that we now have a practical answer to our question of stem cell research. If the pre-embryo may be destroyed, it certainly may be used for research purpose and other life-saving work. In fact, Rabbi Moshe Dovid Tendler, in testimony for the National Bioethics Advisory Commission, argued strongly in favor of the use of pre-embryos for stem cell research. Nevertheless, it is important to realize that this conclusion is not unanimous and that all of these rulings are predicated upon the understanding that the pre-embryo is not included in the prohibition of retzicha (murder).

The bottom line, so far, is that Halacha permits stem cell research.

So, we ask the second question, what issues arise when stem cell research -- and the therapies derived therefrom -- are denied because of sectarian (in the "sect specific" sense) scriptural interpretations?

We start from the Bill of Rights:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The two clauses of the First Amendment:

1. The "establishment" clause -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

2. The "free exercise" clause -- Congress shall make no law ... ... prohibiting the free exercise thereof.



To a person with a disease "manageable" or "curable" by a stem cell derived therapy - and whose faith permits such therapy --- the use of such stem cell derived therapy is the "free exercise" of their religion.

To prohibit their use of such therapy because of a sect specific scriptural interpretation amounts to the "establishment" of a religion.

Access to stem cell research derived therapies is a constitutionally protected right. At the very least violates the Constitution.

I would go so far as to argue that a ban on Federal funding - for sect specific theocratic reasons, amounts to a proscribed "establishment" of A specific religion.

[Catfight]

33. Bush sounds so stupid about this subject. It's about pandering to

his religious wacko jughead followers. What a dufus-ass to condemn to death living breathing cells of whole human beings while he was governor, and president, however, some little dot in a petri dish gets more of his heart felt attention than human life. He's a complete buffoon for a president. He is president of the wrong era, should be 17th century.

[Dawgs]

36. Anybody else think that the Republicans already see Bush as a lame duck?

God forbid, if you were a Republican Congressmen would you want to be associated with anything Bush does these days?

[Erika]

38. Yes! n/t

[KC21304]

37. Digby's Saturday entry is great on this.

The pictures won't copy for me so here is the link. Go to Sat. Stem Sell.

http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com/

[chomskysright]

58. "compromise that cuts both ways": Digby:

The fact is that on the substance, this deal is a compromise that cuts both ways. That's what compromises usually do. But for Democrats, who have virtually no power anyway, it is as important to be seen as strong and resolute as it is to actually win. The game we are really playing is for 2006. Because let's face it, this is a Republican majority government and they can, if they really want to, do any damned thing they please whether we like it or not.

The far right and religious fanatic base is not going to convert to the Democratic party. We need to prove to the moderates, independents and western libertarians that we are tough enough. If James Dobson and Rush Limbaugh want to portray us as dragon slayers, more power to them. They have a big microphone. Let them use it to shout to the world about the big meanie Dems and the sniveling cowardly Republicans who buckled under to them. Works for me.

http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com/

[KC21304]

60. I was referring to the Saturday entry on stem cell research.

It has a picture of a clump of cells, which Bush does not want to destroy to save lives, and a picture of dead Iraqi children who were destroyed " to save lives "

[siliconefreak]

39. a poll

Stem-cell research is winning by a huge margin at this online poll, but if you feel inclined to vote on the issue:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7834030/

[Erika]

40. Our scientists will cure hair loss & impotence

while the rest of the world comes up with real research based on embryonic cell stem research. MSNBC stated over 400,000 of these embryos in fertility clinics are now destined for destruction.

Is Bush even of this planet anymore?

[Pirate Smile]

43. WP: House Defies Bush on Stem Cells

House Defies Bush on Stem Cells
50 Republicans Help Pass Bill to Repeal Restrictions on Federal Funding

By Mike Allen and Ceci Connolly
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, May 25, 2005; Page A01

Defying President Bush's threat to impose his first veto, a broad swath of House Republicans voted with an overwhelming number of Democrats yesterday to repeal his restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research and plunge the government deeper into the controversial science that supporters say could lead to cures for debilitating diseases.

The 238 to 194 vote, unusual because 50 Republicans broke with Bush and top House leaders, followed a highly personalized, occasionally tearful debate in which a parade of lawmakers recounted medical tragedies that had afflicted their families, while opponents contended that the science is built on destroying human lives.

The legislation, which has strong support in the Senate, would make federal money available for research on embryonic stem cells extracted from frozen embryos donated by couples who no longer need them for fertility treatments. It would lift a restriction imposed by Bush nearly four years ago that limits federally funded research to fewer than two dozen embryonic stem cell colonies, or lines.

-snip-
The vote carried an echo of Monday's Senate deal that averted a showdown over Bush's judicial appointments, with moderate lawmakers working across the aisle to triumph over their party leaders. The stem cell bill, which was opposed by 14 Democrats, was sponsored by Rep. Michael N. Castle (Del.), president of the moderate Republican Main Street Partnership, and Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.), who spent two years building a winning coalition. House leaders scheduled yesterday's vote so that the contentious issue would not be raised repeatedly as an amendment to other critical bills.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/24/AR2005052400938.html

[no_hypocrisy]

44. Bigger headline: House Defies DeLay on Stem Cells

[Erika]

45. The Republican House of Cards

The far right wing is losing power big time and Bush has already lost power.

[burrowowl]

46. If he vetoes

unless a 2/3's majority overrides the veto: IT DOESN'T MEAN DIPSH*T!

[Erika]

49. Yes, it does,

It shows Bush is not in touch with the mainstream and is a detriment in 2006 elections. For God's sake, Nancy Reagan and Dana Reeves were for this bill.

[Erika]

50. Nightline is doing an article

on how our scientists have relocated abroad.

[insane_cratic_gal]

54. We need to neuter Dobson

and the Religious Right. Show regular joe America the extremist lengths they are taking to Hijack and destroy the constitution.

They need to be targeted, groups identified and the worst of them publicly decimated. That is what they do with leftist groups.

[Ysolde]

55. I totally agree.

But how when we don't control any media except the Internet?