Kerry Signs Form SF-180

[Roland99]

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2005/05/24/kerry_signs_form_180.html

The Boston Globe reports Sen. John Kerry has signed Form SF 180, allowing the release of his military records. The problem is -- in all too familiar Kerry fashion -- he hasn't actually sent it to the Navy yet. A spokesman said the form will be sent "in the next few days."

For those just tuning in, Kerry first said he would sign Form 180 when pressed by Tim Russert during a Jan. 30 appearance on Meet the Press. Trey Jackson has the video.

[aden_nak]

1. At least Kerry's won't be destroyed in fires and then later re-appear.

[blm]

2. Hmm...maybe this is the start of the legal war against the Swift liars.

.

[saltpoint]

3. When Dubya lays his Guard record out for all to see, we can open --

-- fire on Kerry.

Kerry showed up for his service.

Dubya didn't.

That's the end of that story for me.

[babylonsister]

7. Me, too. Why is it so important to see Kerry's

records when our supposed CIC is immune from scrutiny?

[October]

21. Hear, hear!

[crispini]

4. Wow.

Well, why now, I wonder? Why not during the campaign to get all those Swift Liars to STFU?

[karynnj]

8. If you were Kerry, would you give this power to the Bush Sec of Navy

Kerry had about 140 pages of records on his campaign web site. They seemed to cover his entire service, unlike Bush's which had major gaps of time where specific records that should have been there weren't. In 1972, when Kerry ran for Congress, the Nixon administration ran a dirty tricks campaign against him. If there were any real problems with his record (in war, or fighting the war) they would have used them rather than creating false slurs. The Nixon tapes showed they were quite concerned with discrediting him.

Douglas Brinkley in researching Tour of Duty talked to many of the people who Kerry reported to and they didn't have a problem with his service then. They also sent him to be an aide to an admiral, which is a pretty strange thing to do if he were a problem. Tour of Duty was written by an historian and Kerry retained no control at all. This book's author should have been considered a knowledgeable neutral third party who could shed light on the accuracy of the SBVT and Kerry statements. (In fact, Brinkley came away so impressed by Kerry through his journals, interviews and what he found talking to other people who were with him, that his book was almost considered to be Kerry campaign literature by the press. His interviews do provide people's comments before it became a political thing.)

[crispini]

9. Yeah, so .... still, why NOW?

I don't get it. Still the same Sec of Navy. :shrug:

[karynnj]

20. No election vs Bush

and he is getting the file first and will be able to see what there and make sure there are no errors. The RW made a big deal about a typists error on one of his forms. From what I remember, it contained a list of his medals and the typist typed the "V" (for valor) that was on his bronze star on both the bronze and silver star. Apparently the silver star never has a V. So they were sure that this showed that Kerry had made changes or done something.

The other thing is that there is no election going on now. During the election even some intentional "errors" would have created havoc. Now Kerry would have time to deal with it.

Also, even if Kerry doesn't run for President, he probably would run for Senate again. The other reason might be that the MSM took up the call that he do WHAT NO PREVIOUS CANDIDATE ever did, which is to allow the media to get every piece of paper the military has on him. He may feel that his reputation was to some degree on the line - over things that should have been major assets.

[blm]

26. Kerry had his records open for 1 week for all legit journalists.

Kerry's problem was that most of the corporate media wasn't INTERESTED in discussing the truth. They were only concerned in protecting the storyline of the Swift liars as per their Rovian masters.

[karynnj]

32. I didn't know that - I wish that were better disseminated.

The media really has a lot to answer for.

[Darkhawk32]

39. Wow, I didn't know that. Any link to read up on that revelation? n/t

[blm]

42. Here's a bit from Aug20, 2004 ABC Note

The Los Angeles Times' news of day story is chock-full, including the Lockhart and Johnson hires, but our favorite is this three-graph tick tock. LINK

>>>>>
"Kerry reversed course Wednesday night after arriving in Boston from a campaign trip to Cincinnati. As his motorcade pulled up to his Beacon Hill townhouse, he asked senior adviser David Morehouse, communications director Stephanie Cutter and press secretary David Wade to come inside."

"With campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill on the phone, Kerry told his aides, 'I think it's time to go at this.'"

"Aides hired a delivery service to drive through the night from Washington, D.C., to Boston with thick, bound copies of Kerry's naval records to distribute to reporters traveling with the candidate."
>>>>>>>

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote_Aug2004.html

This is only an ABC Note excerpt from LA Times as they have it archived.

It's hard to get through google as there are thousands of antiKerry articles from the wingnuts that seem to pop up first on this subject.

[Yupster]

29. I figure it's got to be

so any discussion is held long before the next campaign and everything's old news by then.

It's good strategy, but even better would have been to have released it all a year before the last campaign started.

[MADem]

22. Timing--and a full look at the records to ensure nothing odd got inserted

If you think those archives are secure, or that those records are always a pinnacle of accuracy, think again. The poor bastards working there get paid in the dark--they are FILE CLERKS, GS=5-9, not fancy guardians with special skills, advanced degrees, or dramatic clearances. It would be all to easy to fuck with them if someone had a mind to...

He probably sent a staffer to have a look, and the record is in a friendly safe at the archives, awaiting receipt of the form. That's what I would do in his shoes.

As for the timing...by 2008, this is OLD news.

ON EDIT--And if the GOP candidate is McCAIN, it could get REALLY INTERESTING. Yes, McCain was a war hero, but he did NOT MAKE FLAG OFFICER, like his daddy and granddaddy before him. Why? I have a pretty good idea, and I would not be surprised if some of that information is in HIS fitness reports and affiliated documents that are contained within his records (nothing to do with his performance as a POW, mind you, but everything to do with his tenure post-Nam when he was at OLA).

[JI7]

5. this is so stupid

Kerry is already backed up by all the facts put out there. the same is not true of Bush. the reason people don't know it is because the media reports on Kerry in a way making it seem like it's just a matter of two sides to the story and let the people decide. they don't talk about how the facts back up Kerry.

with Bush they discuss it by bringing up Dan Rather and the issue of that document which couldn't be verified. never mind that the contents of that document are backed up by facts. they just report it in a way making it seem like there is no question regarding Bush's service.

Kerry can release whatever he wants but it will all come down to how and if it's reported. just like they made a huge thing out of demanding he release his records last year and when he did they didn't report how it backed up his side of the story.

[davidinalameda]

6. is he running for something

:shrug:

[zbdent]

10. Is he up for re-election in 06?

Maybe still holding out for 08 . . .

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. No he is up for reelection in 2008

[graywarrior]

11. Bet it's a lawsuit against Swifts

[74dodgedart]

12. I agree. If he wants to run again, he has to put an end to the Swifties

[davidinalameda]

13. and put an end to everyone who remembers how crappy

his campaign was

gee, that leaves, no one

[74dodgedart]

25. I said "run" not "win"

That's a different question..

[Toots]

31. I suppose Bush* had a great campaign

Kerry put on one of the best campaign I have ever witnessed yet you missed it. How did that occur? He was cheated IMHO

[librechik]

14. Your. Turn. Mister. Bush! n/t

[smartvoter]

15. Never happen. Can't run again. Read: He got away with it. nt

[daleo]

16. When will Bush release ALL his drunk-driving records

Shouldn't he have to prove that there was only one conviction? I mean, fair's fair.

[Debi]

17. Wonder what the 'spinners' will find in what's left of Kerry's unreleased

records.

Will it show that he slept in one day (Lazy)

Had a wrinkle in his uniform (Slovenly)

Didn't sign one form correctly (Inconsistent flip-flopper)

It doesn't matter what he does the Swifties will attack, attack, attack. :grr:

[Iowa]

19. He's still on the defensive...

Ultimately this is the result of Kerry's hand-wringing, wimpy, wishy-washy approach to the campaign. Kerry, a real war-hero, enabled an AWOL chicken-hawk like Bush to completely turn the tables on one of the biggest advantages Kerry had going for him. While Bush was out destroying Kerry's service reputation, Kerry was proclaiming that he "respects" Bush's service. And then he let a lightweight like Tim Russert have his way with him last January. We are in desperate need of a ruthless avenging angel - Kerry just doesn't have the passion to fight the good fight.

[MADem]

23. I disagree, this could be a preemtive strike against McCain

...who is starting to look strong as the 08 candidate to beat.

See my comments upthread!!!

[AlGore-08.com]

27. After pumping up McCain as a possible running mate in 2004?

I don't see this as a preemptive strike against McCain. I have no idea what this is, but a much more effective preemptive strike against McCain would be to set the fundies loose on him, something that Gingrich is already doing. Or dredge up some of legitimate scandals associated with McCain (Keating 5, anybody?).

But if Kerry's worried about McCain looking viable now, maybe he shouldn't have been working so hard to make him look so wonderful to independents in the last cycle, now should he?

[MADem]

30. By 08, the fundies may well be totally marginalized, and back in their

..little holes. A lot of fundies don't even LIKE to vote, the only reason they started is because they were given a place at the table, and made to understand that their CLOUT within the party depended upon their ability to get out the vote. Well, they've just had the shit dissed out of them, and they feel VERY, very betrayed. And as the economy goes to shit and priorities compete for funding, the faith-based well could run dry--then, they'll turn their backs, stay home, and not vote.

The nice thing, and the thing that makes this a bit easier, is not only are we sick to death of them, so are the moderates in the GOP. It's a nice development!

Let me tell you something about McCain--he was the POSTER BOY for bad behavior while he was at OLA. If he had not been a POW and an Admiral's kid, he would have been drummed out. He was abusive, tardy, shitfaced half the time, an absolute sleeparound, and in general, not a nice guy. A total asshole, to be blunt about it.

He cleaned up his act later, but it would not surprise me if some of his horseshit from that timeframe is reflected in his fitreps. He should have been a fast tracker and a shoe-in for flag rank...especially with his background and family bona fides. But his behavior put the handwriting on the wall.

Kerry wouldn't ask for McCain's SF180, he would stay on the high road...however, SURROGATES would, especially if the race got tight and down to the wire--bottom line, you want the WIN. It could be surrogates on the left, or maybe even on the right to try to knock him out of the primary.

You have to take a very long view when approaching a run for the Presidency, and it would not surprise me if the McCain factor is an element in all this.

There could be gold in them there hills (or fitreps), that's all I'm saying.

[AlGore-08.com]

34. From your mouth to God's ears on the GOP part of that

The fundies are too deeply entrenched all through the GOP to loose control of the party that quickly.

But as to your point on this being a preemptive strike... the vast majority of the voters just do not give a rat's behind what somebody did in the military twenty, forty or sixty years ago unless that's the only question under consideration. "Draft dodger" Bill Clinton won 1992 and 1996 against World War II vets who saw combat; Smirk's war record was not an issue in 2000 although Gore surrogates tried to get the media to cover it; and in 2004 "in a time of war" where being commander in chief was supposedly a major issue, Smirk still beat a highly decorated veteran of the war Smirk missed due to a previous commitment to party.

Even if military service was a guaranteed vote winner, Kerry's war record would still leave him vulnerable. Kerry's anti-war activism will still hack off the same people in 2008 that it hacked off in 2004, and his playing up both his combat experience and his anti-war activism combined with his vote to authorize the invasion of Iraq will leave him as open to the charge of being a political opportunist in 2008 as it did in 2004.

[MADem]

41. I have absolutely, completely, totally NO IDEA what is in

the McCain jacket. But if there are letters of reprimand, or adverse fitness reports in his post-POW record, when he was a senior officer, he is gonna have a helluva time explaining them away. That can't be termed 'youthful indiscretion' when you are a commander or a captain (0-5/6). We aren't talking MILITARY conduct, we are talking personal misbehavior, crudeness, abusiveness--the old "Crazy John" argument that they love to toss at Vietnam era servicemen, and him, in particular, will grow new legs. And I am NOT referring to anything that happened in the Hilton (Hanoi, not DC). No one is going to fault him for anything that happened there. He could have left, because his daddy was a theater commander and they offered to let him go on a trade, and he refused. I am referring specifically to his time AFTER that, specifically, when he was at Office of Legislative Affairs.

The people who don't like him will press for him to release his records, too, and if he doesn't, they will harp on him. The speculation will become worse than the reality.

For Kerry, the worst is over. The Swift shits can rehash all they want, the people who are desperate to believe those lies will believe them, the ones who know it is horseshit already know it, and the ones who never cared one way or another will continue not to care. There's no news there.

[karynnj]

33. Kerry never offered him the VP, even per McCain

In the last few weeks, McCain has said this - I know on Stephenopolis's show and elsewhere. McCain apparently had also claimed that Bush was considering him. I have never read anything where KERRY himself said he wanted McCain. (Apparently they talked about whether a unity ticket was feasible to heal the country and concluded that it wouldn't work.

[AlGore-08.com]

36. Oh come on - - "they talked about a unity ticket" but not about running?

Which Republican other than McCain would Kerry have supposedly picked? Why, if McCain wasn't considering it, was McCain's name the only name that was leaked? And why would Kerry puff him up to the press, if he knew that a Kerry/McCain ticket would never happen? Any idiot would have known that Smirk would have McCain stump for him. And any idiot would know that puffing up a major surrogate for your opponent in a close election is a BAD thing. A VERY bad thing.

It was a trial balloon, pure and simple. They let it lose, it sunk rather than rose - - or McCain caved to GOP pressure and left Kerry in the lurch - - and now this is their CYA story: "we never discussed a Kerry/McCain ticket - - we only talked about a unity ticket".

[karynnj]

37. Not true

Kerry NEVER talked about McCain or anyone. Before picking Edwards, he specificly refused to talk about anyone. None of the talk about McCain to my knowledge came from Kerry or was leaked by Kerry. Kerry in fact claimed that other then no one other than one person helping him look into candidates knew anything - he didn't want a short list out in the media - maybe because he experienced being on Gore's.

I don't know where you get that he puffed McCain up. the only context I remember McCain being mentioned is when Kerry talked about the necessity of working with those on the other side of the aisle. I think a lot of what made the media this year was not accurate and coincidently, not in Kerry's favor.

[napi21]

24. Well, that's sure confirmation that he's gonna run again!

There's no othr reason for him to do this!

[AlGore-08.com]

28. There was some wire story today about Kerry's family wanting him to run

Those are the kinds of leaks candidates routinely give. I find that stronger evidence than this, but I've never had any doubts he was running again.

[Darkhawk32]

40. Good. He should. If everyone here thinks the election was stolen, then..

he has every damn right to run again. Go for it, John.

[newscott]

35. Russert must have bent his ear again last Friday when they

were both in attendence at Bruce Springsteen's show at the Orpheum Theatre in Boston. 5-20-05.

[blm]

38. Tim "whoreforfascists" Russert had no RIGHT to be at a Springsteen show.

I hate that BFEE tool.